Fallout series

[Overcast]

After recently completing Dead Money, I came to the conclusion that Mojave chapter Brotherhood is the most interesting depiction of BoS in any Fallout game. There is some shit going on in their backstory and some of the characters are so well-written. But it seems that most players actually dislike them. Sad! Also sucks that we will never have that BoS in any other Fallout game again, since they are Bethesda's poster boys now, and Bethasda likes to simplify their charcters to make them as simple and toothless as possible, so not to confuse their playerbase. Damn, I just want the Brotherhood to be a truly neutral faction of jerkasses who squat around in their bunker and harass anybody who has something more technologically advanced then a toaster. Is it so much to ask? They work better as a side faction, not as the focus of the whole game.

They truly are a fantastic example of cruel irony.

They have the capability to change things for the better, but their stubborn ways and refusal to adapt dooms them. Hell, even in Fallout 1 you had the Lost Hills chapter who upon hearing news of the Mutants, automatically jump to hunkering down and will only give you a handful of Paladins to help you open the fucking front door of the Military Base.

 

[UselessPieceOfShit]

They truly are a fantastic example of cruel irony.

They have the capability to change things for the better, but their stubborn ways and refusal to adapt dooms them. Hell, even in Fallout 1 you had the Lost Hills chapter who upon hearing news of the Mutants, automatically jump to hunkering down and will only give you a handful of Paladins to help you open the fucking front door of the Military Base.

True.

They are hardly likeble people and it's hard to sympathize with them, yet their story that stretches from FO1 to FNV is truly fascinating and reflects themes that are present in the games.

I read in one of interviews from the creators of FO1 that they picked post-apocaliptyc setting partialy because of the themes that it can touch. The wasteland brings out the best and worst things in people, your character can be a hero that can bring hope to humanity or a villain like that motherfucker in The Road Warrior. Your character leaved the vault for a cruel and merciless world which can chew on and spit out anyone who is not strong enough to survive it. Yet, the vault dweller has the potential to not sucumb to it and bring goodness to its people. Now, the Brotherhood, they didn't pass that test. Their founders created BoS from ulterior motives, to save technology so it will not fall into wrong hands and so they can pass it to people who can help build a new society. Yet after some time, these dweebs used the codex to fuel their feeling of self-righteousness and in the end became just another faction who slap-fights over resources and territory like anyone else in the wasteland. The only difference is that they have high-tec toys.

Also, small detail, but one things in FNV that I like about them is that... They are kinda normal? You hear from other characters that the Brotherhood is a dangerous faction of dogmatic elitists. Yet when you walk around their bunker you can see that they are people who have something more going on in their lives other then being jerkasses with a hard on for technology. Like, when you bring Veronica with you, she will get into a catfight with some BoS apprentice. Some guys sneaked out of the bunker to fuck around with radscorpions. The elder seems like an alright guy, but his fears and doubts cause him make the wrong choices. I wanted to write something about Bethesda making them one-note characters who only care about killing muties and cynths, but I don't want to come off as a NMA user.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

True.

They are hardly likeble people and it's hard to sympathize with them, yet their story that stretches from FO1 to FNV is truly fascinating and reflects themes that are present in the games.

I read in one of interviews from the creators of FO1 that they picked post-apocaliptyc setting partialy because of the themes that it can touch. The wasteland brings out the best and worst things in people, your character can be a hero that can bring hope to humanity or a villain like that motherfucker in The Road Warrior. Your character leaved the vault for a cruel and merciless world which can chew on and spit out anyone who is not strong enough to survive it. Yet, the vault dweller has the potential to not sucumb to it and bring goodness to its people. Now, the Brotherhood, they didn't pass that test. Their founders created BoS from ulterior motives, to save technology so it will not fall into wrong hands and so they can pass it to people who can help build a new society. Yet after some time, these dweebs used the codex to fuel their feeling of self-righteousness and in the end became just another faction who slap-fights over resources and territory like anyone else in the wasteland. The only difference is that they have high-tec toys.

