Dr. Who

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JamesFargo said:
It wouldn't be so bad, except the Time Lords are the least-interesting race this series has produced. Gallifrey has really only worked in one story ("Deadly Assassin"). Everything since then has been togas and techno-shite.

I'd be interested in exploring another side to them. Someone, I forget who, proposed that it be more like Gormanghast. Anyone who lives that long is going to have some kind of physical or mental abnormality. Gallifrey should be the most psychedlic planet we've ever seen.
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It's a production joke. Nothing too serious.
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The "Gallifrey" Big Finish series has been pretty interesting. (I won't say it's always been *good*, because it hasn't been...) But yeah, it's been interesting. (and for the most part, it predates BF going "woke")

JamesFargo said:
Hartnell had a double. (The Abbot of Amboise.) Troughton had Ramon Salamander. Nyssa met her twin in "Black Orchid", and I'm pretty sure Peri was mistaken for Queen Anne in the audios.
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This is all true. To be honest though, the only way I actually want to see Tennant come back is bringing back the metacrisis Doctor, and explicitly making him into the Valeyard. (It *almost* makes sense if you don't think about it too much.) Obviously you'd have to retcon the shit out of the "Timeless child" bullshit, but that isn't a bug... it's a feature.
 
UnKillShredDur said:
The "Gallifrey" Big Finish series has been pretty interesting. (I won't say it's always been *good*, because it hasn't been...) But yeah, it's been interesting. (and for the most part, it predates BF going "woke")
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I never finished Gallifrey but I did enjoy what I heard of it. I read somewhere that they were going for a West Wing vibe with it (which definitely dates when it began). I'm also a fan of Miles Richardson's take on Irving Braxiatel. I even picked up a bunch of Bernice Summerfield, which is where I'd say some of the protowokeness started, because he features heavily in them.

UnKillShredDur said:
To be honest though, the only way I actually want to see Tennant come back is bringing back the metacrisis Doctor, and explicitly making him into the Valeyard. (It *almost* makes sense if you don't think about it too much.) Obviously you'd have to retcon the shit out of the "Timeless child" bullshit, but that isn't a bug... it's a feature.
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I think it was Jay Exci who said that to truly embrace Who you first have to realize it's all really stupid. And really a stupid retcon like The Timeless Child deserves something bonkers to throw it out. The Timelord Victorious being some kind of test run for the Valeyard makes sense to me.

It could even incorporate the easy "the Master lied" excuse for the timeless child not being a thing. The Master knows more about the Valeyard than the Doctor does, and he cooked up a huge distraction to keep the Doctor away from realizing he was close to being the Valeyard. Why would the Master do that? The Doctor being evil would take all the fun out of the Master's life.

Is that as elegant as a sledgehammer to the face? Yes, but it gives the timeless child the respect it deserves.
 
DuranceVile said:
I think it was Jay Exci who said that to truly embrace Who you first have to realize it's all really stupid.
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It's a child's daydream.

Hartnell's TARDIS has a milk and tea dispenser. That, right there, puts an end to the notion that Doctor Who, if you think hard enough about it, somehow makes sense.

Moffat (and Chibnall) wanted it to be this sci-fi epic, to appeal to the U.S. market. That's not what the classic series was.
 
JamesFargo said:
It's a child's daydream.

Hartnell's TARDIS has a milk and tea dispenser. That, right there, puts an end to the notion that Doctor Who, if you think hard enough about it, somehow makes sense.

Moffat (and Chibnall) wanted it to be this sci-fi epic, to appeal to the U.S. market. That's not what the classic series was.
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It's a series that implicitly gives a writer a blank check to have any kind of story, setting, and characters you want. While he did a great job bringing the series back, I hated how RTD set everything on earth. I remember watching every new episode wondering when we were going to get some space stuff. Then we have post season 5 Moffat and there's a big pendulum swing in the bad other direction. We got his ridiculous Avengers Level convoluted plotlines and Impossible Girls. Don't get me started on how hard the wanking over River Song got. I'll admit though that as an ancient husk who actually read the Virgin New Adventures books, I immediately copped her as a serial-numbers-filed Benny.

Nick Briggs, current wokeness brainworms besides, I think gets why this series is the longest running sci-fi ever, and why people love it. The early Big Finish stuff was rough, but once they found their stride, they hit the voice of the classic series perfectly and were able to expand upon them with the switch to audio drama. One thing I do have a lot of gratitude to Moffat for was The Night of the Doctor. He didn't have to write an epilogue for Paul McGann, and he certainly didn't have to explicitly mention Charlie, C'Rizz, and Lucie. My jaw dropped when that happened, big nerd that I am. I read somewhere that Heaven Sent, the best episode of NuWho (maybe even the best episode of televised Who period?), was originally a script Moffat wrote for Big Finish. I thought that was pretty nifty.
 
