DOOM

[Toolbox]

I honestly don't terribly mind the Doomguy ripping and tearing his way to being the boss of a bunch of anti-demon Night Sentinels or what have you. Its everything else Eternal and TAG has done that I find hard to swallow. Especially the Fortress of DOOM that appeared out of thin air with Doomguy on it and with his thump up his ass as the demons killed what, 80% of all mankind? Eternal should have started off in Hell and you claw your way out of it back to the mortal plane only to find out that thanks to Samuel's obsession with Argent Energy he's opened some more portals to hell and you need to go deal with them and him once and for all.

The end of 2016 implies that doomguy is sent somewhere and has to find his way to something like the fortress. That could at least explain how it took him so long to get to Earth, but they completely skip over any explanation.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Am I the only one that doesn’t mind the final boss? My primary complaints are that you probably get to use the hammer too often (it probably needs to be 4-5 breaks or kills to charge instead of 2) and the armoured barons aren’t put in with enemy comps that use them well.

 

[The Doom Slayer]

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It would appear that Hugo gave his two cents on TAG2's lukewarm reception. While he does seem to acknowledge that they went too far with TAG 1 nerfs, he's otherwise taking the position that going forward Master Levels are the challenge seekers should go. While I do think that could work, the master levels are coming out a bit on the slow(and buggy) side, so there's already that as a problem. Furthermore, the phrase "we can't make the DLCs like that, guys" seems a bit uncharacteristic of him and I can't help but indulge the meme of corporate meddling. They've been pretty adamant that Bethesda has let them do their own thing, but now Microsoft is part of the equation. The fact that we get a significantly toned down difficulty curve and the sudden inclusion of corporate friendly UX bullshit shortly after Microsoft takes over is deeply concerning and potentially bodes ill for the future of both Id and Bethesda as a whole.

edit: I do not remember where I found the facebook screenshot where he talks about undoing some of the TAG 1 nerfs, but I'm 99% certain I saw it and will post it when or if I manage to track it down. here it is, ~10 minute mark. he also thinks new players are going to jump straight into the DLC. That never really occurred to me; I don't think that's a likely scenario, but couldn't they just take that stupid "welcome to doom eternal" popup and repurpose it specifically for the DLC, saying something along the lines of "Welcome to the Doom Eternal DLC, play the main campaign first or you will get your shit pushed in by possessed marauders."? I don't agree with their reasoning but I get the distinct feeling they either can't or won't change their minds on this.

Kinda surprised by this TBH. I've watched his streams and his attitude very much seemed to be "This is a skill based game and the DLC is for people who've "graduated" from the base game and so the difficulty has to be cranked up even more, like in the Souls DLCs". Now he seems to be pulling back on that a little and saying that's what the master levels are for instead. Which makes sense in theory, but it's been a year since the game released and there's still only 3 master levels in the game. It's possible they could start cranking them out faster now that they aren't working on DLCs anymore, but that remains to be seen.

Does kinda make me wonder if they were told to tone things down, but I've seen no real evidence of that so far.

I do think letting people play the DLC without playing the base game first may have been a mistake, as jumping right into (pre-nerf) TAG1 would be like going up against Mike Tyson on your first day of boxing school.

I could see it being Marty Stratton or someone else at Bethesda asking Hugo to tone it down a bit, I don't think MS would be able to make them change anything even if they wanted to since TAG2 was probably pretty much finished by the time MS legally owned them. I could honestly see it being Hugos reaction to getting snubbed at pretty much every award show, normally I would assume he wouldn't care but if you go back and watch Geoff Keighlys cringe fest Hugo looks actively pissed during the GOTY section, he didn't even clap for the winner if I remember right. I personally think TAG2 probably ended up how it did due to a number of things, 1) The DLC was clearly rushed: new enemies are re-skins, the guards on the last level are blatantly unfinished, much buggier than the other content. 2) They were told to tone it down a bit and went too far, only for there not to be enough time to fine tune the difficulty before release. Though that doesn't really explain why they nerfed TAG1 so it's entirely possible I'm wrong.

I really hope Hugo isn't worried about that shit because those retard journalists were going to brute force TLOU2 into winning every award possible regardless of how easy or hard Eternal was.

The end of 2016 implies that doomguy is sent somewhere and has to find his way to something like the fortress. That could at least explain how it took him so long to get to Earth, but they completely skip over any explanation.

