Dr. Who

[Kofi Drinka]

Colin Baker essentially destabilized the ratings singlehandedly, not his fault but he's the most inarguable.

Even if he's not that popular he's still an iconic Doctor. His outfit stands out and he has story lines people still care about today. The show wasn't in a good place but Baker wasn't the problem.

At least Davison's stint didn't actively wreck the Doctor

Davison did wreck the Doctor. He becomes a tour guide for his companions. He's upstaged by better actors while he sits back and looks bland. He has no colour or personality.

Btw speaking of I'm thinking of getting into Big Finish and am looking for a list of the good shit that isn't done by redditors. I want to listen to as much as possible of Hurt, McCoy, Colin Baker and Eccleston - obviously under the assumption that Hurt and Eccleston HAVE good material, I know Big Finish's best days are behind it - but I also want to cover the early "arcs" of Big Finish from their heyday. So if you guys have a list and recommendations for these doctors as well as ofc. piracy links i'd like to get dug in. I'd probably listen to all of McGann up to Dark Eyes, so what's the chronological order for that and when does that intersect with the main range? I know Spare Parts is a classic, so I'll make exception for that in my otherwise aversion to listening to anything with Davison (nothing against him I just find him boring), but is there an order for the Sixth Doctor's range that is all the good stuff and all the character development he has? And also I've heard the War Doctor stuff is way inferior to the War Master, but is any of it salvageable? I know apparently Eccleston's first range was crap and his follow ups improve

So is there a big list with links to all this shit in some kind of order and with a small review elsewhere in this thread? Or even on 4chan's /who/?

I would like to know the same thing. McGann has some good BF stuff when I listened to it years ago.

Where is the best place to find it without giving the BBC money?

I checked the free stuff they have on their website. The Doctors a niggerette and Master is a paki. What the hell happened?

 

[Fallen Preacher]

Where is the best place to find it without giving the BBC money?

I won't name it outright (don't bother to DM me) - I doubt it'll last through the end of the year. Shameful thing is, the site was dying ever since Jodie came on board and Faggy McNiggercutty killed a lot of participation on the site - many say it's because of the drop in ancillary quality of things like BF (with the BBC tickling things they shouldn't be); I say it's the back end forum drama between the liberals happy to steal from the BBC yet will lap up any shit without complaint they have to to keep Doctor Whom on the air and the conservatives who finally saw their favorite franchise get... BBC'd to death.

And the Paki as the Master was probably the LEAST egregious thing they have done; I put him on par with just under Missy who was under the Baker-era Master, and top of the list would be John Simm who was FUN!. Granted the list of Master actors is kinda a short one.

I don't want a Colin Baker slot, but he's still a lot of people's "worst doctor" for some reason. Even though he's more than redeemed himself in my eyes.

I can't say I hated Colin for one simple fact - my local PBS while growing up as soon as Davidson regenerated into Colin they went right back to Tom Baker episodes the following week so I never experienced him or McCoy until a decade after cancellation.

 

[Overly Serious]

Where is the best place to find it without giving the BBC money?

FWIW, Spotify now have a huge amount of the Big Finish Doctor Who catalogue available. It's not perfectly organised but if you know the one you want you should be able to find the "album" on there. Can't guarantee the BBC don't see some return on it though given the layers of Spotify and Big Finish whatever trickles through to them is probably small.

Davison did wreck the Doctor. He becomes a tour guide for his companions. He's upstaged by better actors while he sits back and looks bland. He has no colour or personality.

Although Davidson never got the backlash that Six did and therefore doesn't require the opportunity for redemption Colin Baker did, I'd say he also benefits from Big Finish and some of his best work is actually on the audios. King Maker is widely considered one of the best Big Finish audios and for good reason. If you want Five, Peri and Erimem (an audio-only companion) doing a Classic era comedy, it's well-worth a listen.

On another topic, who do people think was the companion who got the worst deal? And I mean how they were treated by events / the Doctor so no nominating Teegan for being Australian or Adric for being Adric. It's not a worst companion question, it's a worst treated. Donna Noble would be a contender for me - losing all her memories and being reverted to the person she was before she met the Doctor seemed particularly cruel. Peri having her brain replaced by an alien slug's also pretty horrible - though whether that actually happened or not is debatable. Just a bit of a question that occurred to me recently.

