Fallout series

[Snekposter]

I wasn't talking any sort of purely military conquest when I said "submit", but the fact that due to the NCR's size and the dwindling numbers and capability of the BoS they'd mostly likely be forced to formally join the NCR in some manner in order to survive, and the fact they're on good terms means they'd be allowed to keep a great deal of autonomy and their own culture in exchange for providing specialists, both military and scientific/technical, and technology itself to the NCR. Even if they do have the capabilities to get by on their own, some sort of formal agreement with the NCR would allow them to achieve much more than merely being on good terms. And yes, I'm aware of the changes in relations between the two in the NCR territories, especially because of the team effort that was taking down Navarro.

 

[The Real SVP]

The Algorithm™ revealed something to me:

Spoiler

I am scared, now. I am so scared...

 

[Burned Man]

Keep in mind that it may not have been the entire Brotherhood that fought the NCR. The Mojave chapter is but one chapter, and may have been considered rouge by the Brotherhood at some point given that Elijah was kind of batshit insane and did insane shit and that it's quite likely there's been no contact between the main Brotherhood and the Mojave Chapter since the incident at Helios. If I remember correctly there's supposed to be a state in the NCR called Maxson which was named for the BoS founder, and that the territory of Lost Hills was, despite it's proximity to Shady Sands, independent BoS territory. Hell, in the second game the Brotherhood was implied to be on pretty good terms with the NCR.

So yeah, wouldn't put it past the main Brotherhood council to declare the Mojave chapter rouge and tell the NCR it's fine to fight against them. Why the fuck would you risk war with the NCR over one batshit old man's vision which we find out is even fucking worse than Caesar's?

Edit: Something I completely forgot that adds some credibility to this theory: Christine Royce, after Elijah used his influence to fuck over her relationship with Veronica, ends up joining the Circle of Steel which is an organization within the Brotherhood that is basically their secret police. She was sent to actually execute Elijah for his betrayal of the Brotherhood and probably for jeopardizing their relationship with the NCR. And also because he's a dangerous and deranged old shit, as we see throughout both Old World Blues and Dead Money.
It could be seen that the "alliance" between the NCR and the Mojave chapter is less an actual alliance and more the Mojave chapter being brought back into compliance with the alliance already established between the main Brotherhood and the NCR.

I don't think any one man or incident was responsible for the war. The NCR wants to pursue science and technological advancement to establish its dominance and is reminiscent of the pre war United States. The BOS was formed from US deserters in the aftermath of the war that swore to prevent another holocaust from happening by ensuring man never had the technological means to do it again. It makes sense that tension would exist between the two groups. Even after being comrades in the Enclave war their disagreements would only increase with all the new exciting and dangerous Enclave stuff left behind. The only way their war will end is one side compromises their core goals and beliefs.

Father Elijah isn't on the BOS's hitlist for messing with the NCR but because he was a radical that wanted to prevent the Brotherhood's downfall by any means including developing and using weapons of mass destruction against the NCR. Elijah compromised the core beliefs of the Brotherhood to preserve the Brotherhood that made him dangerous to the council.

I could see the Brotherhood admitting the war in unwinnable and concede to the NCR, but they aren't exclusively a military organization. They'll want something more then a spot in the NCR as elite forces . They'll also want some sort of role in the science division too if only to monitor their progress.

 

[faint horizons]

The Algorithm™ revealed something to me:
*clipped for allah*
I am scared, now. I am so scared...

This is why YouTube was down for a while.

I hate when people try to take their weirdly non-lore modded playthroughs and make YouTube videos about their weird sex-modded Fallout game.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

I don't think any one man or incident was responsible for the war. The NCR wants to pursue science and technological advancement to establish its dominance and is reminiscent of the pre war United States. The BOS was formed from US deserters in the aftermath of the war that swore to prevent another holocaust from happening by ensuring man never had the technological means to do it again. It makes sense that tension would exist between the two groups. Even after being comrades in the Enclave war their disagreements would only increase with all the new exciting and dangerous Enclave stuff left behind. The only way their war will end is one side compromises their core goals and beliefs.

Father Elijah isn't on the BOS's hitlist for messing with the NCR but because he was a radical that wanted to prevent the Brotherhood's downfall by any means including developing and using weapons of mass destruction against the NCR. Elijah compromised the core beliefs of the Brotherhood to preserve the Brotherhood that made him dangerous to the council.

I could see the Brotherhood admitting the war in unwinnable and concede to the NCR, but they aren't exclusively a military organization. They'll want something more then a spot in the NCR as elite forces . They'll also want some sort of role in the science division too if only to monitor their progress.

