DOOM

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

I’m really hoping id can turn this around.

Video's gone private. He's explained why.

 

[Overcast]

Sounds like TAG doesn't seem worth playing.

That's kind of a shame. Eternal was pretty awesome by itself despite some issues.

Spoiler

Was I the only one who thought you would ride around one of those giant Sentinel mechs at some point? I could see there being a phase of the fight where you fight the Icon of Sin in one before heading back down to the ground.

Granted, I'd imagine using mechs might not be Doomguy's style.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Sounds like TAG doesn't seem worth playing.

That's kind of a shame. Eternal was pretty awesome by itself despite some issues.

Spoiler

Was I the only one who thought you would ride around one of those giant Sentinel mechs at some point? I could see there being a phase of the fight where you fight the Icon of Sin in one before heading back down to the ground.

Granted, I'd imagine using mechs might not be Doomguy's style.

Except there's one of the giant mechs literally hanging in front of the Fortess of DOOM's elevator, so Doomguy has one (albiet non-operational), it just doesn't make a lot of sense why such a thing is in the game given it serves no functional purpose.

 

[Overcast]

Except there's one of the giant mechs literally hanging in front of the Fortess of DOOM's elevator, so Doomguy has one (albiet non-operational), it just doesn't make a lot of sense why such a thing is in the game given it serves no functional purpose.

Exactly. I was hoping that mech would come into play at some point, but it was just decoration.

 

[The Doom Slayer]

Video's gone private. He's explained why.

View attachment 2021627

Watched his vid before it got taken down. Hard to disagree with much of what he said really.

A shame this seems to be blowing up into a minor shitshow. I do think id will revert/fix the gameplay problems people have because unlike certain other devs, they aren't completely up their own asses based on what I've seen. The story however is another... well, story, as it'd be hard to fix/retcon that in the short-term unless they release another DLC or something.

Mayo did bring up something about the difficulty though that I'm starting to agree more and more with. I think the enemies that get spawned (as well as maybe their behavior?) should change depending on what difficulty you're playing. Initially I disagreed with this because id seemed to be operating on a Dark Souls "Deal with it and get good" mentality where everyone sort of had a level playing field, just with different damage values. But now that they've started actively changing enemy spawns (something I'm still surprised they did), maybe it's time to look into it. Halo does it and no one's ever really had a problem with it.

 

[Uncle June]

Just finished it last night.

The scene where

Spoiler

it rips off the avengers and all of Doomguy's allies come out of the portals

was cringe as fuck. Have no idea what ID were smoking, it was almost as bad as the new star wars movie when the main bitch ripped off of Iron Man's last line.


Otherwise it was terrible, but definitely worse than the base game and TAG I. I can definitely relate to a lot of the concerns Mayo had in his video.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

Really, they shoulda stuck with the OG Doom style atmosphere and lore: Evil Dead meets Aliens. I liked this 40K-esque nonsense at first during Eternal, but the Ancient Gods DLC really overblew it. I still think they should keep and maybe even make Doomguy stronger with each installment, but in the style of Berserk; Doomguy should have a long way to go before he starts killing Satan and pals. This high fantasy shit ain't Doom. In a mod, sure I could buy that. But a mainline Doom game? Naw nigga, gimme my space marines and Evil Dead style demons back, that was some good shit. Hell, even Doom 3 got that right! Doom 2016 even sorta got that right!

Still, I'm laughing my ass off at the tards on /V/. I swear, half the people complaining there haven't even played the game lol. It's pretty much just a glorified leak checker for me at this point.

Hasn’t Doomguy already for a long time. The way I interpreted the Doom story is that since the Doomslayer is the Doomguy, not just has he fought in Doom 1, 2, 64, and 3 but every single .wad and game mod ever made for the Doom series.

By that metric, Doomguy is more than ready to take on the Dark Lord.

 

[Ruin]

Yea I won't lie the high fantasy stuff really put me off Eternal. Doom is supposed to be horror/low sci fi.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Watched his vid before it got taken down. Hard to disagree with much of what he said really.

A shame this seems to be blowing up into a minor shitshow. I do think id will revert/fix the gameplay problems people have because unlike certain other devs, they aren't completely up their own asses based on what I've seen. The story however is another... well, story, as it'd be hard to fix/retcon that in the short-term unless they release another DLC or something.

Mayo did bring up something about the difficulty though that I'm starting to agree more and more with. I think the enemies that get spawned (as well as maybe their behavior?) should change depending on what difficulty you're playing. Initially I disagreed with this because id seemed to be operating on a Dark Souls "Deal with it and get good" mentality where everyone sort of had a level playing field, just with different damage values. But now that they've started actively changing enemy spawns (something I'm still surprised they did), maybe it's time to look into it. Halo does it and no one's ever really had a problem with it.

