Culture Even Marvel Knows Its Movies and Shows Need to Be Better - The superhero studio is cutting cutting TV production and fixing its film slate after fans lost the plot

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Illustration: Eddie Guy

By Ben Fritz
May 2, 2025 8:00 pm ET

LOS ANGELES—The head of Marvel Studios told colleagues recently that watching all the comic-book giant’s new TV shows and films had started to feel more like homework than entertainment.

The problem, Kevin Feige acknowledged, is that in an effort to satisfy parent company Disney’s hunger for content on its new streaming service, the studio behind “The Avengers” churned out too many movies and shows with interconnected stories.

The deluge of material from the Marvel Cinematic Universe, or MCU, on Disney+ overwhelmed and eventually alienated viewers. It also stretched Feige and his team’s resources thin, diluting the quality of their output. Marvel’s box-office sales, streaming popularity and formerly untouchable position in pop culture suffered.

Now, Feige is leading an internal overhaul aimed at getting the studio back on track. Marvel is making fewer TV shows, with stand-alone stories that don’t require prior knowledge of the MCU. Feige is focused on fixing the studio’s movie slate following recent flops like February’s “Captain America: Brave New World.”

The first major test of his reset arrived this week with “Thunderbolts,” about a team of sidekicks, has-beens and other C-listers who save the world in the Avengers’ absence. Early box office sales indicate it will open to between $70 million and $75 million in the U.S. and Canada this weekend, which would put it in the lowest tier of the company’s releases.

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Still, reviews for “Thunderbolts” have been largely positive. If fans like the film, they’ll likely be primed to see July’s “The Fantastic Four: First Steps.” That movie’s story will lead directly into a pair of “Avengers” sequels in 2026 and 2027 that Marvel needs to be massive hits to restore its former glory.

Feige declined requests for an interview. This article is based on interviews with more than a dozen people who have worked at Marvel or done business with the studio.

Papa Feige​

Feige, 51 years old, is widely acknowledged as the most successful movie producer in modern Hollywood. After starting as an assistant to the producer of 2000’s “X-Men,” he was hired by Marvel that year and rose to become the final decision maker on everything from scripts to casting, editing and visual effects.

Under his guidance, Marvel released an unprecedented string of hits including “Iron Man” (2008), “Guardians of the Galaxy” (2014) and “Black Panther” (2018). Along the way, Marvel was acquired by Disney for $4 billion in 2009.

Its crowning achievement was 2019’s “Avengers: Endgame,” which united the story lines and characters of all 21 films that preceded it and grossed $2.8 billion, a record at the time.

During Marvel’s heyday in the 2010s, Feige was heavily involved in film development. He deployed lower-ranking executives to supervise shooting, then got his hands dirty again in the editing room, often making significant changes and ordering new scenes. His longtime deputy, Louis D’Esposito, had a recurring joke: “We can fix any movie if we shoot it again.”

On 2013’s “Thor: The Dark World,” there were 35 days of reshoots—longer than the entire production of many low-budget films.

Though the studio had a few early duds, Feige’s process worked almost flawlessly for years. Every film Marvel released between 2010 and 2019 was a hit, grossing an average of about $1 billion. Fans loved that each had a distinct tone, but were bound together by an overarching narrative.

The movies were overseen by a small team of creative executives who came to be known as “the parliament.” Most had been with the company since its founding or joined as assistants and were promoted, giving Marvel a family-like culture.

Feige was the studio’s beloved and charismatic dad—a creative genius from whom everyone sought attention and approval.

More MCU​

Soon after “Endgame,” creative staffers began meeting in their office on the Disney studio lot to figure out where the MCU could possibly go next.

In the nearby executive building, Disney’s senior leadership had another priority. Chief Executive Bob Iger was launching Disney+ as his answer to Netflix. He needed loads of new series for it and was counting on Marvel to provide many of them.

“The strategy became just expansion, expansion, expansion,” said a person who worked at Marvel at the time.

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Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige, right, in 2010 with two of his lieutenants: Jeremy Latcham and Louis D’Esposito. Photo: Kevin Winter/Getty Images

Feige recently told colleagues he agreed to the plan because of a zealousness to tell more stories and a desire to be an “excellent corporate citizen.” It turned out to be a mistake.

Marvel’s first two Disney+ shows came in 2021: the time-travel adventure “Loki” and “WandaVision,” which continued the stories of two heroes from “Endgame” in a satirical sitcom world. Both were hits.

But Marvel’s transition from producing a few hours of movie content annually to several dozen hours of streaming shows and films eventually broke down the studio’s processes. A pair of executives oversaw each show, while Feige remained the final decision maker on every significant creative issue, even though there were exponentially more decisions to make each day.

