Does religion create better or worse countries?

[Slap47]

depends on the religion

Depends on the culture, economy and geography.

Christianity specifically creates better countries.

Islam is considered the problem in tons of places, why would you solve a problem with that same exact problem?

The 30 years war basically destroyed Europe and the overly bureaucratic Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches basically crippled their countries. They took upwards of 30% of the tax revenue and did nothing with it.

It really depends on the circumstances. Post-enlightenment Christianity both embraced and rejected stuff like eugenics and mass murder in the colonies. Islam in most places is crazy but in Canada,China, Russia and even the Balkans it is entirely chill.

The USA had (and still has) crazy Christianity but it has space for those crazies to go and not bother anybody. Britain had puritans taking over and enforcing ISIS tier laws on the country (ban music, veils, etc).

 

[Basil II]

>it's another ron /pol/ bait thread

Depends on the culture, economy and geography.





The 30 years war basically destroyed Europe and the overly bureaucratic Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches basically crippled their countries. They took upwards of 30% of the tax revenue and did nothing with it.

It really depends on the circumstances. Post-enlightenment Christianity both embraced and rejected stuff like eugenics and mass murder in the colonies. Islam in most places is crazy but in Canada,China, Russia and even the Balkans it is entirely chill.

The USA had (and still has) crazy Christianity but it has space for those crazies to go and not bother anybody. Britain had puritans taking over and enforcing ISIS tier laws on the country (ban music, veils, etc).

Imagine thinking the 30 years war was actually motivated by religion and wasn't just everyone in Europe trying to fuck Austria.

The reason Islam is chill in the Balkans and Russia is because of Tsar and Commies cucking it to hell and back. it can still get very allahu akbary in the border regions like chechnya.

 

[The best and greatest]

Wait a second, Ron, that's white nationalist talk right there.

Is it? I thought the white nationalist position is that America IS white and therefor we ought not allow more coloreds.

It's not a religion, but it's an active belief you have to hold. Atheism isn't shrugging your shoulders and not caring/not knowing, it's making a definitive statement and holding to it.

So what is "I have no logical reason to believe these statements are correct as written, so I don't believe it?" I suppose you could argue that this statement is an expression logical reasoning, but can that even be considered a "belief system"?

 

[HeyYou]

Is it? I thought the white nationalist position is that America IS white and therefor we ought not allow more coloreds.

The argument that America isn't white because we're mixed breed or mutts is absolutely a "white nationalist" argument, it's just that other countries tend to use it.

So what is "I have no logical reason to believe these statements are correct as written, so I don't believe it?" I suppose you could argue that this statement is an expression logical reasoning, but can that even be considered a "belief system"?

On the same level as Christians who are pretty relaxed about their faith. Meanwhile, people like Hitchens and New Atheism make atheism very much a belief system.

 

[Syaoran Li]

Eh, as much as I despise radical Islamist countries and the Evangelical Protestant fundies, I'd say that explicitly atheistic countries tend to be the worst, at least in the developed world.

A lot of the Islamic shitholes in Africa and the Middle East also have other external factors such as political instability and a poor economy, to say nothing of the Saudi royals going out of their way to push their own brand of Puritan Islam on these unstable regions. So, I'm not going to go into the problems with those countries, since they have a lot more pressing issues than religion.

But yeah, the worst countries in the developed world are often atheist.

Notice that I did not say secular, I explicitly said atheist.

Prime examples of "hard" atheist states would be the Soviet Union, North Korea, and the People's Republic of China and we all know how horrible those shitholes are (or were, in the case of the USSR)

Even "soft" atheist states that are de jure secular but de facto atheist are usually horrible shitholes as well and tend to be crippled by their own bullshit. Prime examples include Sweden, Germany, and on a regional level, the American West Coast.

Religion is an important part of human culture. A person can be an atheist individual and be perfectly functional, but people are herd animals and always seek a shepherd in the form of religion, whether it be Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, or the State (as seen in atheist countries)

For all the flaws in religion, at least there is a moral code and a sense of what is sacred.

A secular society that protects the rights of the religious without endorsing and enabling them works best, as seen with the United States. Granted, part of why the USA made that work is because we have a large amount of territory with a very large and culturally diverse population. Every once in a while, the pendulum swings one way or the other.

In the Reagan and Bush years, we had to deal with the Religious Right and an era of soft dominionism. Now we've swung the other way and are going through an era of soft state atheism, but the pendulum will swing back again. The form that it takes may change, but the American cultural zeitgeist always swings back and forth one way or the other.

When this country was founded, the Northeast was a Puritan theocracy that made the modern-day Bible Belt look like 2010's Portland while the South was the domain of college-educated middle class gentlemen that were often fixated on the Enlightenment. Then the American Civil War happened and it flipped the script.

