Dr. Who

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

How is he getting cucked? This is for Big Finish.

Oh is it Big Finnish?

 

[Return of the Freaker]

Oh is it Big Finnish?

Yep. He's doing 12 audio dramas.

 

[UnKillFill]

I wonder if they'll set any of these before "Rose". I know it's partially implied that he's freshly regenerated at the beginning, but in the same episode it's also shown that he's done a ton of other shit we never actually see him do in the series.

 

[TheImportantFart]

I wonder if they'll set any of these before "Rose". I know it's partially implied that he's freshly regenerated at the beginning, but in the same episode it's also shown that he's done a ton of other shit we never actually see him do in the series.

Yeah, but it's time travel, so it's entirely possible all that shit happened after the events of "Rose" for him.

It's also explained in the novelisation of "Day of the Doctor" that the Ninth Doctor smashed every mirror in the TARDIS after regenerating, which means that scene in "Rose" is either the first time he got his hands on a working mirror or could bear to look at himself, so on that basis it's possible there could be stories set before "Rose".

 

[Mr. 0]

Yeah, but it's time travel, so it's entirely possible all that shit happened after the events of "Rose" for him.

It's also explained in the novelisation of "Day of the Doctor" that the Ninth Doctor smashed every mirror in the TARDIS after regenerating, which means that scene in "Rose" is either the first time he got his hands on a working mirror or could bear to look at himself, so on that basis it's possible there could be stories set before "Rose".

It'd be a travesty if there weren't any stories before "Rose". Before the 50th anniversary the period between Eight and Nine was wholly unchartered territory and full of speculation. That Steven Moffat tried to crush that with comments about his debut in "Rose" was nothing short of annoying.

 

[Flexo]

Good timing with the Ninth Doctor review @UnKillFill.

Nine's back bitches.

So are we going to get a do over of day of the doctor?

Just give us a damn Paul McGann series already. It's your only hope, BBC.

 

[Flexo]

It'd be a travesty if there weren't any stories before "Rose". Before the 50th anniversary the period between Eight and Nine was wholly unchartered territory and full of speculation. That Steven Moffat tried to crush that with comments about his debut in "Rose" was nothing short of annoying.

Addendum to the above.

Just reveal that there are adventures of the 9th doctor in the time war, where he blows up the planet before timey whimey gives up John Hurt who then figures out how to save Gallifrey.

I dunno, I don't even care any more, where's the alcohol?

 

[UnKillFill]

As @TheImportantFart said, you could hand wave it away either way "because time travel", but it's worth noting that in all of the random pictures of 9 from over the years, Rose doesn't appear in any of them, and after they started traveling together, she rarely took her hooks out of him.

Spoiler: Size

There could be numerous reasons for this, but yeah I really think it would be more interesting to see 9 running around (most likely with severe PTSD) trying to save people pre-Rose for at least a few of these stories.

 

[UnKillFill]

If nothing else, these (dr)unkillfill ramblings about series 1 are giving me a new appreciation for 9. I wouldn't call him my favorite or anything, but I would say that I like him a lot now when I didn't before.

 

[Mr. 0]

If I remember correctly, there was a BBC mandate that the Ninth Doctor could only appear with Rose, so here's hoping they've lifted it for these audios maybe?

I found this out by looking into a Doctor Who Magazine comic called "The Flood". It featured the Eighth Doctor and his companion fighting against invisible Cybermen and him defeating them by looking into the heart of the TARDIS and destroying them all. The original ending was to feature him regenerating into the Ninth Doctor but that mandate killed it. If it weren't for this it would've been the official story of how Eight became Nine, supposedly.

 

[UnKillFill]

This is one of the episodes I've been waiting for. The first time we see Mickey since Rose decided to dump him without even telling him, Jack's first episode as a companion, and the return of one of the most ridiculous aliens of this era of Who: Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you: Boomtown.

-If they absolutely had to bring back one of the Slitheen for this episode, they brought back the best of the bunch. This actress does a great job throughout the episode, her facial expressions are especially on point for the character she's playing. At least she wasn't one of the Slitheen who got naked and huffed their own farts in an elevator. Yeah.

-Jack's hypersexuality can get obnoxious fast, but I don't mind him flirting with the Doctor, or whatever he's doing here when Mickey and Rose share a hugging reunion.
Jack: Aw, sweet, look at these two. How come I never get any of that?
9: Buy me a drink first.
Jack: You're such hard work.
9: But worth it.
Get a room you two.