IIRC Hugo did say an explanation would be in TAG2's lore pages, but apparently that didn't happen. Which again makes me think something may have happened during development...

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

Kind surprised by this TBH. I've watched his streams and his attitude very much seemed to be "This is a skill based game and the DLC is for people who've "graduated" from the base game and so the difficulty has to be cranked up even more, like in the Souls DLCs". Now he seems to be pulling back on that a little and saying that's what the master levels are for instead.

Exactly. He's suddenly reversing course with no real explanation. He's been fairly transparent about his decision making in the past, now it feels like he's responding to some internal pressure that he's not at liberty to disclose to his customers. That's not a good sign.

I do think letting people play the DLC without playing the base game first may have been a mistake, as jumping right into (pre-nerf) TAG1 would be like going up against Mike Tyson on your first day of boxing school.

Some people genuinely enjoy that kind of experience. All they really needed to do was give fair warning up front that the DLC is post-endgame difficulty. Maybe trigger one of those delayed close button popups if a players attempts to start a DLC campaign without having completed the base game.

I could see it being Marty Stratton or someone else at Bethesda asking Hugo to tone it down a bit, I don't think MS would be able to make them change anything even if they wanted to since TAG2 was probably pretty much finished by the time MS legally owned them. I could honestly see it being Hugos reaction to getting snubbed at pretty much every award show, normally I would assume he wouldn't care but if you go back and watch Geoff Keighlys cringe fest Hugo looks actively pissed during the GOTY section, he didn't even clap for the winner if I remember right.

I really hope Hugo isn't starting to care what game journos think. He's fairly in touch with the community, he knows perfectly well that they don't give two shits if some overpaid professional blogger who can't complete the Cuphead tutorial goes on to complain that Doom is too challenging. I still think MS influence is possible, we don't know how long negotiations were going on behind the scenes, for all we know some changes could have been set in motion well before the acquisition was formalized. Maybe Id will put out a formal statement regarding this whole thing like they did with Gordon's departure and the Denuvo mess. Then again, maybe they'll quietly release a balancing patch in a week or two like they did with the SGN master level. It certainly seems like the playerbase is already cooling off a bit, and there's usually a certain threshold a problem has to reach before they address it up front like that.

 

[Titos]

I really hope Hugo isn't starting to care what game journos think. He's fairly in touch with the community, he knows perfectly well that they don't give two shits if some overpaid professional blogger who can't complete the Cuphead tutorial goes on to complain that Doom is too challenging. I still think MS influence is possible, we don't know how long negotiations were going on behind the scenes, for all we know some changes could have been set in motion well before the acquisition was formalized. Maybe Id will put out a formal statement regarding this whole thing like they did with Gordon's departure and the Denuvo mess. Then again, maybe they'll quietly release a balancing patch in a week or two like they did with the SGN master level. It certainly seems like the playerbase is already cooling off a bit, and there's usually a certain threshold a problem has to reach before they address it up front like that.

To my knowledge that would actually be illegal to do since you aren't allowed to dictate things to a company you are in the process of acquiring, though I'm not a lawyer so that's just based off of basic research. It could be any number of reasons. I haven't played through TAG1 again yet to see if Hugos logic of a better pace actually pans out yet though.

 

[Back Room Fried Chicken]

Interview with Hugo by Modders and YouTubers.

Key Points:

Hugo claims the nerfs were his idea and were an effort to make the experience less "exhausting" while preserving the difficulty in the relevant areas. Several nerfs mainly the ones in UAC Atlantica will be reverted.

The lower difficulty of TAG2 was the result of the team aiming to make it a fun romp for your first playthrough, but admitted subsequent playthroughs ended up suffering for it as the lower difficulty reduced depth. Some sections of TAG2 will be looked at for buffs.

Hugo admits the hammer is overpowered and ends up replacing the chainsaw outside of immunity frames. Says the aim of it was to give players something cool as a reward for the end of this journey to power trip on and doesn't want to nerf it. Instead would rather balance (TAG2) master levels around being good with it.

Apparently their bosses take a year to get working. The Dark Lord's healing on hitting the player may get nerfed. Also the execution of the Dark Lord is what they settled on due to the time and funding they were allotted for the DLC due to it being DLC.

There are two Master Levels that are almost done depending on how balance and bug testing goes. Neither of them are TAG2 Master levels and we should not expect those for some time.

 

[Titos]

Interview with Hugo by Modders and YouTubers.

