Dr. Who

[SnowBall]

I remember Tumblrinas seething over Amy because she was an attractive white woman who wore sexy outfits. They constantly shrieked about her, calling her a whore and saying that she existed solely as male gaze. They also complained that she dressed too unrealistically compared to Rose and Martha, making it obvious they only approved of female characters that are fully covered up. As I said earlier in the thread the actress chose her outfit and loved dressing the part. Of course the Tumblrina crowd would get mad and move goal posts every time that got brought up. They also hated River Song for that exact same reason and complained about her outfit and cleavage. Which is hilarious because Alex Kingston is a middle aged woman and you would think they would love seeing a woman her age being cast in a sexy role.

The whole thing was like watching an awkward unpopular girl in middle school hissing “slut” every time an attractive cheer leader passed by them.

 

[feral cat #6385]

Ok, @Overly Serious, fair points and agree with most of the rest of your post except...



I'll admit I'm a casual fan, but have to question this. Just for one example, Troughton played the recorder, which neither Hartnall nor Pertwee did. Pertwee was the "action" doctor who knew martial arts, which neither 1 nor 2 demonstrated. True, Tom Baker may have had the most drastic change between them, but the previous ones still had changes. I mean just watch the 3 doctors for example.

SFDebris talks about the behind-the-scenes changes (which seemed designed around Troughton being a different character) here in part 1:

Doctor Who: Power of the Daleks

Doctor Who Reviews

sfdebris.com

Um... she made out with the Doctor the day before her wedding. I don't know much about meatbag rituals, but I'm pretty sure an engagement entitles you to an expectation that the other person won't be snogging people that aren't you.

Regenerations are used to soft reboot the show. Each actor brings a different spin on the character.

Hartnell went from a Doctor Smith type of character to a hero.

Troughton was a likeable cosmic hobo.

Pertwee played the role straighter than its ever been played.

And Tom Baker just took the part and made a Doctor all others would be measured against. Robot, his intro story really shows how a different a Doctor he was over Pertwee. He takes a bog standard Pertwee story and takes the piss out of it.

Um... she made out with the Doctor the day before her wedding. I don't know much about meatbag rituals, but I'm pretty sure an engagement entitles you to an expectation that the other person won't be snogging people that aren't you.

Maybe Amy was just a giant whore who liked to sleep with guys she barely knew. Shocking that such a woke fanbase would slut shame her.

 

[Flexo]

Interesting link which I will watch and yes, I concede there's some level of it being a different character. But they didn't know what they were doing with the first couple of regenerations at all. Yes, Troughton started adding his own little spin on things and playing the recorder but it's nothing like the tradition of later regenerations where we all wait to see what personality the new Doctor is going to have. Tom Baker changed the game. He's not my favourite Doctor but he was a fundamental change in how the Doctor was developed thereafter.

That I'll grant, but also keep in mind the times: this was an entirely new show concept, that you could change the actors but keep the character. Especially given that early ratings were mediocre for the show, they were taking a big risk just pulling off this scifi idea, of course they wouldn't want to risk it further by having a complete divergence in the character. By the time they have done it twice and the show proved to have some staying power - then you can afford to take more chances in having a more divergent character.

Or to use a metaphor: you keep it steady and level taking off. Once the plane is in the air, then you do fancy tricks.

Maybe Amy was just a giant whore who liked to sleep with guys she barely knew. Shocking that such a woke fanbase would slut shame her.

While Karen Gillian totally makes me question my robosexuality (and she is a complete sweetheart in real life), Amy could be a real bitch once in awhile. Maybe I'll notice it differently when I finally watch more of 9 & 10, but she seems to be the start of the Who current standard of "women can do no wrong."

 

[feral cat #6385]

That I'll grant, but also keep in mind the times: this was an entirely new show concept, that you could change the actors but keep the character. Especially given that early ratings were mediocre for the show, they were taking a big risk just pulling off this scifi idea, of course they wouldn't want to risk it further by having a complete divergence in the character. By the time they have done it twice and the show proved to have some staying power - then you can afford to take more chances in having a more divergent character.

Or to use a metaphor: you keep it steady and level taking off. Once the plane is in the air, then you do fancy tricks.


