Dr. Who

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Oh let's go REALLY trolling...

The timeless child was actually Susan, and she was entrusted to the Doctor who pretended to be her "grandfather" to hide the secret. Let's double down and say the explorer that found the girl and experimented on her was the Doctor's original wife. This is what drove a wedge between them and led him on his ultimate quest for repentance.

OR

Reveal that, in fact, we've been in an alternate universe all along - hence why this doctor is a woman instead of a man. Peter Capaldi shows up and apologies for the Master getting up to shenanigans. Seems he's been hoping around universes and blowing up the different versions of Gallifrey he finds. As he leads the master away, have him mutter something about how he's grateful his version of the Time Lords didn't have the timeless child origin. Let's go real insane and reveal that the timeless child was in fact a time lord kid from a universe where they had infinite regenerations instead of 12.

The Doctor Lies is like Rule 1 right?
Add Rule 1b

"The Doctor Lies, but he Master Lies even more." and just have it all be bullshit.

 

[UnKillFill]

Sadly I don’t think Chibnall’s clever enough to pull a double bluff like that, and even if he was, it’s still stupid overall. If they did re-retcon it, all that would do is fix the basic story, which would be a relief, but wouldn’t fix the fact the show is a boring mess that hasn’t been genuinely good since mid-Series 6. It’s sad we’ve reached a point where the status quo is actually preferable.

At this point, any reversal of the "Time Child Revelation" would come off as, "I was totally just pretending to be retarded guys..." To most of us at least...

To the relatively few social justards who still follow New Who, it would probably come off as, "I was totally just pretending to be *woke* guys..." And that's probably a lot more damaging to them.

 

[Emperor Julian]

It's quite interesting how the sheer incoherance of the plot and attempts by media shills to rationalize it, tend to ignore how boring the series has been. Even if you somehow justify the incredable levels of retcons and think the social commentry is important, It really doesnt change the fact that nobody's enjoying this and they're bleeding viewers.

 

[TheImportantFart]

It's quite interesting how the sheer incoherance of the plot and attempts by media shills to rationalize it, tend to ignore how boring the series has been. Even if you somehow justify the incredable levels of retcons and think the social commentry is important, It really doesnt change the fact that nobody's enjoying this and they're bleeding viewers.

Since the end of Series 6, I’ve gone into every episode thinking “Please don’t be total shit” rather than with any excitement. That is not a good place to be with a show. At this stage I only watch the show to keep up with what’s going on, and now I’m seriously regretting doing even that. I started watching Series 12 when about half of it had aired and it was a chore to sit through it all to get caught up. When the show comes back, I’ll probably watch out of morbid curiosity to see what they do with this going forward (if anything) and in the vague hope it somehow gets retconned but if it ends up taking too long, that will be it for me.

 

[Creep3r]

View attachment 1177138


So The BCC has already addressed everyone's complaints about this retcon:

BBC Responds to "The Timeless Children" Canon Complaints | Doctor Who TV

"What was written does not alter the flow of stories from William Hartnell's brilliant Doctor onwards."

www.doctorwhotv.co.uk

... and to the surprise of no one they are doubling down by pretending it doesn't break canon but just "adds layers and possibilities" to the story and that a lot of people liked it (twitter SJWs that don't care about the show obviously).

I've said this before and I will say it again. Chibnall is an idiot but he didn't do this alone. Just look at the fact that the BBC is covering his ass.

I'm not the least bit surprised. It was quite clear from the get-go that a lot of the worst that came from the Doctor this time around was not something Chinball did alone. The corporate suits clearly made/allowed this in a crazy attempt to widen the appeal of the show to a wider audience by making it more suitable for the current year, yet all they did was alienate their current and faithful audience with this farce.

They'll never admit they are wrong. They will take this mistake to their graves. No one here is ever likely to see a retcon within their lifetimes as any attempt would cause controversy by labeling any kind of retcon as racist and sexist, thus giving it a politically-fueled forcefield. So at best, this shit may get retconned once every single fucker who supported this and those who will support their ideals are out of the BBC, and that doesn't look like its going to happen anytime soon unless the BBC suffers some sort of major financial blow that makes them incredibly desperate, but the chance of them hitting rock bottom seems even less likely. There might be future directors who may try to fix this, but BBC is faithful to Chinball's ideals and they won't let his ideas die for his ideals align with their own socio-political motivations.