Hell, just within living memory we went from the McCarthyism and conformist conservatism of the 1950's and early 1960's to the counterculture-driven New Left of the late 1960's and 1970's to the Religious Right of the 1980's, 1990's. and 2000's to the SJW's of today.

 

[RG 448]

It really depends on the circumstances. Post-enlightenment Christianity both embraced and rejected stuff like eugenics and mass murder in the colonies. Islam in most places is crazy but in Canada,China, Russia and even the Balkans it is entirely chill.

The USA had (and still has) crazy Christianity but it has space for those crazies to go and not bother anybody. Britain had puritans taking over and enforcing ISIS tier laws on the country (ban music, veils, etc).

Christianity is the one true faith though.

 

[The best and greatest]

The argument that America isn't white because we're mixed breed or mutts is absolutely a "white nationalist" argument, it's just that other countries tend to use it.


On the same level as Christians who are pretty relaxed about their faith. Meanwhile, people like Hitchens and New Atheism make atheism very much a belief system.

I don't think he said anything about interbreeding unless "White" is supposed to be a euphemism for "Pure-bred" but I don't think that was the case given the context of his statement and his general political sentiments.

 

[HeyYou]

I don't think he said anything about interbreeding unless "White" is supposed to be a euphemism for "Pure-bred" but I don't think that was the case given the context of his statement and his general political sentiments.

First, Ron's a troll, even if he's serious about a few of his beliefs. Second, considering the context was me flippantly asking if he was baiting for people to point out that his examples of success in the US were overwhelmingly white, and he responded that Americans aren't white, it was a pretty clear le 56% joke.

 

[Hellbound Hellhound]

Prime examples of "hard" atheist states would be the Soviet Union, North Korea, and the People's Republic of China and we all know how horrible those shitholes are (or were, in the case of the USSR)

The only real motivation those "hard atheist" states had for persecuting religion was because they saw it as a direct challenge to the dogma they wished to replace it with (namely: Stalinism, Juche, and Maoism, respectively). I really don't think it's accurate to say that a lack of religion was the problem, the real problem was that they were merely replacing one dogma with another far more radical one.

This goes back to what I said a couple of pages ago: it's not religion specifically that makes a society worse, it's any form of dogma. Once a society is pervaded by an ideology which no one is allowed to question, that society is invariably going to suffer for it.

Even "soft" atheist states that are de jure secular but de facto atheist are usually horrible shitholes as well and tend to be crippled by their own bullshit. Prime examples include Sweden, Germany, and on a regional level, the American West Coast.

I think those societies have their own problems which have nothing to do with religion.

Sweden, for instance, has historically been very isolated, which has encouraged a very altruistic culture among the Swedes. Obviously, this altruism has been misplaced in recent years, but Sweden is still overall a very functional society, and boasts some of the highest reported levels of happiness in the world.

Germany is a country which is still largely reeling from it's history, a fact which has caused them on many occasions to overcorrect, and adopt policies which are clearly imprudent (like allowing the mass migration of culturally dissimilar refugees that obviously weren't properly vetted). Overall though, Germany is really not a bad place to live, and from all of the people I know who've visited, I've heard nothing but good things.

As for California, California's problems are mostly the result of it's high living costs, which are exacerbated by the fact that it has a totally porous border with the other 49 US states, and one of the largest economies in the world. Money being no object though, it's still way better to be in California than the Bible belt. It's not even close.

 

[The best and greatest]

First, Ron's a troll, even if he's serious about a few of his beliefs. Second, considering the context was me flippantly asking if he was baiting for people to point out that his examples of success in the US were overwhelmingly white, and he responded that Americans aren't white, it was a pretty clear le 56% joke.

Fair enough.

 

[Slap47]

>it's another ron /pol/ bait thread


Imagine thinking the 30 years war was actually motivated by religion and wasn't just everyone in Europe trying to fuck Austria.

Austria and Spain controlled the Papacy. Hell, one of those orgy having degenerates gifted Spain the entire western hemisphere.

The reason Islam is chill in the Balkans and Russia is because of Tsar and Commies cucking it to hell and back. it can still get very allahu akbary in the border regions like chechnya.

That is part of it but also the schools of Islam in these regions have always been especially liberal. Saudi has been exporting Wahhabi Islam into the region as of late and its caused chaos. Same thing is happening in the UK - Somalis who have historically had a moderate version of Islam are becoming radicalized by Saudi funded mosques and traveling extremists.

 

[Spatula]

The worse the country, the more religious the people become.
When nothing works, you want to seek help from a higher power.

Makes you wonder why muslim immigrants want to build mosques everywhere in England or France.

 

[Terrorist]

Look at christian vs atheist societies throughout history. Which would you rather live in? Checkmate atheists.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Humans are mostly hard wired to be religious. Even atheists nearly all have some kind of irrational faith in something. The question is meaningless since it requires a society populated mostly by creatures that don't reflect the human condition.

t. euphoric atheist that believes in FREEDUM

 

[Random_Person_Online]

I think even if a society chose something more orthodox like Theravada Buddhism, that society would be better off as a whole. I'm currently looking into converting to Catholicism for one, because I find that organized religion makes society a better place to begin with.

