Does the right really support free speech?

[Terrorist]

You'd save everyone a lot of time if you just posted this sound byte instead.

Big talk coming from Mr. West Virginia over here

 

[Syaoran Li]

Big talk coming from Mr. West Virginia over here

The difference between you and me is that I rightfully view redneck culture and (((traditionalist))) morality as a bad thing no different than Marxism or atheism.

You view it as some kind of platonic ideal to aspire to

Seriously, blue state suburbanite Zoomers who idolize "traditional morals" because of Crusader Kings II and their hatred of their liberal parents are like the right-wing version of the 1990's era wiggers who idolize inner-city jogger culture because of rap music or 2000's era weebs who idolize Japan because of anime.

 

[Lemmingwise]

The difference between you and me is that I rightfully view redneck culture and (((traditionalist))) morality as a bad thing no different than Marxism or atheism.

You view it as some kind of platonic ideal to aspire to

Seriously, blue state suburbanite Zoomers who idolize "traditional morals" because of Crusader Kings II and their hatred of their liberal parents are like the right-wing version of the 1990's era wiggers who idolize inner-city jogger culture because of rap music or 2000's era weebs who idolize Japan because of anime.

I don't think counterculture movements are that comparable to fan movements.

They may both be rooted in identity crises, but at least countercultures is trying to get away from it (even if they usually fail).

And CK2? Traditional morals? What are you smoking? Or have I missed some gamersperging?

On a different note, when talking to you before, I always get this idea of you having this image of a guns and bibles guy that has to be taken down. What about rednecks makes you seethe so much?

That came out a little more aggressive than I meant it; let me ask it in a better way: what is so bad about redneck culture that puts in on par with marxism, (which has led to tens of millions of death in country mismanagement and pogroms)?

What is the dislike or hatred founded on?

 

[Pointless Pedant]

I'm not @Syaoran Li and I certainly don't think rednecks are on par with commies, but I would suggest that he means that the unpopularity of the old evangelical right, along with the Iraq War and 2008 financial crash, led to the collapse of the neoconservative right in 2008 which led to the political culture we have now. Additionally, a lot of those people were creationists, and they came up with some really weird ideas. "Dinosaurs are a conspiracy theory" is on par with the 99 genders shit we have to deal with these days.

Watch this and you'll understand just why those people were mocked and hated so widely in their day. Bear in mind Joe Rogan is not remotely fond of modern PC culture either.

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

There are two big factions in the right wing: the conservitarian libertarian free market types like Dennis Pragur (Prager?) and the paternalistic religious social conservatives. Libertarians will "disagree with what you say but defend, to the death, your right to say it" while social conservatives are more like those gosh darn SJWs in terms of censorship, sort of.

I don't support free speech, liberal democracies and democratic values are wrong. Human rights don't exist and the autocratic boot of the state should step on people's necks when they get out of line, that's how human civilization functioned for 1000 years and when this era of peace ends there will be another 1000 years of autocracy. Free speech is doomed to fail regardless of whether you think it's good. If you never stop someone from spreading their ideas but at every time possible they stop you from spreading your ideas then eventually your ideas will be totally annihilated because they're not competitive. Those who use the tools of power win.

 

[Sage In All Fields]

Nobody except people who don't care about anything or have any real positions actually advocate for free speech. 'Free speech' is a dead end that just lends itself to debaunchery, degeneracy and psychosis. All free speech does is create a power vaccuum to be filled by people who care more about their views than you. Humans are not rational and the free market of ideas is nonsense. If you will defend to your death your enemies right to advocate your destruction, you are a person who has died in servitude of your enemies and there is little sadder than that.

 

[GhostButt]

No, they only care about it when they are the underdog, once they are back on top they will drift back to the old moral majority days.

So long as SOME of the left and SOME of the right stay caring about it maybe we can avoid the drift. Who knows.

 

[byuu]

It's easy being pro free speech if it's your speech that's being censored.
I don't trust any of those fucks that cry all day about Twitter to not censor shit they hate once they're in power again.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I don't think counterculture movements are that comparable to fan movements.