-Wait so let me get this straight... Rose made Mickey take a several hour train ride from London to Cardiff (when she could have instantly gone to London after they were done refueling) just to bring her stupid ass her passport, which the Doctor says she doesn't even need? Yep, bitch Rose is officially back.*

-But what if we end up in Brazil? I might need it. You see, I'm prepared for anything.

Lose the shit eating grin you absolute dullard. You travel in time.
Let's say you do end up in Brazil, and somebody *does* ask to see your passport. What are the odds that you'll be in a time period that's either:
A. Before that passport was even issued, or B. Long after it expired?

Spoiler: How long are passports even good for anyway?

Right.. So pretty good.

-Mickey: "Who's Jumping Jack Flash? I mean, I don't mind you hanging with big-ears up there."
Poor dumb Ricky. It's great that you "don't mind" the Doctor now, but Rose has been telling anyone who will listen that she's single, including "Jumping Jack Flash." Odds are better than none that they've already fucked in between episodes, and she still won't even tell you she dumped your stupid ass. Good God man, have some pride.

-Does a mayor really have the authority to unilaterally build a nuclear power plant? Anywhere really, but especially in a UK that can't even launch nuclear missiles without explicit authorization from the UN? I'm pressing X to doubt.

-Wait did Mayor Slitheen just say that she hit a guy with her car? And nobody even bothered looking into that? Ok...

-Well I guess we weren't getting out of a Slitheen episode without some more poo "humor". Meh.

-You know I don't mind that they're trying to humanize (for lack of a better word) the villain of the episode a bit, but maybe they could have picked a better place to do it than when she's in the loo. Just saying.

-I really like this group dynamic with 9, Jack, Rose, and Mickey, all working together with a singular plan. I wish we got more of it than just this episode. ...Aaand they already fucked up by trying to make Mickey look like a joke. Whatever.

-
9: Tell her the Doctor would like to see her.
Some dude: Doctor Who?

Spoiler

-Quit making the fat lady run Doctor.

-Blaidd Ddrwg means Bad Wolf... And Nilbog is Troll 2 backwards. You aren't clever RTD, and this still isn't a story arc.

-
Mayor Slitheen: They have the death penalty on [Insert stupid Slitheen planet name here].
Me: Yeah, and you killed a bunch of people. You deserve to die.
It's fine if you morally object to the death penalty, but it's bullshit to say that being pro death penalty makes you "literally no better" than the mass murderer who was prepared to kill billions more (and the show just said that). Fuck you britbongs.

-*So Rose admits she didn't need that passport after all. (I guess she just made Mickey drop what he was doing and travel several hours out off his way to come see her because she missed him?) The scene would actually be kind of sweet if Rose hadn't tried to sleep with nearly every man she's met so far this series. Then they go off to get drinks or a pizza, and a hotel or something.
Fuck it, this scene still is sweet.

-Why am I not surprised that Jack has kinky handcuffs that give you a zap if you get too far away from eachother? Where was he even keeping those things? Never mind, I don't want to know.

Spoiler: Iocane powder? Inconceivable!

-Right so this makes no sense, apparently Mickey is going out with "Trisha Delaney". So he's either just as terrible as Rose is, or he's lying in some beta attempt to make Rose jealous (my money's on the latter, because it even kind of seems to work.) But Micky, man... If you really are going out with this Trisha Delaney chick (who is apparently a bit of a fatty) why were you talking about getting a hotel with Rose literally 5 minutes ago?

-I can't tell if we're actually supposed to feel bad for... (looking it up) "Blon Fel Fotch Passameer-Day Slitheen" or not. Yeah her planet's means of execution sound super fucked up, but what the fuck else is the Doctor supposed to do, just let her go? She hasn't changed, not even remotely. She's only even saying she will now because she got caught. The only "decent" thing we've seen her do was *not* murder that pregnant reporter lady, but if her "nuke the planet and surf somewhere else" plan had succeeded, that woman and her baby still would have died and she literally wouldn't have given a shit. Even though she was literally taking a shit when chose not to kill her. Sorry, don't read that last sentence.

-Ok, this is just sad. Mickey, you're a cuck. Rose isn't worth it man, FFS find somebody better mate. And no I'm not letting Rose off the hook here either, she can't even let you have your 'fake girlfriend in Canada' to get over the fact she dumped your ass in probably the shittiest way possible. (I still don't think she's actually even told him, but I guess he's figured it out by now.)

