DOOM

[Mister Fister]

Hot take but this was by far the gayest thing Eternal did. TDA doubly so. Like I get it but still, that's kinda gay but, hey.

Having a pistol is ingrained into Doom's DNA for me at this point.


These sound so familiar but I can't put my finger on it...

Quake and Hexen?

 

[ZMOT]

The reality if a game is in Game pass most people will just play it there, probably on PC since Xbox is so dead. Of course it's gonna cut into sales

thing is just being "free" doesn't mean people will suddenly play it, especially if there's a whole service offering a buffet.
which leads to no or outright bad word of mouth.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

The punching was nerfed to put focus on the blood punch mechanic. It would have been way too easy to charge if you could just 2-tap

Again, fucking illiterate, I meant TRIGGERING it. You can keep the charge up mechanic, just make it TRIGGERED by double tapping, and normal punching on SINGLE tapping. You can literally even have a BRIEF time freeze OR between the first and second press when you have it so people can't complain how "uuuuh, but I can't double tap fast enough to not get shot"

BUT INSTEAD, they made you NEVER WANT TO USE MELEE UNLESS ITS CHARGED.

Its SHIT game design, and you are refusing to even understand my point.

It is a gun gam

The only meaningful difference Between 2016 and eternal in making melee less effective is turning THAT damage to value to 1, so it wasn't brilliant balancing, it wasn't fine planning, it wasn't less melee (you have BP and dash which DOES do damage) they simply lowered damage because they were too stupid to figure out how to make players to NOT waste BP, which has like half a dozen possible solutions, like tap to punch for 30 damage, and double tap to blood punch. Its not complicated.

Do you actually genuinely not understand the concept of a "different videogame"?

Your logic is "if its a different game, fuck it, new judgment entirely". No, series have similarities, and changes SHOULD at least have a comprehensible reason to be made. And I'm pretty liberal with understanding them!! 3 being more spoopy and dark?? A OK!!!! I know WHY they do that, I know WHAT they are going for, but the CRUX of why I fucking hate this is the ENTIRE change is because they were too fucking stupid to make a way too choose between normal and blood punch, and so made the normal punch AS STUPID as possible. LITERALLY NO FUCKING OTHER REASON makes sense

I would UNIRONICALLY be happier if they LITERALLY FUCKING REMOVED the punch button, since its not even being removed, which is whatever, its like a tactic the game SPRAYS YOU WITH WATER like a fucking CAT for using. And I DO NOT like being treated like that as a gamer.

This is why they nerfed the melee. You are not supposed to be getting kills with it.

Then why does DASH do like 50 times the damage faggot?? ISN'T MELEE-SUPPOSED TO BE NERFED!? OH THEN THEY FUCKED UP DOING THAT!!!

Oh man, it was almost the exact same thing for me, except I didn't drop the game, I finished it and then uninstalled. For me the earliest rage-inducing event was right at the start of Eternal.

Thats the whole point. Social media popularized the concept of an "ick" which is generally something that someone gets thats an INSTANT 110% turn off, and yeah, I got that with doom eternal. Its like that "shes a 10 but" videos, except "its a 10 but punches do 1 damage for no other reason than the devs were too lazy to program a punch selector". But I also think its too fucking finely tuned elsewhere from the sound of it from what you say, and what I mean by that is that its practically DICTATING how you will play. you WILL chainsaw every dozen kills for ammo, you WILL fatality people for resources, you WILL grenade caco mouths, you WILL use your flame belch and nades, ect. I DO NOT like when a game is super heavy handed saying I MUST play a certain way, which is much different than being UNIDEAL. tyson runs in doom 1 are unideal, but possible. tyson runs in doom eternal would take DAYS, JUST because whittling down that much heath would take that long.