While Karen Gillian totally makes me question my robosexuality (and she is a complete sweetheart in real life), Amy could be a real bitch once in awhile. Maybe I'll notice it differently when I finally watch more of 9 & 10, but she seems to be the start of the Who current standard of "women can do no wrong."

Come to think of it. Doctor Who has never had a companion that was a raging whore. The new production team should fix that. I want to see a companion that blows cybermen and has tenticle sex with the mutants inside the Dalek casing.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

Apart of me wishes Class would've been successful... so that it would've been a containment for their crap, and they wouldn't be ruining Doctor Who. Similar to how Torchwood was the place for all the adult stories they couldn't put in Doctor Who. (Except Torchwood was good)

I was hoping something similar in comics when Vertigo went all hyperwoke. But the painful lesson there and here is that these are never containments, they're just bridgeheads.

 

[Flexo]

Come to think of it. Doctor Who has never had a companion that was a raging whore. The new production team should fix that. I want to see a companion that blows cybermen and has tenticle sex with the mutants inside the Dalek casing.

That wasn't jo?

 

[feral cat #6385]

That wasn't jo?
View attachment 1108698

You might have a point. She did take off with that Jones guy pretty quickly... And there's no doubt the 3rd Doctor tapped that.

 

[UnKillFill]

Yeah, yeah, But as I said, they were seething about her right at the start. I'll tell you what I saw which was a woman say someone isn't their boyfriend and for him to literally correct her and tell her she's wrong in front of someone. THAT sent them on their hate-train against Amy because they all identified with the guy basically friending her into a relationship and acting entitled. Nobody should want to be that guy. The wedding? Sure - but play it only slightly differently and it's her dream guy and lifelong crush finally arriving just as she's about to settle for someone she's never really loved. And that's what Rory was at the start - someone she'd never been really in love with but was there in her little village and who she sort of kind of ended up in a relationship with. That changed radically later on in the season at which point all the Gallifrey Base incels started praising the new development and being happy again. In particular I remember the Amy's Choice episode where the Doctor manipulates her into a more committed relationship with Rory. It's one of my least favourite episodes for that reason. This is the one where an hallucinogenic parasite infests the ship and they have to work out which reality is true - the little village with the aliens or trapped on a dying TARDIS around a frozen star. At the end she literally sees Rory disintegrate before her eyes in an especially gruesome fashion and when they all recover (the Doctor first), the Doctor nudges Rory to be there when she wakes up. It's strongly implied in the episode that the Doctor worked out both were hallucinations early on but played it out to bring Amy and Rory together. I'm sorry but traumatically seeing a partner die before you and then being nudged into intimacy with them when they're suddenly restored, that's not a good basis for romance. It's fucking psychological manipulation. Gallifrey Base loved it. And from then on the writers rarely missed a chance to tell us how deeply in love Amy and Rory (incel viewpoint character) were. Rory did get better and I liked him more at the end of the season. But gods did they hate her as an independent woman.

I won't speak for 'incels' on a site I've never heard of before, but I will speak for me...

Amy was kind of a bitch from the very beginning (And yeah, kissing Eleven the day before her wedding is a fairly major strike against her imho...) but I still kind of liked her at first because Series 5 as a whole was really good (It's still my favorite Series of New Who as a whole, closely followed by Series 4.)

Series 6... was *not* as good, but Karen Gillan is still pretty hot.

So yeah, I didn't actually *hate* Amy until the beginning of Series 7, when she left her husband *offscreen* for shitty reasons.
Amy: "I know Rory wants kids (something he's never actually expressed on screen after, or even before, I randomly said that he did,) and because of *something* the crazy anti-Doctor church lady did to me to make River Song, I can't have kids anymore, (also never actually shown on screen before I randomly mentioned it...) Nevermind the fact that we actually already *had* a kid together at this point, and while we didn't get to "raise" her, we did at least get to be her friend growing up together because of timey-wimey, and the two of us even *know* this at this point in time. And so, without even *talking* to Rory about it, I'm going to "set him free," and dump his stupid ass without even telling him why I'm doing it... even while *knowing* that the guy has already *literally* waited some *thousands* of years for me.
Call me an incel if you want, but fuck (not literally) any woman who would treat a guy who is as clearly awesome as Rory is (By the end of Series 6 at least, ok yeah he is kind of a butt monkey for most of Series 5, but he got a LOT better by series 7) like that.

