Entries in franchises that are bad as sequels but still good games - Think Star Fox Adventures, Chrono Cross, etc

[Wesker]

Between CV and RE0 I think the latter at least has great graphics, the interesting buddy system, and nice set pieces (at least on the train, it does kind of just become a worse Mansion after that). It's also got great music, plus even though it was flawed and tedious, the inventory system was a good attempt at solving the problem of always needing to run to item boxes.

Yeah that's my dilemma. It's got some really good strengths in it but it's bogged down with such a shitty gameplay system. One thing that really bugs me is that some of the weapons take up two slots. Like why? You could eliminate a lot of the idiotic item room runs with just one more slot. Visually, it's much better looking than REmake all around. The shot on the roof of the train is legendary good.

It's why I don't understand why fixed camera is so hated by a lot of people. Look how far the tech came from 96. This looks incredible even by today's standards.

 

[Prehistoric Jazz]

Dawn of War 2. Tis a fine game but no RTS. At least it didnt have a space marine in terminator armor frontflipping onto enemies.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Not willing to say very good, but can agree that it's capable of standing on its own and a lot of the ire is because it's masquerading as a DMC game. If you were to remove any connection to the other Devil May Cry universe, it'd be a more competent Heavenly Sword. Instead the director had to start running his mouth and dragging likable characters through the mud. Just fucking make it Heavenly Sword: Brothers Edition.

My one big (and relatively small) complaint is how the sound effects for the shotgun is fucking weak. It's so fucking weak, the handguns are more booming. The color coded enemies are annoying and stupid, but eh, it makes you use different weapons so whatever.

What's ironic is that as it came at a time where DMC fans were desperate for a new game, if it had no connection to DMC I'm reasonably confident a lot of them would have loved it with the idea "Hey maybe DMC is dead but this new franchise has the potential to pick up the slack!"

Instead of viewing it as something in addition to DMC they viewed it as something they'd get instead of DMC.

Its like souls clones. If you're a souls fan you have a varitable cornucopia of trailmix to pick and chose from and even if from soft goes bunk you still have other souls type games to chose from when DMC didn't have that.

Imagine after a 10 year long dry spell suddently Lords of the Fallen comes out calling itself "Dark souls 3" vs it just coming out as another franchise that's the same genre .

Then again, if dmc:dmc did that there's a good chance we'd have never gotten dmc 5 so who knows.

 

[AverageQuarianEnjoyer]

Mass Effect 3. For all of the issues with it's ending and dumbing down of combat, the game is not only still good on it's own, it had a stellar multiplayer that should have been included in the rerelease.

Except you can't play as a hanar. I want to be Blasto, damn it!

 

[Judge Dredd]

I didn't mind the 3D environments, but I feel like the pacing was off and difficulty way too high

The difficulty gets a lot easier once you realise the knife does damage every frame, making it a devastating weapon against certain enemies. There's also certain solutions to annoying enemies that aren't obvious, like equiping the lighter keeps bats away.

It's still worth playing, though. Of all the classic fixed camera games, it probably is the most heavy in backtracking (which isn't a bad thing imo).

It's also that the areas are so complex. Compared to most REs where each area is either self contained (like the hospital in RE3) or is a few small wings around a central hub (RE1 and RE2).

Plane Tyrant might have the biggest margin of error I've seen in any classic RE. He has this downward slash that'll kill you in two strikes I believe if you're at full health.

I'd say Steve was worse. Kills in two swipes of his axe, and there's no real way to avoid it. You're just expected to have brought half a dozen healing items and be quick on the menu button.

the inventory system was a good attempt at solving the problem of always needing to run to item boxes.

Except it was a huge mess, requiring a lot of inventory management fuckery. Especially when moving to a new zone and you have to make several trips just to grab items to bring with you.

 

[Wesker]

The difficulty gets a lot easier once you realise the knife does damage every frame, making it a devastating weapon against certain enemies. There's also certain solutions to annoying enemies that aren't obvious, like equiping the lighter keeps bats away.


It's also that the areas are so complex. Compared to most REs where each area is either self contained (like the hospital in RE3) or is a few small wings around a central hub (RE1 and RE2).


I'd say Steve was worse. Kills in two swipes of his axe, and there's no real way to avoid it. You're just expected to have brought half a dozen healing items and be quick on the menu button.


Except it was a huge mess, requiring a lot of inventory management fuckery. Especially when moving to a new zone and you have to make several trips just to grab items to bring with you.