Chibnall not just fucked the entire tv series, he fucked all the drama cds,fucked the comics and books, he fucked EVERYTHING to hell and back the only thing that could save him by now is that the admission that the doctor is the timeless child was leave vague at best so a retcon-retcon could happen because this is a mess but we know is not going to happen

I know that feel.

I mean, as bad as Last Jedi was, it didn't destroy the past.

Disney was fucking the past as much as Chibnall is doing to Who since day fucking 1, especially when they released this travesty and crime against literature.

Their shitty nu-trilogy just reset shit back to square one and undid everything all past SW media ever accomplished and completely nullified the victories of the heroes for the sake of glorifying new asshole characters. Rey is essentially the Timeless Child of her franchise, taking away the titles, purpose and accomplishments of all the heroes that existed just so Kennedy, JJ, Rian and the rest of Disney's clown car could show just how much "better" their awful replacement characters were.

It makes me sick to my stomach to see another beloved franchise fall into the same rotter. Sure there were flaws or corruptions in recent years, especially with the 12th, but they were stupid and small enough that they could be mended over time or rendered into apocrypha or non-canonicity. What they've done now is too big to ignore.

Thanks for nothing Chinballs.

 

[Fireman Sam]

View attachment 1177314
Thanks for nothing Chinballs.

SCROTUM BEARD!

 

[Emperor Julian]

Since the end of Series 6, I’ve gone into every episode thinking “Please don’t be total shit” rather than with any excitement. That is not a good place to be with a show. At this stage I only watch the show to keep up with what’s going on, and now I’m seriously regretting doing even that. I started watching Series 12 when about half of it had aired and it was a chore to sit through it all to get caught up. When the show comes back, I’ll probably watch out of morbid curiosity to see what they do with this going forward (if anything) and in the vague hope it somehow gets retconned but if it ends up taking too long, that will be it for me.

I called it a day around 6 as well as it became ever clearer that the mystery box shit would never really go anywhere, which is ironic because Chipnalls problem is whats in the box is boring or annoying.
-The timeless child arc is shit because it not only has no gravitas because the Doctor was already the bestest time lord evar so her exceptionalism means nothing but also gets rid of the interesting complex dynamic the Doctor had with his people and completly undermines the Time war Arc.
-Destroying Gallifrey had absolutly no Gravitas or emotional fallout which was a horrible mistake.
-Dhawan is really being wasted as the Master, he's really good but he's got dogshit to workwith, not in the least because the show doesnt really build on the character development of the Missy arc and now he's just as OP as the Doctor.

... and to the surprise of no one they are doubling down by pretending it doesn't break canon but just "adds layers and possibilities" to the story .

They killed of the time lords and severed the characters links with them while killing off all the Missys character arc by making the new master a craaaaaaaazy mustache twirler, the BBC's views on possibilites is very differant than mine.

 

[Tookie]

To the relatively few social justards who still follow New Who, it would probably come off as, "I was totally just pretending to be *woke* guys..." And that's probably a lot more damaging to them.

They got themselves into the same Catch-22 that doomed Rise of Skywalker.

 

[Creep3r]

SCROTUM BEARD!

The resemblance is rather uncanny.

 

[Cubanodun]

View attachment 1177138


So The BCC has already addressed everyone's complaints about this retcon:

BBC Responds to "The Timeless Children" Canon Complaints | Doctor Who TV

"What was written does not alter the flow of stories from William Hartnell's brilliant Doctor onwards."

www.doctorwhotv.co.uk

... and to the surprise of no one they are doubling down by pretending it doesn't break canon but just "adds layers and possibilities" to the story and that a lot of people liked it (twitter SJWs that don't care about the show obviously).

I've said this before and I will say it again. Chibnall is an idiot but he didn't do this alone. Just look at the fact that the BBC is covering his ass.

All of this to say "we know we fucled everything but tough luck we can't please everyone that is no woke and I hope you come back to see more"

Hope to come back my ass, pretty sure they saw the episode tanking in every critics website and went with "we are doing something good because the Nazis are mad"

 

[Gar For Archer]

Recently I learned that Chibnall is actually responsible for turning me off Doctor Who, just maybe not in the way you’re probably imagining.