 

[Maamtis]

That I'll grant, but also keep in mind the times: this was an entirely new show concept, that you could change the actors but keep the character. Especially given that early ratings were mediocre for the show, they were taking a big risk just pulling off this scifi idea, of course they wouldn't want to risk it further by having a complete divergence in the character. By the time they have done it twice and the show proved to have some staying power - then you can afford to take more chances in having a more divergent character.

Or to use a metaphor: you keep it steady and level taking off. Once the plane is in the air, then you do fancy tricks.


While Karen Gillian totally makes me question my robosexuality (and she is a complete sweetheart in real life), Amy could be a real bitch once in awhile. Maybe I'll notice it differently when I finally watch more of 9 & 10, but she seems to be the start of the Who current standard of "women can do no wrong."

Glad to hear that about Karen. I've loved her in Doctor Who, MCU and especially Jumanji. Her reply to Jack Black's character asking her if she wanted to see him/her peeing in that movie was perfectly delivered.

I won't speak for 'incels' on a site I've never heard of before, but I will speak for me...

Amy was kind of a bitch from the very beginning (And yeah, kissing Eleven the day before her wedding is a fairly major strike against her imho...) but I still kind of liked her at first because Series 5 as a whole was really good (It's still my favorite Series of New Who as a whole, closely followed by Series 4.)

Series 6... was *not* as good, but Karen Gillan is still pretty hot.

So yeah, I didn't actually *hate* Amy until the beginning of Series 7, when she left her husband *offscreen* for shitty reasons.
Amy: "I know Rory wants kids (something he's never actually expressed on screen after, or even before, I randomly said that he did,) and because of *something* the crazy anti-Doctor church lady did to me to make River Song, I can't have kids anymore, (also never actually shown on screen before I randomly mentioned it...) Nevermind the fact that we actually already *had* a kid together at this point, and while we didn't get to "raise" her, we did at least get to be her friend growing up together because of timey-wimey, and the two of us even *know* this at this point in time. And so, without even *talking* to Rory about it, I'm going to "set him free," and dump his stupid ass without even telling him why I'm doing it... even while *knowing* that the guy has already *literally* waited some *thousands* of years for me.
Call me an incel if you want, but fuck (not literally) any woman who would treat a guy who is as clearly awesome as Rory is (By the end of Series 6 at least, ok yeah he is kind of a butt monkey for most of Series 5, but he got a LOT better by series 7) like that.

At first I thought Rory was gonna get what I like to call Mickyzoned but he actually turns into a total badass as the series went on. I suppose Micky did too but that was long after Rose already dumped his arse.

 

[Overly Serious]

That I'll grant, but also keep in mind the times: this was an entirely new show concept, that you could change the actors but keep the character. Especially given that early ratings were mediocre for the show, they were taking a big risk just pulling off this scifi idea, of course they wouldn't want to risk it further by having a complete divergence in the character. By the time they have done it twice and the show proved to have some staying power - then you can afford to take more chances in having a more divergent character.

Or to use a metaphor: you keep it steady and level taking off. Once the plane is in the air, then you do fancy tricks.

It sounds like you're saying what I'm saying but giving a different explanation. I say they hadn't really thought of it that way before and you say they thought of it but it was too risky that early on. I think I'm right because I really do think that before they fleshed out what the Time Lords actually were and because they talked about giving someone a new face and such the idea of regeneration as we know it today just wasn't there. I think Tom Baker's utter Tom Bakerness really accelerated the notion of personality change drastically. But this not being Gallfrey Base we don't have to sperg endlessly about who is right. Either of us actually could be.

While Karen Gillian totally makes me question my robosexuality (and she is a complete sweetheart in real life), Amy could be a real bitch once in awhile. Maybe I'll notice it differently when I finally watch more of 9 & 10, but she seems to be the start of the Who current standard of "women can do no wrong."

She was because for all RTD's melodramatic tendencies he could write female characters who were people first, women second. Moffat was good at clever plotting (at least at the start) and could write some decent dialogue most days, but has this absolute blindspot with women. He ALWAYS put them on a big pedestal and thought that having them mock the men around them showed what an ally he was to women. I don't think it's him being woke, I think it's some kind of sexual compulsion with him - he just has to show how much he respects women at every opportunity and they all have to be super special. Seriously - check out the Who episodes he was a writer on and tell me how many of them don't have an idealised, better than the men female character: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0595590/ . From The Return of Doctor Mysterio to The Doctor Dances, there's something about the female characters or the role they play that I can't quite put my finger on but it runs through nearly all of them.