I somehow got away from Steve with only one hit and only three explosive arrows in my playthrough I finished this weekend. But the slow reaction of the turn and aim is murder. It probably plays the slowest of any mainline RE game that I can recall. I still see plane Tyrant way worse.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

The difficulty gets a lot easier once you realise the knife does damage every frame, making it a devastating weapon against certain enemies. There's also certain solutions to annoying enemies that aren't obvious, like equiping the lighter keeps bats away.

I just saw a video that explained how B.O.W gas grenades work, which was very unconventional. Everything I hear about the game seems like it was designed to be a lot more cryptic in how to play optimally, which is cool in theory but annoying in practice.

Except it was a huge mess, requiring a lot of inventory management fuckery. Especially when moving to a new zone and you have to make several trips just to grab items to bring with you.

Yeah, but I think maybe if they did a combination, like have item boxes too, so you can drop things anywhere, any time like it currently works, but also have a few boxes where they are all stored to limit backtracking that would be good.

 

[Ben Kenobi]

Banjo kazooie nuts and bolts. Its a neet little gem that autist hate for not being banjo 3.

 

[verissimus]

Kingdom Hearts 2. Yeah, I said it.

More fun and refined than the first game in terms of gameplay, but the story...yeah. It's not as bad as future games, but that's not a stirring endorsement. Then again, had the series ended with this game than this probably wouldn't be a bad sequel.

 

[Soycast Guy]

RE5 isn’t a very good sequel but it’s a very fun game.

 

[CAPTAIN HAPPY]

I'll stand by that MGS2 is pretty lame as a sequel, but still an okay game on its own lol

 

[Thiletonomics]

Although this isn't really considered a good game, Hitman: Absolution, would fit this description. While the game itself, if it were on it's own, would be a okay-at-best game, the fact that it had the Hitman name, and that they changed features that people liked in the previous games (i.e. going from open-ended maps, to linear ones in Absolution, and more of a story-focused aspect to them, and the stealth features felt clunky in certain ways), made fans dislike the game, and as a result, IO-Interactive made Hitman World of Assassination (as the game is called now) more like the Hitman games of old.

Oops, I was already beaten to the question:

Hitman:Absolution

I believe it's a competent stealth/action game in general but a terrible HITMAN game. It opted for a more cinematic feel and had an emphasis on story rather than the sandbox. The linearity of the levels don't help either. However, there are many memorable set-pieces like the train station, China Town market, the Nuns, etc.

Another game that comes to mind, would be The Sims 4, had it been the first released Sims game. And even if that were to be the case, the awful Sim AI, compared to the first 3 Sims games, would probably make that game not good either, even as the first Sims game.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Kingdom Hearts 2. Yeah, I said it.

More fun and refined than the first game in terms of gameplay, but the story...yeah. It's not as bad as future games, but that's not a stirring endorsement. Then again, had the series ended with this game than this probably wouldn't be a bad sequel.

Well, KH2 is still very much in line with most other games in the franchise. It directly carries on the story and gameplay is the usual. If anything, Chains of Memory is the type of game I'd expect to see mentioned here, it stands out like a sore thumb in the series.

 

[Celebrate Nite]

DDRMAX: Dance Dance Revolution (USA PS2) - This was the beginning of where they started to add mainstream licenses to the series (although in this game specifically, they're not that bad except for "I Like To Move It", which has always been a shitty 90's song). However what kills this game is the unlock system. Normally you can unlock new songs by just playing AND passing other songs, but a few of them are locked to alternative bullshit (e.g. you HAVE to AA a song on heavy on the Final Stage in order to get Silent Hill, you HAVE to fail a song in game mode/challenge mode in order to get Celebrate & Gentle Stress respectively). The worst unlock is Drop The Bomb System SF Mix. if you don't want to drive yourself fucking crazy trying (and failing) to complete the Hardcore course, then the only way to get this song is if you play and pass 500 songs. Keep in mind that this is the VERY last song in the game and the unlocks before that are Candy(Star), Spin The Disk, and Gradiusic Cyber, which are unlocked around the 200 count, so you basically have to play 250+ more songs in which nothing fucking happens, hoping you piss away enough time to where you finally see the glowing "NEW" circle next to information mode. otherwise the rest of the songs in the game are stellar, although it's most certainly NOT a port of the original arcade version, as you can count the number of actual DDRMAX songs that appear in this version with one hand.

DDRExtreme (USA PS2) - Barely considered a port. It was SUPPOSED to be similar to the arcade version but wound up getting revamped last minute for whatever fucking reason, including an ugly looking theme and the loss of a few songs (White Lovers & Hypnotic Crisis). Also shoved the eyetoy gimmic in your face, as well as tried to cross-promote the new (at the time) Kareokae Revolution games by adding in Kareokae tunes to the DDR songlist such as a WORSE Believe (i.e. that Cher song) and Wiating for Tonight (i.e. that Jennifer Lopez song) if you can believe it. This game also has the distinct notion of having Memories, a Naoki song, force-locked on the game with no way of unlocking it normally until 2 years later via a Burger King promotion where they gave you a website to go on that would show you the code to unlock it on the main menu screen. Otherwise the rest of the songlist is not that bad.