I normally hate rick and morty but this scene I've seen feels exactly like how doom eternal "NUDGES YOU" to play a certain way and NOT use melee at the start

Spoiler: Morty clip

Hot take but this was by far the gayest thing Eternal did

Gayer is that this is a COPE reason. They literally removed it because they couldn't fucking map controls, its why you DID have dash later as a damage source of decent damage, but COULDN'T do the same with punching (or combining together for a reasonably higher damage lunge punch)

So its not EVEN removed being able to have last ditch attacks, its way dumber than that.

But yeah, the whole ammo scarcity and ammo juggling would of been better off as its own mode in general. I don't think its bad or even not ever fun, but even doom1 had a code line to double ammo for certain difficulties and stuff.

But yeah the immense homosexuals who DEFEND it as a "100% necessary change for balancing" are infinitely more gay and retarded than the devs. As lazy as it was, I'm sure if you had a beer with a dev they would admit "yeah look, we just didn't fucking know how to prevent people from wasting BP on mooks, the controls were already insane, and we were sleep deprived, so we put it to 1 damage and called it a day". Thats gross but...almost understandable. But Faggots who legit INSIST it was a masterclass in game design which you "are too autistic to comprehend why a punch NEEDED to do 1 damage" are far more infuriating, as it comes of across like culty dick riding.

 

[hobbert]

NERFED INTO THE FUCKING GROUND

I can't stand chess because the starting pawns only move forward, WHAT THE FUCK???

WHY THE FUCK DO YOU ONLY UNLOCK THE QUEEN AROUND TURN 5???? WHY NERF THE REGULAR PAWN INTO A USELESS NIGGER SLAVES???? WHY DO I HAVE TO BASICALLY WIN THE GAME TO GET THE GOOD UNITS IN CHECKERS AAAAH!!!

god forbid a game has rules and mechanics.

It's incredibly experimental but disjointed here

I legit think the problem is that its too easy, if you don't really dig the melee system, you can just ignore it. You get ammo from every purple enemy killed, purposely engaging in melee outside of that is almost exclusively for style points.
Also its really clear that the budget and effort went out the window for the last couple levels, which is probably why the reception for the lovecraft stuff is so midling. By the second lovecraft level (~last 5 levels of the game) the skybox is just grey fog, and the levels get really "gamey", which clashes with the first half of the game. I like the asthetic and all the trippy secrets in them, but its clearly a downgrade from what came before.

Also the last hell level legit feels recycled; theres 2 hell levels and it feels like they are supposed to be played back to back, but something got fucked in the script. For the last level it doesn't really have anything remotely interesting besides the crucified titans you see in all the hell levels.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

god forbid a game has rules and mechanics.

If the rule is "punch does 1 damage because we were too fucking retarded to figure out how to let you switch between normal and blood punch so retarded niggers never use punch otherwise and waste it like dipshits and blame us", YES, I WILL blame the game for it. Fucking LEFT FOR DEAD still let you kill a special infected in under 10 shoves.

It wasn't NERFED INTO THE GROUND because "ahh, good game design, we are making ammo far more important" BECAUSE DASH ATTACKS EXIST. Its purely done for a dev to basically say "HEY DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE I SAID SO"

 

[Midnight Cooking]

Again, fucking illiterate, I meant TRIGGERING it.

That's not what I was saying, you angry chimp. My point was that it would become too easy to charge if you could just double tap every fodder zombie like you could in 2016.

they made you NEVER WANT TO USE MELEE UNLESS ITS CHARGED.

No shit, that's the point of it.

 

[hobbert]

If the rule is "punch does 1 damage because we were too fucking retarded to figure out how to let you switch between normal and blood punch so retarded niggers never use punch otherwise and waste it like dipshits and blame us", YES, I WILL blame the game for it. Fucking LEFT FOR DEAD still let you kill a special infected in under 10 shoves.

