Dr. Who

[UnKillFill]

Roger Delgado = Only Real Master

Change my mind.

I'm rather partial to the Alex Macqueen Master of Big Finish. His catch phrase is "Hello you" and he says it the exact same way Guru Larry does. He also looks like a supervillain...



He was original something of a "missing link" Master in between old and new who, going up against McCoy, and mostly McGann

Spoiler

But they recently confirmed that he's the regeneration after Beevers, which I guess would put him before Ainley, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

I was bummed that he got snubbed in the recent "8th Doctor vs a bunch of masters" set of Ravenous

Spoiler

Although he does technically show up in it at the end with no lines.

But it looks like he's going to be in that upcoming masterful boxset.

 

[Buster O'Keefe]

No. And you are all faggots. Roger Delgado is the only Master.

Spoiler: Full, bad ass name

Roger Caesar Marius Bernard de Delgado Torres Castillo de Roberto

 

[Overly Serious]

I trend towards Classic Who ALOT more. Like I could just throw a dart at a random serial an be fine it has that classic who charm

*Doctor Venture throws dart. Dart lands on Ghost Light.*

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

Unsurprisingly, I love Simms given he was my first master. Few people can actually sell a villain that just loves being evil without being conflicted or misunderstood

As for Missy, I imagine this will be unpopular in this thread, but despite how much I bitch about disliking woke culture I actually did like Missy a lot.

I will be the first to admit Moffat had a lot of questionable woke moments, and I know he has a lot of haters, but I do think Moffat was, in the end, a fanboy of Doctor Who and it shows, Missy felt like a psychopathic Mary Poppins.

Michelle Gomez didn't feel like she was chosen because "it was time for a woman", and she did a fantastic job against Capaldi's doctor. Contrast Jodie Whittaker who seems to be doing a bad impression of David Tennant and only took the role because of feminism.

The current master feels like he was chosen more becuase "first female master" was taken so they went with a minority to score diversity points.

 

[Iron Hamster]

I didn't like Missy at first but she grew on me. Was Alex Kingston ever offered to play the Doctor? I would have thought she'd have been the first choice seeing how the series went.

 

[Wärring Ornac]

Unsurprisingly, I love Simms given he was my first master. Few people can actually sell a villain that just loves being evil without being conflicted or misunderstood

As for Missy, I imagine this will be unpopular in this thread, but despite how much I bitch about disliking woke culture I actually did like Missy a lot.

I will be the first to admit Moffat had a lot of questionable woke moments, and I know he has a lot of haters, but I do think Moffat was, in the end, a fanboy of Doctor Who and it shows, Missy feel like a psychopathic Mary Poppins.

Michelle Gomez didn't feel like she was chosen because "it was time for a woman", and she did a fantastic job against Capaldi's doctor. Contrast Jodie Whittaker who seems to be doing a bad impression of David Tennant and only took the role because of feminism.

The current master feels like he was chosen more becuase "first female master" was taken so they went with a minority to score diversity points.

If it weren't for the whole "Dalek knows mercy" shit, she would've got away with killing Clara

And for that, she's good to me

 

[Mr. 0]

Spoiler

But they recently confirmed that he's the regeneration after Beevers, which I guess would put him before Ainley, and I'm not sure how I feel about that.

Spoiler

Big Finish claims that Anthony Ainley was both after and before Beevers; an early monthly story (Dust Breeding) had him talk about how he ditched the Anthony Ainley body after getting into trouble and reverted back to Geoffrey Beevers. So Alex Macqueen technically still comes after Anthony Ainley.

Also Gordon Tipple is the only Master so die @AnOminous

I'm one of those people who liked John Simm's more subdued performance as the Master in the Twelfth Doctor era than his over-the-top crazy in the Tenth's.

 

[Overly Serious]

I used to be a huge fan of Doctor Who. Both Classic and NuWho. Whilst I wasn't enamoured of the idea of a female Doctor I wasn't massively against it. I viewed it as more tiresome than terrible and I had really liked Jodie Whittaker in things I'd seen her in - the St. Trinians movie, Four Lions, Broadchurch. She's a good actress and I thought was good at comedy.

