Fallout series

[Mola Ram]

The Institute had two uses for FEV:

1. Use whatever they could from it to improve their synth program.
2. Toss all the rejects out to make the surface a bitch.


They long exhausted any benefit for the first goal very early on, and the second goal was basically the whole idea they were doing anything with the rest of the time.

They didn't give a shit about any other goals, like improving the resulting Super Mutants.

Eventually Virgil escaped the Institute and destroyed their labs when he realized just how morally bereft any further exercise of said experiments were.

Boy, wouldn't it be great if you could confront Father about this after crawling through the ruins of the FEV labs? But I guess we'd need it to be a role playing game for something like that to happen.

 

[Y2K Baby]

The Institute had two uses for FEV:

1. Use whatever they could from it to improve their synth program.
2. Toss all the rejects out to make the surface a bitch.


They long exhausted any benefit for the first goal very early on, and the second goal was basically the whole idea they were doing anything with the rest of the time.

They didn't give a shit about any other goals, like improving the resulting Super Mutants.

Eventually Virgil escaped the Institute and destroyed their labs when he realized just how morally bereft any further exercise of said experiments were.

That's really stupid.

 

[millais]

alright, I'm going to bite the bullet and try out those F4 DLCs now while waiting for New California mod release in Q4

 

[MightyBiteySnake]

Personally I never got too worked up over the Institute’s Super Mutants since as @GethN7 said, the institute was basically just using them to make life in the Commonwealth a living hell.

My question is: if Virgil destroyed the Institute’s FEV labs, where do the mutants keep coming from? I find it unlikely that the Institute dumped them into the Wastes with vats of FEV laying about.

Fortunately I don’t think that’s as much of a problem for 76 since “there was a military base not unlike Mariposa in WV and there’s where these mutants are based from” isn’t too crazy

Fallout 76, on the other hand, will be pushing things into outright ridiculous territory, and they are going to have to do a very good job trying to make me overcome my suspension of disbelief.

The power armor I agree is going to be silly, and T-60’s “lore” was haphazardly fit in, much like the X-01 (how is it going to be in WV 100 years before the Enclave invented it?)

 

[Y2K Baby]

never got too worked up over the Institute’s Super Mutants since as @GethN7 said, the institute was basically just using them to make life in the Commonwealth a living hell.

Why exactly though.

 

[GethN7]

Why exactly though.

They wrote off everyone above ground as basically being beyond hope, so dumping their Super Mutants above ground to raise hell was basically their way of keeping the above ground weak and divided so they wouldn't become a threat to the Institute.

Essentially, a modified version of how the Enclave planned to use FEV mutations to their benefit from FO2, just different motives.

 

[Y2K Baby]

They wrote off everyone above ground as basically being beyond hope, so dumping their Super Mutants above ground to raise hell was basically their way of keeping the above ground weak and divided so they wouldn't become a threat to the Institute.

Tell me how that isn't completely counter-productive when they're a tiny society with no real millitary and are clearly behind two massive fucking threats.

But it made sense for the Enclave and their plans were actually remotely competent.

 

[Red Hood]

What bugs me most about Bethesda's continued use of Super Mutants is that they don't develop them. Most of them are just mindless cannon fodder. FO1 had multiple mutants with distinct personalities, and at least the Lieutenant was pretty sharp. By FO2 the original mutants and nightkin were dealing with losing the Master and some were going about living normal (for the wasteland) lives, and by NV they've developed their own factions and settlements.

In the Bethesda games, aren't they still just mostly monsters? (I admit I haven't played F04 because my gaming equipment is beyond antiquated).

 

[GethN7]

Tell me how that isn't completely counter-productive when they're a tiny society with no real millitary and are clearly behind two massive fucking threats.

But it made sense for the Enclave and their plans were actually remotely competent.

Long term, I agree with you, even the game establishes it's a short term solution for a long term problem they didn't really think out too much.