 

[Kofi Drinka]

Donna Noble would be a contender for me - losing all her memories and being reverted to the person she was before she met the Doctor seemed particularly cruel.

Katherine Tate is one of the most annoying people on the planet. If you take her back in time to any point in her life she's still just an annoying bitch. She was cast because she was being pushed for her unfunny comedy.

 

[Overly Serious]

Katherine Tate is one of the most annoying people on the planet. If you take her back in time to any point in her life she's still just an annoying bitch. She was cast because she was being pushed for her unfunny comedy.

Well whether you liked her or not (and I did), having the best years of your life suddenly taken away from you and reverted to someone you no longer are is a cruel thing. So who do you think was the worst treated companion (in-universe).

 

[Kofi Drinka]

Well whether you liked her or not (and I did), having the best years of your life suddenly taken away from you and reverted to someone you no longer are is a cruel thing. So who do you think was the worst treated companion (in-universe).

The ginger sluts boyfriend with Matt Smith. He bent over backwards for her and went above and beyond while she kept trying to cuck him.

 

[Overly Serious]

The ginger sluts boyfriend with Matt Smith. He bent over backwards for her and went above and beyond while she kept trying to cuck him.

Ironic. Amy is actually a contender on my list for having Rory foisted upon her. First the Doctor manipulates her into wanting Rory in Amy's Choice - having first shown Rory die gruesomely in her arms (Eleven had already worked out it was all an illusion but didn't tell them) and whilst she's still traumatised over seeing her childhood friend die, nudges, literally shoves, Rory to her to get them to trauma bond. Later, we see River Song is present as a childhood friend be the one to tell Amy that Rory fancies her and nudge her in his direction purely so that River Song can later be born. Both the Doctor and River Song actively manipulate them into being together. The Doctor takes them on extended trips together by themselves to create an environment that pushes her into a relationship with Rory. He manipulates her towards Rory again in The Girl Who Waited showing a younger Amy a future version of herself that is desperately lonely and who lost Rory.

And lets not forget that when Amy meets the Doctor she introduces Rory as a friend and Rory, fucking overrides her and says "boyfriend" to which she shrugs and says "sort of boyfriend".

Rory is every milksop guy who tries to friend a girl into dating him. Which he succeeds at largely due to trauma and inertia and the fact that Amy lives in the fucking middle of nowhere. She's literally a kissogram when we meet her and he's following her around like a fucking jealous puppy.

Yeah, I'm bumping Amy up onto my list for ending up with Rory.

 

[Kofi Drinka]

And lets not forget that when Amy meets the Doctor she introduces Rory as a friend and Rory, fucking overrides her and says "boyfriend" to which she shrugs and says "sort of boyfriend".

So she's at least fucking him. Which means they were involved pre doctor.

 

[Overly Serious]

So she's at least fucking him. Which means they were involved pre doctor.

And clearly doesn't consider him a boyfriend and says so to his face and in company. If a girl did that to you, you would not consider her your girlfriend nor would you have anybody to blame but yourself when she makes out with some other guy if you feel cheated on. I really dislike "Nice Guys" like Rory who pretend to be a girl's friend because they hope for sex. Be a good friend to the girl you're dating, yes. Think your friendship is transactional for sex - noooo.

 

[UnKillFill]

On another topic, who do people think was the companion who got the worst deal? And I mean how they were treated by events / the Doctor

Gotta be Marfa Jones. She spent her entire time in the Tardis being strung along by 10 and told she was inferior to the dumb chav that came before her, all while proving to be better, over and over again. The Doctor asks far more of her than most companions, including the bullshit with the Family of Blood. (good episodes, but what the Doctor put Martha through in it was bullshit. They could have hidden *anywhere*, but he took her to a place where she would have to be a servant and mistreated for being black, even though she was tasked with looking after him.)

Finally, after all she went through, she somehow gets stuck with Mickey, just because they were the only black characters on the show at the time... Even though she was already engaged to a doctor.

