Dwarf Fortress adds trans dwarves - basement dwellers who are confused about their sexuality are outraged.

[Terror Rism]

You say that like you forgot when he first added gays and all your livestock stopped breeding and you had no idea why until Dwarf Therapist got updated.

livestock is for cucks with access to the surface
we live on child farmed cave meat or tranny dicks

 

[Diesel Boogaloo]

They're dwarves, how can you tell anyways?

In DF, female dwarves don't have beards and all male dwarves have beards.
Therefore, an FTM dwarf would look like a woman attending stoning in Life of Brian.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

At least the Dwarves can use magic to actually change their sex/gender instead of just hacking off their dicks, popping titty skittles and demanding everyone pretend they aren't just mutilated freaks.

 

[autism420]

Looks like my subtitle was fitting.

 

[griefsquirrel]

Now that dwarf fortress is coming to steam I think Adams just goes for the maximum amount of money he can harvest with it, by making the game as crowd pleasing and ticking off as many boxes as he's able to. He's romanticized as this developer who follows his dreams (and he has inspired many people in all these years) and saying anything bad about him is frowned upon, but honestly in the last few years he most of all made the impression on me of a guy who's trapped in a thing and doesn't know how to get out. He has proven several times that he's not a good programmer, or massively interested to become one for that matter. From when his notebook broke a while ago, you could even gather that he's not even really interested/knows much about computers. (yes, two different things as I am aware, still) When the topic of his future came up, he often seemed anxious, probably because he'd be stuck in doing that game. I actually believe he wants out. Dude is in his 40s now. He threw his career in mathematics mostly because he had a meltdown at the thought of having to sit in an office all day. Also honestly, I don't believe he's worked always as much as he claimed. I'm pretty sure there were phases were months went by and he did absolutely nothing. Not that I cannot understand this, but publicly he always acted like he's this very hard working guy who works on df 24/7 and yeah. I just don't buy it. Especially at the speed things were going. If he'd been honest it would've probably cut into donations. Also working on df is good and nice but career-wise has absolutely no meaning outside of the games industry in which he has no applicable skills and is more of an outsider artist.

I honestly never thought dwarf fortress was very good. It has a lot of complexity yes and the world generation is cool, but a lot of that complexity (like body parts and 300 different kinds of wood and stuff like that) is stuff computers do well by their nature, it's not really complexity in systems, it's just huge data sets that often don't even really do anything. You sometimes see hints of emergent stuff here and there, and it's really cool when it happens, but it does not happen often and usually more on accident than anything, as he never goes back to fix systems or integrate them well with each other. The actual game mechanics aren't all that complicated and the game is actually quite easy to play as soon as you've managed to parse the terrible UI. The usual end of the game is either by heat death of your CPU, a showstopper bug or the nature that there's absolutely no game balance whatsoever and you might run into a situation where you're just fucked no matter what. Dwarf fortress made itself a name by being like this and people playing it consider this fun. Other games wouldn't get away with it.

This might actually work out well for him. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that he's gonna earn a lot of money when the game comes out on steam. Video games are not about good technical execution or creativity these days anymore, they're mostly PR - and he has a hell of a name. He's probably also taking a good time to cash out as the market starts collapsing on itself. The current industry is not sustainable, especially for small time developers. The market is utterly over-saturated.

Sorry for the long rant but I could never say anything only slightly negative about Toady or df anywhere else without being shot down. I feel this forum might be more accepting of viewpoints that aren't crowd-approved.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

Looks like my subtitle was fitting.

Well, I'm neither confused about my sexuality (I'm bi with a heavy preference for women, though there are certain guys I would fuck if I had the chance. I.E: John Stamos) nor outraged. It could actually be an interesting system to add if it's deeper than just changing an M to an F and vice versa on the charactet sheet with no further ramifications for the Dwarf involved.
In a fantasy world there are a lot of interesting possibilities for changing your sex. Potions, spells, divine intervention. Hell, you could even argue that a Dwarf who transitions through magic might be functionally the same as and Dwarf that's naturally that gender

I'm actually looking forward to the Steam release since they say it'll include a graphical update. Dwarf Fortress is a pretty good game, it deserves graphics that look as good as the game is. Plus I wont have to download a bunch of 3rd party mods that let me see my damn fortress.

