LGBT [Email] The Piercing and Bisexuality

[Tragi-Chan]

If only we knew what actually made Chris think its a good idea to repierce his taint with a safety pin because even most weens wouldn't tell him that...

I fear this one was all Chris. It's the right combination of impulsiveness and insane stupidity. It's rather worrying that it overrides his sense of self-preservation, though - I'd have thought that Chris' natural cowardice would have prevented him from going through with this. I thought wrong.

 

[champthom]

I doubt anyone in your life will ever understand why you participated in this. Maybe you'll be able to justify it to yourself somehow, but I doubt you'll ever be able to convince anyone else that this was ethical.

I'm sorry, I haven't read the entire thread but are we seriously arguing if this is ethical? I don't think anyone, or at least Thetan, is arguing what she did as being ethical. There was a tendency to frame Chris trolling as an ethics thing at one point, I know I tried to justify some of my involvement on ethical grounds, but eventually it reached a point where we all just admitted we're horrible people who are probably going to burn in Hell for the stuff we've done. But that's life.

It's one thing to argue about whether to troll Chris or not, it's another to argue the ethics of the action, but I think it's not worth arguing if the act of trolling can be ethical in the sense it does some sort of positive good that outweighs harm.

This isn't me being an A-Log but from my experience with Chris, being Chris's friend is asking for trouble. I'm not saying people shouldn't be friends with Chris but friendship with Chris is, as someone else in this thread said, a lot of baggage. If you're Chris's friend and you're a woman, the expectation is that you're either going to enter into a relationship with Chris or you're going to set him up with somebody because "that's what friends do." Or you're expected to give him pity sex because he's EVER SO LONESOME. You have to worry about being doxed if you slight him or if he does something stupid (like he decides to tell the Internet "I TOTALLY HAVE A FRIEND, HER NAME IS x AND HER ADDRESS IS....") and you'll be perceived as a white knight to would be trolls which draws their ire. Friendship is supposed to be a mutual arrangement where both parties derive some sort of benefit from each other, but with Chris, it's mostly a one sided relationship. You're only a friend as so much as you can be a grade A ass patter and enabler.

 

[Haesindang Park]

I fear this one was all Chris. It's the right combination of impulsiveness and insane stupidity. It's rather worrying that it overrides his sense of self-preservation, though - I'd have thought that Chris' natural cowardice would have prevented him from going through with this. I thought wrong.

I was tempted to say that a very tiny part of this may have to do with his untreated autism but even that, autism isn't and shouldn't be used as an excuse for his taint infection. For some reason, I'm starting to think that if he did have the money for a sex-change operation (which I hope it never happens but impossible anyways since he can't afford it), he'd probably do it. After all, he said before that he would rather undergo a sex-change operation than to turn gay. I guess we could say the Cwcki was right that straight men do not put that much thought into this and that they've proven that Chris is anything but straight.

 

[P-Logic]

I'm sorry, I haven't read the entire thread but are we seriously arguing if this is ethical? I don't think anyone, or at least Thetan, is arguing what she did as being ethical.

She said she was trying to fix Chris.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

I was tempted to say that a very tiny part of this may have to do with his untreated autism but even that, autism isn't and shouldn't be used as an excuse for his taint infection. For some reason, I'm starting to think that if he did have the money for a sex-change operation (which I hope it never happens but impossible anyways since he can't afford it), he'd probably do it. After all, he said before that he would rather undergo a sex-change operation than to turn gay. I guess we could say the Cwcki was right that straight men do not put that much thought into this and that they've proven that Chris is anything but straight.

Based on pretty much every part of this whole Tomgirl saga/phase/whatever, if he were to have a sex change he'd go for the cheapest option available, safety and ethics be damned.

I was going to say "he'd probably try to do it myself. " Then I thought, "No, even Chris wouldn't do a thing like that." Then I re-read the emails in this thread, and I realised that we may never reach the bottom of this rabbit hole.

 

[Cotton Pudding]

Chill, guys. It's an ethical debate about the moral quandaries of trolling spastics. Don't need to be so serious.

