Elden Ring

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wtfNeedSignUp said:
So what are exactly the Lands Between? The name make it sound more like a place between world rather than a world by itself. Is it some Witcher ripoff where the world is occupied by people coming from different dimensions?
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They are the lands between the others in the sea of fog. I can't remember where its mentioned, probably the intro. Map has fog around the edges. Land of reeds is one example of a land outside the lands between.
 
Hit a roadblock on my consumable only character.
I'm trying to kill the bell bearing hunter in caelid's isolated merchant shack.
So far standing on the roof and throwing poison at him has been ineffective and doesn't work
Does anyone know of some way to make him walk off a cliff or something
 
Gimmick Account said:
I've already posted my speculation but the short version is maybe Marika's plan after she broke the ring/killed herself to try to get rid of the big bad thing was for Miquella to become the new Erdtree, so she made Empyrian twins (ie pure bloodline since she was both parents, that's what Empyrian seems to mean) and put all the rot in Malenia so that Miquella could be pure.
I think her main importance is to signpost how important Miquella is because she's waiting at the version of him growing from the tree, while meanwhile Mohg is keeping his real body undead elsewhere. He seems to think Miquella can come back and she might have been thinking the same thing, so you can guess at different conclusions from that.
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Malenia is also important because she and her forces were so overwhelming that they steamrolled all opposition and is one of the main reasons why everything is at a stalemate after the shattering.
The cleanrot knight set mention that Melania's army marched southwards undefeated. Meaning they vanquished the armies of Morgott, Rykard, Godrick, and the Carian royal family as they marched towards Radhan. This is likely why their forces is in such a poor state, and why seemingly Morgott has managed to hold on to the capital despite not being especially popular or of great prowess.
Problem was that Radhan and his forces became the first actual match to Malenia's forces, and the two strongest combatants basically neutralized themselves in a battle to the death, destroying their armies in the process.
 
Sure, I doubt the reasons behind it were merely a power struggle though.
I got the feeling Morgott has the backing of the finger cultists, who are probably just batshit insane and base their worship of an alien parasite around interpreting meaningless random finger spasms. One of the possible solutions for the Godwyn/Ranni puzzle and whatever went wrong with Marika's original plan is those guys resisting her throwing off the "Will" by religiously subverting her followers. I like the idea that a demigod betrayed his family because he's dumb as shit and fell for some bullshit their own worshippers came up with.
 
Gimmick Account said:
Sure, I doubt the reasons behind it were merely a power struggle though.
I got the feeling Morgott has the backing of the finger cultists, who are probably just batshit insane and base their worship of an alien parasite around interpreting meaningless random finger spasms. One of the possible solutions for the Godwyn/Ranni puzzle and whatever went wrong with Marika's original plan is those guys resisting her throwing off the "Will" by religiously subverting her followers. I like the idea that a demigod betrayed his family because he's dumb as shit and fell for some bullshit their own worshippers came up with.
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Morgott likely does not have the support of fanatics to the greater will. As a Omen he is regarded as cursed and an abomination. Hence why no one questions why the two fingers keep sending Tarnished to the capital to fight Morgott, or why Morgott is out hunting those guided by the grace of the greater will.
Morgott likely had support from those still loyal of Godfrey as he was his oldest living heir. According to the lore Morgott ousted Godrick from the capital, so it seems they were likely closest to Leyendell, and Morgott won the initial power struggle against his much weaker grand nephew.
 
Übertroon said:
Morgott likely does not have the support of fanatics to the greater will. As a Omen he is regarded as cursed and an abomination. Hence why no one questions why the two fingers keep sending Tarnished to the capital to fight Morgott, or why Morgott is out hunting those guided by the grace of the greater will.
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Well past and present tense support are different things, take the Black Knives for example.
It's also probably not that cut-and-dried: there's a talisman you get from Omenkiller that says Omen mutations were once seen as a sign of closeness to divinity (which makes sense if the People of the Erdtree are descended from dragons); cultists can be oldschool; he's a literal demigod so maybe that's something they overlook when it comes to the Golden Lineage; and like a lot of From games we have no sense of time scale. There could even be a cause-and-effect in play with that opinion changing.

Tarnished also became tarnished (no more golden eyes I guess) by "losing their grace" so they're also outcasts. The fact that fingerers sre apparently on board when they need you all of a sudden might suggest they're more unscrupulous than that: they defied Marika herself after all.
 
Gimmick Account said:
Well past and present tense support are different things, take the Black Knives for example.
It's also probably not that cut-and-dried: there's a talisman you get from Omenkiller that says Omen mutations were once seen as a sign of closeness to divinity (which makes sense if the People of the Erdtree are descended from dragons); cultists can be oldschool; he's a literal demigod so maybe that's something they overlook when it comes to the Golden Lineage; and like a lot of From games we have no sense of time scale. There could even be a cause-and-effect in play with that opinion changing.

Tarnished also became tarnished (no more golden eyes I guess) by "losing their grace" so they're also outcasts. The fact that fingerers apparently on board when they need you all of a sudden might suggest they're more unscrupulous than that: they defied Marika herself after all.
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As it is Morgott and Mohg are presented as opposites. Both were born cursed and viewed as bad fortune. Disregarded among the children of Marika. Morgott chose to compensate with utmost faith and reverence. Mohg meanwhile consorts with powers competing with the greater will.
But there's nothing to suggest the two fingers support Morgott. The Erdtree keeps everyone out, and seems more inclined towards keeping the status quo, wanting the fanatical side of Marika, Radagon, to remain Elden Lord.
The greater will is just using Morgott and the tarnished to destroy one another.
 