-Back to Margaret (I'm not saying your dumb Slitheen name again) I forgot that you tried to use that pregnant reporter lady that you *didn't* kill as a reason why the Doctor should let you go now, but I already said this: You still would have had no fucking problem killing her and her unborn child if your "blow up the Earth and surf to wherever" plan had gone off without a hitch. Fuck you.

-There *is* something to what the Doctor says to her in response though...
9: You let one of them go, but that's nothing new. Every now and then, a little victim's spared because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions. Because once in a while, on a whim, if the wind's in the right direction, you happen to be kind.

I can't imagine a situation where the Doctor would ever "let a Dalek go", but it does seem like he was also talking about himself and his actions in the time war on some level here. (i.e. Yeah millions/billions of possibly innocent people died because of this one thing I had to do to kill more Daleks, but I did go out of my way to save those other people that next time.) Maybe I'm giving the writing here too much credit, but I hope not. This is good shit.
If the War Doctor ever did act like that, then I could totally understand how he lost his right to call himself "The Doctor". It's just a shame that nobody has ever actually had the balls to show the War Doctor acting like that...

-
Mickey: "I'm not asking you to leave him, because I know that's not fair. But I just need something, yeah? Some sort of promise that when you do come back, you're coming back for me."
You know what Ricky? I'm done defending you. I will still bring you up from time to time when your exe being a whore makes a funny joke, but at this point *You* are also a funny joke. It's funny that she doesn't even give you a real answer here. Also, whatever happened to Trisha Delaney?

Spoiler: Can you hear, can you hear the thunder?

Sorry, I always thought this Australian dude from Men at Work, whose name I don't actually know, looked like Christopher Eccleston, and Rose and Mickey just ended a conversation because they may or may not have heard thunder. Sorry again. Let's continue.

-Mickey: "Oh, go on then, run! It's him again, isn't it? It's the Doctor! It's always the Doctor! It's always going to be the Doctor. It's never me!"
Ok. You know what Ricky? Now you're just being a little bitch. Rose really should have just told you that she broke up with you, and I'll admit she's been sending you mixed signals all throughout this episode from the very beginning... But even you had enough sense to *pretend* to move on, even though you didn't actually. On some level, you have to know this shit is over. Come on man.

-Wait, was Jack futzing around with the surfboard the reason why this episodes's climax happens? Why was he doing that?

-And yeah, after an episode of trying to convince everyone that she's changed, Margaret is about to kill Rose. (Do it!)

-Oh shit, I'll admit we've actually gone an episode or two without this happening, but 9 just got outsmarted by the enemy of the week *again.* Apparently hooking her nuclear surfboard up to the TARDIS was *exactly* what this Slitheen wanted. And look she hasn't changed at all, she still plans to kill billions of people. (The death penalty is still totes bad for unrepentant murderers though y'all).

-I really hate the conclusion to this episode. It was a lazy way to get rid of someone who was *literally* preparing to kill 6.5 billion people without a second thought. I know she complained that her family made her as bad as she was. Maybe if Hitler grew up with hippies, he wouldn't have killed 6 gorillian jews either? It's still a bullshit excuse. And she didn't deserve a bullshit (possible) redemption arc.

Whatever, now we're in the endgame. Next episode is "Bad Wolf" Where we can finally see the "brilliant" ending to STD RTD 's first attempt at a "Story Arc."

I sure hope that various people randomly repeating the words "Bad Wolf"... sometimes in entirely different languages, sometimes writing it a place that our heroes didn't even actually see (even though we, the viewers did), over the course of this series meant literally *anything* when all is said and done. I guess we'll see soon enough, won't we?

Edit: I almost ignored this, but I think it will be funnier if I actually mention it here. By the end of this episode Micky *seems to* have found his balls again, and Rose sure does seem to be acting like she regrets running away from him to (not) help the Doctor... I wonder if either of those two changes end up sticking, even to the next episode lol...

 

[Flexo]

You let one of them go, but that's nothing new. Every now and then, a little victim's spared because she smiled, because he's got freckles, because they begged. And that's how you live with yourself. That's how you slaughter millions. Because once in a while, on a whim, if the wind's in the right direction, you happen to be kind.

Huh. That is exactly what bugs me about modern day protagonists.