View attachment 3596233

Also, small detail, but one things in FNV that I like about them is that... They are kinda normal? You hear from other characters that the Brotherhood is a dangerous faction of dogmatic elitists. Yet when you walk around their bunker you can see that they are people who have something more going on in their lives other then being jerkasses with a hard on for technology. Like, when you bring Veronica with you, she will get into a catfight with some BoS apprentice. Some guys sneaked out of the bunker to fuck around with radscorpions. The elder seems like an alright guy, but his fears and doubts cause him make the wrong choices. I wanted to write something about Bethesda making them one-note characters who only care about killing muties and cynths, but I don't want to come off as a NMA user.

That's the natural endpoint of having a dogma that says "fuck all man-made abominations of science!" Sure, that idea came from good intentions to help cleanse the wasteland, and within the Brotherhood of Steel, there will be people who are sensible, (Roger Maxson) pragmatic, (McNamara) and even those who are charitable. (Owyn and Sarah Lyons) But at the end of the day, Brotherhood dogma calls for the death of all unnatural abominations made by science, and in their minds, mutants and synths qualify as such. Especially since the Fallout 4 Brotherhood is a rather successful chapter that is expanding, zealots who are living in a time of plenty will attribute that prospetiy to their belief system, believing that they were right to eradicate the mutants and the Enclave in the capital, and eradicating the synths in Boston is merely a continuation of this glorious crusade.

I'd say the difference is that the FNV Brotherhood has been laid low, so they can't afford to pick and choose. They're far more humble and they're thankful if the Courier joins them and aids them. All they want is to be left alone, and they're even willing to compromise with their old NCR enemies just to stay afloat. Whereas Arthur Maxson is outright bossy with the Sole Survivor regarding his mandate to kill all synths, because his organization has been successful so far, and he believes he's in the right. They've won their previous wars against powerful foes like the Enclave and the Super Mutants, they've got their dicks wet, they're going on crusades against foreign enemies, so why would they compromise now?

In reality, though, Bethesda rewriting the Brotherhood as cartoon racists was due to people nagging on Fallout 3 for making them too friendly, so Bethesda decided to go the exact opposite route and made them assholes.

 

[UselessPieceOfShit]

Especially since the Fallout 4 Brotherhood is a rather successful chapter that is expanding, zealots who are living in a time of plenty will attribute that prospetiy to their belief system, believing that they were right to eradicate the mutants and the Enclave in the capital, and eradicating the synths in Boston is merely a continuation of this glorious crusade.

I'm talking mostly about West Coast BoS, Bethesda's Brotherhood feels way different. They branched off from main BoS and adapted to Capital Wasteland thanks to Lyons, adapting rather different set of believes. Although it can be said that they are closer to Maxson's OG Brotherhood, as he envisioned them, since in FO3 the Brotherhood actually tries to be helpful.

Then in FO4, they are back to being agressive turboautists. Not only that, but they create some sort of personality cult around Arthur Maxson and their war againsts synths and mutants almost feels like some sort of jihad (they call synths "unholy", if I remember it right). This makes them different not only to West Coast BoS (who are zealots, but not THAT much of a zealots, for fucks sake). Not only that, but they changed different compared to FO3. Personally I blame Bethesda's schizophrenic writers for this bullshit.

I'd say the difference is that the FNV Brotherhood has been laid low, so they can't afford to pick and choose. They're far more humble and they're thankful if the Courier joins them and aids them. All they want is to be left alone, and they're even willing to compromise with their old NCR enemies just to stay afloat.

I felt that they made truce with NCR because of geniune desire for change and not simply because of plain pragmatism. In most endings they really hit low and either get wiped out completely or became simple raiders who harass and rob merchants. To achieve good ending you actually need to complete this one annoying ass fetch quest and convince them to change their worldview which feels like they want to be something more than glorified bandits. Idk, just a metter of perspective.

believing that they were right to eradicate the mutants and the Enclave in the capital

The Enclave are bad baddie evil guys in FO3, what else they had to do? Sit on their asses so Eden can poison the water and turn the fricking frogs gay kill every living thing in the capital wasteland?