People who worked at Marvel in the early 2020s said it was challenging to secure enough time with Feige to get his feedback. As a result, they sometimes spent weeks on work that proved irrelevant once he weighed in, then found themselves with little time to implement his changes before a deadline.

Desperate staffers resorted to chasing Feige in the halls to get answers.

Long known as one of the most frugal studios in Hollywood, Marvel began spending like crazy. As at other media companies starting streaming services, cost was no object in the race to impress Wall Street with big increases in subscribers. Marvel series made in the early 2020s regularly cost more than $100 million a season and sometimes approached $200 million, because they included A-list actors and costly visual effects.

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‘Marvel fatigue’​

The internal dysfunction began to show in Marvel’s output. Viewers complained that there was too much Marvel content to keep up with and a growing proportion of it felt subpar.

“I loved it for so many years, but after all the TV shows and everything, it just started getting a little confusing and all over the place,” said Leslie Rodriguez, a 23-year-old social-media manager.

Fans rejected big-budget event series like the alien-attack drama “Secret Invasion,” starring Samuel L. Jackson. Shows the company was proud of, including “Ms. Marvel,” about a Pakistani American teenager who gains superpowers, failed to attract many viewers.

In theaters, Marvel’s biggest hits during this period were nostalgia plays that tied up old story lines, such as “Spider-Man: No Way Home” and “Deadpool & Wolverine.”

“Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania” was critical to the MCU’s future because it featured the title villain of the next planned Avengers sequel, subtitled “The Kang Dynasty.” But the early 2023 film flopped at the box office and was widely panned.

Employees talked regularly about “Marvel fatigue.” They worried they had created a “no new fans club,” in which people unfamiliar with the state of the MCU couldn’t watch a new release because they’d have no idea what was going on.

Meanwhile, Wall Street’s obsession with streaming growth gave way to a focus on profitability. Iger and Feige began scrutinizing Marvel’s costs and creative choices more closely. At the last second, Marvel decided the script for its vampire movie “Blade” wasn’t good enough and halted production in 2023, while equipment was being shipped to soundstages in Atlanta.

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Heroes from Marvel's heyday: Iron Man, Black Panther and Captain Marvel. Marvel/Everett Collection

When production started on the 2023 film “The Marvels,” the filmmakers got little attention from the overstretched Feige. After “Quantumania” bombed, Feige became more involved, hoping to avoid a second faceplant in one year.

The filmmakers cycled through dozens of versions of a voice-over to catch up viewers with plot points from past movies and series they needed to understand, but it wasn’t enough.

“The Marvels,” which cost around $300 million, was Marvel’s biggest-ever bomb, grossing just $206 million.

More Doom, less gloom​

Since Marvel’s early years, Feige’s parliament has gone to a retreat every fall in Palm Springs, Calif., where they would plan out the future of the MCU.

The get-together in 2023 was somber. Many of Marvel’s movies and TV shows weren’t working. The studio had just laid off employees for the first time in its history.

Parliament members discussed whether they could salvage plans for “Avengers: The Kang Dynasty.” They also talked about a new TV strategy in which shows would have plots divorced from the MCU, making them easier for new fans to understand.

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Marvel’s hit 2021 series ‘WandaVision’ continued the stories of two heroes from “Endgame” in a satirical sitcom world. Photo: Disney+/Everett Collection

The company decided to cut back significantly on TV production. “Quantity, in our case, diluted quality—and Marvel has suffered greatly from that,” Iger said at the New York Times’s Dealbook summit that November.

Marvel is releasing only one or two live-action streaming series annually starting next year, and has already ordered multiple seasons of some so their stories can continue without crossing over to the big screen. A senior executive is overseeing television so Feige can focus on film.

Marvel’s top priority is ensuring the next two Avengers extend the track record of the franchise, which has provided four of the company’s five highest-grossing films. Around early 2024, executives decided to dump Kang and started brainstorming who would make a better antagonist for their next superhero team-up.

Feige had been talking for more than a year to Robert Downey Jr., who played Iron Man and was beloved by fans, about returning to the MCU. They discussed his playing Dr. Doom, one of Marvel’s best known comic-book villains. But they hadn’t determined when or in what film.

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If fans like ‘Thunderbolts,’ which opened this week, they’ll likely be primed to see Marvel movies that follow. Photo: Walt Disney Co./Everett Collection

Marvel executives concluded that Downey was the solution to their Avengers problem. They retitled the 2026 movie “Avengers: Doomsday,” with their biggest star in the title role. Feige also rehired Anthony and Joe Russo, who directed Downey in “Avengers: Endgame.”

