Elden Ring

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Lizard Machine Bugs said:
The Stars control fate, including Ranni's so they needed to be unstuck, the Fingerslayer blade could've just been given to Ranni by the Nox if they were listening to the Dark Moon. Rellana, Renalla sister is also still blessed by both moons despite her lack of Glintstone corruption, and fucking off to work for Messmer.
I don't think the Dark Moon threw Astel at the Nox, in the first place Linruian and Nox sorcery and in turn the ancient astrologer people is based on the spell Founding Rain of Stars, which mentions the Primeval Current but not the Moons. The gravity sorcery of the Sellians is based on the Alabaster and Onyx lords, who again, come from the Stars.
While Thorn Sorcery is based on study of the Blood Star, not a Blood Moon, a Blood Star.
The only non-star based sorcery are the Death sorcery and Rykards Magma sorcery, both of which come from the systematic study of a divine power.
The only moon sorcery are from the full moon school, which are founded on the study of the Full and Dark Moons, the fact that they are set apart from the other types due to this fact is proof enough. With the only practicers of Full Moon sorcery being Ranni, Rellana and Renalla who were blessed by the moons, and maybe the Snowy Crone who taught Rani Cold Sorcery.
And when you look at the Nox ruins, what do you see? Fused together shaman/nox/neuman corpses, just like the ones that make up the Gate of Divinity and the ones the Hornest Potentates thought carried the secret to manufacturing saints.
Astel may have wiped out one of their three cities, but whatever happened to the other two is the fault of the Nox themselves, and given that the Starscourge conflict and the subsaquent freezing of the stars happened when Radhan was still young and he's one of Ranni's siblings, and Ranni discovered the Dark Moon when she was young. It's more likely the Dark Moon favoring Ranni is a reaction to the destruction of the Eternal Cities, rather then it killing it's own loyal vassals for no reason.
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The rellana thing is no different than melina using erdtree incantations to fight margott. Once they give a blessing the higher powers seem to have a hard time taking it back.

The stars and primeval current are an extention of the moons and their will, that's what they mean by fate. Radahn, ambitious as he was, wouldn't freeze everyone's fates and keep himself in the same position forever. There are only two moon sorceries because the sorceries mimic the hierarchy of the moons: the bloodline of Renalla at the top, all the lesser sorcerers and sorceries at the bottom. Everyone on the bottom is either a servant (glintstone, carian, etc), a student (primeval), or a challenger (gravity, blood, magma).

The nox, despite worshipping the moons, primarily focused on manipulation of metals and the body instead of glintstone. This and the fact the moon abandoned them and they collapsed only after the fingerslayer blade was used leads me to believe their only purpose was as a tool to create the blade for Ranni's destiny. After that the moons couldn't care less about them and let them fall to astel. Also keep in mind that astel is guarding one of Ranni's magic barriers protecting the elevator to her Moonlight altar (which is home to multiple dragons suffering from glintstone corruption) and entrapping the two finger she meant to slay. However, Radahn freezing the stars before the blade could be delivered halted her fate/the dark moon's machinations.
 
Local FloRida-man said:
The stars and primeval current are an extention of the moons and their will, that's what they mean by fate. Radahn, ambitious as he was, wouldn't freeze everyone's fates and keep himself in the same position forever. There are only two moon sorceries because the sorceries mimic the hierarchy of the moons: the bloodline of Renalla at the top, all the lesser sorcerers and sorceries at the bottom. Everyone on the bottom is either a servant (glintstone, carian, etc), a student (primeval), or a challenger (gravity, blood, magma).
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I don't see a connection between the Moons and the Primeval Current, even the Primeval Current sorcerers don't talk about the moon, they talk about the stars and they're the most concerned about the origins of sorcery, and yet they don't care about the Moons, neither do the other powers seem to care about the Moons, the Blood Star isn't even involved in the fight and was part of Erdtree society with their practices of pentance through pain and ritual blinding.
Radahn also did just freeze everybody's fate and as a golden order loyalist would be trying to keep things the same and return to the Golden Order.
The source of sorcery, the ancient astrologer people also don't have any moon imagery or relation to the moon, only the Carian royal family and maybe the Snowy Crone do.
The Fingerslayer Blade also wasn't used as their society collapsed, Ranni uses it during the events of her game which is why we needed to get it in the first place, if anything Astel gaurding Ranni's two fingers and the Moonlight Alter make it seem like it was sent by Metyr or Marika in order to prevent the blade from being used.
I more inclined to believe Metyr sent Astel after the Eternal Cities once she discovered they created a weapon purpose made for killing her children, she does command the stars and the sorcery Ymir based off of her is a mini-microcosm. Ranni even says her and her Two Fingers(which are commanded by Metyr) are at odds and that the Shadows(Malaketh and Blaidd) were created as assassins to the Two Fingers(likely by Metyr). Blaidd also attacks you as a Baleful Shadow during Ranni's quest, not to mention Iji getting killed by black flame likely also being a target of the Two Finger(Metyr) and Marika,
The blade itself is also made of fused flesh and was born of a corpse, like the Elden Beast's Marika/Radagan sword, or the gates of Divinity. The item's description even ties it to the fall of the Eternal cities,
The Japanese version also make it clear that the voyage of a thousand years Ranni speaks of is the voyage of her and her consort who will be leaving the Lands Between with the Elden Ring, and that her Age of Stars so the Dark Moon, to the beings of the Lands Between, the Age of the Stars and the Dark Moon will be far away.
私は誓おう　すべての生命と、すべての魂に
“I shall swear to all lives and souls”

