Dune Part 2 is (one of) the best Sci-Fi i ever watched.

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Oddjob OTP said:
Mentats are just savants trained with drugs and handwavy techniques that in the end isn't that much more fantastic then what real people do in real life. Voice is somewhat strained, but both prescience and the genetic memory are more science fantasy then fiction. But Frank wanted to tell a story about the trap of prescience so that kind of comes with the territory. Later books become a lot more fantastical like worm control, super speed, detecting through completely undetectable invisibility fields just because, etc.
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I always thought of prescience as the endpoint of combining mentat turbo intelligence and Bene Gesserit master social engineering ability. The two halves combined means you can see the future in both how objects and people behave.
 
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N Space said:
I genuinely don't get the fascination for the story of 2001 A Space Odyssey
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I do. When that film came out, there was nothing - nothing - that looked like it. No-one had ever made spacecraft and space effects look so real (inb4 muh Fake Moon Landing ). It was also a time when people had much longer spans of concentration and could sit still for a long story. The Dirty Harry films were considered exciting and shocking when they were released but anyone born after about 1990 would find them very slow and lacking in action.
 
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wtfNeedSignUp said:
I always thought of prescience as the endpoint of combining mentat turbo intelligence and Bene Gesserit master social engineering ability. The two halves combined means you can see the future in both how objects and people behave.
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IIRC Lady Jessica says prescience in the Paul Atrades form and not the Guild Navigator is a inherited mutation that enables a male to take the water of life. The water of life forces women into a total crisis that makes them have to access all their past lives to get past it. A man taking the water of life has to do that, but he also look into the future at the same time to get past the crisis. This sort of implies it's sex chromosome linked which is kind of dumb but whatever. There's also a female bene gesserit in the later books who has prescience linked to one topic for whatever reason but Leto II took over their breeding program and no one really knows what he was aiming for.

I actually don't think the partial Mentat training Paul had was prescribed for becoming prescient. It was just something Duke Leto got his son trained in, if nothing else Feyd-Rautha was never trained in it, although it was supposed to be the next generation that produced the Kwisatz Haderach so I dunno

I don't really think they ever go much into Guild Navigator's prescience unless you really want to generalize what happens to the genius dwarf lady Mary Sue who took too much spice and founded the Spacing Guild after being turned into a 2001 Space Baby in the post-Frank Butlerian Jihad books.
 
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Iron Jaguar said:
I do. When that film came out, there was nothing - nothing - that looked like it. No-one had ever made spacecraft and space effects look so real (inb4 muh Fake Moon Landing ). It was also a time when people had much longer spans of concentration and could sit still for a long story. The Dirty Harry films were considered exciting and shocking when they were released but anyone born after about 1990 would find them very slow and lacking in action.
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The cinematography is top-notch I agree, but the story itself doesn't strike me as particularly good, certainly not good enough to claim nothing better than it has came since the 2020's.
 
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wtfNeedSignUp said:
I always wondered whether Mentats and Bene Gessrrit Voice was psychic in nature or just the edge of human capabilities once you advanced well enough into brain/emotional manipulation. Those two are really the biggest fantastical parts of the setting
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I always assumed it was psychic but with a physical/psychological pseudo-explanation thrown on top of it, like the Bene Gessrrit and aristocracy are atheistic, or at most agnostic, but the explanations don't actually jive with the outcome and break their ideas of a purely physical/deterministic reality. Probably my deeply schizophrenic view on religion popping through more than anything though.

TL;DR they're playing with forces they don't understand and think they're too smurt for paranormal stuff. Think it's not mysterious because they gave it a name.

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N Space said:
The cinematography is top-notch I agree, but the story itself doesn't strike me as particularly good, certainly not good enough to claim nothing better than it has came since the 2020's.
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Like all of his best remembered work, it's all visual with little story backing it up. I don't think we've had sci-fi look as realistic since though. Everything more modern that's chasing it tends to overdo it and end up in the uncanny valley.
 
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N Space said:
The cinematography is top-notch I agree, but the story itself doesn't strike me as particularly good, certainly not good enough to claim nothing better than it has came since the 2020's.
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I can't think of a single other thing that would stand a chance on competing in the 2020s unless you really really like Avatar 2. 2020s Scifi is an absolute softball category though between the Chink Flu and the writer's strike. The bar is real low.
 
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I really really like the movie, but the freeman are OP as fuck (which they were also in the book) which I had issues with (come on, let me se sardaukar at least cut down SOME of them).
Chani was the weakest part in the movie as I find Zendaya to come across as looking very frumpy.
The art and set design was awesome. I enjoyed that the parts we saw of Harrkonians world were so different from Arrakas (it was so brightly lit) and that everyone there were baldies.
 
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Foltest said:
I really really like the movie, but the freeman are OP as fuck (which they were also in the book) which I had issues with (come on, let me se sardaukar at least cut down SOME of them).
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Honestly its a problem almost all media has, theyll have some very bad power faction but portray them as bumbling idiots that cant tie their shoes so if youre not a braindead window licker youre left asking how can these retards become so powerful?