Bringing back the talent behind a blockbuster for a sequel is one of the most expensive propositions in Hollywood, but people who have worked with Feige say he likes to go back to people he trusts, particularly in moments of urgency.

To get fans excited about the new plan, Marvel had Downey take off a Dr. Doom mask and reveal himself at San Diego Comic-Con in 2024—a moment that immediately went viral online.

“I saw the whole announcement and, not to exaggerate, I fell to my knees,” Bailey Bowen, a 25-year-old teacher’s aide, said while peeking at the red carpet for the “Thunderbolts” premiere in Hollywood Monday.

In his introduction to the screening that night, “Thunderbolts” director Jake Schreier said: “When I first started on the movie, Kevin said, ‘Make it different.’ ” This weekend’s box-office receipts will show whether that’s what Marvel fans want.

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Robert Downey Jr., in green, revealing that he is to play Dr. Doom during a Comic-Con panel with Feige and directors Joe and Anthony Russo. Photo: Jesse Grant/Getty Images for Disney

In many ways, Marvel has reverted to its strategy from before the streaming boom, as if the past five years had been a bad dream.

As he did when Marvel Studios started, Feige has an expansive vision for his company’s big-screen future. The upcoming Avengers movies are expected to introduce the X-Men, one of Marvel’s most popular superhero teams, to the MCU. Feige has told colleagues he has a 10-year plan for the characters.

Source (Archive)
 
Seriously. The original Ms. Marvel was a no-nonsense Spec Ops agent that used to run missions with Weapon-X era Wolverine and Nick Fury before she got her powers.

They changed her to a girlboss with a bootleg version of Hal Jordans (Green Lanern) origin story.
Speaking of no-nonsense spec-ops agents, I'm guessing Disney doesn't realize that a not-insignificant reason people liked their movies was because of Scarlett Johanssen in tight latex catsuits.
 
As a kid I'd see a superhero comic and I'd be drawn in by the flashy colors and cool powers, but then I'd actually try to read them and even back then I could tell it sucked. The stories never went anywhere because nothing was ever planned out in a meaningful way and are just written as they go, there's endless drama and what amounts to superhero office politics, and as a child it was practically impossible to get into a comic that you weren't reading from the start because there was no way to go back and read what you missed. A kid will see marvel/DC comics and expect fun action packed violence, but instead end up with an insufferable incoherent experience. I remember the day I realized how jipped I was being by trying to follow along with this garbage at all, and in all my childhood wisdom, I buried the offending comic in my backyard alongside a slice of inedible chicken patty gristle from the school cafeteria.
 
There was literally a leaked meeting from Disney execs, posted on 4chan shortly after Endgame, where they were bragging that they were going to have "An Avengers with no straight white males by 2024" as their goal.

There is something wrong with the business world with these lot are hell bent on destroying the brand.

Sentry in comics, was killed off and now replaced with a niggress.

Ms Marvel got replaced with a brown but not only brown but a Paki as well, killing that character off.
 
There is something wrong with the business world with these lot are hell bent on destroying the brand.

Sentry in comics, was killed off and now replaced with a niggress.

Ms Marvel got replaced with a brown but not only brown but a Paki as well, killing that character off.
They did it with Star Wars too. By the end of the shitty sequel trilogy, they've gotten rid of all the straight white male heroes from the original and replaced them.

Hell, except for Poe, the only white guys are villains and/or dead by the end of the trilogy.

The entire Disney company has an agenda and they don't care if they ruin franchises and lose billions to push it.
 
The entire Disney company has an agenda and they don't care if they ruin franchises and lose billions to push it.
I heard an interesting theory that it is just straight up incompetence -- they got all these properties because they realized most Disney properties were either outright for women, or only still liked mostly by women, and they wanted more of the male market. Then they fucked it all up because they did what worked for them... Which is what got them into the situation they were trying to correct in the first place.
I'd believe it; it's a very typical corpo line of thinking. Don't change what you're doing, just acquire a property that already does what you want, then cry when you accidentally ruin it because you never changed what you're doing. Cry all the way to the bank because number went up regardless.
 