これよりは星の世紀
“From hereon is the Age of Stars”

月の理、千年の旅
“The laws of the moon, a thousand year journey”

すべてよ、冷たい夜、はるか遠くに思うがよい
“To all, you may think of the chill night as infinitely far away”

恐れを、迷いを、孤独を　そして暗きに行く路を　さあ、行こうか
“And now, let us go on our path of fear, doubt, and loneliness, into darkness”
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And when you talk to the Doll in Ranni's rise this is reinforced in the japanese version, the Dark Moon isn't extending it's will onto the Lands Between, it's leading Ranni and her consort on a voyage through the stars, she's taking the chill night away.
私の律について
“About my order”

私の律は、黄金ではない。星と月、冷たい夜の律だ
“My order will not be of gold, but of the stars and moon, and chill night.”

…私はそれを、この地から遠ざけたいのだ
“…I want to keep it far away from this land.”

生命と魂が、律と共にあるとしても、それは遥かに遠くにあればよい
“…Even if life and souls are one with the order, it (the order) could be kept far away.”

確かに見ることも、感じることも、信じることも、触れることも
…すべて、できない方がよい
“If it was not possible to clearly see, feel, believe in, or touch the order… That would be better.”

だから私は、律と共に、この地を棄てる
“That is why I will leave this place, along with the order.”
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wtfNeedSignUp said:
I don't get how how, if the Greater Will is fake then what are the sparkles that show us the way?
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The Greater Will isn't fake, Marika is just lying to people that she's the one true god.
Melania calls the Grace, Grace of the Erdtree, and given she's one of Marika's daughters and seems to be in the know unlike the Finger Maidens, she's probably right.
In the DLC Leda also calls it the Erdtree's guidance.
More about the Greater Will, while in english it's kind of taken for granted, in the Japanese it's more clear that it's an analogue to the Abrahamic god, with Merika being a false idol who claims to be the representative of the Greater Will.
It's also a reoccurring theme in GRRM's works of organized religion being phony, even if God is real, and mind you he's a lapsed Catholic.
Although there are things like Metyr and the Elden Beast which he did create directly, and going with the Christianity parallels he's probably the one that cursed the children of Bayle to be armless, took away a pair of wings from Greyoll and her children, threw that meteor at Placidusax, and cursed the dragon eaters to become Magma Wryms and crawl with their bellies to the earth.
 
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Left Ass Cheek said:
what did you think of the dlc?
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I enjoyed it. 'About the size of Limgrave' was quite the lie. Zone diversity was there and there were still the freeze and look at the zone moments FromSoft has developed. The expansion/answers of lore were mostly there even if other people didn't like the results. Lots of new weapon styles, boss weapons are cool and the additional incantations just add more flavor to the game. Overall for 40$ the game had main content and gave more than enough reason to clear the DLC and go into PVP/NG+ with a new build.

The only thing I hope they fix somehow is things like the perfume bottles being locked behind NG+.
 
