Science Epigenetics and evolution: ‘the significant biological puzzle’ of sexual orientation - The ‘gay gene’ some touted as explaining widespread homosexuality in humans has not been found. Might epigenetics hold the answer?

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Last century, when things were a whole lot worse for gay people than they are today, there was a widely held notion that human homosexual behaviour was a choice, and that a homosexual person could change their ways and become heterosexual. For this reason, the occasional report of a “gay” gene was welcomed by many progressive people. The existence of such genes would show that homosexuality was not a choice but an inevitable consequence of development and genetics. Indeed, gay genes were perhaps the only example where many left-leaning people heartily embraced genetic determinism.
Awkwardly, like cold fusion, reports of genes that “cause” human homosexuality (and many other human behaviours) have failed to stand up to scrutiny – there is no “gay gene” in the sense that no one has identified genetic markers or genes that reliably predict sexual orientation in humans. Moreover, since homosexuality would generally be reckoned to reduce reproductive output of an individual, an allele (a gene variant) that directly causes homosexuality is unlikely to spread in a population.

Nonetheless, human homosexuality in both sexes is widespread, as it is across the animal kingdom. One study estimated that 3.2% of the Australian human population identifies as gay or lesbian, a frequency that is typical across the world. Despite the lack of genetic markers that are predictive of human homosexuality, the trait is highly heritable in the sense that siblings are more similar in their sexual orientation than expected by chance. However, the level of concordance between identical twins is surprisingly low.

Here’s an anecdotal example. I once had a friend who was the president of Gay Liberation in Victoria as a young man during the 1970s. “Fred”, now deceased, had a prominent scar on his forehead, a legacy of being beaten up in a country town where he had been invited to speak about his cause. (The burghers of the town were waiting to pick him up at the station, with evil intent.) Yet Fred’s identical twin was not gay. So much for genetic determinism. If homosexuality was solely genetically determined, identical twins should have identical sexual orientation.

The widespread occurrence of homosexuality in humans and other animals, together with its high heritability but unpredictable genetics and lack of genetic markers, is a significant biological puzzle. There are three leading hypotheses for the common existence of homosexuality in human populations, one based on kin selection, one on sexually antagonistic alleles, and one on epigenetic inheritance.
Briefly, the kin selection idea is that a gene that promotes homosexual behaviour can spread in a population if homosexual people contribute significantly to the reproduction of close relatives. Although this idea is plausible, the lack of any genetic marker that is reliably associated with sexual orientation is a strong argument against it.

The “antagonistic alleles” idea is that there are certain genes that are selected in different directions, that is, positively selected in males, but negatively selected in females and vice versa. Hypothetically, because no such gene has been identified, a gene that promotes testosterone production could be at a selective advantage in males if it promoted traits such as muscle development, risk taking, opposite-sex sexual attraction and increased sexual attractiveness to females. But if the same gene were expressed in the same way in females it might be disadvantageous for reciprocal reasons. This means that selection could pull in different directions in males and females, maintaining different gene variants in a population. By that I mean, gene variants that have different selective advantages in males and females can potentially coexist in a population because neither is unambiguously better. If so, sexual orientation may be more fluid than one might expect based on biological sex alone. (Well, “der”, I suspect you are now thinking, but please don’t shoot your even-handed messenger.)

Finally, we have an epigenetic hypothesis. Epigenetics is the transfer of genetic information between generations, which is not coded in DNA. In most mammals, male sexual development is determined by SrY, a gene on the Y chromosome. SrY codes a protein that interacts with other genes to reverse the default development of an embryo’s gonads from an oestrogen-producing ovary into a testosterone-producing testis. Thus, the short story of mammalian sexual development is that if a foetus is bathed in oestrogen produced by its default ovaries, it develops a female body. But if it is bathed in testosterone from its newly converted testes, it develops as a male.

Well, that’s a nice cut-and-dried story of genetic determinism, isn’t it?
I cheerfully taught it in my first-year biology classes for more than two decades, in full knowledge that the story is more complex. For example, if an individual’s testosterone production is defective, a genetic male (based on their possession of a Y chromosome and SrY gene) will develop as a female. Indeed, such individuals may be hyper-female, since they do not produce or respond to testosterone, whereas genetic females do both.

Even more extraordinary is a rare syndrome caused by a deficiency of the enzyme 5α-reductase. This enzyme converts testosterone to a more potent male-determining hormone. These kids, who are chromosomally male, are born with female-like genitalia and are often raised as girls. They then change to the male phenotype at puberty with its associated release of testosterone. Not only do male foetuses produce more androgens than female foetuses, they respond to it more strongly due to sex-specific epigenetic marks in genes that code for androgen receptors. Conversely, female foetuses produce less androgen and have reduced responsiveness to it. It is even possible for a genetically female foetus to have levels of circulating androgens in the male range but still develop as a female. So, while the primary cause of male bodies from female bodies is indeed SrY, other genes on the sex chromosomes can modify its effects.