The CWCki Forums - "Come for the laughs, stay for the moral quandaries!"

 

[Haesindang Park]

Based on pretty much every part of this whole Tomgirl saga/phase/whatever, if he were to have a sex change he'd go for the cheapest option available, safety and ethics be damned.

I was going to say "he'd probably try to do it myself. " Then I thought, "No, even Chris wouldn't do a thing like that." Then I re-read the emails in this thread, and I realised that we may never reach the bottom of this rabbit hole.

Well I guess we could say that the infection on his taint is his botched attempt at a sex change. I was going to wonder how Chris would react if his taint somehow got healed hence maybe he thought that the safety pin would make sure that he still has his "labia" down there. I don't know but its a pretty deep wound down there.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

The CWCki Forums - "Come for the laughs, stay for the moral quandaries!"

It would be nice if the moral quandaries could move on from, "How can you justify your actions?" "I don't know." "Yes, but how can you justify your actions?" "I still don't know."

 

[Cotton Pudding]

It would be nice if the moral quandaries could move on from, "How can you justify your actions?" "I don't know." "Yes, but how can you justify your actions?" "I still don't know."

Or at least held in private so we can get back to the important discussion at hand!

Talking about Chris' infected...

...never mind, carry on and let things run their natural course I guess.

 

[Ian Brandon Something]

lol, ethics

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

Ethics are irrelevant. Thetan was experimenting to see if she could effect some change, that's all.

This is a forum about examining Chris's life in extreme detail. The fact that "no trolling" is a rule here does not change the fact that this forum exists in the first place because its populace all tacitly endorse the existence of the cwcki and derive enjoyment from the trolling sagas that have gone past. The idea that we should pursue such questions as "what would your personal life people think if they knew how horrible you are" is ridiculous.

 

[P-Logic]

Ethics are irrelevant.

Frankly it's unsurprising you feel that way. However, most people take ethics into consideration when making decisions that impact other people.

This is a forum about examining Chris's life in extreme detail. The fact that "no trolling" is a rule here does not change the fact that this forum exists in the first place because its populace all tacitly endorse the existence of the cwcki and derive enjoyment from the trolling sagas that have gone past. The idea that we should pursue such questions as "what would your personal life people think if they knew how horrible you are" is ridiculous.

I disagree. As you say, this is a forum about examining Chris's life in extreme detail, and for me this includes the people around him and the people who have chosen to surround him for trolling purposes. "No shit is too minor", as it says. Do you think that everyone and everything in Chris's life should be subject to unimaginable scrutiny, except you and your friends who fuck with him? There's a 60 page thread about the guy's half-brother, but you, Thetan and others should enjoy complete privacy and be totally unquestioned about your actions? I find that ridiculous.

 

[Marvin]

Do you think that everyone and everything in Chris's life should be subject to unimaginable scrutiny, except you and your friends who fuck with him? There's a 60 page thread about the guy's half-brother, but you, Thetan and others should enjoy complete privacy and be totally unquestioned about your actions? I find that ridiculous.

Yeah, but cole sucks and no one cares about him. There's a 60 page thread about him because people like to talk, not because he's interesting.

While Chris developing a tolerant attitude towards gay men is a good thing, I can't help remembering previous occasions when a troll posing as a sweetheart managed to get him to supposedly reverse his position on gay men. I suspect that now another sweetheart has dropped him, he'll switch back pretty quickly. Especially given how agitated he got when he was congratulated on his bisexuality.

Nonono, we twisted Chris' arm and forced him to say the words "gay men are OK" (or something like that). This time, Chris says he accepts gay men because he accepts that LGBT includes gay men. It's a pretty different scenario. (Chris still might change his mind, but in the same, unlikely way that he might change his mind about being a tomgirl.)

 

[P-Logic]

Yeah, but cole sucks and no one cares about him. There's a 60 page thread about him because people like to talk, not because he's interesting.

I agree, but it's a good example of the holistic approach people here take when examining Chris's life. I'm not criticising this approach by the way. I think that "No shit is too minor" is a good rule. But it should genuinely be "no shit is too minor", not "no shit is too minor, except anything that Alec Benson Leary doesn't want discussed."