But she's proved awful. There was meta stuff like saying she'd never watched Doctor Who and saying how she wanted to use the part to provide a role-model for women. (Aside: I went to the 50 years special at the cinema and saw loads of girls dressed as the Eleventh or Tenth Doctor along with a smattering of Classic Doctors including an absolutely brilliant one who looked about sixteen and had a spot on Fourth Doctor right down to the sixteen foot scarf. None of them seemed to think in terms of Us. vs. Them with men and woman clearly having no problem seeing the Doctor as a role model already). But more importantly were the actual episodes themselves. Half of it is the infantilised and preachy way she plays the character - slow on the uptake but always ready to scold someone. Seriously, they should rename her character the Judge. Are we sure this incarnation isn't actually the Valeyard?

The other half is the writing. I haven't seen all the episodes and I'm no longer watching it. But it was sexist, dumb and self-congratulatory. And then on top of that you add the political messaging. I honestly hoped they just wouldn't renew DW this time around so that this Doctor and writing crew could be put away until the people involved had moved on and it could come back in a better form some other day. That would suck for the cast and crew - especially the crew who have undoubtedly worked hard (I'm less sure how hard the cast have worked). But even the cast, frankly, are better than this. The writing is atrocious and occasionally an actor will manage to battle their way through it effectively (the girl playing the victim in the Christmas Hentai episode was really good despite that episode exemplifying everything wrong with the current DW) but generally it's a lost cause the moment the printer has finished spitting out the final page.

Sorry - complete rant with no value. I just had to vent.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

Whilst I wasn't enamoured of the idea of a female Doctor I wasn't massively against it. I viewed it as more tiresome than terrible and I had really liked Jodie Whittaker in things I'd seen her in - the St. Trinians movie, Four Lions, Broadchurch. She's a good actress and I thought was good at comedy.

YANA.

I would like to add that even if you don't mind the doctor being a woman, you have to admit it was a wasted opportunity. Honestly, this gender change was done so poorly even people that wanted a female doctor, for non-SJW reasons, were also disappointed.

I personally wasn't sure, but I got curious about how the doctor would've reacted about being female, which should've been a big part of the plot, as contrary to what SJWs think, it's really not a small change.

Especially not for Simm's master who was a notorious misogynist. I think that's something Missy did much better, we saw Simm's master trying to make up. Michelle made Missy feel like a man that was still getting used to the idea with her constant "hello fellow girl" comments to Clara and Osgood. Even her choice of clothes made you think that the master was so detached with how women actually behaved that he ended up dressing like a British nanny.

But the doctor's take was a huge letdown. Once he turned into a woman she was already super woke as if she had been like that since forever, so we didn't even get that fun part of seeing her reaction. Instead of "let's explore the doctor dealing with a woman" which could've been fun to watch, they went with "she is much better because she has a vagina."

In the end, she is honestly just a bad copy of Tennant.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Honestly even without the Woke Stuff by the end of the Clara stuff the show was fucking garbage.

Clara and Arya Stark were so painful to go through and that season's finale made me quit watching.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

Clara and Arya Stark were so painful to go through and that season's finale made me quit watching.

I think Bill Pots was even worse, she was super plain and her only personality trait was that she was a lesbian.

I stayed throughout the whole 12th doctor era because I loved Capaldi's doctor, he sincerely had some of the best episodes of the show. But I have to agree I didn't like much of his supporting cast at all.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I think Bill Pots was even worse, she was super plain and her only personality trait was that she was a lesbian.

I didn't see Bill Pots, I heard about it..but the entire Ayra Stark storyline from start to finish was absolutely groan worthy and the ending was insulting, her shitty immortal ass should have gotten thrown into a black hole, I legit wanted to quit watching after the episode she had that stupid "I AM SO OLD I FORGOT MY NAME" bullshit.

 

[Overly Serious]

YANA.

Heh! That made me chuckle.

I would like to add that even if you don't mind the doctor being a woman, you have to admit it was a wasted opportunity. Honestly, this gender change was done so poorly even people that wanted a female doctor, for non-SJW reasons, were also disappointed.

