Epic! 8-bitguy uses 1 weird trick to detroy rare prototypes!

[Pee Cola]

What really is the purpose of the 8-bit microcomputers? Obviously there's games and basic, or stuff for learning programming, but do they have any use besides that?

You mean their purposes in current year, or their other purposes BITD?

 

[Fcret]

What really is the purpose of the 8-bit microcomputers? Obviously there's games and basic, or stuff for learning programming, but do they have any use besides that?

Back when they were new, they were a way for a normal, median-income family to be able to afford a computer without really breaking the bank. A lot of office workers in the US were already accustomed to using computers and knew that having one at home was a good way to give their kids a leg up in the future job market. Also things like spreadsheet software were a boon even to normies because they massively simplified household accounting (if you're young, keep in mind that this is an era before online/digital banking - if you wanted to know how much you had in your bank account at any given time, you had to keep track of it yourself and reconcile it with your monthly printed bank statement).

Nowadays? They can be good teaching tools for computer design and architecture. That's pretty much it.

 

[DagothUr]

You mean their purposes in current year, or their other purposes BITD?

Their purpose at the time. Like why someone in the 70s would buy an Apple ][ or something.

Back when they were new, they were a way for a normal, median-income family to be able to afford a computer without really breaking the bank. A lot of office workers in the US were already accustomed to using computers and knew that having one at home was a good way to give their kids a leg up in the future job market. Also things like spreadsheet software were a boon even to normies because they massively simplified household accounting (if you're young, keep in mind that this is an era before online/digital banking - if you wanted to know how much you had in your bank account at any given time, you had to keep track of it yourself and reconcile it with your monthly printed bank statement).

Nowadays? They can be good teaching tools for computer design and architecture. That's pretty much it.

Were computers really that common in Business by that point? I kind of figured spreadsheets would be the sort of thing you'd use one for, but would that really justify the cost? I would also have thought plotting would be something you'd want to use them for, but looking at some of the systems from that time, they don't really seem to be designed for generic bitmaps, resolution aside. They all use either tiled graphics, or offer a bitmap where the colours are limited to 8x8 sections. So trying to plot multiple graphs would presumably not work great.

I'll also add that another modern use is being an easy way to practice low-level programming, because you have physical addresses and usually direct access to hardware memory (vram and whatever else they've mapped) and the instruction sets are usually pretty straightforward.

 

[Pee Cola]

Their purpose at the time. Like why someone in the 70s would buy an Apple ][ or something.

From a consumer's point of view? That's already been covered in the last few posts i.e. games, learning how to program a computer in BASIC and/or assembler and business tasks.

Bear in mind that the only people that bought these machines in the beginning were either companies with specific business use cases and white dudes with too much money who may or may not have done stuff with mainframes or minicomputers at college. It wasn't until the very early '80s when the likes of Commodore and Sinclair came out with 8-bit machines within the reach of home users (in the case of Sinclair, rock bottom prices but with build quality to match).

As for non-consumer purposes, 8-bit processors were used in scientific instruments, spacecraft, automation, music production and military applications (to name a few).

Fun fact: the original ARM chip was developed on the BBC Micro, with the first commercially available ARM device being a second processor expansion unit for the BBC Micro (the ARM Evaluation System, sold mainly to software developers working on new ARM-based stuff at the time).

 

[SNEED.EXE]

What really is the purpose of the 8-bit microcomputers? Obviously there's games and basic, or stuff for learning programming, but do they have any use besides that?

I remember reading that "What can you actually do with a computer?" was a question people asked a lot in the 70s and 80s. Outside of what people do with 8-bit computers nowadays (games and basic) and connecting to BBSs, they were used for a lot of office tasks like word processing and spreadsheets that aren't really interesting enough for people to discuss often.
Here's a video of someone trying to type a document on a Sinclair ZX81.