The epigenetic hypothesis for the widespread occurrence of human homosexuality is based on the possibility of epigenetic inheritance of adjustments to a foetus’s testosterone sensitivity. Like most other epigenetic marks, sex-specific epigenetic marks are established anew in the early embryo following fertilisation.

Thus, most of the sex-specific epigenetic marks on genes that are involved in testosterone sensitivity are scrubbed off and re-established in a reliably sex-specific pattern well before the gonads become differentiated into either testes or ovaries. However, not all epigenetic marks are completely erased during embryo development, and it is therefore possible that there is some transgenerational transfer of epigenetic settings for testosterone sensitivity. This could affect sexual phenotype, sexual identity and sexual attraction.

This is a potentially important idea because it may explain the strong tendency for twins to have similar sexual preferences, but for this tendency to be no stronger between identical twins than it is between non-identical twins. This suggests epigenetic inheritance from one or other parent, but not genetic inheritance. If it were solely genetic, we would expect identical twins to be much more likely to share their sexual preferences than non-identical twins.

So, to the extent to which human homosexuality is the question, epigenetic inheritance remains a tantalising possibility.
 
Most importantly, can this research determine why so many gay dudes have the lispy fag voice? Because you can meet homos from Seattle, from Houston, from New York, from London fucking England and despite regional accents the gay voice seems kinda universal.
 
TL;DR
Leftoids are OK with biological essentialism and "genetic determinism", with all its implications for society - as long as it serves the smol uWu degenerate minorities they are trying to protect from the dreaded cishetero majority.
Leftoids know they lie, but they still do it cause politics.
Leftoids are OK with destroying scientific credibility as long as the smol uWus are left in a better place, more protected from the chuds.
Do not take this as some sort of praise for the right cause rightoids lie just as much.
Both groups should consider, maybe, not fucking lying so damn much.
 
Most importantly, can this research determine why so many gay dudes have the lispy fag voice? Because you can meet homos from Seattle, from Houston, from New York, from London fucking England and despite regional accents the gay voice seems kinda universal.
The faggy walk almost makes sense. They move their hips like a woman to entice men.

Also i solved the mystery of the gay gene btw. Its actually the being abused/groomed by gay pedophiles gene.
 
I love how fags point to animals as justification for homosexuality. In the animal kingdom, homosexuality is almost exclusively the result of asserting dominance or extreme environmental stressors. I don't think that's what you want to associate with
 
Even if these hypothetical gay genes existed (they don’t). What would you even do about them? Much like sex chromosomes you can’t just replace them them since they’re already within every single cell throughout your body since your first moments as a zygote in the womb. Epigenetic modifications are too situational and temporary to permanently and irreversibly stick if your trying to silence or over-express a particular gene for a certain phenotype, which is by design since epigenetic modifications are dynamic and can quickly adapt depending on the environment for your cells to survive more easily (survive as in reproduce, pass on your genes, and raise the next generation successfully which gays can’t do on their own naturally for obvious reasons).
 
Epigenetics are misexplained here, if your dna is the blueprint of your body, the epigenetic information is the per-cell tags on that dna for what genes to read and not read, its how a cell knows to be an eye cell, a skin cell, a blood cell, despite having the information for every cell.

The idea that this information can somehow be heredetary is a relatively new idea, which appears to be true, but it's not literally what epigenetics is all about, like the article spins it, trying to use this to explain a gay's high level behaviour.

However, if DNA is relatively robust and unchanging (usually), epigenetic information is more malleable and changing, you could compare them to digital vs analog information.

OSKM/Yamanaka cell reprogramming, which is the foundation of new regenerative medicine, works by resetting epigenetic information, fully to produce stem cells, or partially to just reset or rejuvenate them.

So we're back at square one, where homosexuality is clinically treatable.
 
I love how fags point to animals as justification for homosexuality. In the animal kingdom, homosexuality is almost exclusively the result of asserting dominance or extreme environmental stressors. I don't think that's what you want to associate with
And they conveniently forget the part where animals maul each other over the stupidest of things. If the animal kingdom rules really applied here, alot of leftists would be dead by now.

OSKM/Yamanaka cell reprogramming, which is the foundation of new regenerative medicine, works by resetting epigenetic information, fully to produce stem cells, or partially to just reset or rejuvenate them.

So we're back at square one, where homosexuality is clinically treatable.
The left is really gonna hate that one. But they'll just suppress it like they did with Phage Therapy and Cancer Immunotherapy.
 
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I thought the common view was that it has genetic AND social factors?
One thing I also miss is comparisons how widespread male homosexuals are vs female homosexuals, the wider the net they cast, the more useless it becomes.
Like how absurd numbers of millenials and zoomers are supposed to be LGBTQIAP, but most of those are just collage women claiming to be bi or queer, because it is socially rewarding to be queer right now.