The thing is that, short term, it's to their benefit to keep the Commonwealth divided, weak, and plagued with a ton of problems, they know they are weak and thus keeping the Commonwealth weak negates any disadvantages they have in terms of strength, or at least mitigates them.

What bugs me most about Bethesda's continued use of Super Mutants is that they don't develop them. Most of them are just mindless cannon fodder. By FO2 the original mutants and nightkin were dealing with losing the Master and some were going about living normal (for the wasteland) lives, and by NV they've developed their own factions and settlements.

In the Bethesda games, aren't they still just mostly monsters? (I admit I haven't played F04 because my gaming equipment is beyond antiquated).

The Institute breed of Super Mutants are halfway between the Mariposa and Vault 87 ones in intelligence, generally speaking.

They have the same superiority complex the Vault 87 ones do, but are capable of much more tactical acumen like the Mariposa variety.

You can even recruit one, and you find out they have a very communist like mindset and their society, while brutish, is based on communal values.

 

[Mola Ram]

What bugs me most about Bethesda's continued use of Super Mutants is that they don't develop them. Most of them are just mindless cannon fodder. By FO2 the original mutants and nightkin were dealing with losing the Master and some were going about living normal (for the wasteland) lives, and by NV they've developed their own factions and settlements.

In the Bethesda games, aren't they still just mostly monsters? (I admit I haven't played F04 because my gaming equipment is beyond antiquated).

There are so many things in Bethesda Fallout that are there just because they're identifiably "Falloutish." Raiders, super mutants, bottlecaps as currency, the generally bombed-out feel to absolutely everything. I think it's very telling than in every single one of these cases, their depiction was either more nuanced or reduced in both Fallout 2 and New Vegas. Forget everyone who tells you those are the best games in the franchise -- regardless of your opinion on them, they were obviously attempting to move the clock forward; refine the wasteland into a new society.

Bethesda isn't interested in that. They just want a post-nuclear sandbox, which is fun for what it is ... but it's not what it could be.

 

[Y2K Baby]

The thing is that, short term, it's to their benefit to keep the Commonwealth divided, weak, and plagued with a ton of problems, they know they are weak and thus keeping the Commonwealth weak negates any disadvantages they have in terms of strength, or at least mitigates them.

But there would be zero conflict if they didn't expose themselves and randomly fuck everyone over?

 

[GethN7]

There are so many things in Bethesda Fallout that are there just because they're identifiably "Falloutish." Raiders, super mutants, bottlecaps as currency, the generally bombed-out feel to absolutely everything. I think it's very telling than in every single one of these cases, their depiction was either more nuanced or reduced in both Fallout 2 and New Vegas. Forget everyone who tells you those are the best games in the franchise -- regardless of your opinion on them, they were obviously attempting to move the clock forward; refine the wasteland into a new society.

Bethesda isn't interested in that. They just want a post-nuclear sandbox, which is fun for what it is ... but it's not what it could be.

Fallout 4 is a semi-step in the FO2/NV direction. The story is that the Commonwealth tried to unite, it ended because the Institute ironically fucked up an attempt to make things better in an abortive attempt to ally with the Commonwealth, and now they are divided and weak because the Institute fears they'll be a target if they do unite once more.

The goal is to rebuild the Commonwealth into an actual united society, as opposed to scattered outposts of humanity.

But there would be zero conflict if they didn't expose themselves and randomly fuck everyone over?

They tried that once. It ended very badly when one of their synths went rogue, started a massacre and turned the Commonwealth against them.

Since then, they quit trying because the PR damage was just that bad.

 

[Y2K Baby]

They tried that once. It ended very badly when one of their synths went rogue, started a massacre and turned the Commonwealth against them.

Since then, they quit trying because the PR damage was just that bad.