Come to think of it. Doctor Who has never had a companion that was a raging whore. The new production team should fix that. I want to see a companion that blows cybermen and has tenticle sex with the mutants inside the Dalek casing.

Jack Harkness reporting for duty. Travelled with Doctor in multiple episodes therefore a companion. And I'm pretty sure he qualifies on the raging whore front, too.

I won't speak for 'incels' on a site I've never heard of before, but I will speak for me...

Amy was kind of a bitch from the very beginning (And yeah, kissing Eleven the day before her wedding is a fairly major strike against her imho...) but I still kind of liked her at first because Series 5 as a whole was really good (It's still my favorite Series of New Who as a whole, closely followed by Series 4.)

Series 6... was *not* as good, but Karen Gillan is still pretty hot.

So yeah, I didn't actually *hate* Amy until the beginning of Series 7, when she left her husband *offscreen* for shitty reasons.
Amy: "I know Rory wants kids (something he's never actually expressed on screen after, or even before, I randomly said that he did,) and because of *something* the crazy anti-Doctor church lady did to me to make River Song, I can't have kids anymore, (also never actually shown on screen before I randomly mentioned it...) Nevermind the fact that we actually already *had* a kid together at this point, and while we didn't get to "raise" her, we did at least get to be her friend growing up together because of timey-wimey, and the two of us even *know* this at this point in time. And so, without even *talking* to Rory about it, I'm going to "set him free," and dump his stupid ass without even telling him why I'm doing it... even while *knowing* that the guy has already *literally* waited some *thousands* of years for me.
Call me an incel if you want, but fuck (not literally) any woman who would treat a guy who is as clearly awesome as Rory is (By the end of Series 6 at least, ok yeah he is kind of a butt monkey for most of Series 5, but he got a LOT better by series 7) like that.

I agree with you. As I said, Rory improved a lot later on and then I was happier about it. What I didn't like was early Rory where he was basically Nice Guy'ing Amy to Death and then the GB mob get all angry with Karen for showing any signs of getting out of what was plainly an inertia-driven drift into a marriage. Please keep in mind what I said was that they all went on their hate tirade from the first episode when he corrected her about him being her boyfriend.

At first I thought Rory was gonna get what I like to call Mickyzoned but he actually turns into a total badass as the series went on. I suppose Micky did too but that was long after Rose already dumped his arse.

Difference with Rory is you could see him growing into his new role and the actor himself is pretty good and pulled it off. Mickey went from being the Tin Dog to John Connor off-screen and I was especially annoyed with the way they suddenly paired him off with Martha out of the blue. I actually liked Martha and last we saw of her she was engaged to an intelligent doctor who seemed to have a lot in common with her. Whereas I can't see anything she had in common with Mickey other than skin colour and I honestly wondered if that was why the writers thought of putting them together.

EDIT: So how are the ratings for this season? Are they as bad as the YouTubers are saying?

 

[Jarolleon]

There are some things I care about the soundtrack to... (Mostly Final Fantasy games...) But I honestly can not bring myself to give a damn about doctor who music...

The goofy synth stuff from 80's Who and modernist experimentation from the BBC radiophonic workshop is occasionally good.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

EDIT: So how are the ratings for this season? Are they as bad as the YouTubers are saying?

They're trending back down to normal. Jodie had a very good first season, ratings-wise. Her second season ratings are back to where they were during Smith and Capaldi's time. That said, we don't know where the bottom is. If she dips consistently below five million UK viewers, it will represent a massive failure of Chiball and co. to maintain the brand.

