DOOM

[Optimus Prime]

I don't mind Eternal's story in isolation, it's pretty much power-fantasy fluff which is what Doom ought to be about. But as a follow-up to 2016 it feels disconnected and weak. What made 2016's story special to me was that if you sat down and read the codex, you'd find some legit great worldbuilding and a bunch of interesting subplots that are directly related to the events of the game. You didn't have to read any of it, this is Doom after all and nobody plays it for that, but I thought it was rewarding to go through and piece together this world and how the characters connected to it. I don't really get that with Eternal and it doesn't provide much payoff for the subplots that were introduced in 2016.


Samuel felt like an entirely different person in Eternal. In 2016 he was vaguely malevolent; he was willing to help out to get things under control, but he clearly didn't like the Slayer fucking up his operation, which seemed more important to him than the insane loss of life ("What you now see is the cost of progress."). Jump to Eternal and that malevolence is just gone, at least until TAG Part 1. I don't mind the reveal itself too much but he was a far more interesting character in 2016.

Also I wish we got to fight him wielding that Crucible like that tease at the end of 2016.

100% agree.

I honestly thought 2016 for the most part was far more interesting just because you're there and don't have to give a shit about the story if you didn't want to but there's just enough there to be satisfying, Sammy really didn't try to hide the fact Doomguy was his ace-in-the-hole should something happen (which it of course does) and as you point out he was more concerned about his own operations than human life (especially if you know about the 2016 game's side story VR mission which follows a completely different character who Samuel betrays and kills at the end when he's done with them), and ultimately the whole plot came off more as humans fucking with shit they shouldn't have, paying the price with insane amounts of blood spilled, and Doomguy getting woken up to clean up the mess.

 

[Rakdos92]

Snip

I guess he was mad because he wanted to use her body as some kind of anchor, and the way Doomguy killed her put a wrench in that plan.

 

[JoseRaulChupacabra]

So, adding onto my post above about having no idea what the hell is happening with the story anymore, you know how at the end of the Khan Maykr fight a voice shouted out "No!" after defeating her? It was labelled as "Mysterious Voice" in the subtitles.

When TAG1 released, they changed the label to confirm it was the Dark Lord.

NOW, with the release of TAG2 people have found out that they changed it BACK to "Mysterious Voice". Speculation is that this is because of the retarded reveal that Dark Lord created Doomguy to destroy the Maykrs, and logically you'd assume he would've been happy Doomguy killed her off.

So, what exactly is going on? Was it the Dark Lord, or someone else? Who the fuck knows. At this point I'm pretty sure not even id does.

Doom's story basically went full Star Wars Sequel Trilogy. Completely devoid of any sense. There's always the porn story justification, but Doom 2016 actually had a fairly interesting setting, as simple as the story was.

Now that the Slayer has been sealed away, maybe they can make a prequel.

 

[BillionBisonBucks]

Now that the Slayer has been sealed away, maybe they can make a prequel.

I'm hoping for a reboot of Doom RPG on Argent D'nur.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I'm hoping for a reboot of Doom RPG on Argent D'nur.

My guess is that the next Doom game will be either a Doom RPG reboot or a horror-oriented prequel that's a spiritual remake of Doom 3 much like how Doom Eternal got its start as a pseudo-remake of Doom II's basic premise.

On another note, I'm going to get back into Classic Doom since I still have GZDoom and Doom II's IWAD (and Zombies: Invasion of the Dead TC, but I'm gonna try and disable or delete that mod)

I'm curious about trying out some Doom 2 Mega-WAD's.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

I'm curious about trying out some Doom 2 Mega-WAD's.

If you want some truly great stuff I highly recommend Eviternity, Valiant, and Doom Zero. Eviternity's got some sprawling maps and gorgeous visuals, along with some custom enemies that will keep you on your toes. Valiant is more fast and furious. It can be pretty difficult but oh man does it provide a rush. Doom Zero's a funny case in that if you squint you could almost think it was some lost Doom 3. Its level design somehow recalls the best of classic Doom while also remaining distinctly its own thing. It's more puzzle and exploration focused, but its combat is certainly no slouch either.

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

My guess is that the next Doom game will be either a Doom RPG reboot or a horror-oriented prequel that's a spiritual remake of Doom 3 much like how Doom Eternal got its start as a pseudo-remake of Doom II's basic premise.

At this point they could probably do a spinoff of the Doom Eternal universe where you're playing as a literal nobody again. Take the Eternal gameplay minus some of the frills, and stick it into a setting and narrative more like 2016 without all this ancient prophecy nonsense. More importantly, if they insist on putting in those third person cutscenes so they can have an excuse to put in skins and cosmetics, add in a toggleable autoskip for speedrunners and/or people who don't care.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I know this is autistic as fuck, but has anyone here ever thought of their own ideas for megawads or TC mods even if you're like me and you don't know jack about modding Doom?

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

I know this is autistic as fuck, but has anyone here ever thought of their own ideas for megawads or TC mods even if you're like me and you don't know jack about modding Doom?

I've thought about how cool it would be to make Doom maps. Don't think I'd be any good at it though, especially since some people are doing crazy stuff with the engine these days.

 

[Syaoran Li]

I've thought about how cool it would be to make Doom maps. Don't think I'd be any good at it though, especially since some people are doing crazy stuff with the engine these days.

No joke, I typed up a whole outline/design document for an idea I had for a Doom II megawad one time when I was really bored. That was years ago, but I've thought about typing it up again and seeing if I can get some actual Doom modders to help make it a reality.