 

[Mayor Cody Travers]

Streets Of Rage 3

The US version gives the story a re-do, which also cuts out content. The new dialogue even omits what you're supposed to do (eg, in the japan version, Zan specifically says you need to destroy the machines in the two control rooms to rescue the general. In the US version, it just says "find the chief". This is very important if you want the good ending, as the path splits depending on whether or not you were quick in time to save the general/chief.). For some reason the game is more difficult than the japan version (i.e. Normal is actually Hard, Hard is Hardest, etc...). if you set the game to easy (i.e. Normal), after Mr. X you get a cliffhanger ending, so you have no choice but to play the harder difficulty. Also the colors are wrong and characters (specifically women) have been censored.

In general, hit's don't have the same impact as the last game did. Sounds more like bubble-wrap popping than actual fists to the face sounds. The attacks themselves also seem weaker than the last game outside of weapons. The soundtrack is also VASTLY different than the last game, which while having a few catchy tunes, is jarring considering SOR went from 90's dance/house to hard techno.

Otherwise it's a good game. Just make sure to google the Bare Knuckle III Translation patch before playing it.

I remember why they made it harder: they wanted it to be rented more. Too bad most kids at the time just gave up and went back to Streets of Rage 2 instead. I should know as one of those kids.

I agree with the sounds and attacks feeling weaker. The softer sounds at least could’ve complemented the older sounds as ones for quicker/basic attacks, but IMO the speed up of the attack animations themselves is what made everything feel weaker overall.

 

[TheArtilleryman]

Red Faction 2 is often slated as a downgrade due to less destructible environments and a story that's almost completely disconnected from the first game, I still found it to be a lot of fun though. I will say having a grenade launcher as your first weapon is an odd choice for progression and also highlights the lack of destructibles right from the get-go, certainly didn't do it any favours.

 

[Oilspill Battery]

Yeah that's my dilemma. It's got some really good strengths in it but it's bogged down with such a shitty gameplay system. One thing that really bugs me is that some of the weapons take up two slots. Like why? You could eliminate a lot of the idiotic item room runs with just one more slot. Visually, it's much better looking than REmake all around. The shot on the roof of the train is legendary good.

View attachment 4583224

It's why I don't understand why fixed camera is so hated by a lot of people. Look how far the tech came from 96. This looks incredible even by today's standards.

What game is this?

 

[Calandrino]

Streets Of Rage 3
[...]
For some reason the game is more difficult than the japan version (i.e. Normal is actually Hard, Hard is Hardest, etc...).

That wouldn't really matter except:

* In Streets of Rage 3, bosses often have several life bars more than their Bare Knuckle III counterparts. Some enemies also have different amounts of life bars between Streets of Rage 3 and Bare Knuckle III.
* In Streets of Rage 3, enemy attack damage rises with difficulty levels, while in Bare Knuckle III, it remains the same.

Streets of Rage 3/Regional Differences - The Cutting Room Floor

tcrf.net

Pretty half-assed, and the million other changes are dumb and arbitrary too. Looks like the usual situation where once localizers get an inch, they think they're entitled to take a mile.

I agree with the sounds and attacks feeling weaker. The softer sounds at least could’ve complemented the older sounds as ones for quicker/basic attacks, but IMO the speed up of the attack animations themselves is what made everything feel weaker overall.

They actually slowed that down from the Japanese version:

* Streets of Rage 3 has 3 extra frames of hit pause on the players' third attack in their combos. This is easiest to notice with Axel as his combos feel slower in Streets of Rage 3.

tbh I think SoR3 "feels" better than SoR2 in a lot of ways, I prefer the faster attacks and walk speed, dashing, rolls, etc. I like the soundtrack. I think they just rushed it out before it was done, then further borked the western version.

 

[Wesker]

What game is this?

Resident Evil Zero

 

[Basic Blond Boy]

Not entirely sure if this fits here, but SpongeBob games.

Most of these licensed titles, when looked at on their own, are fairly well made and are competent in whatever genre they go for, but the lingering shadow of Battle For Bikini Bottom seems to kill every title before and after.

Titles such as Atlantis Squarepantis (DS), Truth or Square (Wii + DS), The Movie Game, Squigglepants, Cosmic Shake, and even some previous like Revenge of The Flying Dutchman (GC) all have a great amount of charm or polish but are considered bad entries because of BFBB.