I started watching with the new series, and was chugging along with it despite the occasional really fucking stupid episode (like that one with the cat nurses). I got through all of it through David Tennant’s run and thought it was mostly fine despite aforementioned dumb episodes, and while I never quite got into Matt Smith’s first season I was still willing to give it a shot until one specific two-parter - the one with the fucking lizard people. It was at that point that I decided Doctor Who was fucking stupid and that I would never watch another episode of it.

The other day I was watching an old YouTube video listing Chibnall’s... accomplishments, and found out that he was responsible for that trash fire of a two-parter. So I have him to thank for getting me out of the game relatively early before shit REALLY hit the fan.

 

[Overly Serious]

Morrissey would have made a fine Doctor, but Smith was fantastic until the writing let him down mid-Series 6. Even then, he was still really good more often than not.

Matt Smith is one of my favourite Doctors. (Alongside Troughton and Collin Baker if you're curious). He could go from cheerfully energetic to pensive and dangerously calm in a moment. You actually felt he was 900 years old when he let the mask slip and could be surprisingly menacing. And Matt Smith is a good actor generally. The Beast Below, 2nd episode, cemented my appreciation of him that early on with his sadness at the end and he did a good job of transitioning the Doctor from the grief-stricken Tennant Doctor to the one that is ready to move on. The Hurt Doctor's comment about "the man who regrets and the man who forgets" in the 50th was a good moment as was Ten's contempt for Eleven's willingness to put the past behind him. Good writing.

Also, he had great chemistry with Jenna Coleman regardless of how much some here hate his character. Right from the start they were good together in a way Amy and him never were even though she was supposed to have a crush on him. Pay attention and you can see Eleven thwack Clara's arse with a chamois leather just at the end of one episode. Her face has... "interesting..." written all over it as well. Honestly, she had more chemistry with him than that psychopath River Song. I never believed the whole "turned on by her being a psycho" thing they tried to sell in The Impossible Astronaut and other episodes.

Incidentally, The Eleventh Hour remains one of my favourite Who episodes of all time. It very explicitly returned the Doctor to his roots in de-powering him from the lonely god era of Tennant - TARDIS offline, sonic screwdriver (aka infinitely powerful magic wand) destroyed and just dropping the Doctor on Earth with just the shirt on his back. Everything down to the fact he ended up in a remote English village far from London, UNIT or anything else was deliberately done to say things were scaled back. The pacing of the whole series shifted. For nostalgia's sake I'm going to sperg fully now and post the original Season 5 trailer. It's a long time ago now but I can remember how I reacted. There was so much promise. WWII Daleks, strange fairground people, shadows running through a graveyard and a city in Space flying the Union Jack. It looked great and for the most part, I believe it was. Hard core Who fans were up in arms about it though because it showed the Doctor firing a gun.

With Karen Gillian in the TARDIS I never noticed anyone else on screen.

Nobody cares but I'm going to list my sexiest companions, imo: Clara Oswald, Martha Jones, Leela, Liz Shaw.

Karen Gillian is an odd one in that whilst obviously pretty I didn't really fancy her in Doctor Who. But as Nebula in the Marvel movies she's the one thing that tipped me into going to see Infinity War Part II. I don't know what's going on in my head but I find her hugely attractive in one and not much at all in the other. And no, I don't have a fetish for smurfs - it's something to do with their characters.

Recently I learned that Chibnall is actually responsible for turning me off Doctor Who, just maybe not in the way you’re probably imagining.

I started watching with the new series, and was chugging along with it despite the occasional really fucking stupid episode (like that one with the cat nurses). I got through all of it through David Tennant’s run and thought it was mostly fine despite aforementioned dumb episodes, and while I never quite got into Matt Smith’s first season I was still willing to give it a shot until one specific two-parter - the one with the fucking lizard people. It was at that point that I decided Doctor Who was fucking stupid and that I would never watch another episode of it.

The other day I was watching an old YouTube video listing Chibnall’s... accomplishments, and found out that he was responsible for that trash fire of a two-parter. So I have him to thank for getting me out of the game relatively early before shit REALLY hit the fan.