I personally wasn't sure, but I got curious about how the doctor would react to be female, which should've been a big part of the plot, as contrary to what SJWs think, it's really not a small change.

Especially not for Simm's master who was a notorious misogynist. I think that's something Missy did much better, we saw Simm's master trying to make up. Michelle made Missy feel like a man that was still getting used to the idea with her constant "hello fellow girl" comments to Clara and Osgood. Even her choice of clothes made you think that the master was so detached with how women actually behaved that he ended up dressing like a British nanny.

Couldn't agree more with you about Simm's master / and Missy. I wasn't the biggest fan of the Twelth Doctor episodes although they had some good stuff and I really like Capaldi. But I really liked the concept of the Master and Missy meeting and their interaction.

As to the Doctor being female, I think what you're saying would also be better than what we got but I personally would go the other direction. Instead of Thirteen (unlucky for us) suddenly seeing her face and going "Yes!" in joy at being female, I'd have preferred a frustrated "Still not ginger!" and then play everything else absolutely the same. My biggest worry with the female Doctor when announced was more Moffat style pandering. Which we got. I feel the Doctor shouldn't really be all that fussed about male vs. female anyway. Recall that scene in the Christmas special where the Doctor doesn't notice that Clara is old. I mean it's completely over-egged in how they do it but I like the essential concept of it being something he is aware of visually but just doesn't actually think about. Or Tom Baker's Doctor to the villainess in City of Death: "You're a beautiful woman... probably." He's just not that preoccupied with these things. They could have played a female Doctor like that and it would have made a better social point than all their "I've had an upgrade" crap. But either of our approaches would have worked, I think.

I think Bill Pots was even worse, she was super plain and her only personality trait was that she was a lesbian.

I stayed throughout the whole 12th doctor era because I loved Capaldi's doctor, he sincerely had some of the best episodes of the show. But I have to agree I didn't like much of his supporting cast at all.

I didn't see Bill Pots, I heard about it..but the entire Ayra Stark storyline from start to finish was absolutely groan worthy and the ending was insulting, her shitty immortal ass should have gotten thrown into a black hole, I legit wanted to quit watching after the episode she had that stupid "I AM SO OLD I FORGOT MY NAME" bullshit.

The fundamental thing wrong with the Maisie Williams / Me arc was that they didn't make her a villain. They started down that route and she'd have made a pretty good villain, imo. Have her origin be the same as this interesting and imaginative Viking girl. Then by the time you get to 18th Century England where she has that whole library of her diaries and she's reading this tragic entry about her children dying in the plague and doesn't even remember she'd had them - this is cool stuff. We get to see an immortal human being with finite memory changing with the years into something genuinely scary. Maisie Williams has the physical characteristics to play such an unsettling character - ordinary but also very distinctive looking. If they'd let that arc continue I think it would have been really good. And you're really only have to tweak a little bit to make it work - you could still have Twelve going through the castle-confessional (an episode I really liked, by the way), you could still have her on Gallifrey. You could still have Clara and her meet. But change all those scenes and meetings to be adversarial. As a villain that the Doctor himself created, his sense of responsibility for her crimes would be an additional interesting aspect to his opposing her.

As to Bill, my first introduction to her was a hyper-woke girlfriend of a friend telling me: "Oh, the new companion's great. She's a queer person of colour and she keeps calling the Doctor out on his bullshit". Not a great start. I mean, I would have liked it if the person had described something about who she was rather than a check box list of things they approved. Bill turned out not to be as bad as that first impression. The actress is fine and there were some good elements in that series. I genuinely thought the Cyberman arc was very well done. But the all-powerful puddle that fell in love with her was stupid and annoying as Hell. And she got used as a foil for things like that Christmas episode which made the First Doctor out to be some Victorian sexist when he really wasn't.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

I feel the Doctor shouldn't really be all that fussed about male vs. female anyway.

For sure, though I do remember the 11th doctor was scared for a second when he thought he had regenerated into a girl, so I think making a fuzz as a reaction was also possible.

But to clarify, I'm not saying the focus of the show should've derailed into the doctor being a woman. We're watching the show to watch him have space-tome adventures after all. To be perfectly clear I didn't want the show to derail into a fetish show, but I guess I did expect they would seize the chance to do something with it, maybe a joke or two before moving on.

