DOOM

[Hooked on phobics]

If only yall put as much effort into using a few dozen brain cells thinking about how retarded the game design is as you did into mocking me.

Though this is making me think that fans of eternal are generally shit, and not just on here, but everywhere, the fans will never NOT defend this tooth and nail as if you threatened their kids or some shit.

And all this because @Oilspill Battery wanted to drag up a nearly YEAR OLD fucking post that was buried to rehash it.

Fucking dickriders I swear.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

If only yall put as much effort into using a few dozen brain cells thinking about how retarded the game design is as you did into mocking me.

We don't have to put braincells into mocking you, you do 99% of the work for us.

 

[30+GameOvers]

I looked up a Civvie video just to see if this game is even worth my time. I got to say, I really like the look of the gameplay. Don't get me wrong, everything from the characters to the cutscenes to the story is still fucking garbage, but at least the gameplay actually looks like Doom this time around. It really should have just been a Quake reboot, but at least it plays a whole lot more like a classic FPS than Eternal did. My rig can't run this game, but if I ever upgrade, I'm sure I will find an excuse to play this one. Skipping all the cutscenes, of course, the story here is about as meaningless as in something like Serious Sam 2, and if you know that game you know how much of an insult that is.

If only yall put as much effort into using a few dozen brain cells thinking about how retarded the game design is as you did into mocking me.

Though this is making me think that fans of eternal are generally shit, and not just on here, but everywhere, the fans will never NOT defend this tooth and nail as if you threatened their kids or some shit.

And all this because @Oilspill Battery wanted to drag up a nearly YEAR OLD fucking post that was buried to rehash it.

Fucking dickriders I swear.

Did you get a womanly, TL;DR response from a nu-Doom fan as well? These "people" are on the same level as the troons plaguing the WAD community. Little wonder they got girl-boss Debora Wilson cutscenes in the game, they have to appeal to all the pussy juice drinkers that make up the modern DOOM audience now.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

Did you get a womanly, TL;DR response from a nu-Doom fan as well? These "people" are on the same level as the troons plaguing the WAD community. Little wonder they got girl-boss Debora Wilson cutscenes in the game now, they have to appeal to all the pussy juice drinkers that make up the modern DOOM audience now.

yeah, and the thing is, I even CONCEEDED its still a decent game, and has a lot of cool shit. I just didn't want to back down that 1 damage punch was stupid. Infact this shit was already talked about over a fucking year ago and it was no problem, but now a couple of them unearthed it and couldn't stand me slandering the grand design of eternal.

its funny because I even tried to compromise with "ok, taking the "it wouldn't be balanced" at face value, would this or THIS make it any better?" And the response is always "BUT BLOOD PUNCH". They LEGIT don't even wan't to CONSIDER any alteration of it whatsoever even as hypothetical.

I honestly feel its in weird place where 90% of it is a good product but those little things DO suck enough to make people insecure if its criticized because 100 punches to kill an imp IS pretty fucking retarded, but people want to defend the whole so they not only deflect it, but DEFEND and RATIONALIZE why an imp ABSOLUTELY NEEDS 100 punches to die, and how 50 punches for an imp would be ABSOLUTELY GAME BREAKING.

I feel like I had a friend do this with fallout76 when it was at its worst, defending because he SAW the cool aspects, and didn't want to admit the shit aspects. Admittedly 76 was infinitely worse quality, but same principle : you love it so you get angsty when flaws are aired out.

And I feel like that higher quality ALMOST makes it worse, if to some its pretty much their PERFECT golden game to someone which does everything perfect in their mind, except for 1 or 2 REALLY EGREGIOUS stupid things which you don't talk about because its SOOOO GOOD. Like I get it. Hell, maybe Jesus christ himself had the worst flatulence and that would be considered rude to say, but to be in outright denial of it is dumb. For me, I feel like those things make it MORE annoying than if it was a shit game. nobody expects good shit in a shit game, but a shit mechanic in a GREAT game is just.....ugh.... Its basically the epitome of the "shes a 10 but" meme.

Its one of those arguments which is particularly annoying because they won't even budge on a hypothetical, because a hypothetical would prove eternal is not perfect, and eternal MUST be perfect!!!

