[00:00:00]
Host: We're going to talk about this now with journalist and trans rights activist Erin Reed. She covers LGBTQ legislation and news on her substack, which is called Erin in the Morning. Erin, welcome back to Press Play.
[00:00:10]
Tony: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:00:12]
Host: Well, what do you make of yesterday's decision by the California Interscholastic Federation, which appears to be only about this upcoming event this weekend?
[00:00:22]
Tony: Yeah. So I think that a lot of people in the transgender community were quite shocked at the decision. California has for a very long time been known as a place of safety for transgender students and for transgender people. They've got some of the strongest civil rights protections for transgender people. And to see them sort of bow down to a threat by the Trump administration only a week, I might add, after Governor Janet Mills in Maine essentially told the Trump administration, I'll see you in court, was a striking contrast. It was definitely something that was unexpected. Right.
[00:00:55]
Host: In the main case, the Trump administration backed down. It was withholding child nutrition funds and backed down at the threat of a lawsuit. So tell us more about this particular athlete, AB Hernandez. How does Trump even know who she is?
[00:01:12]
Tony: Yeah, so A.B. hernandez has been an athlete that's been getting a lot of right wing attention. She is a transgender girl who's been competing in track and field events for at least three years in the female category. We have continually seen sort of outrage cycles over a single trans student athlete in a single state being given all of the attention of conservative media. And so A.B. hernandez has been the latest recipient of that sort of attention. We've seen at her meets, people show up to the meets and call her slurs, yell out names at her, physically harass and stalk and threaten AB Hernandez. And we've seen several doxxing attempts and doxxing posts on the Internet, essentially trying to target harassment towards a 16 year old trans girl.
[00:02:02]
Host: Okay, I'm going to play a clip of tape now which illustrates what you're talking about. And just a warning. This is disturbing. And Hernandez is misgendered. And this is Sonia Shaw speaking. She's the Chino Valley School Board president and an outspoken anti trans activist. And here she is confronting A.B. hernandez's mom at a track meet.
[00:02:23]
Sonia Shaw: I have a right to speak truth. Boy to boys. Girls are girls. They do not belong. Competing against those girls, period. What a coward of a woman. You are allowing that, Telling our woman, telling girls to go and compete against a boy. How embarrassing. You're a mother. You're a mother. Stand up like a mother. I am a mother. I'm Protecting girls. You want a boy? How many people support the boy competing against the girls? Nobody.
[00:02:52]
Host: Okay, so she is a local, but there have been people at these meets who are not from the area who, as you say, are protesting. Can you tell us more about who they are?
[00:03:02]
Tony: Absolutely. So, you know, on the Twitter platform, there have been large right wing hate accounts that have targeted harassment towards transgender people for a very long time. They'll post videos, and then in the comments, you'll often see very dangerous replies, things that explicitly advocate for violence, for instance, and things like that. And so what often happens, and it's happening in A.B. hernandez's case, is people will travel long distances to show up and harass this student. And that's what we are seeing. We saw that from the clip there, but we're also seeing it in the actual stands. People that have never watched girls track and field. These are not people who have a long history of going to different meets and enjoying the sporting events. These are people who are there for explicitly political purposes, and not just political purposes, but for harassing purposes. They want to make this girl's life harder.
[00:03:53]
Host: Well, let's talk about the scientific evidence when it comes to. If there is scientific evidence when it comes to trans athletes and their ability to outperform cisgender girls. And in this particular case, Hernandez has lost two cisgendered girls.
[00:04:10]
Tony: She has. And, you know, there have been a lot of claims, for instance, made in conservative media, claims, for instance, that A.B. hernandez is shattering girls records or things like that. It's the same sort of thing that we've heard with other athletes. And the fact of the matter is, she is far behind the state record for cisgender girls in the events that she's competing in. Yes, she's doing well in a couple of the categories that she's in, but she's also losing in several categories. You know, I believe that she came in seventh in. I believe it was the high jump or the long jump. And so, you know, she's definitely good at what she does. But again, this is a young transgender student who has been playing her sport for years now. And I think that that's sort of what we're seeing as far as the scientific evidence around participation. There has never been a single study that has come out that shows that transgender girls have a biological advantage in any particular sport. After one to two years of hormone therapy, it tremendously reduces your physical capacity, and that's. We see this particular student competing on the level of high performing cisgender athletes.
[00:05:14]
Host: So what do you make of this decision by CIF to kind of find a quote, unquote, middle ground, right? So they're trying to, I don't know, play to both sides. So allow trans girls to participate, but then also allow cisgender girls who feel like they were displaced by a trans athlete to participate. Like, does that make anyone happy?