The "many animals are homosexual" was always a fucking stupid argument.
Some of them are fruitflies who don't even have brains.
What other species do is pretty irrelevant to what humans do.
The only studies in that field that would have any relevance would be some of our nearest relatives, but even those are worthless, because our closest relatives are bonobos and chimpanzees, and they have completely different sexual and social behavior.
Bonobos are matriarchal coomers, and chimpanzees are patriarchal with a hierarchy.
Anyone who ever thought that argument held water should be immediately disqualified in the academic field, because they are dum-dums.
 
there was a widely held notion that human homosexual behaviour was a choice, and that a homosexual person could change their ways and become heterosexual.
No this isn’t what the notion was at all. He says it’s a choice, like you wake up one morning and think hey I’m going to be gay today! That’s not at all what people thought/think. They think it’s not something you’re born with, but something that happens to normal psychosexual development - the implication being reversible/treatable, but not a conscious choice in the moment . The two are not the same and it’s disingenuous to think so.
it is therefore possible that there is some transgenerational transfer of epigenetic settings for testosterone sensitivity. This could affect sexual phenotype, sexual identity and sexual attraction.
This is a massive reach. It’s also completely ‘testable for’ if you’re looking at a few genes. The methylation state of genes can be read pretty easily these days, that’s an easy one to look at.
Dna, the main CTAC code is the base of the information. Epigenetic marks are little chemical ‘tags’ (usually methylCpG as opposed to CG) that sit atop that code and affect how the machinery that packages and reads DNA works. Think of it as little stamps in rhe DNA. The more stanpsbthe more it’s coiled up tightly and less accessible to the protein machines that read it.
Bottom line is that roughly, more methyl imprints equals less gene expression, but it’s more complex than that. He comes across as knowing very little about the subject, or stretching it as far as he can to ‘prove’ that being gay is nothing to do with inappropriate sexual development but something natural and inbuilt. He’s trying to argue that being gay is just like being a little bit woman, when nothing is further from the truth - gay men have hyper sexual male focus in sexuality. They’re more like male sexuality in steroids than female sexuality.
A gay man is not a bit female. He’s gay
 
I assume it’s just a response to psychological trauma. Almost every lesbian I have ever met or heard speak about their life experiences got molested and never really processed that trauma. Butch dykes are the result of trying to be as repellant to men as possible, which is retarded because rapists don’t care about looks most of the time.

Usually they get molested and then are kinda told it’s their fault for trusting a stranger rather then someone manipulating them.

Gay men are just mentally broken a lot of the time. A few of the gay guys I was friends with were more just incredibly lonely and autistic and tried to get sexual fulfillment out of friendships to their detriment.
 
Like with troons, gays probably have a 1% of the group actually being born with the issue, and the other 99% is either being molested or graduating into it from over indulgence in coomerism
 
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The widespread occurrence of homosexuality in humans and other animals,

this comparison is so tiresome. for a while now there's been a push to link animal sex behaviors with humans to try and argue that homosexuality is a natural, inborn urge and therefore immune to moral condemnation. some animals are pointed out to do things such as perform unequivocally homosexual acts on each other for bonding or even form committed homosexual relationships. but animal "homosexuality" does not come with the deviant behavioral markers that human homosexuality does, such as increased risk-taking, hypersexuality, increased incidence of neurotic personality traits, etc.. nor does the incidence of animal homosexuality take the form of social contagion. animals do not groom their young to exhibit these tendencies, nor, in most cases, is it mutually exclusive with heterosexual behavior. in fact, it is often complementary. additionally, the things attributed to animals as homosexual behavior are highly anthropomorphic, for example, male fox bats grooming each other with they dicks out. this is not a directly sexual behavior, nor does it lead to sexual behavior, but it's counted as animals being gay buddies just like humans because look, he's got a hard-on! human homosexual character overwhelmingly indicates that it is a learned social behavior and not instinctual, so the argument that there may be some biological precursor is entirely moot. just stop with this dumb shit already.

No this isn’t what the notion was at all. He says it’s a choice, like you wake up one morning and think hey I’m going to be gay today! That’s not at all what people thought/think. They think it’s not something you’re born with, but something that happens to normal psychosexual development - the implication being reversible/treatable, but not a conscious choice in the moment . The two are not the same and it’s disingenuous to think so.

based otterdoc cuts the Gordian knot in one stroke. too few people understand this distinction and it makes this conversation far more laborious than it needs to be.
 
Nonetheless, human homosexuality in both sexes is widespread, as it is across the animal kingdom.
Big thunk. Behaviors that can be construed as same-sex intercourse -- by biologists who are human, and therefore influenced by human culture and its sexual schema -- are indeed common among animals, but that doesn't mean that animals that prefers such same-sex intercourse to the exclusion of heterosexual intercourse are common.
 
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