And I realize not ALL eternal fans are like that, probably many can admit "yeah, the 100 punch shit is GOOFY" (admittedly thats all I'd need to hear), but the people who insist it was masterful game design, and ANY different approach would be objectively worse just seems culty.

Doesn't help they resort to insults instead of trying to address my reasons 70% of the time, or others where the reasoning is inconsistent BS. Really surprised they didn't try calling me fat or something yet.

girl-boss Debora Wilson

had to look that up, but....

FFS its the "I"M YOUR DADDY NOW" bitch from suicide squad. DO NOT WANT

 

[Oilspill Battery]

They LEGIT don't even wan't to CONSIDER any alteration of it whatsoever even as hypothetical.


And I realize not ALL eternal fans are like that, probably many can admit "yeah, the 100 punch shit is GOOFY" (admittedly thats all I'd need to hear), but the people who insist it was masterful game design, and ANY different approach would be objectively worse just seems culty.

Have you considered that people aren't backing down because you're just completely 100% categorically wrong?

People aren't insecure or a cult, you're just a retard with a retarded complaint, and like any retard with a retarded complaint, you inrepret people calling you a retard with a retarded complaint as a grand conspiracy.

Maybe, there is no grand conspiracy. Maybe, consider you don't have a point. Maybe you're just a retard with a retarded complaint.

People refusing to compromise that the pawns in chess shouldn't move like the queen isn't people being stubborn or culty about chess, its just you being a retard and not understanding how chess works.

If someone shows up and says "CHESS IS STUPID, THE PAWNS DON'T MOVE LIKE THE QUEEN" the correct response is not to "compromise" with their complaint. Its tell them why that's fucking dumb.

Doesn't help they resort to insults instead of trying to address my reasons 70% of the time, or others where the reasoning is inconsistent BS.

People resort to insults because after explaining something to you 80 times in literally the simplest language imaginable you still somehow fail to grasp it and throw a tardout with every comment.

 

[Patrick Bait-man]

And I realize not ALL eternal fans are like that, probably many can admit "yeah, the 100 punch shit is GOOFY" (admittedly thats all I'd need to hear)

It is goofy, but you're also a goofy ass nigga for making 10 multi-paragraph posts seething about the DOOM Eternal punch while TYPING like THIS. You're the DOOM AUTISM Slayer.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

It is goofy, but you're also a goofy ass nigga for making 10 multi-paragraph posts seething about the DOOM Eternal punch while TYPING like THIS. You're the DOOM AUTISM Slayer.

This is what he meant when he said you're just resorting to namecalling, you know.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

-sperg-

I feel like this unironically represents this entire fucking argument tbh.
And the funny thing is I even think you guys would agree.

It is goofy

Thats literally all I wanted. I even originally said I'd probably go back to the game, it just REALLY fucking turned me off initially, not JUST because the punch, but because it felt a bad omen of FORCING me rather arbitrarily into certain playstyles, and not even organic way. Its way beyond just gently nudging you that melee is bad and should be discouraged, maybe with a overheat like l4d, or something, and putting it at the SMALLEST possible value of damage available and its FLAT OUT unnecessary to have it that low.

10 damage would still suit the goal just fine and be less of a joke. HAD it of been 10, I would of been a LITTLE grossed out, but not dropped it. "10 punches for a zombie?....shit..... I mean I guess I won't do that again but whatever". I would of killed a single zombie, shrugged and that would of been it but after I think getting 48 punches in and giving up, yeah, I felt disrespected by the game and not even for a laugh. REALLY, past 20 punches for the lowest mook, it wasn't JUST trying to dissuade use of fists for damage, it was just disrespectful