I would also have thought plotting would be something you'd want to use them for, but looking at some of the systems from that time, they don't really seem to be designed for generic bitmaps, resolution aside. They all use either tiled graphics, or offer a bitmap where the colours are limited to 8x8 sections. So trying to plot multiple graphs would presumably not work great.

 

[Fcret]

Fun fact: the original ARM chip was developed on the BBC Micro, with the first commercially available ARM device being a second processor expansion unit for the BBC Micro (the ARM Evaluation System, sold mainly to software developers working on new ARM-based stuff at the time).

The craziest story about the original ARM that I know is the one about how after doing some initial testing, they went to check how much power it was drawing only to discover that it wasn't drawing any power at all. In fact, they'd forgotten to connect the processor to a power supply and the chip was actually siphoning power from the digital input lines to run (and doing so without much issue).

Legendary.

 

[ditto]

What really is the purpose of the 8-bit microcomputers? Obviously there's games and basic, or stuff for learning programming, but do they have any use besides that?

The real purpose was games, but they tried very hard to market them as tools for education and word processing.

 

[Pee Cola]

The real purpose was games, but they tried very hard to market them as tools for education and word processing.

Some companies tried a little too hard.

 

[Fcret]

The real purpose was games, but they tried very hard to market them as tools for education and word processing.

Japan did not shy away from what it was all about - the games (and weirdly breathy women).

 

[Mikoyan]

Home 8-bit marketing was all about straddling the line. "Don't buy your kid a game console, this can do other stuff!"

There was a fair bit of business 8-bit use and that's (most of) the 'productivity' software work. That market was a weird patchwork of TRS-80s, Apple stuff, Commodore and CP/M machines until the PC crushed that market. Few people back then other than me and my terrible handwriting used 8-bit home computers unironically for word processing.

 

[AmpleApricots]

It's funny how even in this line of discussion, both the C16 and C128 usually lie completely forgotten. The C128 was even a dual CPU deal, a souped up HMOS version of the 6510 and a Z80 that could run CP/M. Even had the VDC for 80 col. digital RGB output compatible to CGA monitors(with adapter IIRC, commodore put it's "productivity" monochrome composite signal on there too, which frankly was helpful if you wanted the sharpest possible b&w picture on old display hardware) which you can also interpret perfectly with modern hardware. I have a desktop model of it and it kinda looks like the Amiga 1000. That thing somehow had no market segment. The Amiga that came later on was superior, the C64 had more games, the PCs were better for business. Poor odd machine, even if not inherently bad but I got the impression even the TRS-80 has more retro fans.

 

[Susanna]

It's funny how even in this line of discussion, both the C16 and C128 usually lie completely forgotten.

That's nothing. Even the super nerds who care about old microcomputers never even heard of the best 16-bit micro, the МЭП ДВК. PDP-11 compatible, up to a megabyte of RAM, attractive green phosphour screen, a generation of the world's finest programmers grew up learning BASIC on these.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

It's funny how even in this line of discussion, both the C16 and C128 usually lie completely forgotten. The C128 was even a dual CPU deal, a souped up HMOS version of the 6510 and a Z80 that could run CP/M. Even had the VDC for 80 col. digital RGB output compatible to CGA monitors(with adapter IIRC, commodore put it's "productivity" monochrome composite signal on there too, which frankly was helpful if you wanted the sharpest possible b&w picture on old display hardware) which you can also interpret perfectly with modern hardware. I have a desktop model of it and it kinda looks like the Amiga 1000. That thing somehow had no market segment. The Amiga that came later on was superior, the C64 had more games, the PCs were better for business. Poor odd machine, even if not inherently bad but I got the impression even the TRS-80 has more retro fans.

Yeah, I've got a 128. It's a good system.

Problem is, for most people, it was just a C64. There was never enough market share to produce more than a tiny handful of software really optimized for it.