Oh it’s absolutely something to consider. Devil May Cry does it with its difficulties and bloody palace, but those games also gates them behind beating the normal mode. Doom has all of them unlocked at the start. I think that’s generally what the master levels are supposed to be, and hopefully thwy can put out more of those now that the dlc is mostly dealt with.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

The guy who made the Dear ID Software video made a follow-up walking back on some of his complaints and stating that the initial video was toxic.

 

[Optimus Prime]

Yea I won't lie the high fantasy stuff really put me off Eternal. Doom is supposed to be horror/low sci fi.

I'll be perfectly honest, I would love a direct sequel to 2016 that just continues that aesthetic and goes in a different direction with the story that cuts out the Slayer actively needing to be involved with the Night Sentinels in the present day (since they're part of the original 2016 lore and why you have knight ghost dudes popping up right before the Spider Mastermind).

I mean, we still don't even have an actual story reason for how Doomguy goes from the end of 2016 to popping up around Earth in a SPACE FORTRESS. Where the hell did he even get that thing?

But nah, give me 2016 again except Samuel is forced to re-summon Doomguy in the middle of the Hell invasion, instead of once again after the demons fuck everything up. This one dude is supposed to be able to beat back the armies of hell, let's see him utterly crush a demon offensive before the slaughter of innocents.

 

[BillionBisonBucks]

HOLY SHIT the endboss for TAG2 is fucking TERRIBLE. Who thought turtling was the way to go for the culmination of this game? I heard people say 'super marauder' and rolled my eyes, but figured it would at least be fun-ish. It's not. Not at all. That heal mechanic is absolute trash. I get what they're going for - He has your abilities, blah blah blah, but those abilities are a gameplay abstraction in service of keeping forward momentum up at all times. I just spent ten minutes with neither of us making any headway on the other. That is not in service of forward momentum. I actually quit out to look up a guide and see if I was missing something, but no. It's just a five phase slog against the same unfun bullshit, with what looks to be increasing levels of unfun and bullshit as it progresses.

 

[Ruin]

The DLC has actually made me reevaluate my opinion of the entire game. I was at a 9/10 now I'd say an 8-8.5 at best

Skillup was right 2016 was way better. Both as a game overall and as a DOOM game.

 

[The Marauder]

HOLY SHIT the endboss for TAG2 is fucking TERRIBLE. Who thought turtling was the way to go for the culmination of this game? I heard people say 'super marauder' and rolled my eyes, but figured it would at least be fun-ish. It's not. Not at all. That heal mechanic is absolute trash. I get what they're going for - He has your abilities, blah blah blah, but those abilities are a gameplay abstraction in service of keeping forward momentum up at all times. I just spent ten minutes with neither of us making any headway on the other. That is not in service of forward momentum. I actually quit out to look up a guide and see if I was missing something, but no. It's just a five phase slog against the same unfun bullshit, with what looks to be increasing levels of unfun and bullshit as it progresses.

Ancient Gods Part 2 leaked final boss concept art (REAL)

 

[Kane Lives]

Hasn’t Doomguy already for a long time. The way I interpreted the Doom story is that since the Doomslayer is the Doomguy, not just has he fought in Doom 1, 2, 64, and 3 but every single .wad and game mod ever made for the Doom series.

By that metric, Doomguy is more than ready to take on the Dark Lord.

lmao. Doomguy surviving the slaughter maps of the 90s and 00s, and modern OG Doom wads should be more than enough.

Fuck me, modern Doom wads really do up the difficulty a LOT. I mean, we're talking facing down revenants with only a shotgun, or being expected to berserk punch them.

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

It would appear that Hugo gave his two cents on TAG2's lukewarm reception. While he does seem to acknowledge that they went too far with TAG 1 nerfs, he's otherwise taking the position that going forward Master Levels are the challenge seekers should go. While I do think that could work, the master levels are coming out a bit on the slow(and buggy) side, so there's already that as a problem. Furthermore, the phrase "we can't make the DLCs like that, guys" seems a bit uncharacteristic of him and I can't help but indulge the meme of corporate meddling. They've been pretty adamant that Bethesda has let them do their own thing, but now Microsoft is part of the equation. The fact that we get a significantly toned down difficulty curve and the sudden inclusion of corporate friendly UX bullshit shortly after Microsoft takes over is deeply concerning and potentially bodes ill for the future of both Id and Bethesda as a whole.

edit: I do not remember where I found the facebook screenshot where he talks about undoing some of the TAG 1 nerfs, but I'm 99% certain I saw it and will post it when or if I manage to track it down. here it is, ~10 minute mark. he also thinks new players are going to jump straight into the DLC. That never really occurred to me; I don't think that's a likely scenario, but couldn't they just take that stupid "welcome to doom eternal" popup and repurpose it specifically for the DLC, saying something along the lines of "Welcome to the Doom Eternal DLC, play the main campaign first or you will get your shit pushed in by possessed marauders."? I don't agree with their reasoning but I get the distinct feeling they either can't or won't change their minds on this.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

lmao. Doomguy surviving the slaughter maps of the 90s and 00s, and modern OG Doom wads should be more than enough.