[00:05:35]
Tony: I don't think it's gonna make anybody happy. The idea that, you know, if a transgender girl gets to the finals, you're going to give a cisgender girl a consolation spot. That doesn't feel good. That doesn't feel right. That doesn't feel like this person is going to be thankful for a consolation spot. And the people that are opposed to transgender participation are not going to be satisfied because they're going to say at the end that, oh, well, this transgender girl should also lose whatever place that she wins, or something along those lines. And then, you know, just a few hours later, we had the governor's office clarify that she's gonna be scored separately, that the transgender girl is gonna be scored separately, and that you're gonna have a quote, unquote, biological boy winner, a biological girl winner, and then a transgender winner, which is even more ridiculous because she's the only contestant, you know, she's the only transgender girl that's gonna be participating. And so what does that mean? Does that mean that, like, she can go up to the track, walk to the end, and then be given first place? It's not a solution that I think is going to work for anybody. And. And also, this is a pilot solution that pilot solutions are meant to be expanded to other sports. So how is this going to work in other sports and team sports and more? I don't think that this is going to be the ultimate solution that's going to make anybody happy.
[00:06:50]
Host: How many. Is there an estimate as to how many trans athletes there are in high school sports?
[00:06:55]
Tony: So I don't know how many there are in high school sports. I know that in NCAA sports. So whenever you get to the collegiate level, the NCAA director said that there were only 10 that the NCAA were aware of participating around the country. And so, you know, this. What this shows is that transgender people are honestly, they're not given very many opportunities to play sports. It's not something that many transgender people can even do.
[00:07:21]
Host: Because they're banned in a lot of states.
[00:07:23]
Tony: No, no, not even. Not even because they're banned. It's because, number one, you know, hormone therapy has a tremendous effect on your body. And it does, believe it or not, it really does reduce your strength. It reduces your athletic capability. But number two, the amount of discrimination that you have to overcome just to get your foot in the door of any sport. And I'm not even talking about track and field. I'm talking about, you know, sports like darts or fishing, where we've also seen these bands. The amount of discrimination you have to endure just to get your. Your foot in the door is enough to keep most transgender people out of it. I mean, just look at what this girl has. Has had to go through. She's just to participate in the sport that she loves, that she's been participating for three years. She's getting death threats. She's getting people showing up at her meets. I mean, that's enough to scare many transgender athletes from even trying to participate, no matter the sport.
[00:08:12]
Host: Yeah, she's being called out by the President of the United States.
[00:08:15]
Tony: Exactly. And so whenever you hear that there are 10 trans athletes in the NCAA across the country, that's why. I mean, it's a scary environment for them.
[00:08:23]
Host: So what is this all about? Them?
[00:08:25]
Tony: This is all about trying to find a wedge, trying to find a way in which you can separate transgender people from their communities and where you can separate transgender from their cisgender peers. And we have seen this time and time again in so many other states where we've seen, you know, attempts to attack transgender girls in sports. Every single state that has passed a transgender sports ban went on the very next year to ban those same transgender girls from bathrooms, to ban their hormone therapy, to ban them from being able to learn about their history in schools. We've seen these don't say gay laws, the bathroom bans, the hormone therapy bans. The people who originally conceived of sports fans. This is the American Principles Project, literally are on record at CNN saying, we did this because we wanted to get people comfortable with the idea of discriminating against transgender people and LGBTQ people.
[00:09:16]
Host: And it activates people. Right, gets them politically riled up.
[00:09:20]
Tony: It does. This is something that they are using to polarize people. It's something that they are using to make people target their ire at transgender people. And I want to say this again. The people that are pushing these policies, they don't care about advantages. That's what they'll say. They'll say, oh, this is about a biological advantage. But if it was about advantages, why do we see bans on competitive hot dog eating? Why do we see bans in chess? The National Chess, the International Chess foundation, banned transgender women from playing chess in the female category.
[00:09:50]
Host: Really?
[00:09:50]
Tony: This is all about trying to segregate transgender people from their communities.
[00:09:55]
Host: Oh, my gosh. I didn't know that about chess. That seems.
[00:09:58]
Tony: Yep. F I D E. The international chess institution.
[00:10:02]
Host: Erin, thank you so much for joining us. I appreciate it.
[00:10:05]
Tony: Of course. Thank you so much for having me on.
[00:10:06]
Host: That's journalist and trans rights activist Erin Reed. She covers LGBTQ legislation and news on her substack. Go check it out. It's called Erin in the Morning.
as boys without explicitly naming them as such. The offer of what he deems 'consolation spots' implicitly reinforces they are not girls, more so since this only applies to the girls events. Funny they’re offering this compromise now. Just a few years ago, this would have been viewed as 'fair and acceptable' by the masses. No debate/no compromise/full acceptance insanity peaked the world, and now nothing short of TTD is seen as 'fair and acceptable'.