In reality, though, Bethesda rewriting the Brotherhood as cartoon racists was due to people nagging on Fallout 3 for making them too friendly, so Bethesda decided to go the exact opposite route and made them assholes.

And not even cool kind of assholes. They still feel as cartooney as FO3 BoS. The only good thing about them is that Dense and Arthur are some fine himbos

Man, I'm shitting on FO4 so hard, even though I kinda liked this game. The story though... Is there a mod that completely removes the dialogue from the game and turns it into a hardcore survival, like DUST for FNV?

 

[Saturnalia-1918]

I keep hearing about how the Brotherhood in Fallout 4 is turbo racist compared to their previous depiction in Fallout 3 and I just can't see how they're anymore racist than the rest of the wasteland.

East Coast Super Mutants are man eating, raiding, savage pieces of shit with literally only 3 Super Mutants who won't try to kill and eat you.

All missions dedicated to killing ghouls makes it clear they are only targeting Ferals in their kill missions.

Even in regards to non feral ghouls, the F3 Brotherhood wasn't some bastion of tolerance that everyone pretends it was. Brotherhood soldiers shot at passing ghouls near the settlement of Underworld and Elder Lyons, the supposed saintly Uber good tragic martyr whose ideals where abandoned, mandated that Aqua Pura not be given to the non feral ghouls even if the ghouls wanted to buy them (the Scribe in charge had to sell them under the table to a third party in order for the Ghouls of Underworld to get Aqua Pura).

And again, for being horrific mutant haters, canonically the F4 Brotherhood as far less Ghoul blood on their hands than wastelanders. Like Diamond City's Mayor McDonagh winning an election on ghoul hatred and successfully leading an effort to expel all ghouls leading to multiple deaths, or the Railroad being appalled that Deacon survival altered himself to look like a ghoul leading to public revulsion amongst the leadership.

As for Synths, no one in the Commonwealth likes Synths besides the Railroad. Diamond City basically is in a hysterical witch-hunt over suspected Synths (excluding openly robot Valentine), Goodneighbor, a supposed bastion of freedom, guns down people on the suspicion of a Synth, an entire settlement, Covenant, is dedicated towards capturing, torturing, and killing Synths with the goal of being more efficient at identifying and killing Synths. Anti synth attitudes aren't a rarity in the Commonwealth.

And as we see the level of paranoia is justified as with literally a single password a Synth can be factory reset and turn on you once the Synth is identified. The Railroad's only solution to this is facial surgery, mind wiping, and leaving the Commonwealth just for a chance for the Synths not to be caught or factory reset.

Tldr, every one accuses the F4 Brotherhood of being super racist when their beliefs are either the wasteland norm or haven't changed since Lyon's day.

 

[Snekposter]

harass anybody who has something more technologically advanced then a toaster.

That's actually the thing about them. They don't. They're so super-obsessed with shit like energy weapons and power armor that Veronica showing up with the Vault 22 data on how to grow super-plants and saying "Hey, we'll be able to feed ourselves and be self-sufficient" is dismissed with a wave about how Maxson didn't found the Brotherhood to be botanists. They'll take one look at a miraculously intact steel foundry like in The Pitt and fuck off after salvaging everything more advanced than a Protectron from the place. Their turbo-autist focus on making sure none of the horrors of the Old World return blinds them to new possibilities. You touched on that a bit in your later post but I just thought I'd expand on that.

Goodneighbor, a supposed bastion of freedom, guns down people on the suspicion of a Synth

Goodneighbor guns people down on suspicion of being a Synth spy who has replaced a prior citizen. Which is what happens in that event in the street. A man is reported as acting funny by his friends for no real reason, and the call comes down to take him out as an infiltrator. Hell, the guards remark how its a shitty job since they've got to bring news of a man's death to his woman, IIRC. Its not like the Institute leaves the people they've replaced alive, after all. One random encounter has a synth deciding to chill out and drink with the man he was supposed to replace instead of killing him and disposing of the body which is what typically happens. That and once someone's dead its clear if they were a synth or not since even the latest generations all have Synth Components inside of them as loot. Hell, Old Man Stockton even knows his actual daughter was killed off by the Institute and keeps the synth replacement around as a means of coping with his grief, so it isn't like synths are perfect imitators of people.