Lizard Machine Bugs said:
I don't see a connection between the Moons and the Primeval Current, even the Primeval Current sorcerers don't talk about the moon, they talk about the stars and they're the most concerned about the origins of sorcery, and yet they don't care about the Moons, neither do the other powers seem to care about the Moons, the Blood Star isn't even involved in the fight and was part of Erdtree society with their practices of pentance through pain and ritual blinding.
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Because they're trying to overthrow the Carians, and by extension the moon, to return sorcery to the primeval current, which they ignorantly believed is the golden order to the moon's erdtree. Sellens entire questline revolves around this, and she ends up paying the price for presuming too much.
Lizard Machine Bugs said:
Radahn also did just freeze everybody's fate and as a golden order loyalist would be trying to keep things the same and return to the Golden Order.
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The Golden order loyalist who invaded the capital? The frozen fates that were definitively altered for himself, malenia, miquella, and mohg in the war in caelid?
Lizard Machine Bugs said:
The source of sorcery, the ancient astrologer people also don't have any moon imagery or relation to the moon, only the Carian royal family and maybe the Snowy Crone do.
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... until a young astrologer Renalla, as the moon's chosen, taught them where the powers they draw upon came from when she was enlightened "while chasing the stars", as stated in the Stargazer heirloom description.
Lizard Machine Bugs said:
The Fingerslayer Blade also wasn't used as their society collapsed, Ranni uses it during the events of her game which is why we needed to get it in the first place, if anything Astel gaurding Ranni's two fingers and the Moonlight Alter make it seem like it was sent by Metyr or Marika in order to prevent the blade from being used.
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The fingerslayer's description states it's blood drenched and the symbol of their downfall. Ranni placed the barrier there and was able to slip past it to kill her two fingers without fighting astel, so if it's a guard dog it's most likely hers.

I don't really know if Ranni is being sincere in her description of the dark moon ending (I doubt it since she's abandoning the lands between to unbound destined death, a deathblight and scarlet rot epidemic, etc) but I don't really care either. As far as I'm concerned the frenzy flame and dark moon endings are the only definitive ones since every other just extends the broken erdtree order. Well that, and Ranni isn't dealt with in other endings so she'll probably plot your death just like she and Marika did Godwyn's. Nothings stopping her afterall.
 
wtfNeedSignUp said:
I don't get how how, if the Greater Will is fake then what are the sparkles that show us the way?
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Marika literally leading you to whatever. You have the guidance of Grace. The reason why you see the Phantom Tree is Marika. I don’t know what the fuck Radagon is supposed to be is he Marika’s sense of being a bootlicking faggot?

The Greater Will is either a reference to Shadow Tower (From Soft game that is was an attempt at another King’s Field) where the Greater Will is the Demiurge or just a reference to Medieval European thought on God. The DLC kinda has a whole theme of no one really knowing what the Greater Will or what Higher Power really want. They might not have human consciousness.
The Crucible was basically just a meat pit and the Hornsent thought themselves special because they had horns.

The Fingers as a whole basically operate on is connection to Greater Will working? Otherwise they go schizophrenic or brick. The Three Fingers is basically a reset program that’s annoying the current users of the Elden Ring. Ymir is fucking insane and the entire point of the Mother Fingers is that Marika was right to try to sever the connection to the Fingers and Ranni to fuck off.
 