JamesFargo said:
Moffat (and Chibnall) wanted it to be this sci-fi epic, to appeal to the U.S. market. That's not what the classic series was.
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It could be, but a lot of those epics have great heart at their core. Chibnall's Who is all flash and zero substance which is why people STILL can't pinpoint 13's personality, nor any of her iconic feats. Say what you will about Moffatt, but his characters had heart and presence (as did RTD's, arguably to a greater degree which is why the show took off the way it did). Chibnall's has neither of these, so it flounders as an epic and flops entirely as Classic Who.
 
I know it’s stupid to let fans affect your view on media but RTD fans have irreversibly damaged my view of his era beyond repair. I could write an entire essay why but it would go into mati territory and I’ve stopped caring at this point. Let’s just say I learned the hard way not to get into fandoms especially Tumblr ones.
 
JamesFargo said:
I guess I just don't vibe with Moffat fans.
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Series 5 is still my all time favorite of Nu-Who. I don't know if that makes me a "Moffat fan" or not, because I think he immediately shit the bed right after that. Series 2 with RTD was still hot garbage for the most part, and worse than almost everything that Moffat did after the fact.

Since I'm a fair fucker though, I will also say that RTD actually got better by the end. Series 4 was better than almost every other series of Nu-Who that isn't 5. (His last few specials after that mostly sucked though. I guess Waters of Mars was ok, but it wasn't that good.)

To be clear, Chinballs did worse than both RTD and Moffat put together.
 
Reject NuWho modernity and embrace tradition, join us Hinchcliffe + Holmes enjoyers.

Still enjoy the story about Paul Cornell's first experience with Who after hearing it was so scary from his friends. Young Paul gathered up his courage and turned the TV on, and it was the Brain of Morbius. That one got me pretty good as a kid too.
 
DuranceVile said:
Reject NuWho modernity and embrace tradition, join us Hinchcliffe + Holmes enjoyers.

Still enjoy the story about Paul Cornell's first experience with Who after hearing it was so scary from his friends. Young Paul gathered up his courage and turned the TV on, and it was the Brain of Morbius. That one got me pretty good as a kid too.
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It was the Zygons for me.
 
feral cat #6385 said:
It was the Zygons for me.
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I really liked Talons of Weng-Chiang which was sadly the last Hinchcliffe-produced episode. In general that entire team was great, at least as good as the Dick/Letts era. Of course people are all dass wayciss now about it probably.
 
AnOminous said:
I really liked Talons of Weng-Chiang which was sadly the last Hinchcliffe-produced episode. In general that entire team was great, at least as good as the Dick/Letts era. Of course people are all dass wayciss now about it probably.
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Surprisingly it's still available for streaming, but with a big disclaimer saying something about it being made in a less enlightened time or something of that sort.
 
AnOminous said:
I really liked Talons of Weng-Chiang which was sadly the last Hinchcliffe-produced episode. In general that entire team was great, at least as good as the Dick/Letts era. Of course people are all dass wayciss now about it probably.
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Pertwee/Baker who best who.

Tom's first three seasons are peak who. Even though his later seasons aren't as good they are still enjoyable. Can't say that about current who.
 
feral cat #6385 said:
Pertwee/Baker who best who.

Tom's first three seasons are peak who. Even though his later seasons aren't as good they are still enjoyable. Can't say that about current who.
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I unironically love The Horns of Nimon and I will cackle madly about dreams of conquest at anybody who disagrees. You can't say that isn't an amazing serial to sit down and watch with people in the right mindset.
 
DuranceVile said:
I unironically love The Horns of Nimon and I will cackle madly about dreams of conquest at anybody who disagrees. You can't say that isn't an amazing serial to sit down and watch with people in the right mindset.
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That season had a delighful amount of cheese. I have a soft spot for The Creature from the Pit. Yet that season also had City of Death and Shada which are legitimately good.
 
AnOminous said:
I really liked Talons of Weng-Chiang which was sadly the last Hinchcliffe-produced episode. In general that entire team was great, at least as good as the Dick/Letts era. Of course people are all dass wayciss now about it probably.
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Not probably. It and Tomb of the Cybermen are consistently called out by insufferable New Who fans that haven't even watched it.
 
DuranceVile said:
The last 6 episode I remember reading about sounded like it was one long virtue signal over how racist Lovecraft was. Wokeness won't let anything alone. Many such cases.

Edit: Looked it up, it was called the Lovecraft Invasion.
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And it was fucking awful and insufferably smug. One character literally goes on a rant about their gender/race/sexual identity and how people like it will take over the future and "conquer Lovecraft's hate". It was fucking unlistenable.
 
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