 

[Mr. 0]

7. The Diary of River Song Series 07 - The Diary of River Song - Big Finish

Award-winning, full-cast original audio dramas from the worlds of Doctor Who, Torchwood, Blake's 7, Class, Dark Shadows, The Avengers, Survivors, The Omega Factor, Star Cops, Sherlock Holmes, Dorian Gray, Pathfinder Legends, The Prisoner, Adam Adamant Lives, Space 1999, Timeslip and Terrahawks...

www.bigfinish.com

Torchwood: The Sins of Captain John - Torchwood - Special Releases - Big Finish

Award-winning, full-cast original audio dramas from the worlds of Doctor Who, Torchwood, Blake's 7, Class, Dark Shadows, The Avengers, Survivors, The Omega Factor, Star Cops, Sherlock Holmes, Dorian Gray, Pathfinder Legends, The Prisoner, Adam Adamant Lives, Space 1999, Timeslip and Terrahawks...

www.bigfinish.com

9A. Doctor Who: The Fourth Doctor Adventures Series 09 Volume 1 - Doctor Who - The Fourth Doctor Adventures - Big Finish

Award-winning, full-cast original audio dramas from the worlds of Doctor Who, Torchwood, Blake's 7, Class, Dark Shadows, The Avengers, Survivors, The Omega Factor, Star Cops, Sherlock Holmes, Dorian Gray, Pathfinder Legends, The Prisoner, Adam Adamant Lives, Space 1999, Timeslip and Terrahawks...

www.bigfinish.com

260. Doctor Who: Dark Universe - Doctor Who - The Monthly Adventures - Big Finish

Award-winning, full-cast original audio dramas from the worlds of Doctor Who, Torchwood, Blake's 7, Class, Dark Shadows, The Avengers, Survivors, The Omega Factor, Star Cops, Sherlock Holmes, Dorian Gray, Pathfinder Legends, The Prisoner, Adam Adamant Lives, Space 1999, Timeslip and Terrahawks...

www.bigfinish.com

The Diary of River Song Series 7 (she gets involved in some weird shit and weeping angels), Torchwood: The Sins of Captain John (nuff said), The Fourth Doctor Adventures Series 9 Volume 1 (now in monthly range format!), and Doctor Who: Dark Universe (Doom Coalition prequel) are all out.

 

[Starscreams Cape]

They're trending back down to normal. Jodie had a very good first season, ratings-wise. Her second season ratings are back to where they were during Smith and Capaldi's time. That said, we don't know where the bottom is. If she dips consistently below five million UK viewers, it will represent a massive failure of Chiball and co. to maintain the brand.

LOL she had a good opening episode ratings wise. That's it.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

So an actual gender Fluid Alien confronting a gender larper? An alien whose gender is built into their new personality and Identity?

That could be interesting for stories

So create your own setting that allows you to write these stories. Don't try to hijack an existing one to satisfy your own vanity.

I remember Tumblrinas seething over Amy because she was an attractive white woman who wore sexy outfits. They constantly shrieked about her, calling her a whore and saying that she existed solely as male gaze. They also complained that she dressed too unrealistically compared to Rose and Martha, making it obvious they only approved of female characters that are fully covered up. As I said earlier in the thread the actress chose her outfit and loved dressing the part. Of course the Tumblrina crowd would get mad and move goal posts every time that got brought up. They also hated River Song for that exact same reason and complained about her outfit and cleavage. Which is hilarious because Alex Kingston is a middle aged woman and you would think they would love seeing a woman her age being cast in a sexy role.

The whole thing was like watching an awkward unpopular girl in middle school hissing “slut” every time an attractive cheer leader passed by them.

Is she not also the only major NuWho (white female) companion to never be miscegenated?

 

[Overly Serious]

They're trending back down to normal. Jodie had a very good first season, ratings-wise. Her second season ratings are back to where they were during Smith and Capaldi's time. That said, we don't know where the bottom is. If she dips consistently below five million UK viewers, it will represent a massive failure of Chiball and co. to maintain the brand.

You wouldn't think that from all those YouTubers crowing about DW losing millions of viewers and "get woke, go broke". The people I know who were big DW fans during the Matt Smith and David Tennant era no longer watch it. I was starting to get the impression it was unpopular but I hang out mostly in communities that aren't very woke so I figured my impressions were probably getting skewed.

Is she not also the only major NuWho (white female) companion to never be miscegenated?

She's ginger. So no.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

He ALWAYS put them on a big pedestal and thought that having them mock the men around them showed what an ally he was to women. I don't think it's him being woke, I think it's some kind of sexual compulsion with him - he just has to show how much he respects women at every opportunity and they all have to be super special.