I said they started to expose themselves when they actively antagonize people.
No, it's all very, very dumb. "Oops we fucked up and caused an accidental massacre so let's hide" >>> "lol let's with fuck with them"

It'd be extremely unlikely for the entire Commonwealth to band together to murder them over something that wasn't directly their fault. Much less, years and years and years later. They WOULD do that if you did everything in your power to sabatoge their lives.

It's dumb.

 

[MightyBiteySnake]

Why exactly though.

But there would be zero conflict if they didn't expose themselves and randomly fuck everyone over?

Any problem with Faction logic in FO4 can be broken down to sloppy writing.

The Institute comes out as boring and falls flat because they don’t have the cool enemies, an interesting backstory, charismatic leader, or a bitching final boss.

 

[GethN7]

I said they started to expose themselves when they actively antagonize people.
No, it's all very, very dumb. "Oops we fucked up and caused an accidental massacre so let's hide" >>> "lol let's with fuck with them"

It'd be extremely unlikely for the entire Commonwealth to band together to murder them over something that wasn't directly their fault. Much less, years and years and years later. They WOULD do that if you did everything in your power to sabatoge their lives.

It's dumb.

And thus you get to the whole point of the game.

THEY ARE WRONG, and that's why you can ally with them and even get the Minutemen to ally with them, and in the process, you can reform the Institute into something less asinine.

 

[Y2K Baby]

The Institute comes out as boring and falls flat because they don’t have the cool enemies, an interesting backstory, charismatic leader, or a bitching final boss.

I don't know what they want besides "to look like Apple."

And thus you get to the whole point of the game.

THEY ARE WRONG, and that's why you can ally with them and even get the Minutemen to ally with them, and in the process, you can reform the Institute into something less asinine.

I like how the whole point of the game is that a group of super scientists is completely retarded.

 

[Burned Man]

What was their goal with the synths anyway? They just seem to keep making them more and more like humans but get upset and act surprised when they start thinking they are equal to humans.

I like how the whole point of the game is that a group of super scientists is completely exceptional.

Sounds like Big Mountain.

 

[GethN7]

I like how the whole point of the game is that a group of super scientists is completely exceptional.

It's kinda what makes the Institute interesting if you choose to reform them.

They are so obsessed with SCIENCE that logic has passed them by, and if they applied critical thinking, they'd realize their logic for how said science was applied was idiotic in execution, not to mention their entire world view is myopic to an absurd extreme.

If you choose to help them and reform them, you lead them away from this sort of illogical bullshit.

You can also choose to be no better if you want as well.

 

[Red Hood]

Fallout 4 is a semi-step in the FO2/NV direction. The story is that the Commonwealth tried to unite, it ended because the Institute ironically fucked up an attempt to make things better in an abortive attempt to ally with the Commonwealth, and now they are divided and weak because the Institute fears they'll be a target if they do unite once more.

The goal is to rebuild the Commonwealth into an actual united society, as opposed to scattered outposts of humanity.



They tried that once. It ended very badly when one of their synths went rogue, started a massacre and turned the Commonwealth against them.

Since then, they quit trying because the PR damage was just that bad.

Goddamn it. If there's one story thing I fault the FO1/2 teams with, it's overuse of the word "Commonwealth". It's an uncommon word in the modern day and having both US and European commonwealths is confusing as hell.

 

[Y2K Baby]

They just seem to keep making them more and more like humans but get upset and act surprised when they start thinking they are equal to humans.

Synths are made completely out of synthetic organs (aka just real organs) but have a tube in their head that barks orders at them. They're basically just cyborgs. It's really....
Cool.

It's kinda what makes the Institute interesting if you choose to reform them.

They are so obsessed with SCIENCE that logic has passed them by, and if they applied critical thinking, they'd realize their logic for how said science was applied was idiotic in execution, not to mention their entire world view is myopic to an absurd extreme.

If you choose to help them and reform them, you lead them away from this sort of illogical bullshit.

You can also choose to be no better if you want as well.

"Science is fucking stupid." - Todd Howard.