Actually it seems I was wrong, and so were you. There was full scale war between the entire Brotherhood and the NCR, and there was indeed one man responsible. Jeremy Maxson. He was the one who noticed that the Brotherhood was "drifting from it's course". So he instituted the policies of seizing tech from people and trying to restore the BoS's privilege and prestige over the NCR. Not going well at all, it seems as the Brotherhood in the west coast has gone into hiding after getting their chitters stomped in by sheer weight of numbers. But there's an upside, seems the courier brokering a truce, or some sort of truce being brokered at some other time, is canon and by 2287 Lost Hills is indeed still under Brotherhood control. And that the DC chapter has indeed reestablished contact with the California Brotherhood.

So I think, considering how big and powerful the DC Brotherhood got after they defeated the Enclave (and of course the Lone Wanderer also trading a lot of tech and especially Enclave tech to the Outcasts for ammo and medicine) and the Outcasts and main Brotherhood eventually reuniting under Arthur Maxson and absorbed their tech, they must have sent a bunch of that shit back west via veritbird and reinforced the fuck out of it.

And I fucking hate that they just killed off Sarah Lyons between games. That was absolute bullshit and a half and she fucking deserved better.

 

[faint horizons]

Actually it seems I was wrong, and so were you. There was full scale war between the entire Brotherhood and the NCR, and there was indeed one man responsible. Jeremy Maxson. He was the one who noticed that the Brotherhood was "drifting from it's course". So he instituted the policies of seizing tech from people and trying to restore the BoS's privilege and prestige over the NCR. Not going well at all, it seems as the Brotherhood in the west coast has gone into hiding after getting their chitters stomped in by sheer weight of numbers. But there's an upside, seems the courier brokering a truce, or some sort of truce being brokered at some other time, is canon and by 2287 Lost Hills is indeed still under Brotherhood control. And that the DC chapter has indeed reestablished contact with the California Brotherhood.

So I think, considering how big and powerful the DC Brotherhood got after they defeated the Enclave (and of course the Lone Wanderer also trading a lot of tech and especially Enclave tech to the Outcasts for ammo and medicine) and the Outcasts and main Brotherhood eventually reuniting under Arthur Maxson and absorbed their tech, they must have sent a bunch of that shit back west via veritbird and reinforced the fuck out of it.

And I fucking hate that they just killed off Sarah Lyons between games. That was absolute bullshit and a half and she fucking deserved better.

I really like how Bethesda themselves just threw away their own writing. Yeah, that character we spent an entire game having you empathize over while you searched for your father and liberated this irradiated hellhole with? Yeah? Yeah she's just dead now, lol.

This is why I hate Emil Pagliarulo. While I may not necessarily blame the guy, he's only had a couple of hits and MANY misses, such as that stupid ass 'yeah you have to go into the irradiated chamber that will kill you and not reward you if you had the foresight to bring the one Super Mutant you can be companions with and the fact that this fuckwad writes like he's throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Uhhhhh... yeah they liked that whole father shit right? How about we... uhh... fucking flip it over it's head... and say YOU"RE the father but the son was like older because you were at a cryo vault, yeah!

This is exclusively Josh Sawyer's baby and I hope the fact that Bethesda is now a Microsoft-owned venture means we'll get Josh Sawyer back to writing ACTUAL Fallout games and not whatever drop baby bullshit they've been cooking up since F4 and 76.

 

[Burned Man]

MANY misses, such as that stupid ass 'yeah you have to go into the irradiated chamber that will kill you and not reward you if you had the foresight to bring the one Super Mutant you can be companions with

Or the robot companion or the ghoul companion that is supposed to do whatever the one holding his contract says to do. Even Star Paladin Cross the honorable old soldier guilting the 19 year old civilian go into the death chamber feels a little off. You need to do it for your dad. No I'm pretty sure me dying is the last thing he'd want considering everything he's previously done.

 

[faint horizons]

Or the robot companion or the ghoul companion that is supposed to do whatever the one holding his contract says to do. Even Star Paladin Cross the honorable old soldier guilting the 19 year old civilian go into the death chamber feels a little off. You need to do it for your dad. No I'm pretty sure me dying is the last thing he'd want considering everything he's previously done.

Then Bethesda sells that common sense mistake into DLC! Broken Steel everyone!

