Does universal healthcare actually work somewhere?

[Mordecai "3 Finger" Brown]

A big problem with universal healthcare is mission creep.

No one can agree on precise definitions on what is "medically necessary".

Things also get very political with lots of activism regarding expansion of what is covered for boutique concerns.

Soon you end up with courts & politicians decreeing that Joe taxpayer legally has to pick up the bill for elective abortions, third holes being drilled in the perineum of troons abroad, medical emergencies for snowbirds hiding in the tropics for half the year, IVF treatments because having children "is a right", gender-affirming care for minors, having to pick up medical bills for people going abroad to jump queues, citizens of convenience showing up for care on demand, birth tourism, etc.

 

[Maurice Maine]

A big problem with universal healthcare is mission creep.

No one can agree on precise definitions on what is "medically necessary".

Things also get very political with lots of activism regarding expansion of what is covered for boutique concerns.

Soon you end up with courts & politicians decreeing that Joe taxpayer legally has to pick up the bill for elective abortions, third holes being driled in the perineum of troons abroad, medical emergencies for snowbirds hiding in the tropics for half the year, IVF treatments because having children "is a right", gender-affirming care for minors, having to pick up medical bills for people going abroad to jump queues, citizens of convenience showing up for care on demand, birth tourism, etc.

Well yeah but private healthcare literally gave us inhuman abominations such as plastic surgery freaks and troons

 

[Meriasek]

It's just that private health insurance isn't really a thing in Europe.

Sure it is, it's just an option for most. But if chosen it can get you some better benefits more often than not. Here in Germany at least we also got some doctors who exclusively see private patients, and while I thought preferential treatment of private patients is illegal, it seems to be still a thing. Also, civil servants who have the Beamter status (basically a sort of tenure for civil servants, one which many teachers and higher tier civil servants get) are basically excluded from the public insurance and have to get private insurance (they're also excluded from the regular pension fond and have their own special pensions).
I think with private insurance you have to pay stuff up front, and will get reimbursed by our insurance later. With public insurance you just have to pay some rather small contribution, something like 10 bucks for medication (if it's prescribed and covered by the insurance), 5 bucks for an ambulance ride, or 10 bucks for a fancy ankle brace and such.

You *have* to have some form of insurance. Either public or private, but you have to have one. If you're unemployed and get gibs, the state will pay for your public insurance, otherwise you have to pay the rates yourself (minimum rate is like 2xx euros per month, which sucks if you're unemployed without getting gibs, because you can't get out of that). For most people it'll just be directly deducted from your paycheck. I think most regular folks just stick with the public insurance, the private ones can get you fancier treatments, but it is also more expensive. Unless you need it, most people don't bother (unless they're verbeamtet and have to get it).
So far the coverage here is pretty good, and generally the services aren't bad. The biggest thing I had so far was an ACL reconstruction, where the MRI, the surgery, the braces, crutches, and physiotherapy cost me very little, all in all. On public insurance. I once spent a weekend in a hospital with severe backpain, and I went through don't know how many IV bags of pain meds, two hospitals including ambulance rides, even some morphine at the end, and I didn't even have my insurance card with me because my back got fucked at the gym and I had nothing with me. Paid like a total of five bucks later on, plus a taxi ride home (which was also partially covered). Physiotherapy was like 10 bucks a session afterwards.
Hospital service wasn't great, but it wasn't as terrible as some stories about public healthcare make them seem. Yeah, I was waiting in a hallway for hours at first, but I also wasn't critical and they did check by regularly to give me a new IV bag of painkillers.

But the system is under stress. More and more people using it, and fewer paying into it in a meaningful way. Result is that the rates are climbing for those who pay, and especially hospitals are under a lot of stress and chronically underfunded.

 

[Twat in a Hat]

LMAO it works literally everywhere, this is just your brain on America.

As another user posted, the UK's has undergone gradual enshittification over the past few decades. I'm no fan of this "assisted suicide" BS but at the very least it lets you die on your own fucking terms instead of because lolpoor.

 

[kim foxx]

Without being reliant on satisfied voluntarily paying customers, there is no incentive to actually do good work. And if the funding is through a coerced payment, such as taxes, you don't need to be efficient, customer-oriented, or even do anything of value at all.

americans would dig it the most actually. rich people have private clinics they go to that lets them skip the line for routine work. when there's something big ticket they need that would be extremely expensive (like open heart surgery) they immediately jump on the public system and get it done there. one simple trick!!

 

[BongoMongo]

Still better than the american system where a visit to the ER can cost you tens of thousands of dollars.

I would far rather spend those tens of thousands of pounds (and indeed, I do, pay for private healthcare) than put myself through the ritual humiliation which is the NHS, to the point where I will travel to a private A&E for minor injuries whihc need treatment straightaway.