Other problem is, like you said, and contributing to the first problem, while it was a good machine, it wasn't revolutionary. It was an upgraded C64, when you get right down to it. Which was fine, but you had the Amiga, the Atari, and DOS machines were starting to get better and cheaper as IBM's stranglehold on the "IBM PC" market crumbled... The market was fracturing too much, and the 128 did nothing to really stand out. It was "fine". It maintained almost perfect compatibility with the existing Commodore ecosystem. But it wasn't a game changer. And that's what Commodore needed.

As far as it's lack of presence in the retro community - not enough of them. They're a lot rarer than a C64, and because of the lack of adoption I already talked about, there's basically absolutely no reason to have one. There's almost literally nothing the 128 can do that the 64 can't, as far as interests actual collectors and retro enthusiasts. Actually there are a handful of things the 128's "near perfect" backwards compatibility fails at, so in some ways it's actually worse, if you want to play one of a dozen or two titles.

So no reason to pay the price. It's a novelty, at best, and if you want to get a "novelty" C64, most people are more interested in the luggable. The two piece version of the 128 is at least interesting in form factor, but they seem to be even rarer than the one piece... IIRC they cost something close to twice as much when they came out, because of the built in floppy drive and more involved construction. And those are the worse machines, compatibility wise - the built in disk drive just doesn't work for certain obscure ways 64 disks were written. Like half of the problems with backwards incompatibility are because of the drive itself.

 

[Pee Cola]

As far as it's lack of presence in the retro community - not enough of them. They're a lot rarer than a C64, and because of the lack of adoption I already talked about, there's basically absolutely no reason to have one. There's almost literally nothing the 128 can do that the 64 can't, as far as interests actual collectors and retro enthusiasts

It doesn't help that if you want to buy a C128 today, it'll set you back at least triple what a C64 would (at least that's the case where I am). Plenty of retro collectors want a 128, but can't justify the expense. I could buy an Amiga 500 for less money than a 128.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

It doesn't help that if you want to buy a C128 today, it'll set you back at least triple what a C64 would (at least that's the case where I am). Plenty of retro collectors want a 128, but can't justify the expense. I could buy an Amiga 500 for less money than a 128.

Are you on the decayed side of the pond, then? Because looking at ebay prices briefly, a 128 is a little more expensive than a 64, but generally no more than double... And Amiga 500s start at about twice a 128's asking price and go up from there.

 

[Pee Cola]

Are you on the decayed side of the pond, then? Because looking at ebay prices briefly, a 128 is a little more expensive than a 64, but generally no more than double... And Amiga 500s start at about twice a 128's asking price and go up from there.

No, way further away from that. C64s are around $200-$250 dollarydoos where I am (unless they're in really good condition or there's something special about them), and C128s usually go for at least $600 dollarydoos assuming you can find one in the first place.

 

[ZMOT]

Other problem is, like you said, and contributing to the first problem, while it was a good machine, it wasn't revolutionary. It was an upgraded C64, when you get right down to it. Which was fine, but you had the Amiga, the Atari, and DOS machines were starting to get better and cheaper as IBM's stranglehold on the "IBM PC" market crumbled...

over in europe the usual "upgrade path" was c64, then amiga500. ibm PCs were still way too expensive, and for games didn't really do anything compared to what the amiga 500 could already do.

 

[MembersSchoolPizza]

over in europe the usual "upgrade path" was c64, then amiga500. ibm PCs were still way too expensive, and for games didn't really do anything compared to what the amiga 500 could already do.

Yeah, over here the Amiga... didn't really take off. It existed, some people had it, but good luck finding any software for it in most of the computer shops, you never saw it in department store demo areas, etc. I wish it had.

 

[Pee Cola]

Yeah, over here the Amiga... didn't really take off. It existed, some people had it, but good luck finding any software for it in most of the computer shops, you never saw it in department store demo areas, etc. I wish it had.

Both the C64 and A500 were huge in Australia, mainly because of piracy and our country's proud tradition of criminal activity.

 

[ZMOT]

Both the C64 and A500 were huge in Australia, mainly because of piracy and our country's proud tradition of criminal activity.

not much different to europe, maybe it's the shared heritage...