Local FloRida-man said:
Because they're trying to overthrow the Carians, and by extension the moon, to return sorcery to the primeval current, which they ignorantly believed is the golden order to the moon's erdtree. Sellens entire questline revolves around this, and she ends up paying the price for presuming too much.
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The Moons rarely show any will, later after Renalla went mad she was abandoned by everybody but Ranni, but after the academy become disenchanted with the moons and the Cuckoo knights are playing at mercenary they still don't invite the Primeval Current sorcerers back, even if Renalla was commanding the academy on behalf of the moons she is't active anymore and the academy don't listen to her.
And while I can't speak for the Full Moon, the Dark Moon doesn't seem very interested in ruling over the Lands Between or commanding the academy since Ranni never really makes a move on it despite having Destined Death powers and being able to do so.
The Graven Masses and what happened to Sellen also isn't some accident on their part, the Graven Mass Talisman explain that fashioning sorcerers into Graven Masses is considerd just another path of scientific inquiry, and that the Graven masses themselves are artificial star seeds, consider who she had you investigate it probably includes the other masters.
Of course, it's an utterly horrific fate no matter if she wanted it or not, the Talisman also said that these horrors haunt the academy, which is probably why it's banned.
Local FloRida-man said:
The fingerslayer's description states it's blood drenched and the symbol of their downfall. Ranni placed the barrier there and was able to slip past it to kill her two fingers without fighting astel, so if it's a guard dog it's most likely hers.
I don't really know if Ranni is being sincere in her description of the dark moon ending (I doubt it since she's abandoning the lands between to unbound destined death, a deathblight and scarlet rot epidemic, etc) but I don't really care either. As far as I'm concerned the frenzy flame and dark moon endings are the only definitive ones since every other just extends the broken erdtree order. Well that, and Ranni isn't dealt with in other endings so she'll probably plot your death just like she and Marika did Godwyn's. Nothings stopping her afterall.
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If the Fingerslayer Blade was used to kill a Two Finger it wasn't Ranni's until we give it to her during her quest line, there are the other dead two fingers who're dead.
Astel also doesn't use any Moon sorcery, it uses gravity magic and has more star imagery, for all I know for certain it could just be a natural disaster or invasive species of sorts and not have any plans of it's own.
But I do think she is being sincere, she wants to leave the Lands Between with her Consort and have a more mundane age, since no matter what the Rune of Destined Death is freed from Malakath death returns to the Lands Between, Destined Death not being freed caused a lot of problems and having it so people can die a natural true death is probably better.
Although yeah she doesn't address what happened to Godwyn and she doesn't deal with the Rot, although without access to the Elden Ring neither of them can impose their order on the world even if you leave Melania alive and side with her daughters who want Rot to win, and she also doesn't deal with Godwyn's corpse.
But I don't think that has any bearing on whether she's being sincere to the player, is she morally dubious, yeah, but she also doesn't lie to the player during her quest.

HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
I don’t know what the fuck Radagon is supposed to be
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I thought the parallel with Saint Trina was pretty clear, he's the cast off parts of Marika given life, but one of the founding laws of the Golden Order is the Law of Regression.
Incantation of the Golden Order fundamentalists.
One of the key fundamentals.

Heals all negative statuses, dispels special effects, and reveals mimicry in all its forms.

The fundamentalists describe the Golden Order through the powers of regression and causality. Regression is the pull of meaning; that all things yearn eternally to converge.
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So when the Golden Order was established, and the Law of Regression became a natural laws, he and Marika became the same being once more.

HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
The Crucible was basically just a meat pit and the Hornsent thought themselves special because they had horns.
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They describe Marika as harnessing the power of the Crucible, the Crucible having currents, evolution, and trying to embody it.
I think the Crucible was more of a metaphysical thing, which bound life together, the Hornsent worshipped it and were a society devoted to trying to mastering it's currents, evidently Marika did and turned the Crucible into the Erdtree, a physical embodiment of all life and then removed Death from the Elden Ring in an attempt to create an eternally prosperous world.
 
Local FloRida-man said:
As far as I'm concerned the frenzy flame and dark moon endings are the only definitive ones since every other just extends the broken erdtree order. Well that, and Ranni isn't dealt with in other endings so she'll probably plot your death just like she and Marika did Godwyn's.
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Without griping about the endings too much, they missed an opportunity for a weird hybrid ending should the player fulfill the requirements for both the Goldmask and Fia endings. Instead of "repairing" the Order or whatever Goldmask does and instead of Fia rebirthing Godwyn as a fucking rune, they shoulda flat out resurrected Godwyn in all his glory, perfect and hyperborean.
Idea for the second round of DLC. Go. Concoct some bullshit about banishing Death. Give an actual proper ending. Add a corrupted Godwyn, Prince of Death fight. Ez.
I really cannot keep up with the loresperging.
 
Asian tech support said:
Without griping about the endings too much, they missed an opportunity for a weird hybrid ending should the player fulfill the requirements for both the Goldmask and Fia endings. Instead of "repairing" the Order or whatever Goldmask does and instead of Fia rebirthing Godwyn as a fucking rune, they shoulda flat out resurrected Godwyn in all his glory, perfect and hyperborean.
Idea for the second round of DLC. Go. Concoct some bullshit about banishing Death. Give an actual proper ending. Add a corrupted Godwyn, Prince of Death fight. Ez.
I really cannot keep up with the loresperging.
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Godwyn can't be brought back, Ranni's entire thing with not having a body is that she split the Destined Death between the two of them, Godwyn's soul moved on and Ranni's body moved on but Godwyn's body and Ranni's soul yet live in death.
Godwyn being reborn as the Rune of the Death Prince is just spelled out on the Rune's description, his body became the principle of Life Within Death, the mending rune of the Death Prince doesn't just restore Destined Death, but it makes the Life Within Death a natural law.
No matter the ending Destined Death is restored, but the undead aren't part of Destined Death, so Fia needed to birth a mending Rune in order to make their existence a natural law.