 

[Billy "the Bot" Bobson]

This is exclusively Josh Sawyer's baby and I hope the fact that Bethesda is now a Microsoft-owned venture means we'll get Josh Sawyer back to writing ACTUAL Fallout games and not whatever drop baby bullshit they've been cooking up since F4 and 76.

More like Avellone, Cain, and Fargos baby, if we're talking Fallout broadly here. I fucking wish it was Sawyer and Avellone though.

As an aside, I like how everyone else has forgotten about the Shi and the Hubologists. Frisco in general is a no go for the NCR. They aren't as powerful as they like to present themselves.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

I really like how Bethesda themselves just threw away their own writing. Yeah, that character we spent an entire game having you empathize over while you searched for your father and liberated this irradiated hellhole with? Yeah? Yeah she's just dead now, lol.

This is why I hate Emil Pagliarulo. While I may not necessarily blame the guy, he's only had a couple of hits and MANY misses, such as that stupid ass 'yeah you have to go into the irradiated chamber that will kill you and not reward you if you had the foresight to bring the one Super Mutant you can be companions with and the fact that this fuckwad writes like he's throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. Uhhhhh... yeah they liked that whole father shit right? How about we... uhh... fucking flip it over it's head... and say YOU"RE the father but the son was like older because you were at a cryo vault, yeah!

This is exclusively Josh Sawyer's baby and I hope the fact that Bethesda is now a Microsoft-owned venture means we'll get Josh Sawyer back to writing ACTUAL Fallout games and not whatever drop baby bullshit they've been cooking up since F4 and 76.

If you put me in charge of Fallout I would work around everything Bethesda has done.
Kill Sarah Lyons offscreen? Well that's bullshit and I pull a minor retcon. They never recovered her body and as it turns out she IS still alive having been found and patched up by wastelanders before spending a while helping out their community in thanks before moving on to follow the Brotherhood. But as it turns out, Maxson was hiding something in FO4. When Sarah tried to come back he basically exiled her, and several other members of the Brotherhood who objected to that course of action. And so they went off with her to try and continue with her father's vision elsewhere, but now THEY are the Outcasts.

Not the best situation to find herself in, but more respectful than what she fucking got.

 

[faint horizons]

If you put me in charge of Fallout I would work around everything Bethesda has done.
Kill Sarah Lyons offscreen? Well that's bullshit and I pull a minor retcon. They never recovered her body and as it turns out she IS still alive having been found and patched up by wastelanders before spending a while helping out their community in thanks before moving on to follow the Brotherhood. But as it turns out, Maxson was hiding something in FO4. When Sarah tried to come back he basically exiled her, and several other members of the Brotherhood who objected to that course of action. And so they went off with her to try and continue with her father's vision elsewhere, but now THEY are the Outcasts.

Not the best situation to find herself in, but more respectful than what she fucking got.

I think another point of contention is how that if you side with the Brotherhood in FO4 there's no way to get rid of Maxson or convince him to not nuke the everloving fuck out of the Institute. I would honestly prefer Sarah Lyons to come back rather than the snot nose now suave shooting man from Lamplight who is so forgettable I've already forgotten his name. Paladin Danse can exist in some capacity, but imagine if you could have two sides of the coin, similar to how the McNamara/Hardin situation was done in New Vegas. The breadth of potential to convincing Sarah to wage open war against the Brotherhood to potentially using the synth-creating technology for good or just merely utilizing the synths in a more productive way, treat them as people, maybe even arching over to assisting the Railroad. It almost seemed like they saw how 'morally grey' New Vegas was and the hacks that wrote FO4 were like, "Yeah, let's make it grey but make their motives to be as opaque as possible that a five year old could figure out."

I'm under the impression that FO4's story, and by extension the story AFTER FO3 was written so poorly it can barely pass as fanfiction. I get deadlines but come on, you gave MacCready a comeback arc but literally just wiped out Sarah? It just baffles me why they thought this was a good idea.

 

[King Ghidorah]

I've decided to go through with the ash Williams character run in new vegas I'm pretty sure I've got the general build ideas down but in rp terms wmim not sure who I should have him side with (legion is obviously right out)

 

[Milwaukee Macho Man]

I think another point of contention is how that if you side with the Brotherhood in FO4 there's no way to get rid of Maxson or convince him to not nuke the everloving fuck out of the Institute. I would honestly prefer Sarah Lyons to come back rather than the snot nose now suave shooting man from Lamplight who is so forgettable I've already forgotten his name. Paladin Danse can exist in some capacity, but imagine if you could have two sides of the coin, similar to how the McNamara/Hardin situation was done in New Vegas. The breadth of potential to convincing Sarah to wage open war against the Brotherhood to potentially using the synth-creating technology for good or just merely utilizing the synths in a more productive way, treat them as people, maybe even arching over to assisting the Railroad. It almost seemed like they saw how 'morally grey' New Vegas was and the hacks that wrote FO4 were like, "Yeah, let's make it grey but make their motives to be as opaque as possible that a five year old could figure out."