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However Fiege believed his own PR, staged his little coup, Iger sided with him, Perlmutter was sidelined as a prelude to ejection and Fiege gained control of Marvel.
i dont know, that was right when bob wanted to run for office and you just cant have a trump ally like Perlmutter as a major player in your company if you run as a dem
 
I would only consider watching a new marvel movie if
1. It wasn't part of the current MCU
2. It didn't follow the same formula that every marvel movie in the past 10 years has

Because as is I got tired of this shit after 2 movies

I mean just look at Amazon, they have two TV adaptations of indie comics ongoing right now and they both have substantially more cultural impact than any MCU project since the Thanos movie despite having 1/10th the budget and no recognizable characters
 
“I loved it for so many years, but after all the TV shows and everything, it just started getting a little confusing and all over the place,” said Leslie Rodriguez, a 23-year-old social-media manager.
23 yo
Maybe you grew up? (🌈)

Heroes from Marvel's heyday: Iron Man, Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
Male pattern baldness
Furry in a tree (is this a real Marvel photo? nuts if true)
Troon tits

The filmmakers cycled through dozens of versions of a voice-over to catch up viewers with plot points from past movies and series they needed to understand, but it wasn’t enough.
BUT IT WASN'T ENOUGH
nigga the "plot points from past movies and series they needed to understand" are themselves the problem

Marvel is releasing only one or two live-action streaming series annually starting next year, and has already ordered multiple seasons of some
Ahahahahahaahahahahaha

If fans like ‘Thunderbolts,’ which opened this week
Dirty hobos. The guy on the left looks like he found the suit in a dumpster after Halloween, with a hole on the butt, and decided to not mend it.

Fantastic Four is going to be a steaming pile of shit. I can tell because Pedro is in it and the Silver Surfer has tits.
Isn't the silver surfer basically a naked guy? Idk I'd rather watch a naked silver chick.
(I've only seen Darkman and Joker.)

Are they even willing to admit they're not baseline good in the first place?
Don't be facetious, their definition of good is "profitable". Which honestly makes sense for a highly advertised movie, no one's missing it because they just didn't know.
 
“I saw the whole announcement and, not to exaggerate, I fell to my knees,” Bailey Bowen, a 25-year-old teacher’s aide, said while peeking at the red carpet for the “Thunderbolts” premiere in Hollywood Monday.

Found the Redditor.

The problem for Disney is that the amount of Redditor-tier NPCs who make the fact that they like woke capeshit their whole personality, is inherently limited.

In order to sell their Marvel slop and turn a profit, they need to attract normal people too, and this is where they’ve failed.
 
The box office timeline displayed in the article leans heavily on Deadpool and Wolverine to show some life in the franchise. Seems a bit dishonest.

Technically it's a Marvel movie, sure, but that's not why people saw it. It feels like a whole separate thing, without that lame "last 10 yrs of MCU" stank.
Frankly, despite it being meant as a send-off to the Fox Marvel stuff, that film might well end up being the farewell to the overall Marvel stuff.
Furry in a tree (is this a real Marvel photo? nuts if true)
Had the same reaction, I speculated it might be a pre-cgi shot.
 
I would only consider watching a new marvel movie if
1. It wasn't part of the current MCU
2. It didn't follow the same formula that every marvel movie in the past 10 years has

Because as is I got tired of this shit after 2 movies

I mean just look at Amazon, they have two TV adaptations of indie comics ongoing right now and they both have substantially more cultural impact than any MCU project since the Thanos movie despite having 1/10th the budget and no recognizable characters

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In order to sell their Marvel slop and turn a profit, they need to attract normal people too, and this is where they’ve failed.
They spent the last 20 years chasing the "Modern Audience"

They found it

They thought it would be millions strong

In reality? Its a couple thousand terminally online Redditors and Movie Bob.

And worst of all? All the pandering to bring the meager extra thousand into the fold cost them everyone who wasn't a terminally online Redditor or Movie Bob, as normies can't stand those people or the "subtle" messaging injected into the movies to act as a lure for them.
 
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Seriously. The original Ms. Marvel was a no-nonsense Spec Ops agent that used to run missions with Weapon-X era Wolverine and Nick Fury before she got her powers.
False. The original Ms. Marvel was a Milf with some damn hot gammys who got a miraculous Jesus Christ style pregnancy. The Avengers all stood by and watched and while she shoved a baby out her twat in record time from conception to birth. Then she would proceed to fall in love with said son, who rapidly grew into an adult, because she saw this hentai before. She then declared her undying love for her son. She married him and they moved to a new dimension with him so they could breed a race of mother-son incest love babies. The Avengers all were perfectly okay with this. Love is love after all. Happy 200th Anniversary Issue, Avengers!!!!


That's the Ms. Marvel I remember. When are we getting this in the MSheU?
 
Don't be facetious, their definition of good is "profitable". Which honestly makes sense for a highly advertised movie, no one's missing it because they just didn't know.
I'm sure the shareholders feel that way. But without acknowledging that what they're producing is idealogue slop, the creatives will just deflect that it's because of 'market forces' or 'superhero fatigue' or any one of dozens of other things. As they have every time they've failed for the last decade.
 
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