You know, I've always suspected that Moffat was using River and Clara as some kind of self-inserts. Moffat was smart enough not to introduce a super special new guy named "Steven" and be obvious with it like Roddenberry and his self insert Wesley (he even named him after him). But using the companions would be more subtle, and less obvious.

River was a human that had time lord abilities and when she explained why she loved the doctor so much in the Capaldi era, it felt more like a fanboy than a romantic letter. And Clara was made to be essential to the origins of the doctor. She was the one that told him which TARDIS he should've stolen, and basically inspired the first doctor as a kid.

Those would be huge red flags for self insert Mary Sue fanfiction, but because those were female companions, most people don't see it that way.

I sincerely can't tell if he shills his female characters as some kind of self-insertion or as some form of Social Justice or maybe it's a little bit of both.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

You wouldn't think that from all those YouTubers crowing about DW losing millions of viewers and "get woke, go broke". The people I know who were big DW fans during the Matt Smith and David Tennant era no longer watch it. I was starting to get the impression it was unpopular but I hang out mostly in communities that aren't very woke so I figured my impressions were probably getting skewed.

Literally the very first story of Matt Smith's run (after the transitional "pilot" episode) featured a black, teenage queen of a future England

She's ginger. So no.

Is this one of those "redheads aren't human" cracks?

You know, I've always suspected that Moffat was using River and Clara as some kind of self-inserts. Moffat was smart enough not to introduce a super special new guy named "Steven" and be obvious with it like Roddenberry and his self insert Wesley (he even named him after him). But using the companions would be more subtle, and less obvious.

River was a human that had time lord abilities and when she explained why she loved the doctor so much in the Capaldi era, it felt more like a fanboy than a romantic letter. And Clara was made to be essential to the origins of the doctor. She was the one that told him which TARDIS he should've stolen, and basically inspired the first doctor as a kid.

Those would be huge red flags for self insert Mary Sue fanfiction, but because those were female companions, most people don't see it that way.

I sincerely can't tell if he shills his female characters as some kind of self-insertion or as some form of Social Justice or maybe it's a little bit of both.

I can buy it. There are certainly some strong parallels between Wesley apparently ascending to a higher plane of existence and Clara fucking off in her very own personal TARDIS near the end of their respective series.

 

[Overly Serious]

Literally the very first story of Matt Smith's run (after the transitional "pilot" episode) featured a black, teenage queen of a future England

That never struck me as woke. It's the future and lots of plausible reasons the queen might be Black. I genuinely didn't think anything about it until you mentioned it just now. For me, it's woke when it's obviously forced to fit an agenda. A character in the future being Black? Don't care. A regenerating Time Lord saying "finally" when he becomes a woman and immediately telling his friends "I don't know how you can stand all that male ego you have." Woke. Also, the actress playing the queen was born in 1968 and her mum is white. So you're a little off with the "Black, teenager". Doesn't seem something far-fetched casting wise for the Queen in the 29th Century.

Is this one of those "redheads aren't human" cracks?

Yes. Obviously.

 

[Cyril Sneer]

That never struck me as woke. It's the future and lots of plausible reasons the queen might be Black. I genuinely didn't think anything about it until you mentioned it just now. For me, it's woke when it's obviously forced to fit an agenda.

Forgive me for not subscribing to a definition of wokeness that hinges upon how distracting you personally find any given example.

Now, you can certainly try and brush off the (from my point of view, obvious agenda-pushing) casting of the Queen by dismissing the whole thing as mere speculative fiction, but speculative fiction ostensibly extrapolates ostensibly plausible future scenarios from contemporary technology or social trends. "The Beast Below" is not speculative fiction. It's a clunky fairy-tale about people being mean to an innocent space-whale who dindu nuffin.

A character in the future being Black? Don't care. A regenerating Time Lord saying "finally" when he becomes a woman and immediately telling his friends "I don't know how you can stand all that male ego you have." Woke.

A difference of degree, not kind.

Also, the actress playing the queen was born in 1968 and her mum is white.

Which is to say that her father is not. I believe that counts as sufficiently black in most jurisdictions.

So you're a little off with the "Black, teenager".

To be fair, she's got the attitude of a teenager:

Doesn't seem something far-fetched casting wise for the Queen in the 29th Century.

A Pakistani Muslim would be more likely.

Yes. Obviously.

Ah, we are to be enemies, I see.