Übertroon said:
The greater will is just using Morgott and the tarnished to destroy one another.
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For sure. Another possibility is that it's just a dumb but powerful invasive species like the "gods" in Bloodborne seemed to be, and humans are retarded.

They're just options to weight up in parallel while trying to unravel everything, but when I read the Finger Heirloom description I suddenly remembered thinking how much the old bitch sounds like she's talking directly from her ass when she "interprets" the fingers for you.

I'm waiting to stumble onto the Japanese text tables to decide though.
 
I have finally beat the game. I almost don’t want to play through NG+ and just call the game there, but I’m curious if anyone’s playing through it right now and what’s changed.
 
idk, while it's interesting to learn just what the fuck happened in the plot of a 40+ hours game the lore is so insanely convoluted it just doesn't flow well in the original Dark Souls fashion. Like what is Omen? What is Empyriean? What are the outer gods and Why do they care what happens in the world? What is the Great Will? Why every one of the demi gods seems to get absolutely fucked in vitro? How do you keep track on 10+ minor deities and who birthed them? Why non of the human races matter except the Merchant Guild? And what are the Albians?

Dark Souls had a lot of areas be self contained and the base story itself is simple. But having such a convoluted plot doesn't work when you get snippets of text, unless you have a huge amount of time to compile it all together (and that's assuming you don't miss any item that has a large implications to the lore).
 
Dave. said:
I have finally beat the game. I almost don’t want to play through NG+ and just call the game there, but I’m curious if anyone’s playing through it right now and what’s changed.
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I tried it for a bit before rolling a new character and from what I could tell nothing really changes in NG+, beyond enemies being beefier. No different spawns or more advanced enemies in earlier areas or anything.
I finished Liurnia and got to Caelid and then I got bored of facerolling everything.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
idk, while it's interesting to learn just what the fuck happened in the plot of a 40+ hours game the lore is so insanely convoluted it just doesn't flow well in the original Dark Souls fashion. Like what is Omen? What is Empyriean? What are the outer gods and Why do they care what happens in the world? What is the Great Will? Why every one of the demi gods seems to get absolutely fucked in vitro? How do you keep track on 10+ minor deities and who birthed them? Why non of the human races matter except the Merchant Guild? And what are the Albians?

Dark Souls had a lot of areas be self contained and the base story itself is simple. But having such a convoluted plot doesn't work when you get snippets of text, unless you have a huge amount of time to compile it all together (and that's assuming you don't miss any item that has a large implications to the lore).
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Omen is a being made by the Erdtree playing fuck wucky with the previous source of death and rebirth. Empyrean is just a female who can take Marika’s role as conduit.

The Outer Gods are a bunch of vague beings and concepts. Flame of Frenzy was summoned by the merchant Jews of the setting after they got Holocausted. They’re all vying for control for some reason, it’s implied that the Greater Will and the Erdtree are eating trapped souls.

The non-human races are a bit weird. Demi-humans are hated because they’re fuckups who got rebirthed by the Crucible and because of the Erdtree interfere with that. Snake Men are products of Rykard. Alburniacs are just a catch-all term for created beings, they’re basically Homunculuses. The deformed Irish looking ones in Liurnia are 2nd generation and it’s explained that Alburniacs are unstable in their current state.
 
Islamic Creampie said:
Man, Godskin Duo is wrecking my ass. I absolutely can't get a handle on this fight.
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Ruin said:
The arena is to small for how quickly they can close the gap.
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I always found the fat one's rapier to be the problem because he just has so much insane reach with that thing. Then his roll when he's in stage 2 while dealing with the stretchy guy makes it even more unfair.
 
Decided to go ahead and start a new playthrough with an astrologer. Does anyone have tips for dealing with invader npcs before you start getting really good spells? Haven’t bother getting past Margit yet and the scythe guy in roundtable just dodges all your spells.
 
Takayuki Yagami said:
Decided to go ahead and start a new playthrough with an astrologer. Does anyone have tips for dealing with invader npcs before you start getting really good spells? Haven’t bother getting past Margit yet and the scythe guy in roundtable just dodges all your spells.
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Get the winged scythe yourself and wreck his shit.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
idk, while it's interesting to learn just what the fuck happened in the plot of a 40+ hours game the lore is so insanely convoluted it just doesn't flow well in the original Dark Souls fashion. Like what is Omen? What is Empyriean? What are the outer gods and Why do they care what happens in the world? What is the Great Will? Why every one of the demi gods seems to get absolutely fucked in vitro? How do you keep track on 10+ minor deities and who birthed them? Why non of the human races matter except the Merchant Guild? And what are the Albians?

Dark Souls had a lot of areas be self contained and the base story itself is simple. But having such a convoluted plot doesn't work when you get snippets of text, unless you have a huge amount of time to compile it all together (and that's assuming you don't miss any item that has a large implications to the lore).
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The detailed backstory is definitely a George RR Martin influence, but the complexity and unexplained parts are Miyazaki’s contribution.

That’s always been a thing with the Souls games. Vague lore that can be interpreted in a number of ways. Why was Havel locked away? Did he go hollow or did Gwyn imprison him there for trying to kill the gods? There’s evidence for either interpretation. While a lot is unclear about the nature of Elden Ring’s backstory, the same thing happened with Bloodborne and then Redgrave came out with a 100+ page document that a majority believe explains it all.

The game has only been out for a month and we are just starting to look over the game’s code to find unused assets. We might have an understanding of the base facts of the game but we still have yet to do an in-depth comparison of English and Japanese translations, examinations of symbols and repeated motifs, item placements, and the big question; what pieces of evidence are people going to use to suggest that all of Miyazaki’s games take place in the same universe?
 
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