 

[D'edge]

This game has nocturnal monsters that kidnap humanoids of the opposite sex to turn them into their mates.

How’s that going to work when there’s transgenders involved?

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

There are a few issues with this.

One, dwarf fortress is in some ways about outrageously hideous stark reality. Playing along with someone's delusion doesn't fit that well. And what happens when your "Trans fem" dwarf suffers a gelding wound? Will the medical dwarves have to say no your testicles weren't cut off, you're just suffering a really heavy period!

Secondly, the max size by default of your fortress is 150. Statistically, you should never see a trans dwarf if they're represented in the same ratio as in real life.

Third, this is dumb woke shit that's part of an ongoing trend of dumb woke shit. This is something being worked on instead of something else. It's obviously Toady's call, but I don't have to think it's a good one.

Fourth, this is just another part of our culture bending the knee to the trans lie. The more stuff that just goes along with trans bullshit the more it just becomes accepted fact.

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

Now that dwarf fortress is coming to steam I think Adams just goes for the maximum amount of money he can harvest with it, by making the game as crowd pleasing and ticking off as many boxes as he's able to.

That could very well be the case, but to me, it seems more to me that he is genuinely making his own creative choices. My take is that Toady is a dude so far on the spectrum that he's incapable of communicating normally. He started getting flack because regardless of his motivations, he created the perception that he was throwing his hat into the culture war bullshit that people are getting increasingly sick and tired of(the wealth of pronoun accounts he regularly corresponds with on Twitter didn't help that perception). This meant he suddenly faced much more scrutiny much more quickly than he's accustomed to, which presumably lead him to start mass-blocking in a reflexive attempt to make the whole thing go away. Unfortunately, when you start blocking critics, that makes it difficult to give the benefit of the doubt, and it's going to limit the appeal of his product. To be fair, he may not even care about that. He's gotten by for decades in an ultra-niche market due to his single-minded fixation on his style of game, and unless he really goes off the deep end I doubt he's going to lose much, if any, of the core audience/income that lets him comfortably focus on his game.

I'll be honest, transgenderism does feel out of place in a medieval setting, and the fact that he's starting to block people, regardless of the reason, leaves me pessimistic that he's going to go deeper into an echo chamber than even his development style can work in. Only time will tell ultimately whether this is a blip on the radar or a red flag indicating serious problems down the road.

 

[Secret Asshole]

I mean, Dwarf Fortress is just going to eventually collapse under its own weight. The code base is a fucking mess, the UI is a fucking living nightmare and the thing can melt an i9 CPU faster than you can say 'Generate World'.

I mean, ultimately this shit can probably be excised with a mod or just exiling all trannies. I mean, I live in a highly populated area and I've only met 1 tranny in my life. They're 0.3% of the population. Maybe, MAYBE a couple hundred thousand. I'm just fucking tired of hearing this shit. If you REALLY want to be a woman, would you bitch about there not being enough trans characters?

 

[DrearyDoomguy]

I personally never looked into what goes on under the hood, but I can agree 100% that the UI is a trainwreck. The game is frankly unplayable without the DFFD starter packs and all the tools they come with to streamline the controls. Of course, as long as the thing actually runs without crashing, the fanbase has the constant fallback of "it's a niche title, if you don't like the dysfunctional nature it just isn't for you." Which is an effective explanation because it's mostly true, at least for the f2p+dono version.
However, that shit will not fly on Steam with the paid version, which to be fair will apparently be a total overhaul by a different dev. Steam reviewers are notoriously tough on Early Access games, and unless the paid version is a snapshot version, it's going to be a bloodbath if they try to market the game in its present form. When you charge big boy bucks for a product, expect to get absolutely fucking dragged if that product doesn't measure up to expectations.

 

[c-no]

If you're unable to enjoy a game because there are trans characters in it, maybe you're the one with the problem

Then again if you're unable to enjoy a game because there aren't trans characters in it you might also have a problem

Everyone needs to lol calm down imo

If one really had to be upset at trans dwarves, they should realize: all the dwarves suffer, even the ones that are trans. This would simply allow those evil transphobes to find new ways to torment those pixellated virtual trans dwarves. In the end, the TERFS will win.