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

I agree, but it's a good example of the holistic approach people here take when examining Chris's life. I'm not criticising this approach by the way. I think that "No shit is too minor" is a good rule. But it should genuinely be "no shit is too minor", not "no shit is too minor, except anything that Alec Benson Leary doesn't want discussed."

I'm not stopping you from talking. I'm saying the subject is stupid and I'm calling you a hypocrite. You approve of "no shit is too minor" and think nothing of a constructed lack of privacy in Chris's life, but when someone manipulates him you are clearly very disapproving.

 

[Ian Brandon Something]

p-logic stahp

 

[NiggoFiggo]

Christ some people are more autistic then chris

 

[P-Logic]

I'm not stopping you from talking. I'm saying the subject is stupid and I'm calling you a hypocrite. You approve of "no shit is too minor" and think nothing of a constructed lack of privacy in Chris's life, but when someone manipulates him you are clearly very disapproving.

It's not so much that I disapprove, it's more that I think it's worth investigating. This forum is about abnormal psychology. I think the actions of trolls are down to abnormal psychology, and I'm interested in that.

 

[Rich Lee Konsumov]

Trust me, I've been giving this a lot of thought. This is the main reason why I've been conspicuously absent from the forum. I still haven't fully come to terms with everything, and I may not for awhile.

You seem like a perfectly nice person and I really hate to sound sanctimonious, but I think I can save you time on introspection: You shouldn't have done it. At best, having to resort to deception in order to counsel someone is ipso facto a sign that you are unqualified to do so. Beyond that, you've compromised someone's confidentiality. I can't stress enough that I don't think this is some strike against you as a person, but if you really are mulling the whole thing over, then FWIW I think you should write the whole thing off as a misconceived blunder.

This is a forum about examining Chris's life in extreme detail. The fact that "no trolling" is a rule here does not change the fact that this forum exists in the first place because its populace all tacitly endorse the existence of the cwcki and derive enjoyment from the trolling sagas that have gone past..

The one generalisation you can safely make about forum-users here is that they have an interest in CWC and his antics. That doesn't mean we've been conscripted into some anything-goes mentality and I'd argue that "examining Chris's life in detail" practically makes the sort of moral navel-gazing you're trying to discourage inevitable. Ethics are irrelevant? The very people you're defending seem to think otherwise. That said, I agree it's stupid to start interrogating people and making things aggressively personal.

 

[Fredegunde]

I honestly feel like debating ethics here is pointless. There are some trolls, like BlueSpike, who I would regard as being genuinely unethical in that they behaved abusively and malevolently towards Chris. But I think most of the trolling is morally neutral. You're not ever going to convince me that you're helping Chris by trolling him. You're not. But on the other hand, this also isn't a case of someone catfishing a normal person who is genuinely being diverted from finding a real relationship because they think the catfish is real. A normal person who gets catfished is engaging in a rational behavior but being duped. Chris is engaging in behaviors he has been told are irrational and likely to trigger trolling.

As much as we say Chris is stupid, I think sometimes we absorb his line of reasoning more than we realize. The actual things in Chris' life that cause him problems are his finances and Barb. (And irl consequences of his own behavior, like getting banned from Wal-Mart.) He talks about trolls so much, and it's what we know him from, that I think it's easy to forget the most important things in his life are neither helped nor harmed by anything on the internet. Chris is disabled, but not so disabled he genuinely can't learn from his behavior. If he ever decides that being trolled is so harmful to him that it's impacting his quality of life, I assume he'll withdraw from internet interaction.

Debates about the ethics of trolling kind of exhaust me because people act like it's equivalent to, say, a kid being bullied at school. And it's not. It's something that by definition can only occur because of continuing voluntary leisure activities by the person being trolled. I wouldn't want to be in Chris' position. I wouldn't want to get calls from random weens. But if I did something that caused that to happen, I would stop doing that thing in the future. Ultimately Chris would rather make stupid posts on Facebook and be trolled than stay off the internet and let people forget about him.