It also doesnt help they went out of their way to portray the Harkonen as supposedly dangerous/threatening "THEYRE BRUUUUUUUUUUTAL!". Oh but the Sardaukar are so metal they are baptized in the blood of the unworthy who die in training while some tibetan chad blasts some throat music. Oh but Atriedes are the *finest* fighters in the universe trained by the very best! Oh but the Fremen are actually the unparreleled fighters of the universe, harden but eons of life on Dune!

There was no scale, logical sense of where the factions fit. At the end of the day it comes off as MCUesque nonsense of random who cares bad guys dying while practically none of the *good guys* are harmed.
Iron Jaguar said:
It was also a time when people had much longer spans of concentration and could sit still for a long story.
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I just dont see it story wise when it comes to 2001. An absolute visual masterpiece, but storywise its incredibly flat. Of course Im not one to buy into the whole tell as little as possible to make it seem more interesting/deep than it actually is.
 
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74164978231 said:
Honestly its a problem almost all media has, theyll have some very bad power faction but portray them as bumbling idiots that cant tie their shoes so if youre not a braindead window licker youre left asking how can these retards become so powerful?

It also doesnt help they went out of their way to portray the Harkonen as supposedly dangerous/threatening "THEYRE BRUUUUUUUUUUTAL!". Oh but the Sardaukar are so metal they are baptized in the blood of the unworthy who die in training while some tibetan chad blasts some throat music. Oh but Atriedes are the *finest* fighters in the universe trained by the very best! Oh but the Fremen are actually the unparreleled fighters of the universe, harden but eons of life on Dune!

There was no scale, logical sense of where the factions fit. At the end of the day it comes off as MCUesque nonsense of random who cares bad guys dying while practically none of the *good guys* are harmed.
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The Sardukar suffer the most from ninja syndrome. I guess you can given them dumb Zack Synder/Wachowski scenes where they mow down a bunch of Atriedes grunts, but it still doesn't cover up that they're faceless and ultimately disposable to Duncan. My problem with modern movie battles is that they don't look at the weapons they use and determine what are the best battlefield use of their equipment. It is just people running around punching things. Compare the Lord of the Rings like Helms Deep where there is a set procedure of how characters are supposed to fight in a siege and every weapon is used more or less as they should in that context. Cavalry is generally used to hit the flank, Orcs set up pikemen to try to stop that advance, archers fire from high positions, sappers try to sneak their way to the weak point, and the heavy infantry bring in a battering ram and siege towers to get inside. These battles make sense because they understand how this medieval equipment is supposed to work.

The MCU and Dune for that matter suffer from having tons of equipment with special rules that would, if competently used, change the entire nature of how battles function, so they resort to people running at each other. It's a little more excusable with the MCU because there aren't that many superheroes and even though they have the infinite ammo cheat on, they're always outnumbered, but Dune battles should be more like LotR battles or as I mentioned in the other thread, like in Zulu, but they would break the battle scenes as planned.
74164978231 said:
I just dont see it story wise when it comes to 2001. An absolute visual masterpiece, but storywise its incredibly flat. Of course Im not one to buy into the whole tell as little as possible to make it seem more interesting/deep than it actually is.
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The Jack Kirby comic is the best adaptation of 2001. You get his art style plus the narration in the book so you don't get lost. Which is the biggest problem with the movie; it is very easy to not understand why you're watching what you're watching. That's how you end up with Hal being the best character; finally there's some tension in the story when really Moonshadow also has some good drama too beyond throwing the bone in the air.
 
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"Realistic" battles based on equpment available in the Dune universe would be swarms of expendable remotely controlled las-armed drones lasering everything that is not shielded and taking everything that is shielded with them in mutual explosions. Or if that is prevented from work by another layer of technobabble, they would consist of two densely packed masses of people pushing against each other, in an even more boring fashion than in RL melee combat between forces disciplined enough to actually fight in melee, until the weaker side breaks.

However, making something that would not normally be much of spectacle into one is the job description of visual designers and battle choreographers. This job was not done well. Just for one example of something that was fairly simple to do and yet was not done - you have hard time telling who is on which side in battles, particularly in case of Sardaukar vs. Fremen, which have almost the same color palette. Why no one wears brightly colored uniforms, which historically were used until the concerns of camouflage became overwhelming not only because of the desire to look crisp but to solve the very same problem of telling "us" and "them" apart?
 
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IDanceonTrannyGraves said:
Zendaya is a shit actress and Villeneuve literally admits to rewriting Dune to make her character more prominant. It's feminist trash.

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Don't care. If you read the book you would know that actually this movie does a favour by portraying Chani as a annoying and whiny teenager instead of the strong fighter you see in the book.
 
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who are the spacing guild? don't know not in the movie, who are the Sardakar? don't know they are not in this movie some space celts that got forgotten in part 1. what are the trelax don't know not in the movie. any one who thinks this pile of shit is good have no care of the source material, you are mental midjets who deserve this great pile of shit 1 out 5 stars.

I would rather read every Brian Herbert Nu dune books before ever watching this shit again, and the Brian Herbert books are shit thats saying somthing.
 
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