This whole meme of making your video game characters gay or trans in games like Overwatch, Apex Legends, this, etc. is exceptional. I'm just trying to shoot people who literally gives a shit if Soldier 76 has a husband.

Beyond anyone thinking such things must be landmarks in games where story simply takes a backseat and the like. As annoying as such a thing is for some, one can only wonder how long before they can milk the angle of "repeatedly killing the trans/gay character."

 

[Trigger Me Timbers]

I ent mad, however its a risky move adding any "protected" class to a game where you can chain them up in a cage and throw anyone into a volcano.

There are Gay and Bi and Asex dorfs in game, it has such little impact on gameplay, I only learned that some of my dorfs smoked poll when I loaded up a 3rdparty game save viewer. Also another dude already said but some male dorf wear dresses just because it was the only clean cloths available.

I have been temped for a while to do a DF "progressive play-through" where I throw all cis dorf into magma, promote only female and darker dorfs, accept all migrants and residential permits whiles only eating vegan and not hurting anyone.

 

[Trigger Me Timbers]

was feeling extra autistic

 

[Your Weird Fetish]

Now that dwarf fortress is coming to steam I think Adams just goes for the maximum amount of money he can harvest with it, by making the game as crowd pleasing and ticking off as many boxes as he's able to. He's romanticized as this developer who follows his dreams (and he has inspired many people in all these years) and saying anything bad about him is frowned upon, but honestly in the last few years he most of all made the impression on me of a guy who's trapped in a thing and doesn't know how to get out. He has proven several times that he's not a good programmer, or massively interested to become one for that matter. From when his notebook broke a while ago, you could even gather that he's not even really interested/knows much about computers. (yes, two different things as I am aware, still) When the topic of his future came up, he often seemed anxious, probably because he'd be stuck in doing that game. I actually believe he wants out. Dude is in his 40s now. He threw his career in mathematics mostly because he had a meltdown at the thought of having to sit in an office all day. Also honestly, I don't believe he's worked always as much as he claimed. I'm pretty sure there were phases were months went by and he did absolutely nothing. Not that I cannot understand this, but publicly he always acted like he's this very hard working guy who works on df 24/7 and yeah. I just don't buy it. Especially at the speed things were going. If he'd been honest it would've probably cut into donations. Also working on df is good and nice but career-wise has absolutely no meaning outside of the games industry in which he has no applicable skills and is more of an outsider artist.

I honestly never thought dwarf fortress was very good. It has a lot of complexity yes and the world generation is cool, but a lot of that complexity (like body parts and 300 different kinds of wood and stuff like that) is stuff computers do well by their nature, it's not really complexity in systems, it's just huge data sets that often don't even really do anything. You sometimes see hints of emergent stuff here and there, and it's really cool when it happens, but it does not happen often and usually more on accident than anything, as he never goes back to fix systems or integrate them well with each other. The actual game mechanics aren't all that complicated and the game is actually quite easy to play as soon as you've managed to parse the terrible UI. The usual end of the game is either by heat death of your CPU, a showstopper bug or the nature that there's absolutely no game balance whatsoever and you might run into a situation where you're just fucked no matter what. Dwarf fortress made itself a name by being like this and people playing it consider this fun. Other games wouldn't get away with it.

This might actually work out well for him. There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that he's gonna earn a lot of money when the game comes out on steam. Video games are not about good technical execution or creativity these days anymore, they're mostly PR - and he has a hell of a name. He's probably also taking a good time to cash out as the market starts collapsing on itself. The current industry is not sustainable, especially for small time developers. The market is utterly over-saturated.

Sorry for the long rant but I could never say anything only slightly negative about Toady or df anywhere else without being shot down. I feel this forum might be more accepting of viewpoints that aren't crowd-approved.

Modern Dwarf Fortress is the Emperor's New Clothes in game form. People like what they imagine it might be and everyone else just goes along with the delusion. It hasn't actually been a good game since it was 2d.

This game has nocturnal monsters that kidnap humanoids of the opposite sex to turn them into their mates.

How’s that going to work when there’s transgenders involved?

Like my porn fanfic.