Especially if I decide to factor in things like custom textures or new enemies, be it replacements for preexisting enemies or some of the Realm 667 stuff

 

[The Doom Slayer]

At this point they could probably do a spinoff of the Doom Eternal universe where you're playing as a literal nobody again. Take the Eternal gameplay minus some of the frills, and stick it into a setting and narrative more like 2016 without all this ancient prophecy nonsense. More importantly, if they insist on putting in those third person cutscenes so they can have an excuse to put in skins and cosmetics, add in a toggleable autoskip for speedrunners and/or people who don't care.

Since Doomguy seems to lose his divinity machine powers at the end of TAG2 I'm hoping it means they'll return to the more "grounded" approach of 2016 and tone everything back down in the next entry. I mean fuck, there's still so many threads remaining - Samur, the Wraiths, Doomguy's family, etc. And none of it really gets touched on in this DLC at all.

Like I said before, I'm guessing they'll either do a timeskip sequel or a prequel. Or both. Now that MS owns them I bet they'll want to keep churning Doom out since it's one of the few Bethesda IP that didn't completely faceplant in the last few years.

 

[The Marauder]

They better patch this shit I swear to god

 

[HaterOfAllManKind]

They better patch this shit I swear to god

I have to wonder if the toned down difficulty and hand holding coincides with the Doom Eternal not winning a single award at the Dorito Pope show.

Maybe Bethesda pressured Id into making the game journo friendly in some misguided attempt to earn more positive media coverage of the game.

 

[Cantercoin]

I know this is autistic as fuck, but has anyone here ever thought of their own ideas for megawads or TC mods even if you're like me and you don't know jack about modding Doom?

Coincidentally, this morning I thought about a WH 40K megawad involving the sisters of battle and inquisitors going to the lower levels of a quarantined hive world to fight plague zombies. Speaking of which are there any Warhammer mods for Doom?

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

I have to wonder if the toned down difficulty and hand holding coincides with the Doom Eternal not winning a single award at the Dorito Pope show.

Maybe Bethesda pressured Id into making the game journo friendly in some misguided attempt to earn more positive media coverage of the game.

The new "welcome to doom eternal" popup absolutely REEKS of corporate approved """""""""user experience"""""""" principles. Modern day corporate designers are absolutely obsessed with sanitizing their product via shoving "welcoming", overly personal sounding verbiage in absolutely everything, in an effort to mask the soulless profit machine behind the product. These people genuinely cannot comprehend the idea that the target audience for a fast paced stressful demon bloodbath simulator just might not want the game they are playing to sound welcoming. I suppose we should be thankful that they haven't started making Doom in that abominable pastel artstyle that soulless money grubbers love using so much. Yet.

 

[The Penultimate Warrior]

At this point they could probably do a spinoff of the Doom Eternal universe where you're playing as a literal nobody again. Take the Eternal gameplay minus some of the frills, and stick it into a setting and narrative more like 2016 without all this ancient prophecy nonsense. More importantly, if they insist on putting in those third person cutscenes so they can have an excuse to put in skins and cosmetics, add in a toggleable autoskip for speedrunners and/or people who don't care.

I'd like to see a Doom 3 spiritual sequel where you could just play as some random soldier, stuck on earth during the demon invasion and with a much greater horror vibe.

 

[The Marauder]

I’m really hoping id can turn this around.

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

I’m really hoping id can turn this around.

He points out another issue with the DLC, which is the soundtrack. When Mick Gordon left, Andrew Hulshult was easily the best choice they had to replace him, barring the unlikely scenario that they could somehow get the Guilty Gear guy onboard. However, recreating Mick Gordon's particular style is a tall order and I'm not sure they should have even tried. What I'd really like for the next Doom game is for them to return Doom's soundtrack to its roots, IE shamelessly ripping off random bay area thrash metal bands and riffs for days. All this grungey Nu-metal stuff worked because Gordon had some particular x-factor that made it work, but that's his thing in particular and he's gone. If Id really wants to complete their return to classic Doom aesthetic the style of the soundtrack needs to change, and the DLCs were a missed opportunity to do exactly that.

 

[BillionBisonBucks]

He points out another issue with the DLC, which is the soundtrack. When Mick Gordon left, Andrew Hulshult was easily the best choice they had to replace him, barring the unlikely scenario that they could somehow get the Guilty Gear guy onboard. However, recreating Mick Gordon's particular style is a tall order and I'm not sure they should have even tried. What I'd really like for the next Doom game is for them to return Doom's soundtrack to its roots, IE shamelessly ripping off random bay area thrash metal bands and riffs for days. All this grungey Nu-metal stuff worked because Gordon had some particular x-factor that made it work, but that's his thing in particular and he's gone. If Id really wants to complete their return to classic Doom aesthetic the style of the soundtrack needs to change, and the DLCs were a missed opportunity to do exactly that.

All that being said, I'm glad hulshult got the resume fodder. I'm really hoping he gets to work on a game with something new to say, on a level where he gets to interact with the design. I'm pretty sure id just gave the dude with the rep for insane output exactly to spec some marching orders, after the last debacle, but I'd like to see his particular ethos infuse a game to a greater level than has been done before. Maybe now that he's 'Worked on Doom' certified, some indie studio will consider him a big score and listen to his input on soundscapes in general.

I don't have a lot of evidence to feel this way, because he is the workhorse guy for retro music, but anyone who can output good music at that rate clearly has a lot going on upstairs, and talent wants to be used.

Your unlikely scenario of 'the guilty gear guy' is great, though, because Daisuke Ishiwatari is the producer of the whole series and emblematic of my highest hopes for what a sound-forward project should look like.

 

[BrunoMattei]

They better patch this shit I swear to god

I can smell the tendies from here.