It wasn't NERFED INTO THE GROUND because "ahh, good game design, we are making ammo far more important" BECAUSE DASH ATTACKS EXIST. Its purely done for a dev to basically say "HEY DON'T DO THAT BECAUSE I SAID SO"

Dash attack is on the dash cooldown, and is used for stun. Melee in eternal does something completely different, they didn't want the powerful melee strike of 2016 on command. They didn't want you doing anything remotely similar to melee in 2016. Honestly, they should have removed the punch entirely until you get blood punch, the only downside being that you can't do cool animation cancels

 

[Hooked on phobics]

My point was that it would become too easy to charge if you could just double tap every fodder zombie like you could in 2016.

Then reduce the charge from fodder zombies specifically.

FFS you act like this is SOME INDECIPHERABLE puzzle from Atlantis or some shit. This isn't fucking hard. And if thats SUCH A PROBLEM, why isn't it a problem if I use a handful of machine gun bullets to do the EXACT same thing????

No shit, that's the point of it.

its a retarded faggot point is what it is. Even 10 damage would of been enough to dissuade most people but not be near IMPOSSIBLE to use, 10 punches to kill an imp.

But they wanted it so bad that NOBODY would EVER use it for kicks

Dash attack is on the dash cooldown, and is used for stun.

it also does a flat 50 fucking damage every time, and its "cooldown" is NOT that significant. So you DO have the reusable and infinite damage without ammo at respectable damage, just NOT on fists, because incompetent devs.

powerful melee strike of 2016 on command

The one JUST AS POWERFUL as the dash??? Seems you could argue the fact that dash is actually STRONGER than melee, since its same damage outpot AND dashes to avoid strikes during / higher speed. in melee only fight, 2016 doom guy would win IF eternal guy had no dash, but once eternal got a dash, I'd want to say eternal OBJECTIVELY has an upperhand.

Honestly, they should have removed the punch entirely until you get blood punch

AGREED. I would of been disappointed, but nowhere as MUCH as the immersion absolutely crumbling due to "BECAUSE VIDEO GAME" logic. OR, they could of made blood punch a double tap activation (which still needs the charge, since retards can't read)

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Your logic is "if its a different game, fuck it, new judgment entirely". No, series have similarities, and changes SHOULD at least have a comprehensible reason to be made.

Why isn't it a problem if I use a handful of machine gun bullets to do the EXACT same thing????

The comprehensible reason has been explained to you. The new game is re-balanced around weapon juggling and ammo management so the player is not supposed to have an easy way to take out fodder without taking into consideration the resources expended. Its the same reason the handgun was removed and its what makes fodder an actual threat.

Those handful of machine gun bullets could have been gone elsewhere, maybe to snipe an arachnotron or a maykr drone or something.

Choosing to waste ammo on fodder vs heavier enemies vs softening up fodder for heals is part of the gameplay loop.

It is legitimately surreal that 3 people have to sit and explain to you the concept that different videogames have different rules and different mechanics and somehow you still don't get it.

Like imagine if someone was throwing a shitfit because the pieces in checkers don't behave like the pieces in chess and 3 people having to sit them down and explain to them that checkers and chess are different games.

it also does a flat 50 fucking damage every time, and its "cooldown" is NOT that significant.

If you're wasting the dash to damage zombies instead of to stay alive you have far bigger problem than no melee.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

The comprehensible reason has been explained to you. The new game is re-balanced around weapon juggling and ammo management so the player is not supposed to have an easy way to take out fodder without taking into consideration the resources expended.

Then lets turn this around. WHY is it excusable they left the dash attack doing 50 damage?! This OBVIOUSLY breaks the meta, any asshole can just dash an enemy a few times as a get out of jail free card, it TOTALLY breaks the flow and makes not managing ammo entirely pointless if you can just tackle half health imps!!

If you're wasting the dash to damage zombies instead of to stay alive you have far bigger problem than no melee.