Fuck me, modern Doom wads really do up the difficulty a LOT. I mean, we're talking facing down revenants with only a shotgun, or being expected to berserk punch them.

There's one map in Unholy Realms that expects you to either pistol or berserk punch a room with a couple of Hell Knights, one revenant, and a handful of imps, and that's after running across the bottom of a chasm while getting picked at by shotgunners and mauled by specters.

The kicker here is that the text file that comes with the WAD labels it as Medium/Hard, meaning the creator thinks it's somewhat easier than the previous map which was more of an all-out brawl where you at least had all the weapons.

 

[Optimus Prime]

HOLY SHIT the endboss for TAG2 is fucking TERRIBLE. Who thought turtling was the way to go for the culmination of this game? I heard people say 'super marauder' and rolled my eyes, but figured it would at least be fun-ish. It's not. Not at all. That heal mechanic is absolute trash. I get what they're going for - He has your abilities, blah blah blah, but those abilities are a gameplay abstraction in service of keeping forward momentum up at all times. I just spent ten minutes with neither of us making any headway on the other. That is not in service of forward momentum. I actually quit out to look up a guide and see if I was missing something, but no. It's just a five phase slog against the same unfun bullshit, with what looks to be increasing levels of unfun and bullshit as it progresses.

It does bear mentioning how uninspired the whole end sequence seems to be. Like, nevermind the obvious shit like how the ship Dark Lord flies off in is an upside down cross (which technically never was a symbol of the devil to begin with), but he's just wearing armor that makes him beefy.

He's a fucking chaos space marine who is basically a super Marauder as you point out. For some absurd reason, it seems Eternal's development is obsessed with this whole stupid idea of Doomguy needing to face off against counterparts. Because wasn't the whole point of the Marauder to be the supposed dark reflection of Doomguy in the first place as Corrupted Night Sentinels? And then there's Doom Hunters who, while as an enemy are actually perfectly fine, their entire lore is fucked up because during the introduction the priest guy won't shut up about how the Aggadon Hunters were bred specifically to fight the Slayer and the Night Sentinels in the Unholy Crusades, to which end all he's done is make cyborg tank zombies out of them.

At least with the Icon of Sin you literally have to blow the giant fucker to bits and then drive a sword into his face, a relatively unique fight. Dark Lord, who apparently is straight up God, is just a glorified existing enemy with a multi-phase fight that drags on and on and on. And I STILL don't get what the fuck the wolves are all about, since when did wolves have anything to DO with DOOM?

At the very least Necromunda: Hired Gun got teased and THAT shit is looking dope. Similar aesthetics with Titanfall 2 wall parkour and a rat grenade.

 

[Titos]

It would appear that Hugo gave his two cents on TAG2's lukewarm reception. While he does seem to acknowledge that they went too far with TAG 1 nerfs, he's otherwise taking the position that going forward Master Levels are the challenge seekers should go. While I do think that could work, the master levels are coming out a bit on the slow(and buggy) side, so there's already that as a problem. Furthermore, the phrase "we can't make the DLCs like that, guys" seems a bit uncharacteristic of him and I can't help but indulge the meme of corporate meddling. They've been pretty adamant that Bethesda has let them do their own thing, but now Microsoft is part of the equation. The fact that we get a significantly toned down difficulty curve and the sudden inclusion of corporate friendly UX bullshit shortly after Microsoft takes over is deeply concerning and potentially bodes ill for the future of both Id and Bethesda as a whole.

I could see it being Marty Stratton or someone else at Bethesda asking Hugo to tone it down a bit, I don't think MS would be able to make them change anything even if they wanted to since TAG2 was probably pretty much finished by the time MS legally owned them. I could honestly see it being Hugos reaction to getting snubbed at pretty much every award show, normally I would assume he wouldn't care but if you go back and watch Geoff Keighlys cringe fest Hugo looks actively pissed during the GOTY section, he didn't even clap for the winner if I remember right. I personally think TAG2 probably ended up how it did due to a number of things, 1) The DLC was clearly rushed: new enemies are re-skins, the guards on the last level are blatantly unfinished, much buggier than the other content. 2) They were told to tone it down a bit and went too far, only for there not to be enough time to fine tune the difficulty before release. Though that doesn't really explain why they nerfed TAG1 so it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

 

[Snekposter]

I honestly don't terribly mind the Doomguy ripping and tearing his way to being the boss of a bunch of anti-demon Night Sentinels or what have you. Its everything else Eternal and TAG has done that I find hard to swallow. Especially the Fortress of DOOM that appeared out of thin air with Doomguy on it and with his thumb up his ass as the demons killed what, 80% of all mankind? Eternal should have started off in Hell and you claw your way out of it back to the mortal plane only to find out that thanks to Samuel's obsession with Argent Energy he's opened some more portals to hell and you need to go deal with them and him once and for all.