DOTA 2

Watching that KingRaven video and other old DOTA 2 videos makes me wish I got into it early on when I first joined Steam in the early 2010s.

Then again, it might've turned me into a fat crippling ASSFAGGOTS addict that craves VICTORY CUM.
 
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Patrick Bait-man said:
Watching that KingRaven video and other old DOTA 2 videos makes me wish I got into it early on when I first joined Steam in the early 2010s.
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Thermonuclear take but the game itself is at a better state right now than it was a decade ago.
The playerbase is a decrepit retirement home of tired bitter assholes though, but it can be relaxing at times.
 
Fae Supremacist said:
Thermonuclear take but the game itself is at a better state right now than it was a decade ago.
The playerbase is a decrepit retirement home of tired bitter assholes though, but it can be relaxing at times.
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It's weird. I agree the game is much more enjoyable and (crucially) better paced, but for some reason the game has completely lost that götterfunken that made it special.

I think there's a thing, where a truly great game goes from [Banger Release] -> [Golden Era] -> [Product Era]. When it drops, there's no "meta", everyone is kind of dumb and playing at the same level, some are naturally better than others. But after a few years the oldfags get so good at the game and have so much of it trained to muscle memory, that it's no longer special to the oldfag or to new players.

That's why games like Overwatch and Marvel Rivals have similar trends. Banger game drops, millions play it, all are playing at effectively the same level of experience with that specific game, and then it gets sanded down by patches into product that loses the spark.
 
Asian tech support said:
IIRC he trooned out right in the middle of an era during which quite a few Dota personalities (tobiwan, grandgrant, and I think there were a couple others) were being outed as alleged sex pests. The working theory I had at the time was that he was pulling a Kevin Spacey and trying to preemptively use trooning out as a shield against potential future allegations, but he disappeared and I stopped paying attention to the competitive scene shortly thereafter.
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This is where i dropped off, Grandgrant and Tobi were the heart of soul of casting and fun goofing. Even stupid shit like TI Na qual would be fun with them. After that retarded me too shit we were stuck with fucking trent and lyrical on mainstage TI. Absolutely disgusting. Dropped off playing and watching right there
 
I would mild-ly disagree with the idea that once the meta got solved that dota felt dead.
It is an ultra competitive game where people are paid to solve the meta. And the game is so complex that even at immortal it still feels like everyone is kinda dumb.
But over the years it really has lost its sense of "community fun" and I feel that this is related to the "product era", I think valve just got comfortable in the game running like clockwerk ;)

So I don't think that the "meta" was solved, but the "meta-meta" instead was
 
Haven't played in a few years, but I think the specific meta of what is played (heroes/items) doesn't stay solved overlong, though how the game is played overall has stayed mostly solved. Another problem IMO is the level of expected player skill has gone way up, and the skill floor has gotten to where there's just not much in the way of "relaxed"/"fun" matches or new players. I think concepts like pulling or stacking would put you at a Archon-Legend MMR equivalent in 2012, but nowadays they're as basic as last hitting and you would barely deserve to be Guardian at best without consistently doing both. It's natural for a game as it ages, but I miss sometimes you could win doing silly shit like just pushing ultra-aggresively with heroes like Leshrac, NP, or DP; or not feel like you're just going to lose just because your support didn't start stacking ancients from their first spawn every single minute without fail. Perhaps I just have a skill issue, but I enjoyed Dota the most when I could just chill and have alright matches without feeling like I need to be playing better and better. Bought accounts and smurfs really don't help the issue either; especially with Valve being pretty slow at catching them. I still want to play Dota once in a while, but I just don't feel like dealing with all of the potential frustration and consequentially mentally devolving into Chi Long Qua; so I just don't.

I'm also going to permanently be a little tilted about Valve singling out and banning Mason just because redditors hate him (since he's not hecking wholesome and calls people fucking retards). Maybe he deserved it for being such an ass? Probably not, since CCNC got away with even worse. Maybe he deserved it for trying to pay boosters to get out of permanent low-behavior? Probably not, because the second that the behavior system caused the same problem for Slacks, Valve instantly conceded that the system was broken and fixed the shitty system. I don't really give a shit about "muh hecking streamerino!", as much as I think the show being run (to some degree) by a Seattle-ite getting on his knees to suck the cock of redditors is really fucking gay.
 
Lammy said:
there's just not much in the way of "relaxed"/"fun" matches or new players
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i had a 20 game win streak with some friends where i played dark seer and he played bounty hunter. ion sphere on invis = people died in utter confusion. circa 2013
 
Null said:
but for some reason the game has completely lost that götterfunken that made it special.
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IMO a lot of the magic was lost when it was hit by a three strike combo of Valve releasing subpar spinoff media, subsequently abandoning all of them, then quietly giving up on Dota as an IP as if it's an intrinsic fault of the setting. 2018-2020 was the peak but it didn't stick, and with divesting from TI more and more it can't even brag about having the highest prize pool tournament anymore.
Null said:
But after a few years the oldfags get so good at the game and have so much of it trained to muscle memory, that it's no longer special to the oldfag or to new players.
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Skill inflation is a real thing. I don't know how it is in NA but on EU even down on Crusader you get people doing smoke rosh kills and buying BKBs, if new players are even joining the game I wonder what rank they're playing in.
 