Not really, you can easily dodge a singular imp JUST fine without any dashes, or even dash in ONCE to attack, then dash back OUT to dodge. You aren't even answering the base issue which is that you INSISTED that fists NEEDED to do 1 damage or else balance would be CATASTROPHICALLY broken and the communists would win, but also completely fucking ignore that dash literally can do everything I would want the punch to do, AND MORE, and the stuff about "BUT YOU ARE USING IT WRONG" already applies to fists. YES, if I spend my time running up to an imp, I'm OBJECTIVELY going to have a harder time than just shooting him with buckshot, but thats not the fucking point.

The point is, you SAY melee has to be limited for balance or else it will break. I POINT OUT how dash is unlimited melee, and then you completely forget the point about "limited for balance".

I swear people trying to JUSTIFY it are worse than the devs, a single "yeah, its kinda gay, oh well, still an ok game" would be fine, but people gotta INSIST its totally the best way to do it, when their logic can't even stay consistent.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Then lets turn this around. WHY is it excusable they left the dash attack doing 50 damage?! This OBVIOUSLY breaks the meta, any asshole can just dash an enemy a few times as a get out of jail free card, it TOTALLY breaks the flow and makes not managing ammo entirely pointless if you can just tackle half health imps!!


The point is, you SAY melee has to be limited for balance or else it will break. I POINT OUT how dash is unlimited melee, and then you completely forget the point about "limited for balance".

Not really, you can easily dodge a singular imp JUST fine without any dashes, or even dash in ONCE to attack, then dash back OUT to dodge

Because the dash is your primary survival tool with a cooldown and wasting it to kill zombies expends significantly more resources than it saves as it removes your ability to evade fire from actually dangerous enemies and reposition while also putting you into a massively disadvantageous position as you're in the middle of the battlefield with no cover and no dashes.

I swear Its like I'm talking to someone who has never played a videogame before in their entire life and has no frame of reference for stuff like resource management, cooldowns and positioning.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

Because the dash is your primary survival tool with a cooldown and wasting it to kill zombies expends significantly more resources than it saves as it removes your ability to evade fire from actually dangerous enemies and reposition while also putting you into a massively disadvantageous position as you're in the middle of the battlefield with no cover and no dashes.

Ok, then by your logic, movement over time is a limited resource and wasting it moving up to monsters to punch them expends significantly more resources than it saves as it removes your ability to keep away from damage from actually dangerous enemies and be safely far away from projectile monsters while also putting you into a massively disadvantageous position as you're in the middle of the battlefield with no cover wasting precious time that could be used shooting, sawing people, dashing them to death, grenading them, or just running to save hp.

Am I doing it right?

no frame of reference for stuff like resource management, cooldowns and positioning.

I'm basically flat out saying resource management for dashes is BASICALLY non existent. it recharges fast AF, so even saying "NO IT DOESN'T COUNT BECAUSE IT TAKES 1 WHOLE SECOND TO GET 2 DASHES BACK MAKES IT BALANCED AND HEKKING VALID" is fucking retarded. If you care THAT MUCH about micro losses in game "resources", then punching is OBJECTIVELY FUCKING WORSE than dashing for attacks even IF it did 50 damage BECAUSE you lose so much more extra time walking up to them. And dashes aren't SAVED, if you aren't using them they aren't used so "wasting" dashes is stupid. The only "waste" is if you kill someone and THEN get hit. If you didn't you OBJECTIVELY wasted nothing, you USED it on damage.

And you keep attacking resource management ability and other shit when thats NOT it, I'm not gonna dox myself but I've played plenty of resource management games JUST fine, both slow and methodical, and more quick paced : its not that I "can't do it", I just dislike how fucking arbitrary that is. The fact I"M ABLE to use sprints to do basically what fist WOULD and SHOULD do entirely tears apart your point about resource management, and the fact that I'd even WANT to do that FOR KICKS shows its not about "OH GOD NO AMMO WHAT NOW" its "why the FUCK can't I beat an imp to death to drive a point home how bad I beat them?"

