Do you think bullying is a necessary evil? - What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

[UselessRubberKeyboard]

Nah, bullying is shitty. But bullying isn't taking the piss out of behaviour that's socially unacceptable, it's being a cunt to someone weaker than you to make yourself feel good.

The weirdo that eats glue in art class? Rip the piss out of the glue eating as much as you like. It's a stupid and dangerous thing to do.

The weirdo that dresses shitty and avoids everyone? Just let him be a weirdo. It's his job to get his ass in gear and start functioning, and his loss if he doesn't. What anti-bullying stuff seems to be encouraging nowadays is everyone being simperingly nice to the weirdo and trying to include him in everything. That's just rewarding the weirdo for being exceptional, and forcing everyone else to unwillingly be fake nice to someone they don't want to be around. It helps no-one.

A lot of what's classed as bullying nowadays isn't (not that I'm saying it doesn't happen and that people who genuinely bully aren't assholes for doing it). Humans need to work together to get shit done in life, and some amount of social functioning is essential for everyone. Behaviour that doesn't fit in or isn't acceptable is going to get noticed and commented on, right throughout life and not just during childhood. Trying to shield kids from any negative comments on how they act is not helpful. Supporting kids when some dickhead thinks it's funny to make someone miserable for the sake of it is fair enough, though, if only to teach them a thicker skin and laugh off genuine unfair criticism.

 

[Arcturus]

I'm sort of on the fence. More toward saying bullying isn't a good thing. The school and area can be big factors too. Often, bullies are really unhinged people. It doesn't help that people are getting crazier and more dedicated to making someone else's life hell. Social media has definitely made things worse. On top of that, in the US anyway, teachers are giving less and less of a shit. They're so burnt out and underpaid. And a lot of them blatantly hate kids.

A little power leveling here, but in 3rd and 4th grade I was bullied relentlessly. I was pretty poor growing up and the closest school was one that mostly rich kids went to. It was very obvious just from clothes that I didn't belong there. Some of the staff participated in the taunting as well. I was quiet and a straight a student but it didn't matter. I walked to and from school and would often get followed home and harassed. I already had a crappy home life and that just made it way worse. I'd beg my mom almost every morning to not make me go. In the end I wound up snapping and just beat the absolute shit out of some frail spoiled kids and then the principal had a long talk with me about how that made me a bully too and it wasn't very ladylike behavior at all. Lol.

On the other hand, sometimes it is earned. Sometimes people need to be checked. Learning to deal with confrontation is good too. However, it's also good to learn that you can't just go after people like that. That you need to keep some things to yourself and be professional. More often than not, bullies grow up and take their behavior with them. These people are awful to work with and be around. Then so are the weirdos that never got the point driven home that they need to stop being a fucking freak.

It's a tough one. I sort of feel like it's one of those things that there isn't really a completely right or wrong answer. In the end I think more parents need to step the fuck up and stop unleashing their damaged goods into the world unchecked. Teach your kid how to act around others.

 

[Genichiro]

It's not bullies that are necessary, it's conflict that's necessary.

Bullies are just the kids of utter garbage people who couldn't nurture and challenge their child, there's nothing normal about a troubled kid making other kids' lives miserable. Anyone here who ever bullied anyone knows damn well that they had issues. The only way bullying is an evolutionary trait is when the bullies end up antisocial alcoholics or spoiled whores.

Dealing with conflict prepares you for the real world, it prepares you to deal with a bully. Look at the news and tell me how much conflict or nipple-twisters these brats ever got.

This.

Though,bullying didn't do our Dobson much good. Made him from an already bad egg to a much balder egg.

 

[Ihavenohands]

you can grow a thicker skin in a positive environment, and grow positively from it. or you can grow one in a negative environment, and then dwell on that and act out in a negative manner.

I don't think it's true that you can grow a thicker skin in positive enviroment - as defined by enviroment when no one ever talks shit to you or criticizes you. Do you have any example of what you mean or perhaps you could define positive and negative enviroment?

 

[Kuchipatchi]

Bullies are important? No.
Picking on/challenging kids with abnormal behaviour? Yes.

You can correct a kid's behaviour without bullying them. If a kid too old for teddies bring one to school, don't bully them, just laugh at them and make them feel embarrassed. If the next day they didn't bring it, leave them alone. A bully would carry on picking on them until they find someone else to bully.