IMO a lot of the magic was lost when it was hit by a three strike combo of Valve releasing subpar spinoff media, subsequently abandoning all of them, then quietly giving up on Dota as an IP as if it's an intrinsic fault of the setting.
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Ooo, I never thought about that, you know you are probably onto something there. Three bits of failed media when normally everything they touched turned to gold really did feel like it took the wind outta them.
At least the recent crownfall stuff really did feel like an attempt (though a milquetoast one) to try and show the fans that they "still care"

Ive said it multiple times, but the only way they get new players back in is by funding TI with hats again. Nothing advertises this game better than seeing 44 Billion dollar prize pool. That and I guess streamers for the NA crowd
 
i never had any interested in expanded lore like the TF2 comic shit, but seeing they added a bunch of anime shit to the game made it feel embarrassing to play. It'd be like if they added Madoka Magicka characters to Warhammer or something. Dota is nerd shit but it's like, american nerd shit. Marsi is a fucking skank and all those anime skins are trash.

EDIT: NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT IT'S THE FUCKING SKINS. Holy shit that's why you can INSTANTLY tell any old gameplay footage from new gameplay footage. I'm watching CLQ videos and I'm like, "wow this is ancient! His character isn't painted up like a fucking clown!"
 
I’ve recently started to hit the ranked ladder just to see how deep in the trench I’ve gotten in the meantime. So far only one person has wished me to uninstall Dota, but the rest of the team flamed him more for tilting.
 
Null said:
they added a bunch of anime shit to the game
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The only ones I can recall is the Drow and Wind arcana being made by some Korean porn artist but I can't think of anything else. They mostly add annoying furry shits like Hood and Kez.
But yes some sets like Lich and Dawn are too garish
Null said:
Marsi is a fucking skank
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You take that back right now, I used to spam her when she was a burst nightmare.
Her animations are great, I like mute characters in general, but her smug butterface in artwork makes me homicidal

Bring back nobling for our DX9 friends in the Philippines.
 
i can't even play her. I have like one game with Marsi because she fucking whistles and i cant fucking stand it. she's just straight anime TRASH. fucking TRASH. league of legends character design, fucking TRASH. literally doesn't look like the entire rest of the game. before they added the anime skins she just stood out like a sore thumb without a single character looking anything like her. compare CM/Lina to Marsi. They look like they're out of different products by different companies

you think shit like that doesn't matter you're fucking retarded. there's a reason why oldschool Dota had YouTube channels dedicated to just the "symphony of sounds" of a match. the special effects, the artistic continuity, the quality of the sound and ambiance, these things all matter and all make that spark. when you play Marvel Rivals, the sound design is so bad it matches League of Legends and Paladins, where you have characters saying random quips that sound unnatural and out of place, whereas Dota lines always sound like they belong in the game.

people don't know they appreciate these things but it does matter. anime had no place in dota and they fagged it up because some saudi gave gabe the good dicksuck.
 
Marci always bothered me just because her design doesn't really say much about her in motion, either for or against. Like I've never seen a character in so desperate need of some prop to hold or something more done with her hands. Handwraps, gauntlets, knuckledusters, anything that looks like she'd want to protect her hands or anything to help sell this fist-fighter character. With that whole level 1 adventurer look I feel like you could probably put a sword/ magic staff/bow/daggers in her hands and I don't think it'd look 'wrong' in the slightest which isn't really the best thing for a speedy brawler type
 
Null said:
i can't even play her. I have like one game with Marsi because she fucking whistles and i cant fucking stand it. she's just straight anime TRASH. fucking TRASH. league of legends character design, fucking TRASH. literally doesn't look like the entire rest of the game. before they added the anime skins she just stood out like a sore thumb without a single character looking anything like her. compare CM/Lina to Marsi. They look like they're out of different products by different companies

you think shit like that doesn't matter you're fucking retarded. there's a reason why oldschool Dota had YouTube channels dedicated to just the "symphony of sounds" of a match. the special effects, the artistic continuity, the quality of the sound and ambiance, these things all matter and all make that spark. when you play Marvel Rivals, the sound design is so bad it matches League of Legends and Paladins, where you have characters saying random quips that sound unnatural and out of place, whereas Dota lines always sound like they belong in the game.

people don't know they appreciate these things but it does matter. anime had no place in dota and they fagged it up because some saudi gave gabe the good dicksuck.
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To be fair though, in today's world it's hard to protect a game or series from the dreaded "Death of an Art Style". TF2 went through it too, Magic the Gathering, Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, if you want some newer IPs with a much faster clash of art styles look at For Honor during launch and the first year or two vs what it is now. The very first "lol so randumb" emote they added was every hero doing a penguin walk. Dota 2 could be looking much worse, but I fully see where you are coming from. Marci was probably an attempt to get the anime watchers to try Dota, and like League of Legends and Arcane, shoving the stuff from the series into the game did nothing to attract the anime watching normies.

You also reminded me of something, the stuff each hero says is unique and charming enough that it never gets on your nerves, unlike some voice lines in League. Less is more as they say and Skywrath going "As it is in my power." or something is all that needs to be said for a move command. In League the champions just spout random lore stuff or random bullshit at you for just right clicking the ground, I hate it. The most cringe example I can think of is Aatrox, who they reworked from a relatively silent and edgy bruiser/melee carry into an angry dude that screams everything he says. *Right click as Aatrox* -> "I AM NOT A KING, I AM NOT A GOD, I AM...WORSE...!"
 
Kotol said:
You also reminded me of something, the stuff each hero says is unique and charming enough that it never gets on your nerves, unlike some voice lines in League.
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Blizzard was good at this back in the olden days, Warcraft II and StarCraft, getting those little character barks just right. Years later I still like listening to the Wraith pilot do his Chuck Yeager drawl.
 
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