OR FUCK if you insist the cooldown is the X factor here, put one on punches, bingo bango fucking fixed. But no thats not good enough for you for some reason I bet.

I feel like this is something worth looking at for this too : a dude voluntarily did a run in eternal with NO GUNS at all, and it was possible. And the worst part was literally any combat before you get a grenade BECAUSE you have to punch zombies 100 times to kill them. After he gets nades, and especially dash, its just a shit ton of kiting, and MUCH less tedious. Not even easier, just less TEDIOUS .

I don't think having the fist do a PALTRY 50 damage would of made that challenge THAT much easier

 

[hobbert]

holy shit dude, you're too autistic to breathe, let alone argue about vidya on the internet

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

I can't tell if The Dark Ages is my favorite of the nu-DooM trilogy or the most boring disappointment I've purchased in recent memory. It's a weird feeling.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Am I doing it right?


OR FUCK if you insist the cooldown is the X factor here, put one on punches, bingo bango fucking fixed. But no thats not good enough for you for some reason I bet.

The fact I"M ABLE to use sprints to do basically what fist WOULD and SHOULD do entirely tears apart your point about resource management,

Walking doesn't have a cooldown, dashing does. This has been explained to you over a dozen times by now.

Dash management is one of the primary skills that tends to get people killed. Yes it has a short cooldown, that short cooldown is also enough to get you killed which is why it exists. That is called "game design."

You're not supposed to have free damage that costs nothing. Dashes are not free damage that cost nothing. Dashes and their cooldown are a resource that you are supposed to manage like you would ammo.

I'm afraid to even bring up the concept of an opportunity cost because you already struggle comprehending what a cooldown is and I'm afraid it might melt your brain.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

Dash management is one of the primary skills that tends to get people killed. Yes it has a short cooldown, that short cooldown is also enough to get you killed which is why it exists. That is called "game design."

OK. So I'm asking this JUST to see if you believe this is "balanced". Would you think that NORMAL PUNCH, consuming a DASH, and doing 100 damage, would be balanced? SAME crap with "cooldown" and you by your OWN METRIC would trade mobility for damage more than dash itself, which is mobility AND damage.

WOULD YOU, find this """broken""??

as for why 100 damage, because it would make it more viable to JUST dashing which would be basically identical otherwise.

I'm afraid to even bring up the concept of an opportunity cost

Funny you say that, because even in the example I'm presenting, it has IMMENSE opportunity cost, a dash down if you just walk up and punch, or you could DASH and punch for a "whopping" 150 damage, but now you have no dash and will "surely die" right? Seems a pretty high opportunity cost. But fuck it. That good for you?

We will ALSO assume dash won't charge mid fatality to prevent the "punch spam" bs, so tops you could fatality 2 in a row before cooldown fucked you.

THAT good enough for you?

 

[hobbert]

I can't tell if The Dark Ages is my favorite of the nu-DooM trilogy or the most boring disappointment I've purchased in recent memory. It's a weird feeling.

I've never seen someone so acurately describe what i'm feeling. Mood.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

I've never seen someone so acurately describe what i'm feeling. Mood.

I suppose the worst I can say about it is that maybe it was too experimental for its own good, which is a curse but also something to be commended.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

OK. So I'm asking this JUST to see if you believe this is "balanced".

I think its a bad idea because it discourages movement and slows down the game so I'd just cut it for messing with the combat pace.

We could develop the idea a bit more though, like instead of putting it on a cooldown shared with the dashes it could have its own resource counter so it doesn't interfere with movement.

We could have it slowly charge up by kills so its not unlimited. So like, an melee attack charged up by blood. We could call it... a blood punch.

 

[Patrick Bait-man]

We get it @Hooked on phobics, you like fisting; but can you please keep your deviancy contained within the LGBTQiwis thread, please? I don't want to read another post about your adventures of ripping and tearing hobo assholes behind your local Arby's.

Thank you.