I'm under the impression that FO4's story, and by extension the story AFTER FO3 was written so poorly it can barely pass as fanfiction. I get deadlines but come on, you gave MacCready a comeback arc but literally just wiped out Sarah? It just baffles me why they thought this was a good idea.

Cant Sarah die in 3? That's probably why.

 

[Cod of War]

Cant Sarah die in 3? That's probably why.

She can if you send her into the purifier, but according to FO4 she dies after her father and he survived FO3.

 

[faint horizons]

She can if you send her into the purifier, but according to FO4 she dies after her father and he survived FO3.

Which just begs the question, why? What's the goddamn point in keeping her alive if you're literally just going to erase her a few pages later?

 

[Cod of War]

Which just begs the question, why? What's the goddamn point in keeping her alive if you're literally just going to erase her a few pages later?

Maxson being leader harkens back to FO1 and they want them nostalgia points? That's all I got.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

Maxson being leader harkens back to FO1 and they want them nostalgia points? That's all I got.

There are some hints that the Brotherhood's post-FO3 history may have been deliberately muddled by Maxson to make himself look like the natural leader for the BoS. Particularly I reference a story about Maxson killing a deathclaw at the age of 10. Now that is utter bullshit, even for someone trained by the BoS. But if you wanted to make the new recruits idolize and follow their leader, you make him look like he was naturally born to lead. We are left in the dark about what happened to the Capitol Wasteland after FO3. There are stories from people born in the CW that make it very clear that it is still a very dangerous place. We have no mention about the Lone Wanderer from the Brotherhood, despite them being central to the Brotherhood's victory in the CW.

This is what I am thinking. Elder Lyons died sometime after Broken Steel, and with him went to radical philosophy of helping wastelanders instead of recovering technology. Maxson is placed in command by members of the BoS who did not like Lyons's philosophy. The Outcasts rejoin and the Brotherhood controls the distribution of water, maybe guaranteeing access to water to recruits and their families. The Lone Wanderer's good karma attitude means that they are furious with the BoS but doesn't kill them because while their methods are selfish, they are creating some stability in the CW. The Lone Wanderer leaves for parts unknown (maybe goes back to Mothership Zeta and is currently waging war with the Zetans). Subsequently, the BoS writes the Lone Wanderer out of their narrative and makes it look like they were the only ones who defeated the Enclave and purified the Potomac. Rivet City is possibly cannibalized to make the Prydwen and Dr. Li flees to the Institute over the continued military presence of the BoS. Sarah Lyons, one of the last believers in Elder Lyons's philosophy either dies in the line of duty or is killed by the Brotherhood and made to look like she died fighting an enemy. By 2287 the Eastern BoS is firmly under the control of Arthur Maxson and follows the belief that they should eliminate any misuse of technology, be it machine or mutation. They seem to allow for local autonomy in return for some resource tax, at least in Boston. But it is clear that people want to join the Brotherhood, given their influx of recruits. All that remains to be seen is whether they will turn into tyrants with their technological dominance.

 

[Friendly Primarina]

Spoiler: Dead Money spoilers

I just discovered that, when dealing with Dog/God in the kitchen, you can play the "Dog Command Tape" and he will initiate dialog the second he sees you. That way you don't have to do the difficult task of fixing the valves before he sees you.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

Spoiler: Dead Money spoilers

I just discovered that, when dealing with Dog/God in the kitchen, you can play the "Dog Command Tape" and he will initiate dialog the second he sees you. That way you don't have to do the difficult task of fixing the valves before he sees you.

Aaaand wouldn't you know it, you posted this just as I was finishing up Dead Money. Ah well, it all worked out anyway.
God and Dog is actually one of my favorite characters from the DLC.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

As a story DLC, Dead Money is a work of art. As a gameplay DLC, it's Kaizo Mario meets Halo 2 on Legendary. Even on a milk toast Easy run I had a shit time. Still felt good ripping off Elijah and walking away with those gold bars, though. That and the Sierra Madre machine with the respawning chips and vouchers ensured I had unlimited supplies and cash. Combine that with the lair you get from Old World Blues, and you get one hell of a fortress where you can repair and store everything.