 

[Kofi Drinka]

And clearly doesn't consider him a boyfriend and says so to his face and in company. If a girl did that to you, you would not consider her your girlfriend nor would you have anybody to blame but yourself when she makes out with some other guy if you feel cheated on. I really dislike "Nice Guys" like Rory who pretend to be a girl's friend because they hope for sex. Be a good friend to the girl you're dating, yes. Think your friendship is transactional for sex - noooo.

It's not as simple as Rory chasing her around like a lost puppy and hoping it'll pay off with sex. She says "sort of boyfriend" which means she's stringing him along in some way. She's a slut and he's a simp nice guy. It's a bad combination but Amy is the one with all the power and she does say sort of boyfriend which encourages him.

He's getting sex if he's a sort of boyfriend. Even if it isn't often.

 

[Overly Serious]

Gotta be Marfa Jones. She spent her entire time in the Tardis being strung along by 10 and told she was inferior to the dumb chav that came before her, all while proving to be better, over and over again. The Doctor asks far more of her than most companions, including the bullshit with the Family of Blood. (good episodes, but what the Doctor put Martha through in it was bullshit. They could have hidden *anywhere*, but he took her to a place where she would have to be a servant and mistreated for being black, even though she was tasked with looking after him.)

Finally, after all she went through, she somehow gets stuck with Mickey, just because they were the only black characters on the show at the time... Even though she was already engaged to a doctor.

Gah! When you distil it down like that - especially getting saddled with the Tin Dog (so far as I can see because the writers thought 'they're both Black') - she really does come off the worst. It honestly never occurred to me that the Doctor could have hidden somewhere she'd have been far, far better treated than the Public School (Bong terminology meaning not a State school). But you're absolutely right. Also, being compared negatively to Rose by him is some serious insult.

I feel like Sarah Jane was very hard done by. She'd been with the Doctor for so long and done so much for him and then in the course of about ten minutes he tells her she has to leave because he's going back to Gallifrey, dumps her in Scotland and is gone. She takes it like a trooper but still...

It's not as simple as Rory chasing her around like a lost puppy and hoping it'll pay off with sex. She says "sort of boyfriend" which means she's stringing him along in some way. She's a slut and he's a simp nice guy. It's a bad combination but Amy is the one with all the power and she does say sort of boyfriend which encourages him.

He's getting sex if he's a sort of boyfriend. Even if it isn't often.

Dude. A man bursts out of a cake at his stag do and announces to him and all his friends and all his colleagues that his fiancee tried to snog him. And she flat out just describes him as a friend in front of others. Any emotional suffering from Rory's expectations are pretty much on him. But lets leave it at that. I'm more interested in other answers.

 

[12345]

On another topic, who do people think was the companion who got the worst deal? And I mean how they were treated by events / the Doctor so no nominating Teegan for being Australian or Adric for being Adric. It's not a worst companion question, it's a worst treated. Donna Noble would be a contender for me - losing all her memories and being reverted to the person she was before she met the Doctor seemed particularly cruel. Peri having her brain replaced by an alien slug's also pretty horrible - though whether that actually happened or not is debatable. Just a bit of a question that occurred to me recently.

Of the new ones I'm going to say Martha. It really felt like she was forced to fall in love with Ten, but he was in lurve with Rose. She was just too... pining for him, it didn't feel natural. She really felt like she was Betty in the old Archie comics, as much attention he gave her even as a companion. And then when he was human and she was the only one who had to watch him fall in love with a human woman, and them leaning into the racism she might have faced in that time period - you know back when they actually did this. Or maybe Astrid. And I know she technically didn't get the change to be a companion, and she had a great and wonderful life without The Doctor but Reinette spent her time pining over the doctor.

Basically ever companion after Rose because they all were pining for him and it just felt so - off, you know?

Old companions - wasn't there one that just got straight up abandoned on another planet somehow? (Admittedly my younger days watching were on PBS where they often mixed up the different series so much that I didn't even really know he regenerated until much later. I grew up watching Bewitched reruns and American soap operas so the same character with a change of face just made sense to me. That's all too much to say I might just be straight up mis-remembering. Maybe I saw someone get left behind, but then it got resolved later but I never saw the resolution.)