Out of curiosity, what is it about The Hungry Earth / Cold Blood that you found so off-putting? I'm not arguing they're the best episodes of the run but I also can't see what in particular about them would make them so bad. I mean, you'd already made it through every Incel's favourite episode Amy's Choice.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WVVVFFPt_oA

I forgot how many holes Amy fell into in her first season.

 

[Overly Serious]

I forgot how many holes Amy fell into in her first season.

All companions had their thing. Sarah Jane kept getting hypnotised. Amy Pond kept falling into holes. Clara kept getting killed. Rose kept getting trapped and separated from the Doctor. Donna Noble... well Donna more happened to other people than had things happen to her.

 

[Gar For Archer]

Matt Smith is one of my favourite Doctors. (Alongside Troughton and Collin Baker if you're curious). He could go from cheerfully energetic to pensive and dangerously calm in a moment. You actually felt he was 900 years old when he let the mask slip and could be surprisingly menacing. And Matt Smith is a good actor generally. The Beast Below, 2nd episode, cemented my appreciation of him that early on with his sadness at the end and he did a good job of transitioning the Doctor from the grief-stricken Tennant Doctor to the one that is ready to move on. The Hurt Doctor's comment about "the man who regrets and the man who forgets" in the 50th was a good moment as was Ten's contempt for Eleven's willingness to put the past behind him. Good writing.

Also, he had great chemistry with Jenna Coleman regardless of how much some here hate his character. Right from the start they were good together in a way Amy and him never were even though she was supposed to have a crush on him. Pay attention and you can see Eleven thwack Clara's arse with a chamois leather just at the end of one episode. Her face has... "interesting..." written all over it as well. Honestly, she had more chemistry with him than that psychopath River Song. I never believed the whole "turned on by her being a psycho" thing they tried to sell in The Impossible Astronaut and other episodes.

Incidentally, The Eleventh Hour remains one of my favourite Who episodes of all time. It very explicitly returned the Doctor to his roots in de-powering him from the lonely god era of Tennant - TARDIS offline, sonic screwdriver (aka infinitely powerful magic wand) destroyed and just dropping the Doctor on Earth with just the shirt on his back. Everything down to the fact he ended up in a remote English village far from London, UNIT or anything else was deliberately done to say things were scaled back. The pacing of the whole series shifted. For nostalgia's sake I'm going to sperg fully now and post the original Season 5 trailer. It's a long time ago now but I can remember how I reacted. There was so much promise. WWII Daleks, strange fairground people, shadows running through a graveyard and a city in Space flying the Union Jack. It looked great and for the most part, I believe it was. Hard core Who fans were up in arms about it though because it showed the Doctor firing a gun.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=WVVVFFPt_oA



Nobody cares but I'm going to list my sexiest companions, imo: Clara Oswald, Martha Jones, Leela, Liz Shaw.

Karen Gillian is an odd one in that whilst obviously pretty I didn't really fancy her in Doctor Who. But as Nebula in the Marvel movies she's the one thing that tipped me into going to see Infinity War Part II. I don't know what's going on in my head but I find her hugely attractive in one and not much at all in the other. And no, I don't have a fetish for smurfs - it's something to do with their characters.



Out of curiosity, what is it about The Hungry Earth / Cold Blood that you found so off-putting? I'm not arguing they're the best episodes of the run but I also can't see what in particular about them would make them so bad. I mean, you'd already made it through every Incel's favourite episode Amy's Choice.

I’ll be honest, it’s been a long-ass time since I quit Doctor Who so I couldn’t really tell you what specifically it was that put me off. More likely than not it was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. I didn’t particularly like Matt Smith compared to Tennant, I absolutely hated Amy and Rory, and that was just the point at which I decided that I didn’t care enough to watch any more.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

Oh let's go REALLY trolling...

The timeless child was actually Susan, and she was entrusted to the Doctor who pretended to be her "grandfather" to hide the secret. Let's double down and say the explorer that found the girl and experimented on her was the Doctor's original wife. This is what drove a wedge between them and led him on his ultimate quest for repentance.

You could use that to explain Susan’s otherwise inexplicable line about inventing the name TARDIS. Maybe you could come up with some explanation as to why the TARDIS got stuck as a police box - as the Timeless Child, her psychic powers were powerful enough to fuse the Doctor’s TARDIS in the shape of her own (or something).