They may both be rooted in identity crises, but at least countercultures is trying to get away from it (even if they usually fail).

And CK2? Traditional morals? What are you smoking? Or have I missed some gamersperging?

On a different note, when talking to you before, I always get this idea of you having this image of a guns and bibles guy that has to be taken down. What about rednecks makes you seethe so much?

That came out a little more aggressive than I meant it; let me ask it in a better way: what is so bad about redneck culture that puts in on par with marxism, (which has led to tens of millions of death in country mismanagement and pogroms)?

What is the dislike or hatred founded on?

Part of it comes from growing up in a Bible Belt shithole part of the country and before @Terrorist starts to strawman me, I didn't have super-strict fundie parents who banned me from watching cartoons or playing vidya when I was a kid.

But most of it's because of the stuff that @Pointless Pedant mentioned and how the traditionalists and neocons more or less helped create the SJW's and their own brand of lunacy led directly into the Woke Left's insanity

Seeing blue state Zoomer /pol/ kiddies unironically advocate the return of the Religious Right (or a Catholic-flavored recolor of it) makes me go "WTF?" since that had a lot to do with how we got here, at least in the Unites States

 

[Pointless Pedant]

It's also going very hard against changes in society in ways that are pretty much insurmountable. Young white people of Northern European origin, as in the main demographic nationalist movements target, are the least religious demographic in the country. The most religious demographics are the black people and Hispanic immigrants they keep talking shit about. A religious right revival is practically impossible because the most pious people are on the wrong side of the nationalist issue. This also hurts Democrats too; if they bash on Christianity much they will bleed off their black and Hispanic votes to the GOP.

Either you go for a multi-racial faith based alliance or ethno-nationalism, but not both.

 

[Terrorist]

The difference between you and me is that I rightfully view redneck culture and (((traditionalist))) morality as a bad thing no different than Marxism or atheism.

You view it as some kind of platonic ideal to aspire to

Seriously, blue state suburbanite Zoomers who idolize "traditional morals" because of Crusader Kings II and their hatred of their liberal parents are like the right-wing version of the 1990's era wiggers who idolize inner-city jogger culture because of rap music or 2000's era weebs who idolize Japan because of anime.

I’m about your age and I don’t play vidya, nice strawman though. And aren’t you pretty much an atheist, too?

Part of it comes from growing up in a Bible Belt shithole part of the country and before @Terrorist starts to strawman me, I didn't have super-strict fundie parents who banned me from watching cartoons or playing vidya when I was a kid.

But most of it's because of the stuff that @Pointless Pedant mentioned and how the traditionalists and neocons more or less helped create the SJW's and their own brand of lunacy led directly into the Woke Left's insanity

Seeing blue state Zoomer /pol/ kiddies unironically advocate the return of the Religious Right (or a Catholic-flavored recolor of it) makes me go "WTF?" since that had a lot to do with how we got here, at least in the Unites States

If everything is a Hegelian cycle like you say, should I support the furthest left candidates possible to get the hardest right wing backlash possible?

I favor a return to traditional norms because of the dysfunction abandoning them has created. It’s a simple, direct cause-and-effect thing. Of course, no society will be perfect, but in my judgement it’s better to have these norms than not. Do you think abandoning our heritage in favor of multiculturalism, feminism, LGBT, etc. has led to something better than what came before?

....If not, what would your ideal society have to offer that’s better than both traditional ways and leftist modernity? Prove Me Wrong.

 

[Namerlane the 40th]

50/50 I shall say
50% are fine
50% are not so fine

 

[Anime Waifu NFT collector]

Remember when Trump wanted to criminalize burning the US flag? His voters loved it so there is your answer,if the right had the same power they had decades ago they would censor you ,these people don't care about free speech they only say they do because they are not the ones controlling speech since the Overton window is so far the the left.

