Dragon Ball Thread - RIP Akira Toriyama

[Friendly Primarina]

but the moment he starts is the moment he equals Goku. (Super Saiyan Blue, etc)

Once Vegeta learns SSJB, Goku develops SSJB Kaioken. When Vegeta gets his dumb sparkly form, Goku masters Ultra Instinct. In addition to learning the Kamehameha after seeing just once, he also mastered the Kaioken inside a year. No matter how you slice it, Goku is a once-in-a-generation prodigy. No matter how hard any character tries, not just Vegeta, they can't close the gap.

Consider that Vegeta almost never trained for the first 3 decades of his life yet can easily keep up with Goku who never stops. It's not about his talent, it's about his mindset.

What? Vegeta spent his childhood as a child soldier in Frieza's army. We don't see much of his childhood, but we do see him training while shocked grunts look on.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

What? Vegeta spent his childhood as a child soldier in Frieza's army. We don't see much of his childhood, but we do see him training while shocked grunts look on.

Non canon filler slop.
Nobody in Freeza's army trained. Saiyans especially didn't train. They just abused Oozaru to sweep tough fights.
Don't argue when you don't even know what's canon.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Non canon filler slop.
Nobody in Freeza's army trained. Saiyans especially didn't train. They just abused Oozaru to sweep tough fights.
Don't argue when you don't even know what's canon.

> not canon because i don't like it
Lmao ok. When in "canon" does it say they never train? "Vegeta almost never trained for the first 3 decades of his life" is a pretty ludicrous statement that you should back up.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

> not canon because i don't like it
Lmao ok. When in "canon" does it say they never train? "Vegeta almost never trained for the first 3 decades of his life" is a pretty ludicrous statement that you should back up.

It's not canon because nothing Z exclusive is canon to Dragonball. Vegeta was born strong and never felt the need to train.
Saiyans didn't train. This is a thing.
The only way Saiyans got stronger was with Zenkais, which they didn't get often thanks to Oozaru making them easily clear.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Saiyans didn't train. This is a thing.
The only way Saiyans got stronger was with Zenkais, which they didn't get often thanks to Oozaru making them easily clear.

Prove it. Where does it say Vegeta never trained?

 

[Local FloRida-man]

This is literally how Goku unlocks SSJ, though. You could also argue that he was "born right" since he's the Mozart to Vegeta's Salieri.

Goku is all but stated to be the saiyan equivalent of a tard. As a kid he gets bodied by an untrained Yamcha throwing gang signs. As a teen, tien who's special ability is being Chinese, almost kills him. After training with kami and essentially achieving enlightenment through the super sacred waters, he still struggles with an elderly king piccolo (basically half a namekian). After running the length of the after life and training with a Kai, he's still way weaker than vegeta. If nappa went through half of that he would've been supreme king of the universe by now.

Ssj though was the result of everything above and more, not just him being angry. It was Gokus hard work, the spiritual teachings he absorbed on earth, and the pieces of the saiyan prophecy all falling into place.

Super Hero revealed he was learning that in secret.

I keep forgetting shit from super hero because I just know beast and orange are going to get the mystic treatment i.e. they'll get molested the moment they try it out in another fight.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Goku is all but stated to be the saiyan equivalent of a tard. As a kid he gets bodied by an untrained Yamcha throwing gang signs. As a teen, tien who's special ability is being Chinese, almost kills him. After training with kami and essentially achieving enlightenment through the super sacred waters, he still struggles with an elderly king piccolo (basically half a namekian). After running the length of the after life and training with a Kai, he's still way weaker than vegeta. If nappa went through half of that he would've been supreme king of the universe by now.

This is comparing apples to oranges, since we don't know what Nappa went through. Of the characters we see, nobody improves the way Goku does. He goes from being weaker that Raditz, to stronger than Nappa (even Vegeta is shocked by how quickly he improved), to stronger than Vegeta in the space of just over a year. I really didn't think "Goku is a prodigy" would be a controversial statement, considering he leaves everyone in the dust and quickly masters new techniques, sometimes better than their inventors

This isn't denigrating the hard work Goku puts into training. All the Z Fighters work hard. But they can't overcome the skill gap caused by Goku's natural ability.