Key Points:

Hugo claims the nerfs were his idea and were an effort to make the experience less "exhausting" while preserving the difficulty in the relevant areas. Several nerfs mainly the ones in UAC Atlantica will be reverted.

The lower difficulty of TAG2 was the result of the team aiming to make it a fun romp for your first playthrough, but admitted subsequent playthroughs ended up suffering for it as the lower difficulty reduced depth. Some sections of TAG2 will be looked at for buffs.

Hugo admits the hammer is overpowered and ends up replacing the chainsaw outside of immunity frames. Says the aim of it was to give players something cool as a reward for the end of this journey to power trip on and doesn't want to nerf it. Instead would rather balance (TAG2) master levels around being good with it.

Apparently their bosses take a year to get working. The Dark Lord's healing on hitting the player may get nerfed. Also the execution of the Dark Lord is what they settled on due to the time and funding they were allotted for the DLC due to it being DLC.

There are two Master Levels that are almost done depending on how balance and bug testing goes. Neither of them are TAG2 Master levels and we should not expect those for some time.

Well that snuffs out some worries, good. Not sure what they would buff in TAG2 but please just don't add more cursed prowlers.

 

[augment]

I just wonder if Hugo Martin has ever sat down and tried to ultra-nightmare one of his precious master levels using a fucking controller, without the benefit of weapon keybinds and adjusted FOV. And no, autoaim is disabled, we will keep some dignity here.

 

[Jack Awful]

Interview with Hugo by Modders and YouTubers.

Key Points:

Hugo claims the nerfs were his idea and were an effort to make the experience less "exhausting" while preserving the difficulty in the relevant areas. Several nerfs mainly the ones in UAC Atlantica will be reverted.

The lower difficulty of TAG2 was the result of the team aiming to make it a fun romp for your first playthrough, but admitted subsequent playthroughs ended up suffering for it as the lower difficulty reduced depth. Some sections of TAG2 will be looked at for buffs.

Hugo admits the hammer is overpowered and ends up replacing the chainsaw outside of immunity frames. Says the aim of it was to give players something cool as a reward for the end of this journey to power trip on and doesn't want to nerf it. Instead would rather balance (TAG2) master levels around being good with it.

Apparently their bosses take a year to get working. The Dark Lord's healing on hitting the player may get nerfed. Also the execution of the Dark Lord is what they settled on due to the time and funding they were allotted for the DLC due to it being DLC.

There are two Master Levels that are almost done depending on how balance and bug testing goes. Neither of them are TAG2 Master levels and we should not expect those for some time.

This is the best possible response to the situation. Hugo and iD rule.

 

[Overcast]

Rate me late, but did the Marauder get nerfed?

I noticed when hitting him in one of the Slayer Gates, his stun is a bit longer and there's a weird noise and stars appear over him.

 

[Duncan Hills Coffee]

Rate me late, but did the Marauder get nerfed?

I noticed when hitting him in one of the Slayer Gates, his stun is a bit longer and there's a weird noise and stars appear over him.

That's been one of the big complaints since TAG 2 came out. I've seen people complain that there's no way to turn it off. I think if it were an option, like something you turned on if you were having trouble with him, then people wouldn't have as big an issue.

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

There are two Master Levels that are almost done depending on how balance and bug testing goes. Neither of them are TAG2 Master levels and we should not expect those for some time.

I’m assuming one of them is Exultia. Modders apparently found the beginnings of it really early on in the game’s life.

Rate me late, but did the Marauder get nerfed?

I noticed when hitting him in one of the Slayer Gates, his stun is a bit longer and there's a weird noise and stars appear over him.

He’s honestly been a bit harder for me, but that’s probably because I redid my keybinds and moved the ssg and ballista off my mouse wheel to q and mouse 5.

 

[Jack Awful]

Rate me late, but did the Marauder get nerfed?

I noticed when hitting him in one of the Slayer Gates, his stun is a bit longer and there's a weird noise and stars appear over him.

Maybe? The stars thing is a new thing that came with the hammer weapon from the new DLC.

It stuns enemies hit in its radius, plays a cartoony sound, and gives them yellow swirly stars over their head.

However, now the same thing but with blue stars happens when you stun a Marauder.

I think it should only happen when you use the hammer IMHO.

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

Rate me late, but did the Marauder get nerfed?

I noticed when hitting him in one of the Slayer Gates, his stun is a bit longer and there's a weird noise and stars appear over him.

Apparently that's a bug. They didn't intentionally nerf the Marauder, other than the hammer making him stupid easy to kill.