Similar shit happened with x-com 2, which I also dropped, might go back to that too, who knows, but I followed that FURTHER and ran into more infuriating dumb arbitrary shit. I don't mind challenge, but when something feels ENTIRELY arbitrary, yes, it pisses me off. For reference with x-com 2, I was on a mission, capturing something, and planning an escape. level lets you drop an extraction ship mid mission to bail. ME, trying to use my brain thinks "ok, let me drop the extraction ship right outside the front door and bounce ASAP". I plan it all, get everyone into position, do an action to secure my goal which ALSO alerts all security and....the fucking drop ship magically decides to move on the other side of the fucking building. Just because its scripted to go there when I grab it. And I can't prevent it, and it didn't tell me it would, and my entire plan was now utterly fucked. Because it was CODED to arbitrarily move. Why? because the game said fuck you. And thats a decent explanation of why I hate that shit. Theres not solid IN GAME REASONS why, its not REALLY even for a super core balance thing or core rules (its why the chess comparison is nonsense, obviously pawns move straight and attack diagonal, they always have) or expectations, and 10 damage a punch OR selecting where to place my dropship in either case wouldn't break balance at all it would just feel like I have OPTIONS, not even fantastical options, but options

And yeah honestly the eternal 48 punches gave me that vibe, and I NOPED the fuck out of that. Not because it was "hard" or "I didn't understand guns are the way to play", or any of that, because the game said 48 haymaker punches to an annorexic zombies face ISN'T enough to kill. And that felt way beyond "nudging me" to use my shotgun, it felt like the game MOCKING me for dare questioning its design. And I feel like that shit is like the evil brother of the "yellow paint" problem in games TBH.

Also I think you could put JUST as much blame on @Oilspill Battery , hes replied just as much about, and dug up this whole horse shit in the first place. Takes 2 to argue.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

but because it felt a bad omen of FORCING me rather arbitrarily into certain playstyles

Why the fuck is chess forcing me to only move pawns one square at a time? That's complete bullshit man, I want every pawn to act like a queen.

You are obsessed with the punch, that's why I think you're a retard.

I would of killed a single zombie, shrugged and that would of been it but after I think getting 48 punches in and giving up, yeah, I felt disrespected by the game and not even for a laugh. REALLY, past 20 punches for the lowest mook, it wasn't JUST trying to dissuade use of fists for damage, it was just disrespectful

Like, you're crying about being "disrespected" because you kept trying to kill enemies with a feature that isn't designed to kill enemies, how am I supposed think you aren't a retard?

You bash your head against the wall and then complain that the wall is badly designed because it didn't open. You're not supposed to break walls with your head you're supposed to use a sledgehammer. That's why the devs put the sledgehammer resting on the wall.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

You are obsessed

Are you too stupid to know what the word ARBITRARY means??? You really are fucking illiterate.
ar·bi·trar·y
/ˈärbəˌtrerē/
adjective
based on random choice or personal whim, rather than any reason or system.

Thats literally it. And why your chess comparison is fucking retarded nigger babble, bet you don't even know how to play chess. Chess HAS a system, a finely balanced one. And all its design choices are VERY FUCKING deliberate. The 1 damage on punch is only as deliberate as somebody CHOOSE to press the 1 key in the damage value as its the first to mind, not that they took 10 minutes debating what would be a GOOD damage number, which would perfectly suit the methods and metas of the game and everything it interacted with and could be compared to.

No, it was probably a few guys saying "hey, punching we think is too effective in our opinion in 2016, what should we do?"
"Fuck idk, make it lower"
"lower? 1 damage, ok".

This wasn't something which was BOTH pheasable to kill with, AND completely not ideal (10 damage would be more than enough to suit that I think) it was literally made AS LOW AS POSSIBLE. Their goal could of been achieved with 10, 15, 20, probably even 25 damage without being pants on head retarded, and STILL making it LESS effective

So you really ARE suggesting that yes, 2 damage, and 50 punches for an imp would be "gamebreaking". I really wanted to think you weren't that fucking dumb. That you can't grasp NUANCE of balance.

Shit im sorry, thats probably another word you don't know

nu·ance
/ˈno͞oˌäns/
noun
a subtle difference in or shade of meaning, expression, or sound.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

-snip-

You're obsessed with making the punch able to kill stuff when it has been explained to you for over 3 pages why the gameplay loop is designed around the punch not being able to kill stuff.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

designed around the punch not being able to kill stuff.

But I can fucking hump them to death with dash all fucking day.

BALANCED.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

But I can fucking hump them to death with dash all fucking day.

BALANCED.