OR what if it’s the Metacrisis Doctor, who developed regeneration using the limited facilities and technology available to him, but it went wrong and his regenerations became infinite. Terrified of immortality, he tries to travel to the main Whoniverse, but it goes catastrophically wrong (again, limited tech). His universe is destroyed, he ends up in the wrong time, dies so hard that he regenerates as a child with no memory, the Gallifreyans find her and use her.

Then, somehow, a child is born who is genetically identical to the Timeless Child. Not understanding what this means, the Time Lords start dicking with time to resolve the apparent paradox, creating the confusion. Exactly what happens is vague and ambiguous.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

"The Doctor Falls" was my "fuck this, I'm done" moment for the new series. The writing had been on the wall, because I went from watching the show the second it was available, to watching the show when I could get round to it, to watching the show out of a sense of obligation. But when Moffat pussied out of consequences and made none of it matter yet again, I decided I was finished beyond all the WAMMAN POWAH stupidity. But there were two things that stuck in my craw that I might not have walked away had it not been for them.

1) Perma-killing (in theory, we all know he's not dead) the Master by his previous version. He goes through all this trouble to set up this (entirely unconvincing but whatever) heel turn moment, and then completely removes the consequences by having the Master supposedly kill Missy for reelz.

2) That awful, awful slo-mo scene of Capaldi running through the woods waving the sonic screwdriver around blowing up Cybermen. The whole thing was so overwrought, so retarded that I spent the entire sequence watching through my fingers. It was like something the Asylum would do if they were feeling particularly tongue-in-cheek. I've never felt that bad for an actor before- Capaldi was trying heart out, but nothing could have saved that from being distilled cringe.

There was other stuff too- the Pilot showing up to assimilate Bill, and this being regarded as "saving" despite the fact that they spent the season opener trying to make exactly that not happen (being a puddle of alien engine oil is now an alternative lifestyle choice, I guess) but at this point I'm so used to Moffat copping out on companion deaths that I wasn't surprised. As an aside, much like the critter from Fear Her, the Pilot is something with truly terrifying implications: a civilization so impossibly advanced that their engine oil runoff can chase a TARDIS into the Time War. Fuck the Daleks, these are the guys you should be concerned about.

The show has hit the same treadmill as American comics: tons of stuff happens, but none of it matters.

 

[Emperor Julian]

Food for thought-the timeless child would have worked better if it'd been the Master, since it would have provided and a solid motivation for the Master to go nuts again and be powerful enough to wipe out the Time lords. It'd still be shit but it would at least improve things a little.

 

[AverageAnimeWatcher]

"The Doctor Falls" was my "fuck this, I'm done" moment for the new series. The writing had been on the wall, because I went from watching the show the second it was available, to watching the show when I could get round to it, to watching the show out of a sense of obligation. But when Moffat pussied out of consequences and made none of it matter yet again, I decided I was finished beyond all the WAMMAN POWAH stupidity. But there were two things that stuck in my craw that I might not have walked away had it not been for them.

I wish I could agree fully, but I really like that episode. While I do agree with your complaints, hence the reason I'm a bit torn, I must say the performances of Capaldi, and both masters made it all worth it.

Heck, I think it had one of the best Capaldi speeches. No scratch that one of the best scenes of the entire series period. The 12 doctor puts in a nutshell what means to be a hero. About self-sacrifice even when there is no hope or reward. Something, 13, aka let others die for me while I run away to safety, could learn.

He distilled in a few words what it takes to be a hero, no, a good person period.

Doing good even if it is hopeless. Without hope, without a witness, without a reward.

It was especially awesome because Capaldi started as one of the darkest, and coldest doctors, but he ended up being one of the most self-sacrificing and hopeful of all the doctors. Capaldi's doctor sincerely changed the way I look at things and taught me what it really means to be a good person. That when things are at their most bleak is when we need people to do what's right no matter how hopeless it might seem.

Capaldi made all the ugly parts of series 9 and 10 worth it for me. Once he left, the show ended for me.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Food for thought-the timeless child would have worked better if it'd been the Master, since it would have provided and a solid motivation for the Master to go nuts again and be powerful enough to wipe out the Time lords. It'd still be shit but it would at least improve things a little.

Lets take it another step, the Timeless Child is the Master..and it was The Doctor that put the Timeless Child through the portal to be tortured because it was a "Fixed point of time." tm.