 

[Kofi Drinka]

Dude. A man bursts out of a cake at his stag do and announces to him and all his friends and all his colleagues that his fiancee tried to snog him. And she flat out just describes him as a friend in front of others. Any emotional suffering from Rory's expectations are pretty much on him. But lets leave it at that. I'm more interested in other answers.

You're not seeing it from both sides.

Of the new ones I'm going to say Martha. It really felt like she was forced to fall in love with Ten, but he was in lurve with Rose

Romance as part of the companion relationship is modern cancer. It should never have happened.

 

[Overly Serious]

Old companions - wasn't there one that just got straight up abandoned on another planet somehow?

Leela got left on Gallifrey I think, but she wanted to stay. I feel like you're right - there was another but I can't quite put my finger on it.

 

[Flexo]

And clearly doesn't consider him a boyfriend and says so to his face and in company. If a girl did that to you, you would not consider her your girlfriend nor would you have anybody to blame but yourself when she makes out with some other guy if you feel cheated on. I really dislike "Nice Guys" like Rory who pretend to be a girl's friend because they hope for sex. Be a good friend to the girl you're dating, yes. Think your friendship is transactional for sex - noooo.

Look if the girls want a friend, you know what guy friends do for each other? Hook 'em up. She doesn't have to sleep with him, but she could be a wingman to help him find a girl.

If the girl doesn't do that (or gets insanely jealous when he tries to date other women) then the guy isn't exactly the only one seeing the relationship as transactional.

Old companions - wasn't there one that just got straight up abandoned on another planet somehow? (Admittedly my younger days watching were on PBS where they often mixed up the different series so much that I didn't even really know he regenerated until much later. I grew up watching Bewitched reruns and American soap operas so the same character with a change of face just made sense to me. That's all too much to say I might just be straight up mis-remembering. Maybe I saw someone get left behind, but then it got resolved later but I never saw the resolution.)

Let's look at Jaime and Zoe at the end of the War Games...

They erase Zoe and Jamie's memories of travelling with the Doctor, and return them to the respective point in time when each of them first entered the TARDIS.​

 

[Quintex96]

Gonna go for a slightly obscure choice and say Adam Mitchell.

Adam gets brought along after the previous episode and is promptly abandoned by The Doctor and Rose to do his own thing, at which he gets a hole put in his head and sends information to the past via phonecall for him to use later. This selfish act is considered a big enough violation for him to be unceremoniously booted from the TARDIS, hole in head and all.

The very next episode Rose literally destroys reality by being selfish and is forgiven for it, Amy in her first adventure very nearly causes the destruction of a whole ship of people by acting on a hunch and is forgiven for it.

Adam got no chance to redeem himself, He messed up once and got the boot.

 

[Overly Serious]

Gonna go for a slightly obscure choice and say Adam Mitchell.

Adam gets brought along after the previous episode and is promptly abandoned by The Doctor and Rose to do his own thing, at which he gets a hole put in his head and sends information to the past via phonecall for him to use later. This selfish act is considered a big enough violation for him to be unceremoniously booted from the TARDIS, hole in head and all.

The very next episode Rose literally destroys reality by being selfish and is forgiven for it, Amy in her first adventure very nearly causes the destruction of a whole ship of people by acting on a hunch and is forgiven for it.

Adam got no chance to redeem himself, He messed up once and got the boot.

Yeah, but you see Adam was liked by Rose. His entire purpose was for RTD to have a momentary wrinkle in the Doctor and Rose shipping so that said wrinkle could be punished for getting in the way. He wasn't ejected for wanting to get the technical info - that's just the writer's cover. It was to show Rose was wrong for looking at someone else.

Agreed, though.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Does anyone have that convoluted graph showing all of the Doctors regens post-Timeless Child twist, post-bigeneration and post-Billie regen? I tried looking in this thread for it but can't find it

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Katherine Tate is one of the most annoying people on the planet. If you take her back in time to any point in her life she's still just an annoying bitch. She was cast because she was being pushed for her unfunny comedy.

That may be so, but she was the best companion in the show by a longshot that had a personally that went beyond "Wants to fuck the doctor", she matched his energy without drooling over him or making him drool over her.