Because as has been explained to you for over 3 pages, the dash has both a cooldown and an opportunity cost.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

Because as has been explained to you for over 3 pages, the dash has both a cooldown and an opportunity cost.

"BUT GUIS ITS SUPER HARD AND DIFFICULT TO WAIT 1 WHOLE SECOND TO GET ANOTHER 2DASHES, ITS WAY HARDER TO USE THIS SUPER FAST FAR REACH THINGY WITH I FRAMES AND 50 TIMES THE DAMAGE THAN IT WOULD EVER BE TO PUNCH A DEMON!!!"

 

[Oilspill Battery]

"BUT GUIS ITS SUPER HARD AND DIFFICULT TO WAIT 1 WHOLE SECOND TO GET ANOTHER 2DASHES, ITS WAY HARDER TO USE THIS SUPER FAST FAR REACH THINGY WITH I FRAMES AND 50 TIMES THE DAMAGE THAN IT WOULD EVER BE TO PUNCH A DEMON!!!"

Yes. The game is balanced around the current dash cooldown. Is the concept of games being balanced in a specific way foreign to you?

 

[Star Classic]

@Hooked on phobics
@Oilspill Battery

Both of you post footage of your gameplay on Eternal and we can discuss the winner of this spergfest with a poll.

 

[Hooked on phobics]

The game is balanced around the current dash cooldown. Is the concept of games being balanced in a specific way foreign to you?

So I frame having, super high speed, long distance going TACKLE IS fine because "it has a cool down", but the same thing for a fist with no I frames or mobility would be SOOO broken.

This is why I say you aren't consistent. You claim it MUST be 1 damage for fists and not a SINGLE DAMAGE MORE, but I frame having long distance instant transmission tackle doing 50 damage? It's cool bro it takes a second to recharge. Totally not at risk for breaking balance, but 10 damage punches?! Are you insane?!

@Hooked on phobics
@Oilspill Battery

Both of you post footage of your gameplay on Eternal and we can discuss the winner of this spergfest with a poll.

You expect me to redownload a game I dropped and haven't played in a year and be as good as a fanboy endlessly defending it?

 

[Oilspill Battery]

So I frame having, super high speed, long distance going TACKLE IS fine because "it has a cool down",

The game is literally balanced and designed around it from the ground up, do you genuinely not understand the concept of game design?

 

[Hooked on phobics]

The game is literally balanced and designed around it from the ground up

No, it's not, you say this because you think the design is infallible.

Explain what you think would be SO CATASTROPHIC about 10 damage punches. That STILL WOULD make punches unideal, would make spam bashing unviable, still force players to rely on guns for anything efficient, WITHOUT being so damn broken.

But doing 5x that with I frames is fine. You don't know dogshit about game design, you just worship it so much you assume ALL DESIGNS are gospel perfect implementation.

Hell, disprove me. Tell me a SINGLE THING you think isn't good about eternal. Just ONE con.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

"I CANT PUNCH THINGS NO MORE REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"

I love how people's arguments about Doom 16 vs Doom Eternal are always about "I CAN'T ABUSE THE THINGS FROM 16 THAT WERE OVERPOWERED AS FUCK"

One of the primary reasons that Dark Ages is a massive step back is because in Both it and 16 you never have to think about what weapon you are using. I could have easily spend the entirety of Dark Ages using the Combat Shotgun because it and the Super Shotty are overpowered (in Different ways) Once you get the combat loop down the entire game devolves into the exact same circle.

"Is it a super heavy miniboss?"
"If Yes"
"Parry in Melee and shove hammer up his ass"
"If no stay at range and bait demon surge to stun with lightning then charge and shove shotgun up his ass"

Hell, disprove me. Tell me a SINGLE THING you think isn't good about eternal. Just ONE con.

Cyber Mancubi's blood punch armor thing doesn't really work with the fact that they have a massive punish for being at melee range also the Marauders are a little too easy to stun lock for supposedly being a "Smarter" monster.

The Dark Lord fight was also pathetically easy for The Final Final boss.

Also Also The Quick Swap reloads your gun thing is retarded as fuck to have left in, but that is a crime that Dark Ages also does.