 

[Mulva69]

 

[Saturnalia-1918]

That's actually the thing about them. They don't. They're so super-obsessed with shit like energy weapons and power armor that Veronica showing up with the Vault 22 data on how to grow super-plants and saying "Hey, we'll be able to feed ourselves and be self-sufficient" is dismissed with a wave about how Maxson didn't found the Brotherhood to be botanists. They'll take one look at a miraculously intact steel foundry like in The Pitt and fuck off after salvaging everything more advanced than a Protectron from the place. Their turbo-autist focus on making sure none of the horrors of the Old World return blinds them to new possibilities. You touched on that a bit in your later post but I just thought I'd expand on that.

Goodneighbor guns people down on suspicion of being a Synth spy who has replaced a prior citizen. Which is what happens in that event in the street. A man is reported as acting funny by his friends for no real reason, and the call comes down to take him out as an infiltrator. Hell, the guards remark how its a shitty job since they've got to bring news of a man's death to his woman, IIRC. Its not like the Institute leaves the people they've replaced alive, after all. One random encounter has a synth deciding to chill out and drink with the man he was supposed to replace instead of killing him and disposing of the body which is what typically happens. That and once someone's dead its clear if they were a synth or not since even the latest generations all have Synth Components inside of them as loot. Hell, Old Man Stockton even knows his actual daughter was killed off by the Institute and keeps the synth replacement around as a means of coping with his grief, so it isn't like synths are perfect imitators of people.

In regards to Old Man Stockton, I just find it hilarious that either intentionally or unintentionally all of the Traders that work for him are Institute informants.

 

[Snekposter]

In regards to Old Man Stockton, I just find it hilarious that either intentionally or unintentionally all of the Traders that work for him are Institute informants.

Yeah, real bit of irony, that. What's really funny is despite that the Institute is completely unaware he's a Railroad agent. Best guess is one or all of those traders managed to figure something out but they've kept quiet out of respect and/or loyalty. That, and its not a good idea to get rid of your boss in a world like Fallout's if there's no replacement handy.

 

[The handsome tard]

Hey guys, Im going to stream Fallout 1 and Im going to use the Fixt mod (ik some might say Et tu is better but I feel like this is an apples oranges situation), its not necessarily my first time playing with this mod but it is the first time playing it with a stream (kind of my marathon that started with Wasteland 1 ).

Im given the options of Purist/Half-Purist/Full/Custom (basically how much you want the changes to be more loyal to the vanilla Fallout experience, including with how mechanics worked, even cut/altered ones from what they were originally intended).

One of those various mechanics is the Super Mutant invasions. Canonically, it only happens to necropolis and thats really it, tho it was meant to also happen to other locations like the Boneyard, The Hub and etc after a certain time has passed as well. The Fixt mod allows for me to restore that mechanic. Now, Im not a purist by any stretch of the imagination, especially since F1 and 2 had a lot on the cutting room floor so more content is always good, but for the sake of a stream and many new comers into that series that may watch my videos, which would be preferable? To keep it vanilla as possible, keep it halfway or just go all at it? Should I keep mutant invasions as it was in vanilla or change that so it could give a sense of urgency to everything and maybe showcast some different endings to the viewers?

Thanks

 

[Radola Gajda]

Man, I'm shitting on FO4 so hard, even though I kinda liked this game. The story though... Is there a mod that completely removes the dialogue from the game and turns it into a hardcore survival, like DUST for FNV?