Also as other have said before speech is a libertarian vs authoritarian issue not left vs right.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I’m about your age and I don’t play vidya, nice strawman though. And aren’t you pretty much an atheist, too?




If everything is a Hegelian cycle like you say, should I support the furthest left candidates possible to get the hardest right wing backlash possible?

I favor a return to traditional norms because of the dysfunction abandoning them has created. It’s a simple, direct cause-and-effect thing. Of course, no society will be perfect, but in my judgement it’s better to have these norms than not. Do you think abandoning our heritage in favor of multiculturalism, feminism, LGBT, etc. has led to something better than what came before?

....If not, what would your ideal society have to offer that’s better than both traditional ways and leftist modernity? Prove Me Wrong.

1. I'm not an atheist, first and foremost. Atheists are no better than traditionalists in my book.

The concept that there is no divinity of any kind is pure hubris on our part. We're not alone in the universe and we're not the biggest and baddest motherfuckers in it either. On a cosmic scale, humans are just big fish in a little pond,

2. You accusing me of strawmanning is a textbook example of throwing stones in glass houses. Also you not playing vidya despite being from the same generation as me is only providing further evidence of you being an edgy tryhard wannabe fundie.

It's fine to not be a total "gamer" but to not play video games at all whatsoever is kind of weird for a guy born after 1990. Like we're talking "uncanny valley" weird. I figured you'd be fine with playing video games on occasion or at least have no moral opposition to it.

3. If you do want a massive right-wing backlash, I unironically fully encourage you voting for radical leftists as a form of political accelerationism.

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

But most of it's because of the stuff that @Pointless Pedant mentioned and how the traditionalists and neocons more or less helped create the SJW's and their own brand of lunacy led directly into the Woke Left's insanity

Seeing blue state Zoomer /pol/ kiddies unironically advocate the return of the Religious Right (or a Catholic-flavored recolor of it) makes me go "WTF?" since that had a lot to do with how we got here, at least in the Unites States

The idea that the religious right helped the creation of the radical left is ludicrous. Cultural backlashes don't happen, the modern left was not a "backlash" against authouritarian conservatives. We know the reason why the left has gained prominence today, it's through peace and democracy.

Democracies will always, no matter what, turn into liberal anarcho tyrannies if they go without war for a long period of time. The modern left wing polity that exists today can only be achieved through the total absence of struggle. Conservatives are for maintaining the status quo, liberals want to move to the left and socdems want to move to the left faster. But where are the people that want to move to the right? reactionaries have been totally shut out of conversation and it's a product of our democracy.

You're a conservative, you want to maintain the status quo, but so long as we live in a democracy where reactionaries don't hold any positions of power and the left wing is prioritized over all other politics you will NEVER win anything. I know I said that half of the conservatives are from the religious right, but I was talking about voters. Here's the thing; neocons don't actually exist in the real world, they only exist in fantasy land Jew politics. Neocon are not popular at all with any segment of the population, so why are they in power? If half of the cons today are religious then where are they in the political establishment? Trump wanted to ban flag burning but his conservatard cabinet would never let him do it even though it was wildly popular with his base.

In order to solve today's problems I have 1 imperative: Make war

 

[AnimeGirlConnoisseur]

The difference between you and me is that I rightfully view redneck culture and (((traditionalist))) morality as a bad thing no different than Marxism or atheism.

You view it as some kind of platonic ideal to aspire to

Seriously, blue state suburbanite Zoomers who idolize "traditional morals" because of Crusader Kings II and their hatred of their liberal parents are like the right-wing version of the 1990's era wiggers who idolize inner-city jogger culture because of rap music or 2000's era weebs who idolize Japan because of anime.

I understand where you're coming from to some extent, but I don't exactly know exactly what you're referring to when you talk about 'redneck culture' and 'traditionalism'. I don't know much about 'redneck culture' outside of stereotypes and jokes on TV, but I'm willing to hear what you have to say about, since it sounds like you're speaking from experience. As for traditionalism, I don't know why you don't like it. Sure, it has some problems when you take it too far, but I think there is some value things like nuclear families, community, and organized religion.