If Godwyn did come back, it would be in the form of the Principle of Life Within Death and not Godwyn himself as his soul is moved on.
For Goldmask, he seeks to fix the golden order and in the processes discovered the Rune of Perfect Order, since he sees the problem with the Golden Order being the subjective view points of petty gods and he thus discovered a transcendental truth and the Rune will create an age of Perfect Order devoid of subjective viewpoints.
 
Asian tech support said:
Without griping about the endings too much, they missed an opportunity for a weird hybrid ending should the player fulfill the requirements for both the Goldmask and Fia endings. Instead of "repairing" the Order or whatever Goldmask does and instead of Fia rebirthing Godwyn as a fucking rune, they shoulda flat out resurrected Godwyn in all his glory, perfect and hyperborean.
Idea for the second round of DLC. Go. Concoct some bullshit about banishing Death. Give an actual proper ending. Add a corrupted Godwyn, Prince of Death fight. Ez.
I really cannot keep up with the loresperging.
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The ideal would be the Shadowlands being a place full of competition that Marika couldn’t kill of or were dug into the area. I’d rather have to deal with random assholes that got written out of history. St. Trina would just be Miquella’s puppet/ golem body for his disembodied consciousness. Messmers crusade is now busy trying to wage a war against parties that were sitting in wait and the player is once again trying to collect Great Runes from niggers who held onto theirs since the last scramble for the Elden Ring.

@Lizard Machine Bugs no I mean what part of Marika is Radagon because he seems to be just a bootlicking faggot who’s loyal to the Golden Order. He exists just to serve them. Marika basically realized that the Fingers and the Beast aren’t worth serving and there’s some shit to imply she worked with Ranni.
 
which one of you on the ps5 keeps getting killed at elphael? i see you...
 
HodgePodgeRogerDodger said:
@Lizard Machine Bugs no I mean what part of Marika is Radagon because he seems to be just a bootlicking faggot who’s loyal to the Golden Order. He exists just to serve them. Marika basically realized that the Fingers and the Beast aren’t worth serving and there’s some shit to imply she worked with Ranni.
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I think Marika was actually working with the Two Fingers, Ranni, Rykard, and the Nox when they plotted to kill Godwin.
Although the Golden order is prejudiced Marika also likes to absorb things and introduce things into it, and i think she eventually realized that removing Destined Death was a mistake and was plotting for her own and Godwyn's death with Ranni being groomed as the next god from birth and given Blaidd by the Two Fingers to help ensure that. But also betraying Malakath in the processes as he was too loyal and wanted to keep Destined Death restained.
Ranni's betrayal was that she engraved half of the Rune of Death onto herself, so instead of Godwyn dying a true death and his soul and body passing on, both he and Ranni had half of their being Live in Death, ruining Marika's plans to reintroduce Destined Death and instead introducing Life Within Death. Of course, once things became fully unworkable Marika went with a hail marry since she could no longer fix things and Ranni was doing her own thing, but Radagon was too loyal to the Golden Order and ended up fucking things up even more.
So Marika's original plan would've been a controlled reintroduction to Destined Death, the destruction of the Golden Order, and Ranni taking her place as the new god under a new order.
Keeping the Golden Order isn't really an option since one of it's tenants is a rejection of Destined Death, so keeping it around in the form Radagan liked was never an option, but yeah he's pretty much a wannabe Gold Mask and just caused things to get worse, I guess Marika got rid of him for a good reason.
 
Tenshi Eating A Corn Dog! said:
I don't know how anyone takes anything from the DLC as woke. Every time these sorts of things are shown in Elden Ring, it's shown as horrific, unnatural, and evil.
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And it’s very common in ancient religions, the first one coming to mind being the Ancient Egyptian gods like Horus, Set, Isis, and probably more I forgot. And don’t even get me started on the Greek pantheon, holy shit they were fucking everything and everyone.
I kind of just figured that was what all the weird shit was getting at, that the gods just operate differently.
 
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