Be like Kiwifarms. Don't go out and bully, just laugh.

 

[qt farmer :)]

I don't think it's true that you can grow a thicker skin in positive enviroment because nothing challenges you in positive enviroment. Do you have any example of what you mean?

learning to defend yourself through a discipline like martial arts (positive) vs. learning to defend yourself out of necessity/anger without discipline via street fighting/delinquency (negative)

 

[33rd]

I think the crux of the debate here is the fact that the word "bullying" can describe a wide variety of behaviors. It can range from telling someone that they're being a faggot to legit sociopathic instances of cruelty. I've been on both sides and can't say I've personally seen it make a positive difference. My bullies only succeed in making me a lot meaner and the kids I bullied in turn lacked the self-awareness needed to gather anything from it. Sure, it toughened me up, but I did some shitty, regrettable things to people as a result.

This isn't to say that there isn't any merit to allowing conflict in schools (not allowing it would be way worse), I just think there's gotta be a better way to express it.

 

[Chin of Campbell]

I think the crux of the debate here is the fact that the word "bullying" can describe a wide variety of behaviors.

Yeah, this is my failing here. Bullying is such a nonspecific term and I didn't clarify the sort of conflict I feel is important to growth. Violence and actual harassment is never a good thing among children.

 

[goku_black]

bullying is essential for people to learn to stand up for themselves.

 

[pentylspacer2600]

amongst siblings but not out in the wild. i like my citizens harmonious.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

Yes, and no.

Bullying as long as it doesn't go so far can lead to deeper self reflection, lead people to groups they will socialize with, and in moderation at times can be a territorial conflict. (Those who stand up for themselves often get respected and tolerated, it's why new kids often in schools are some of the first targets when it comes to bullying: They are imposing on territory/outsiders. It's a mini form of tribalism in my opinion) It's also a good way to expose whether someone is a coward (intellectually, in regards to their friends, etc.) or going to be a pushover and thus falling into a circular loop of bullying. It can also lead to a personal space resolution when it comes to groups, or individuals especially within the school years. It can also balance risk vs. reward in certain activities and behaviors within the social spectrum. (Draw attention to yourself and you may pay the consequences unless you wish to learn to defend yourself.)

It can also be a way to keep people at bay or in line who are obstructive, or obtrusive.

In general I find it to be a true test of character, and even of bonds.

On the other hand:

No.

In the more extreme cases it can lead to violent retaliation, and even attempts to destroy people's lives. It can lead to dog piling, and can spiral at times way out of control.

Overall, I'd argue yes as long as it is kept in moderation, and doesn't lead to that spiral, but there's a fine line between extreme bullying and general bullying. Although some posters made mention of conflict, which I'd generally agree. I usually find that term to be very tame, and less tribal usually leading to basic arguments, or yelling matches.. Bullying to me is a little more adhere to "natural tendencies" or on base instinct behavior. (Why I mentioned tribalism to a decent extent.)

 

[Marco Fucko]

I think what's more important is not overselling a nerd's potential in society. Not everyone is destined to be in a scientific profession, let alone one of the key figures that makes (or takes credit for) a breakthrough. I think it's this contrast where kids that show a pinch higher book intelligence get set up for failure by adults by promising them a bright future, and then they get smug about that and it contrasts with getting picked on for being weird. Those two feelings intermix and they get a complex over the "normies" and it fucks up their social function even if they do turn out to be a theoretical physicist or a doctor or whatever.

TL;DR the bullies in my school never fucked with the science nerds that weren't self-important or particularly weird, it was always the lolcow in training that had a huge complex about how smart they supposedly were.

 

[RG 448]

If a kid too old for teddies bring one to school, don't bully them, just laugh at them and make them feel embarrassed.

Even that’s too presumptuous. What if that teddy is the only way that poor kid can smuggle in the product he sells? People used to tease me for bringing a teddy bear to school until it started pooping out eightballs during lunch break.

 

[Chexxchunk]

IIRC, there was some study that showed that bullying is good... for bullies. As in, they do better in life in followups. Also, it is bad for the bullied. As in, they had worse life outcomes.