As for the OP, I agree with what @Lemmingwise said. The OP is being really vague. I'm not entirely sure what 'the right' exactly means these days, but I believe that, out of the groups I can definitely say are on 'the right', there are some that support free speech and some that don't. Evangelicals don't support it. Neocons might say they support it, but I think a lot of these people would cave and start censoring shit as soon as it started to bother them. Right wing libertarians support it as much as it can be supported in a capitalist society.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I understand where you're coming from to some extent, but I don't exactly know exactly what you're referring to when you talk about 'redneck culture' and 'traditionalism'. I don't know much about 'redneck culture' outside of stereotypes and jokes on TV, but I'm willing to hear what you have to say about, since it sounds like you're speaking from experience. As for traditionalism, I don't know why you don't like it. Sure, it has some problems when you take it too far, but I think there is some value things like nuclear families, community, and organized religion.

As for the OP, I agree with what @Lemmingwise said. The OP is being really vague. I'm not entirely sure what 'the right' exactly means these days, but I believe that, out of the groups I can definitely say are on 'the right', there are some that support free speech and some that don't. Evangelicals don't support it. Neocons might say they support it, but I think a lot of these people would cave and start censoring shit as soon as it started to bother them. Right wing libertarians support it as much as it can be supported in a capitalist society.

I'm all for nuclear families and some kind of religious or community framework but whenever some /pol/ tard talks about "traditionalism", it's usually a euphemism for moral authoritarianism that's usually derived from extreme Christian fundamentalism or some Zoomer meme-tier ridiculous affectation thereof. Pretty much a de facto theocracy/moral authoritarian state.

A lot of the rednecks in the Bible Belt (especially within Appalachia) are basically puritan in their views and are the Protestant equivalent of the "based traditionalist Catholic ethno-state" that @Terrorist faps to the idea of.

Neocons supported the traditionalists and the Evangelical fundies for the same reason neoliberals back the Woke Left. They're useful idiots and help give the neocons/neolibs some semblance of moral authority.

"Traditionalism" is the right-wing equivalent of leftist beardos saying they "fucking love science"

 

[Samson Pumpkin Jr.]

I'm all for nuclear families and some kind of religious or community framework but whenever some /pol/ tard talks about "traditionalism", it's usually a euphemism for moral authoritarianism that's usually derived from extreme Christian fundamentalism or some Zoomer meme-tier ridiculous affectation thereof. Pretty much a de facto theocracy/moral authoritarian state.

I don't know about other people, but I want the state to legislate morality based on religion and nothing more. This has worked for 1000 years and under that system people were happy. If they weren't happy they wouldn't have had kids. What you're describing sounds like clerical fascism and I don't think anyone in this thread is a clerical fascist.

Neocons supported the traditionalists and the Evangelical fundies for the same reason neoliberals back the Woke Left.

Neocons are a bunch of establishment dogs. They don't take a moral position on anything except war with Iran, which they see as a fundamental good.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I don't know about other people, but I want the state to legislate morality based on religion and nothing more. This has worked for 1000 years and under that system people were happy. If they weren't happy they wouldn't have had kids. What you're describing sounds like clerical fascism and I don't think anyone in this thread is a clerical fascist.

Neocons are a bunch of establishment dogs. They don't take a moral position on anything except war with Iran, which they see as a fundamental good.

I can assure you people were not happy under a system that legislated morality based on a highly austere religion where the mere feelings of pleasure or joy are considered sinful and "degenerate".

They had kids because they needed free labor in a time before industrial machinery since the bulk of the population supported themselves via subsistence agriculture.

People were every bit as miserable under traditionalist morality as they are today, if not moreso.

You're dreaming of an idealized and ahistorical version of the past that only existed in Norman Rockwell paintings, Chick Tracts, and chivalric romances.

 

[Disc]

I don't think Republicans are more pro speech, but I doubt they have the confidence to assume they're gonna be in the winning position forever.