 

[The Doom Slayer]

Apparently their bosses take a year to get working. The Dark Lord's healing on hitting the player may get nerfed. Also the execution of the Dark Lord is what they settled on due to the time and funding they were allotted for the DLC due to it being DLC.

This just makes me think even more they should've saved this stuff for a third game, because yeah there was that thing in the season pass saying both DLCs would be out within a year.

I really do wonder why they chose to wrap this up in a DLC. There was an early leaked listing on the Bethesda store saying that the DLCs would cover what happened between 2016 and Eternal. Either that was just inaccurate, or something changed. But I honestly think I would've preferred getting that instead.

 

[Jack Awful]

This just makes me think even more they should've saved this stuff for a third game, because yeah there was that thing in the season pass saying both DLCs would be out within a year.

I really do wonder why they chose to wrap this up in a DLC. There was an early leaked listing on the Bethesda store saying that the DLCs would cover what happened between 2016 and Eternal. Either that was just inaccurate, or something changed. But I honestly think I would've preferred getting that instead.

Agreed, maybe they didn't think they could mix it up enough for another full Doom game, or there was a mandate or something.

Worth noting that the season pass was called the Year ONE pass, so if we're lucky we could get a Year 2.

I'm hoping for a Quake 1 reboot that takes Eternals's design philosophy but mixes things up like focusing on new things like rocket jumping, and exists in a multiverse with Doom.

 

[Optimus Prime]

This just makes me think even more they should've saved this stuff for a third game, because yeah there was that thing in the season pass saying both DLCs would be out within a year.

I really do wonder why they chose to wrap this up in a DLC. There was an early leaked listing on the Bethesda store saying that the DLCs would cover what happened between 2016 and Eternal. Either that was just inaccurate, or something changed. But I honestly think I would've preferred getting that instead.

Part of me wonders if Id/Bethesda/whoever saw the lukewarm reaction to the ending of Eternal and reversed course hard to try and actually give something suitable as an ending.

I mean, you finally kill the Icon of Sin and the only thing that happens is a pan-out camera movement and King whatshisname does a voiceover, then the Earth stops glowing red and that's it. At least with TAG1/2 you finally get something of a reasonable ending with the admittedly badass way Doomguy handles executing Dark Lord in the most still-gives-zero-fucks way possible.

But I doubt at this point we're ever going to get the missing two years between 2016 and Eternal, since there's a lot to explain and I just don't think they'll have the time or resources to figure it out. I mean, the Super Shotty alone somehow gets modified with the meathook and then lost by Doomguy to be held in the cultist base while Doomguy isn't even on the same dimensional plane?

 

[Takayuki Yagami]

Part of me wonders if Id/Bethesda/whoever saw the lukewarm reaction to the ending of Eternal and reversed course hard to try and actually give something suitable as an ending.

I mean, you finally kill the Icon of Sin and the only thing that happens is a pan-out camera movement and King whatshisname does a voiceover, then the Earth stops glowing red and that's it. At least with TAG1/2 you finally get something of a reasonable ending with the admittedly badass way Doomguy handles executing Dark Lord in the most still-gives-zero-fucks way possible.

But I doubt at this point we're ever going to get the missing two years between 2016 and Eternal, since there's a lot to explain and I just don't think they'll have the time or resources to figure it out. I mean, the Super Shotty alone somehow gets modified with the meathook and then lost by Doomguy to be held in the cultist base while Doomguy isn't even on the same dimensional plane?

The super shotty from Eternal is the same one he had in Doom 2 modified into whatit is now. The one you use in 2016 is something you pull off the corpse of some redshirt.

 

[Syaoran Li]

Unpopular opinion, but I hate the fact that Doom Eternal removed the pistol.

Also, I'm interested in seeing what a Quake reboot would look like, especially since Quake didn't have as much going for it when it comes to story and setting and it mainly coasted off the fact that it was a true 3D game made by the people who did Doom.

IIRC, Quake 1 was a vaguely gothic story about demons while Quake 2 went in a more explicitly sci-fi direction. Quake 3 was multiplayer only.

The real question is would a Quake reboot be more like the first game or the second game?

 

[Ruin]

Unpopular opinion, but I hate the fact that Doom Eternal removed the pistol.

That's unpopular? Everyone I've spoken to has said they hate the fact that there's no good way to take down weak mobs without wasting ammo especially since glory kills were nerfed into the ground.