@A Useless Fish over in the star trek thread described the protagonist in Lower decks as "abusive, violent, unstable, unbearable, and an all-round horrible self-righteous human being." And that's how they justify it. Because once in a while, the character happens to be kind.

I don't think things have gotten bad enough that the heroes are mass murders (that I can recall - but give me time) but then it seems perfectly acceptable that as long as the slaughter is off screen - but the random acts of kindness are on screen - the audience is willing to accept it.

Humans have gone insane.

 

[UnKillFill]

Huh. That is exactly what bugs me about modern day protagonists.

@A Useless Fish over in the star trek thread described the protagonist in Lower decks as "abusive, violent, unstable, unbearable, and an all-round horrible self-righteous human being." And that's how they justify it. Because once in a while, the character happens to be kind.

I don't think things have gotten bad enough that the heroes are mass murders (that I can recall - but give me time) but then it seems perfectly acceptable that as long as the slaughter is off screen - but the random acts of kindness are on screen - the audience is willing to accept it.

Humans have gone insane.

I don't think this is the same thing as that at all though. The Doctor very clearly doesn't want to be that way, and the fact that he (apparently, we never really got to see it) had to become a mass murderer to fight in the time war is one of the biggest pieces of baggage the doctor carries for 9 10 and even 11's run. It's the reason why he disowned an entire incarnation of himself, possibly incorrectly.

Unfortunately, and this is the biggest wasted opportunity of the War Doctor in my opinion, most of what little we see from The War Doctor, he's just an older crankier boomer Doctor, one who more or less acts the same way he usually does, all while saying he's too old for this shit.

In the first episode of "Lower Decks", Mariner is all those things @A Useless Fish said and more. She's very clearly a danger to herself and others, and yet she never feels bad about it because the show insists that she's awesome and never did anything wrong in the first place.

Spoiler

In the first 2 minutes of the episode, our literal first introduction to the character, she's drunk off her ass and swinging a bat'leth at Space Morty multiple times, eventually stabbing him in the leg "because wacky", it's ok though because later she shirks her duty to give some farmers stolen farming equipment from the ship. Also, her putting Space Morty's life in danger *again* just so happens to inadvertently save the ship from crisis of the week. I'm honestly having a hard time seeing a point where she even "happened to be kind".

 

[Flexo]

I don't think this is the same thing as that at all though. The Doctor very clearly doesn't want to be that way, and the fact that he (apparently, we never really got to see it) had to become a mass murderer to fight in the time war is one of the biggest pieces of baggage the doctor carries for 9 10 and even 11's run. It's the reason why he disowned an entire incarnation of himself, possibly incorrectly.

Unfortunately, and this is the biggest wasted opportunity of the War Doctor in my opinion, most of what little we see from The War Doctor, he's just an older crankier boomer Doctor, one who more or less acts the same way he usually does, all while saying he's too old for this shit.

In the first episode of "Lower Decks", Mariner is all those things @A Useless Fish said and more. She's very clearly a danger to herself and others, and yet she never feels bad about it because the show insists that she's awesome and never did anything wrong in the first place.

Spoiler

In the first 2 minutes of the episode, our literal first introduction to the character, she's drunk off her ass and swinging a bat'leth at Space Morty multiple times, eventually stabbing him in the leg "because wacky", it's ok though because later she shirks her duty to give some farmers stolen farming equipment from the ship. Also, her putting Space Morty's life in danger *again* just so happens to inadvertently save the ship from crisis of the week. I'm honestly having a hard time seeing a point where she even "happened to be kind".

OH yes I'm not really talking about the Doctor in particular, just that his words are oddly prophetic in the way things have gone in writing.

The Doc is a much more compelling character originally. Now do we want to have fun and debate whether he - now as a she - has become that type of character?

I'm honestly having a hard time seeing a point where she even "happened to be kind".

But you did. Go back a sentence:

later she shirks her duty to give some farmers stolen farming equipment from the ship

All her antics are "supposed" to be ok because she helped some farmers guys.... (also probably because she's a minority so you know they can't do anything wrong)

 

[Pokemonquistador2]

Huh. That is exactly what bugs me about modern day protagonists.

@A Useless Fish over in the star trek thread described the protagonist in Lower decks as "abusive, violent, unstable, unbearable, and an all-round horrible self-righteous human being." And that's how they justify it. Because once in a while, the character happens to be kind.