 

[Recoil]

Or make them open a patreon

My sides, they're coming loose

 

[Trigger Me Timbers]

This whole idea of trans game characters is a fucking paradoxical nightmare

Let’s just take the basic scenario, a male dwarf is now female, fine. Now if we swallow what every mainstream talking head is telling us, the male dwarf is a WOMAN no questions asked. Fine, but will this new female dorf be able to give birth? I mean to the player the dorf is a woman right?

Ok so to stop 1000000 big reports along the lines of “female dwarfs can’t get pregnant” we Can just mark them as transgender? Wait now we are outting them and dead naming them...

And this is dwarf fortress where each dwarf has a history, will becoming a tranny be on that history? Will the dwarf strike out with one too many females and become a troon? What about the suicide rate? What about transition times, will there be new surgeries? Can a chief medicaldwarf lop off a willy? Can they transition back? Will dwarfs have a prefrenace for being with cis or troons?


The entire transgender movement is basically only based around transgender people who can’t passes for the gender they want to be. Passable troons just live as that gender and live life like the rest of us. But the ugly beasts who just look like dudes in dresses and need to change laws to make us fall in line, they need to be “represented” even though if they should be as represented as much as women or men are in media because that’s what they want to be, not some hideous chimera that scares children.

Yes I am triggererd.

Addition
I am triggered because I think the current system of sexual preferences is totally serviceable, it makes sense from a gameplay angle and gets all the positive sjw press, this gender bending crap is going to cause more issues since I’m told transgenderisum is “deeply personal and each person has a different reason” to have a shallow world gen algorithm dictate it will end up triggering more fags then it pleases. Not to mention will probably confuse more players (which let’s be honest, DF is already done I. The confusion department)

 

[Corbin Dallas Multipass]

Modern Dwarf Fortress is the Emperor's New Clothes in game form. People like what they imagine it might be and everyone else just goes along with the delusion. It hasn't actually been a good game since it was 2d.

Eh, I don't know if I'd go that far. It's playable as a game, and can be enjoyable as such. I'm not much for wildly imagining stories to go with my little ascii dwarves, honestly I don't give a shit about the rainbow colored bio except I wish I could read the shit that actually matters a little easier.

I like when funny shit just happens due to the interactions of the systems. Like the bug with the cats constantly dying of alcohol poisoning due to cleaning spilled beer off their paws in the tavern. That's fucking hilarious to me, because nobody had that intention.

The game, such as it is, is pretty similar to something like rimworld. I mean, you've got way more dudes, but you're still managing orders for dudes to do, occasionally being raided, trying to feed all your dudes, sell shit, etc. And with the army updates the world is expanding, you can take over other sites and stuff.

It's just for the basic core of a game that's in there, you've got a bazillion rough edges and a wacky dense UI to navigate. There's nothing attempting to pretend to be balance, a lot of things are a fucking chore to do, and typically the only challenge is what you make for yourself. Once you've figured it out, it's like a lot of those other games, it gets repetitive.

Now, some people seem to really love all the weird little details about each of their dwarves, and making up stories, or just doing whatever weird fucked up shit popped into their heads, and that can be fun to read, although I'm certainly not going to do it.

I mean, DF is free, and the dude lives off donations freely given to him. I can't hold it against him for doing whatever the fuck he wants. I can wish he would do some things differently, but I'd say DF is better now than when I started playing with version .34(I think, it was a long time ago). That said, I typically play about 12 hours of dwarf fortress per new version now, so eh... maybe my opinion isn't worth much.

 

[Poppymuffin]

“Trans dwarves are in the Steam version” ok cool
“Bay12 are actively shutting down anyone who critisizes the decision” ok not cool

In all seriousness, I only have two gripes with this: one, will this be a Steam only version thing, because if so, this might be a slope to the two versions actively getting even more differences between them, which.... it shouldn’t.
Secondly: how will this impact the game? Like, seriously, what will the difference be? Will there be any other than what gender they’re called compared to their description? Will they behave differently? How will this affect the game is the main point, but they don’t seem to be addressing that, instead caring more about “it’s a thing! ” and shutting down anyone else who has so much as a somewhat negative view of this. And Bay12 of ALL people shutting down critisism, no matter what it’s about, is an INCREDIBLY scary thought.
(Coming from someone who has played DF for 3 years)

 

[DragoonSierra]

Well I mean dwarf women do have beards