I agree it really shouldn't have mattered in the long run.

I get that you likely fear that the gender thing would derail the show as it does now, and yes it's likely that he wouldn't have cared at all, and I don't disagree, but my point is that if nothing would really change, then making him a woman is entirely pointless. Making him a woman needed some kind of story purpose besides "It's time for a woman to take the role!"

Him not caring at all is not mutually exclusive of it not mattering.

Honestly, even the doctor being indifferent to it would've been fun to explore. I could see one of is companions scolding him about him not caring about it all in embarrassing social situations everyone else takes for granted. Say, I could imagine a funny scene of him, now her, messing up her makeup like a clown, and not caring at all about it, only for a companion like Amy Pond forcing her to do it right.

Out of fear of repeating myself, I think the master's change to Missy did have a point. The master was actually a misogynist, so seeing him now being forced to be a woman was actually something that made sense to explore.

But with the 13th doctor? What was the point?

tl;dr instead of having fun with the idea they just wasted it to score woke points.

 

[Buster O'Keefe]

I would like to add that even if you don't mind the doctor being a woman, you have to admit it was a wasted opportunity. Honestly, this gender change was done so poorly even people that wanted a female doctor, for non-SJW reasons, were also disappointed.

The way the character is styled is also a joke: she is dressed like some sexless, NB frump. For fuck sake, if the doc is a woman, let her be a bit womanly once in a while, show off a few curves and ditch those hideous boots. Look at the obvious precedent: Romana I was stylish AF. (Lets not mention Lalla Ward's schoolgirl get up) The casino-themed scene was a perfect opportunity, but for some reason the stylists went for the Wee Jimmy Cranky look.

 

[Sable]

Finally watched the episode.

It wasn't as bad as some of the worst ones of the last season, it had some interesting ideas but it wasn't executed brilliantly.

Regular levels of BBC special effects failure, requisite Doctor mentioning being a woman is better. Some plot issues too - Ryan having to make up reasons for his absence to his friends (or Yaz to the police man) makes perfect sense, except they've got a damn time machine so it wouldn't matter.

There was the first TV use of the Tissue Compressor in ages, which was neat I guess. Ryan was teamed up with Yaz for once, and they got to actually talk about stuff. Stephen Fry, (albeit criminally wasted Stephen Fry). I like that there's the Master again, but there's not been enough about him yet to make him distinct from other iterations of him. Not sold on the actor yet, but he's not been given much to do.

Plot is kind of spy-ish, fits the theme.

I dunno, 4 or 5/10? It's been so long since I've seen an episode I really liked, I've got nothing to compare it to.

 

[Iron Hamster]

The way the character is styled is also a joke: she is dressed like some sexless, NB frump. For fuck sake, if the doc is a woman, let her be a bit womanly once in a while, show off a few curves and ditch those hideous boots. Look at the obvious precedent: Romana I was stylish AF. (Lets not mention Lalla Ward's schoolgirl get up) The casino-themed scene was a perfect opportunity, but for some reason the stylists went for the Wee Jimmy Cranky look.

She looks homeless. I guess technically the Doctor is but not there intention.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

She looks homeless. I guess technically the Doctor is but not there intention.

The joke when they first announced her costume was that she looked like Charlize Theron's character from Arrested Development. Then Jodie Whittaker started to play the Doctor like Charlize Theron's character and it stopped being a joke and instead became a sad testament to modern feminism.

 

[The 3rd Hooligan]

13th would work better as a prelude for Valeyard as genderbend regenerations before hell bent were something not really natural.

Have her start innocent but make her more erratic as the time goes on.

I dunno. So far she seems like a weak 10 whom im not even a huge fan in the first place. (Probably because 9th was my favorite and he deserves better than Rose)

 

[Standardized Profile]

The joke when they first announced her costume was that she looked like Charlize Theron's character from Arrested Development. Then Jodie Whittaker started to play the Doctor like Charlize Theron's character and it stopped being a joke and instead became a sad testament to modern feminism.

Doctor F