I don't think things have gotten bad enough that the heroes are mass murders (that I can recall - but give me time) but then it seems perfectly acceptable that as long as the slaughter is off screen - but the random acts of kindness are on screen - the audience is willing to accept it.

Humans have gone insane.

This would be like if, in Schindler's List, they made Amon Goeth the protagonist because he almost spared the life of that Jew kid who scratched his saddle and because he allowed Oskar Schindler to gamble for the life of Helen Hirsch, the woman he was raping and beating up on the regular.

 

[UnKillFill]

But you did. Go back a sentence:


All her antics are "supposed" to be ok because she helped some farmers guys.... (also probably because she's a minority so you know they can't do anything wrong)

Eh fair enough, but this "good deed" is undercut by the fact that we as an audience are never shown, before or after, that the farmers are struggling in any meaningful way. Mariner just says they are to justify her shirking her duty and stealing from the ship and we're meant to accept it because she's perfect.

To me, it looks like she decided to steal from the ship just to be insubordinate and stick it to Captain Mommy (who in fairness also seems to be a bit of a bitch.) I see your point though.

 

[Flexo]

Eh fair enough, but this "good deed" is undercut by the fact that we as an audience are never shown, before or after, that the farmers are struggling in any meaningful way. Mariner just says they are to justify her shirking her duty and stealing from the ship and we're meant to accept it because she's perfect.

To me, it looks like she decided to steal from the ship just to be insubordinate and stick it to Captain Mommy (who in fairness also seems to be a bit of a bitch.) I see your point though.

Exactly. Another flaw in modern writing is the reduction of showing.

Or worse, the writers do such a bad job, they tell us one thing that then contradicts what is shown. i.e. "That guy is the worst." while the audience only ever sees the guy being a decent, likable chap. (or more likely, the only thing they've ever done is be mean to the protagonist - so then we're supposed to find them evil)

I'm feeling weird (and regretful) having lived long enough to see the writers on fanfic.net grow up and take over. (ok, maybe not literally, but it really feels that way)

 

[UnKillFill]

Exactly. Another flaw in modern writing is the reduction of showing.

Or worse, the writers do such a bad job, they tell us one thing that then contradicts what is shown. i.e. "That guy is the worst." while the audience only ever sees the guy being a decent, likable chap. (or more likely, the only thing they've ever done is be mean to the protagonist - so then we're supposed to find them evil)

I'm feeling weird (and regretful) having lived long enough to see the writers on fanfic.net grow up and take over. (ok, maybe not literally, but it really feels that way)

To bring this back to Doctor Who, this is exactly the problem I've always had with Rose Tyler. She's also always been a terrible person, but the show and the Doctor himself (especially 10) always treated her like she was this perfect and amazing person... Even though the show didn't even try to hide her *many* failings, it also somehow still told us to ignore those failings.

I can't even call Rose, (or Mariner for that matter) a 'Mary Sue'. A Mary Sue is "perfect" in every way, to the detriment of the story even. If anything, they're both *anti* Mary Sues, in that they are anything *but* perfect, and yet we are all for some reason supposed to pretend that they still *are* perfect, despite the show not even trying to hide all evidence to the contrary... I absolutely hate that archetype. -_-

 

[Flexo]

To bring this back to Doctor Who, this is exactly the problem I've always had with Rose Tyler. She's also always been a terrible person, but the show and the Doctor himself (especially 10) always treated her like she was this perfect and amazing person... Even though the show didn't even try to hide her *many* failings, it also somehow still told us to ignore those failings.

I can't even call Rose, (or Mariner for that matter) a 'Mary Sue'. A Mary Sue is "perfect" in every way, to the detriment of the story even. If anything, they're both *anti* Mary Sues, in that they are anything *but* perfect, and yet we are all for some reason supposed to pretend that they still *are* perfect, despite the show not even trying to hide all evidence to the contrary... I absolutely hate that archetype. -_-

I feel ya.

I actually define Mary Sues as story-warping characters regardless of perfection (for the reasons you described). If they bend normal logic, story logic, and/or moral logic around them in a way that nobody else does in the story, they are Mary Sues. I think a strong case could be made of what I've seen with Rose. Amy Pond less so but they danced up to the line a few times. Claire definitely yes.

 

[drtoboggan]

Back in 2004 I was a delivery driver and had to bring pizza to a house on Carnoustie Court. I always thought that would be a great name for a Doctor Who planet.

Anyhoozle, we need a poll for worst companion. I'm torn between Mel and Rose.