The only way I am setting foot in an NHS A&E is if I am critically gravely sick, and I have insurance, and a statement of wishes and a plan to get me the hell out as soon as realistically possible, to a private healthcare setting.

The NHS is a complete and utter fuckshow and it needs completely torn down.

 

[Kankichi Ryotsu]

It doesn't work anywhere goy, keep paying for your insurance only to get denied at the company's convenience, otherwise it's literal Stalinism.

 

[Kyle Parson]

Just fix the retarded pricing model and bureaucracy that American healthcare has and we will be the best country in the world.

 

[Dawdler]

If it doesn't work anywhere, why people pay insurance on it ?

 

[Celso Bin Portiolli]

If it doesn't work anywhere, why people pay insurance on it ?

I'm talking about state funded hospital and health systems.

 

[Dawdler]

State funded plumbing, power, roads work fine ?

 

[Celso Bin Portiolli]

State funded plumbing, power, roads work fine ?

Citation needed.
In my country I can tell you it's not worth for shit.

 

[Dawdler]

Citation needed.
In my country I can tell you it's not worth for shit.

That's made on purpose

 

[Slap47]

I always thought Brazil had a specially shitty one, but Canadians and Brits seem to report months long wait times (the former with the added benefit of state sanctioned cost cutting suicide).

Discussion of MAID in Canada is generally focused around a few incidents of govt officials getting upset and recommending MAID to people who annoy them. The overwhelming majority of users of MAID are older people with cancer. The closest things to the government actually using MAID to remove people they consider a burden is a story of a man saying he would choose MAID over being homeless and Trudeau arguing that MAID should be applied to people with neurological conditions like depression and autism.

Canadian healthcare is very bizarre to judge as a whole because it is handled locally by the provinces. Some like BC, Ontario and Alberta have healthcare that rivals world leaders like Switzerland and France, while others have healthcare similar to wealthier developing countries. The differences are quite shocking. The good places will have a couple hour waits, while the shithole provinces will have 20+ hour waits.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

Pretty much every welfare program works if there is:
* A balanced educated population with a large middle class to fund it.
* The population doesn't abuse the welfare because it knows it's bad in the long term to keep lines short.
* Low government corruption so expenses and size are kept to a minimum so that it will remain efficient.

You had glimpse of this post ww2 but now you'd have a hard time finding a country in the west without even one of this.

The overwhelming majority of users of MAID are older people with cancer.

I have a feeling most of those older people could easily lived another decade without losing functionality.

 

[Inspector Rex]

* A balanced educated population with a large middle class to fund it.
* The population doesn't abuse the welfare because it knows it's bad in the long term to keep lines short.
* Low government corruption so expenses and size are kept to a minimum so that it will remain efficient.

None is true in Russia and Belarus but it works well in all of them. It's not without problems, sure, but the state won't let you die or go broke trying to get well.

However, it's worth pointing out that it works at expense of medical staff (especially low-tier, like nurses), whose salaries are usually not very far off from local average. I doubt that American doctors and insurance companies would allow something like that to happen.

 

[Zbk3VmLfujjzjxBd43tL]

It worked pretty well a few decades ago in Europe. Almost like not deciding to play world police, not inviting the third world into your country, not bloating the system with HR reps and diversity officers, and not saying every kid who is a little odd has ADHD or is a troon and needs a lifetime of pills and therapy and surgery goes a long way.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

None is true in Russia and Belarus but it works well in all of them. It's not without problems, sure, but the state won't let you die or go broke trying to get well.

However, it's worth pointing out that it works at expense of medical staff (especially low-tier, like nurses), whose salaries are usually not very far off from local average. I doubt that American doctors and insurance companies would allow something like that to happen.

What's the level of treatments over them (like does it have niche treatments/medicine or would waste millions on cancer patients)? Plus is it the same throughout the country or only in big cities?

 

[HOMO FOR LIFE RETURNS]

it works if your country isn't importing third-world trash.

 

[Inspector Rex]

What's the level of treatments over them (like does it have niche treatments/medicine or would waste millions on cancer patients)?

Yes, it does have niche treatments. Some things that provide QoL (e.g. prosthetics or eye impairment treatment) can be harder or outright impossible to get for free in a reasonable time period, though that differs from region to region and comes down to what your local ministry of health is prioritizing right now.

Plus is it the same throughout the country or only in big cities?

Obviously not, as you can't have every type of equipment and staff everywhere, especially in the countryside medical facilities can be lacking. But if the situation is serious, your doctor can send you anywhere to get treatment that isn't available locally.

Just to put things into perspective, healthcare is usually the first thing Russian immigrants start criticizing in Western Europe. Yes, it may be more technologically superior (especially in pharmacy, which became very apparent because of sanctions), but in terms of accessibility and coverage it's way worse.