 

[Gravityqueen4life]

Goku is like the exact opposite of that trope. He started out as an overpowered idiot savant that steamrolled basically everyone and learned moves that took Roshi decades to create in seconds. Goku was 11 or 12 at this point btw.

Him ackshually being a weakling compared to [insert_new_villain_here] who has [insert_backstory_here] with Goku is pretty much just an excuse to have a story arc with the latest villain and him training (99% of the time offscreen lol) is just an excuse to justify him being competitive in the arc with the opposition.

Even the weakest sayian is a giga chad compared to the strongest human. He was sent there to destroy the planet after all. And before you say anything, yes, Sayians weren't a thing in the original DB but Goku was still a parody of a monkey god.

Part of the reason Vegeta allowed himself to fall under Babidi's spell was because he realized he could never overcome Goku's natural ability. No matter how hard he trains Goku is always one step ahead, and he makes it look effortless. That's the point.

Vegeta is kinda retarded when it comes to training because all he dose is push up and sit ups under heavy gravity while Goku got to learn all sorts of martial arts and techniques under different masters, going through all kinds of different trails and training. When Vegeta finally throws away his pride and asks Whis to train him, He got results almost instantly because he got taken out of his comfort zone.

Is Goku a fighting prodigy? I would say yes. He is naturally gifted when it comes to fighting (most sayians are) but unlike most, he took his time to improve and never stopped wanting to improve himself. Its why he wants to learn from the best, to fight opponents that are just as strong, if not stronger then him. that's the (was) difference between him and Vegeta. Vegeta was fine getting stronger the fastest way possible while a Goku was fine taking his time to learn.

 

[Ravana]

Why did Gohan stop wearing the Saiyaman helmet? I get he couldn’t wear it for the tournament, but after that in the movies and any other appearance in Z he should be wearing the helmet. Especially if Videl is also going to be wearing the helmet.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

Why did Gohan stop wearing the Saiyaman helmet? I get he couldn’t wear it for the tournament, but after that in the movies and any other appearance in Z he should be wearing the helmet. Especially if Videl is also going to be wearing the helmet.

Sadly we have no answer for that.

I guess it just boils down to the people working on the animations liking the bandana look more, unfortunately.

 

[Cave Fisher]

I never was a big Gohan fan, and I've been annoyed with his stans shitting on anything not the cell saga for over a decade now. I think he'd make a bad main character, since unlike Goku he's content to just stick to the daily grind.

That's probably the biggest reason he never really panned out as Goku's successor. Gohan's more straight laced, homebody demeanor isn't a natural fit for Dragon Ball's world, and everytime they need him to close the gap without him constantly training and travelling like Goku they just go "He got really angry and unlocked his hidden potential!" all the time. Truth is, Goku's always been the best protagonist for dragon ball because most of the other characters aren't as well-travelled or interested in fighting outside of necessity, I feel like most of the other cast would accept being teleported back to earth in the Frieza saga instead of hanging out on Yardrat and learning instant transmission for it if they were in his shoes, for instance.

> not canon because i don't like it
Lmao ok. When in "canon" does it say they never train? "Vegeta almost never trained for the first 3 decades of his life" is a pretty ludicrous statement that you should back up.

Frieza's army's ENTIRE strategy and reason for being so powerful was just going around the universe grabbing up mutant freaks who were stronger than everybody, because they were ruled by mutant freaks who were stronger than everybody.

 

[Turtles McDougal]

The sheer idea of Vegeta not training and relying on Zenkais and Oozaru, then deciding to fight Goku because he's a wee farmer sayain, then gets clapped by him and becomes an Oozaru for the salty runback...adds another level I was not aware of.

 

[Rick The Stick]

Murata(the One Punch guy) really likes Toriyama. I was catching up on on the manga and idk if I'm just noticing it more than I did before or if he started really leaning on the influence. Either way it's cool to see and I'd kill to for a full chapter in his style. Even if it would take a million years with 6 chapters worth of redraws.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

> not canon because i don't like it
Lmao ok. When in "canon" does it say they never train? "Vegeta almost never trained for the first 3 decades of his life" is a pretty ludicrous statement that you should back up.