Maybe Nietzsche was onto something with that whole Der Wille Zur Macht thing. If you're being bullied, the healthiest result is that you retaliate and win, like what happens in Back to the Future where Marty's dad turns into a Chad. But that can't happen in the zero tolerance school system we have today. So, it's just bad.

 

[Silent Observer]

Fuck no, bullying is not necessary. Meritocratic competition is entirely understandable, as well as schadenfraude at other's stupidity, but bullying is just unproductive sadism. The bullied victim is put at a disadvantage because they are subjected to overwhelming cruelty, and the bully is put at a disadvantage because by picking on somebody weaker than them, they show that they are unable to handle actual competitive challenge. As the old saying goes, "pick on somebody your own size".

 

[Damaged Goods]

This is so interesting to me. Where I'm from bullying isn't really tolerated. Of course the odd kids will be made fun of but nobody thinks straight up bullying is good for any of the parties involved or society as a whole. I don't really understand where the idea comes from that you can't teach children to stand up for themselves in any way other than through bullying.

Growing up I never witnessed any act of bullying and the worst I heard of was that at a friend's school some boys would kick a disabled kid's wheelchair whenever the teacher wasn't looking. Iirc the kid also had an intellectual disability, so he couldn't tell on them. In that case, or when it comes to bullying someone for being blind/deaf or whatever, I'm not really sure what the benefit is supposed to be. It's not like these kids can someday realize the error of their ways and just stop being disabled?

Kids are insensitive and often cruel but I don't see why that's a trait that should be encouraged or allowed to escalate to the point of bullying. It's not like it's either that or full-blown coddling and as it's been pointed out in several previous replies, it can crush your spirit just as much as it can build your character.

 

[Ashenthorn]

 

[rookie]

While bullying does make some people improve socially, others are less receptive to it and the ones who can't handle being called weird is where this victim mentality comes from. "I can't be a shitty person/do shitty things because I was bullied as a kid."

I think there should be a better system.

 

[Lydia of Whiterun]

It's not bullies that are necessary, it's conflict that's necessary.

Bullies are just the kids of utter garbage people who couldn't nurture and challenge their child, there's nothing normal about a troubled kid making other kids' lives miserable. Anyone here who ever bullied anyone knows damn well that they had issues. The only way bullying is an evolutionary trait is when the bullies end up antisocial alcoholics or spoiled whores.

Dealing with conflict prepares you for the real world, it prepares you to deal with a bully. Look at the news and tell me how much conflict or nipple-twisters these brats ever got.

I agree with your post. I think experiencing conflict and trials definitely helps shape stronger individuals but I also think a lot of people use this as an excuse for anti-social or personality disordered behavior.

It's also an excellent way of normalizing abuse.

In my opinion, people who put all of the onus on the bullied to deal with abuse are nothing more than apologists. It is not the bullied child's parents fault that another individual from a different family all together targets them. There may be elements in the bullied child's home that contribute to them being singled out (generally this is because of poverty, being "different", etc) but that doesn't negate the fact that the ultimate perpetrator is the bully.

Personally, I think we'd see a lot less of this nonsense if parents were held legally responsible for the actions of their children. People need to stop acting like this is some "That's just life shit." and start taking extreme shit (constant harassment, physical altercations, etc) to the courts. Consequences are also part of life.

 

[Clop]

I agree with your post. I think experiencing conflict and trials definitely helps shape stronger individuals but I also think a lot of people use this as an excuse for anti-social or personality disordered behavior.

It's also an excellent way of normalizing abuse.

In my opinion, people who put all of the onus on the bullied to deal with abuse are nothing more than apologists. It is not the bullied child's parents fault that another individual from a different family all together targets them. There may be elements in the bullied child's home that contribute to them being singled out (generally this is because of poverty, being "different", etc) but that doesn't negate the fact that the ultimate perpetrator is the bully.

Personally, I think we'd see a lot less of this nonsense if parents were held legally responsible for the actions of their children. People need to stop acting like this is some "That's just life shit." and start taking extreme shit (constant harassment, physical altercations, etc) to the courts. Consequences are also part of life.

Far as I know parents are held responsible for what an underaged kid does. People just get cold feet taking parents to court when they have every right to do so.

And fuck anyone who even thinks that bullying and abuse is "just life" - just tell your kid to take out the garbage once in a while and don't spoil them.