It's usually the dysfunctional religions and atheism/secular ideologies (such as paganism, humanism, atheist plus) bullshit that creates a load of degenerates in society.

Personal beliefs and philosophies like Epicureanism and even Ayn Rand philosophy may be good for the individual who has an IQ above 120, but for the masses, including the lower IQ people in society, I think would actually be better off if they became more dedicated to an organized religion such as Eastern Orthodoxy or Catholicism.

I'm not saying organized religion solves all our problems, but it does solve a great many of them and gets rid of the more stupid ideologies within and outside of religion as a whole. The more organized a religion is, and the more adherents it has within the society it occupates, the better off that society will be in the long run.

Religion encourages self discipline, self control, charity, personal growth, and societal growth.

I'm not saying you can't get those without religion, but for the masses (especially the ones with lower IQs/anxiety problems/depression issues) it actually improves their mental and physical well being instead of drugging themselves up with SSRIs, they actually learn to meditate either through prayer or traditional eastern meditation.

For certain individuals, they're actually better off being atheists. But for the mass majority of people, we're actually better off being religious as it provides us with a sense of community and belonging. It also provides us with a sense of purpose that in many cases, which is why so many atheists and non-religious people alike get sucked into the SJW nutjob crowds.

 

[Lurkio]

I mean, you could ask the same thing about technology. It's helped improve the quality of life in a lot of countries like the US, a good chunk of Europe, ect. but has also driven many places to be total shit holes, like certain area's in The Middle East or North Korea, the later officially being recognized as an Atheist state. I think the issue isn't with Religion, it how people use religion. I do believe, at its core, religions are meant to serve as a moral guide line for a person and give them faith in something greater then themselves or that thier actions have merit in the eyes of a power so great humans can't evven begin to understand it, which, hey, some people need, but it can be used to push masses towards immoral actions. Just like how science and technology is meant to improve quality of life and the average persons understanding of the world around them, but can also be used by people and governments to commit truly heinous acts.

Like may people in this thread have said, it depends more on the people using it and how it's handled then anything else.

 

[Morgenti]

i don't think religion changes a country in economic and death rates.

look at Brazil,although Brazil says that they are a laic State, roughly 64,6% % of their population is Catholic.
Brazil in 5 months of this year had 17 thousands homicides in records (july) that's a lot of dead people in just 5 months and we're still in september.
Brazil has also a great undevelopment in education matters, 11,3 millions of people (at the age above of 15) are uneducated,to take an example 750 millions of people are uneducated in the world.

which proves that religion it's not the main reason that countries grow their HDI constantly. rather one of the reasons that contributes to it.

religion CAN in fact change ideas and the man in general, basically if religion didn't exist we all could commit crimes beacuse "who would stop us?" "if we die we have no place to go,so why behave good if we are all just going to die?" that's why religion it's really important,and i belive that maybe tehre's a god watching us and basically getting disapointed in us by how we behave here in this world.

that's all.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

i don't think religion changes a country in economic and death rates.

look at Brazil,although Brazil says that they are a laic State, roughly 64,6% % of their population is Catholic.
Brazil in 5 months of this year had 17 thousands homicides in records (july) that's a lot of dead people in just 5 months and we're still in september.
Brazil has also a great undevelopment in education matters, 11,3 millions of people (at the age above of 15) are uneducated,to take an example 750 millions of people are uneducated in the world.

which proves that religion it's not the main reason that countries grow their HDI constantly. rather one of the reasons that contributes to it.

religion CAN in fact change ideas and the man in general, basically if religion didn't exist we all could commit crimes beacuse "who would stop us?" "if we die we have no place to go,so why behave good if we are all just going to die?" that's why religion it's really important,and i belive that maybe tehre's a god watching us and basically getting disapointed in us by how we behave here in this world.

that's all.

If you're seriously only not going around murdering people because you're afraid of hell there's something very wrong with you.

 

[Morgenti]

If you're seriously only not going around murdering people because you're afraid of hell there's something very wrong with you.

that's not what i meant, i will never kill someone beacuse "i can go to hell", what i'm actually saying is that some people would just not commit crimes against other people beacuse of hell. (yes,there are people that sick in our twisted world) that's why religion can in fact ''save'' us from these type of people, i'm sorry if i didn't express myself right and made my reply somehow from a sicko.

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

that's not what i meant, i will never kill someone beacuse "i can go to hell", what i'm actually saying is that some people would just not commit crimes against other people beacuse of hell. (yes,there are people that sick in our twisted world) that's why religion can in fact ''save'' us from these type of people, i'm sorry if i didn't express myself right and made my reply somehow from a sicko.

I'm skeptical there's that many of those people around.