In Super, Vegeta states that he never trained under a master until Whis.

So if he did train it was basically just him doing push-ups by himself rather than actually being taught.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

So if he did train it was basically just him doing push-ups by himself rather than actually being taught.

This is what I took training to mean. A regimented set of actions to condition one's body and mind. Hopefully it's obvious why I thought "Vegeta never trained" was such a ridiculous statement, since whenever we see him not in combat he's just training for the next fight and there's no reason to assume he was different before.

Anyway, I appreciate an answer instead of just spamming "I know you're right" stickers.

 

[Gay Sex Enjoyer]

I guess "Vegeta was never trained" would be more accurate than "Vegeta never trained".

Technically every battle and zenkai is training, and he did that a bunch even under Frieza.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

I guess "Vegeta was never trained" would be more accurate than "Vegeta never trained".

Technically every battle and zenkai is training, and he did that a bunch even under Frieza.

Technically, every battle and Zenkai only counts as training for Saiyans if they push themselves extremely hard. Which Vegeta, being the strongest soldier in Freeza's entire army when he used Oozaru, never actually had reason to. (180,000 means that he'd crush literally everyone)
Remember that Cui was Vegeta's longtime rival, yet the moment Vegeta got ONE Zenkai, he instantly turned him into fireworks. Vegeta up until Goku very much had stagnant strength, just about everyone in Freeza's army is, the Ginyu Force seemingly didn't get any stronger in outright decades, same for Zarbon and Dodoria. People in Freeza's army don't train (Including Freeza himself), they're all basically just intergalactic bullies.
It's not that Goku is more talented than anybody else, it's that everyone else is playing catch-up to him, because he's been training for his entire life, both on his own and under masters, building up good foundations and training technique, meanwhile his rivals like Piccolo, who was nearly equal to him as a 3 year old who trained by himself, or Vegeta, who was far stronger than him even with all of the training Goku did, are all easily bigger prodigies than him.

 

[Gondolindrim]

I genuinely only use the DBM site for Goten-kun's comics. Not the best artistically but they're leagues above the main comic.
He has some weird hate boner for the Mafuba. Which I kinda understand honestly.

Looking at the main comic comment section, God damn fuck that Iron Leaf janny is a faggot.
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>the tournament was never the focus
lmao, what a cope

Although, not all jannies are happy.
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Increasingly (unfortunately) frequent update on Dragon Ball Multiverse.
The Multiverse Tournament has finally ended after 17 years.
The finale was just Goku getting killed in one attack after going into his new (not ultra instinct) form.
The villain copied the out of nowhere plot device timestop of a joke character from a few chapters ago and just instantly killed Goku in his new form without effort and Goku just died.
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I've been observing the comment section, and it's been fairly wild.
Sockpuppets are telling the mods to kill themselves and posting Salagir's email after one of them decided to delete most of the fairly civil discussion going on in the comments and then said "Let's try again and not get emotional " just because people weren't happy with subverted expectations and having the literal hero of DB die like a chump.

The magic wank in this dogshit story is absolutely fucking unreal. It'd be OK if we hadn't literally already seen a character with Time Stop in DBZ being unable to really do much to people in timestop, but the wank must go on.

DBM ended? I guess it only makes sense; in the time since they started that fanfiction comic, the series came back twice, the author died, and then interest waned again because Daima turned out to be shit. Salagir probably realized that he's legitimately wasted years of his life doing this. Well I guess I can finally come back and finish reading it, I had a policiy of checking in every 3 years to see if there's been progress.

 

[Smack Patrick]

DBM ended?

Only the tournament arc ended. Now it's the "adventure" arc or whatever the fuck the Frenchman is planning.

 

[Symbol of the Chud]

Only the tournament arc ended. Now it's the "adventure" arc or whatever the fuck the Frenchman is planning.

We're in the "spikes kill half the cast offscreen" arc, where characters are cracking jokes and messing around not 6 pages since the violent deaths of Bra (the non mary sue version) Videl and Trunks.