There is Fallout frost made by same guy as FO dust.
I didnt play it myself so idk how good it is.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

Hey guys, Im going to stream Fallout 1 and Im going to use the Fixt mod (ik some might say Et tu is better but I feel like this is an apples oranges situation), its not necessarily my first time playing with this mod but it is the first time playing it with a stream (kind of my marathon that started with Wasteland 1 ).

Im given the options of Purist/Half-Purist/Full/Custom (basically how much you want the changes to be more loyal to the vanilla Fallout experience, including with how mechanics worked, even cut/altered ones from what they were originally intended).

One of those various mechanics is the Super Mutant invasions. Canonically, it only happens to necropolis and thats really it, tho it was meant to also happen to other locations like the Boneyard, The Hub and etc after a certain time has passed as well. The Fixt mod allows for me to restore that mechanic. Now, Im not a purist by any stretch of the imagination, especially since F1 and 2 had a lot on the cutting room floor so more content is always good, but for the sake of a stream and many new comers into that series that may watch my videos, which would be preferable? To keep it vanilla as possible, keep it halfway or just go all at it? Should I keep mutant invasions as it was in vanilla or change that so it could give a sense of urgency to everything and maybe showcast some different endings to the viewers?

Thanks

Idk, just choice whatever you want and say to your viewers (if you have any, 'cus bots doesn't count) about the choices you made.
I used the mod and i remember having some differences from vanilla, but i basically played twice with a unarmed build. Shit got ridiculous with the slayer perk.

 

[The handsome tard]

if you have any, 'cus bots doesn't count

I WILL LET YOU KNOW THAT I PAID FOR THOSE BOTS AND THEIR COMPLEMENTS. I DESERVE THE THINGS I PAID FOR CUZ THIS IS AMERICA. I DO NOT DESERVE TO BE MOCKED FOR BEING HONEST! *cans.wav*

I used the mod and i remember having some differences from vanilla, but i basically played twice with a unarmed build. Shit got ridiculous with the slayer perk.

Tried that in Wasteland and it legit doesnt payoff, surprisingly. (or rather, realistically).

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

I WILL LET YOU KNOW THAT I PAID FOR THOSE BOTS AND THEIR COMPLEMENTS. I DESERVE THE THINGS I PAID FOR CUZ THIS IS AMERICA. I DO NOT DESERVE TO BE MOCKED FOR BEING HONEST! *cans.wav*


Tried that in Wasteland and it legit doesnt payoff, surprisingly. (or rather, realistically).

I remember grinding with deathclaws using just the spiked knuckles since the power fist cost ammo. Worth every second.
Perk is broken. Any hand-to-hand attack is a guaranted crit. Makes any other crit-based and even the LCK stat worthless in late-game if you only stick to a unarmed set. I remember punching and dealing like 50-100 worth in damage thanks to crits. Fucking nasty.

 

[The handsome tard]

I remember grinding with deathclaws using just the spiked knuckles since the power fist cost ammo. Worth every second.
Perk is broken. Any hand-to-hand attack is a guaranted crit. Makes any other crit-based and even the LCK stat worthless in late-game if you only stick to a unarmed set. I remember punching and dealing like 50-100 worth in damage thanks to crits. Fucking nasty.

I once did a "monk run" of F3 and it was insane punching Enclave soldiers to gory bits.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

I once did a "monk run" of F3 and it was insane punching Enclave soldiers to gory bits.

Unarmed in F3 is fucking subpar compared to FNV. At least Paralyze Palm is a nice trade-off, but not worth with the level 20 cap of original FO3. Now, if you include Broken Steel, that can be more relatable.
At least with TTW is more interesting, getting the perks of New Vegas in DC and Paralyzing Palm is fun.

 

[The handsome tard]

Unarmed in F3 is fucking subpar compared to FNV. At least Paralyze Palm is a nice trade-off, but not worth with the level 20 cap of original FO3. Now, if you include Broken Steel, that can be more relatable.
At least with TTW is more interesting, getting the perks of New Vegas in DC and Paralyzing Palm is fun.

You say that but wiping out Adam's airport with your bare hands was an experience of a lifetime

 

[UselessPieceOfShit]

That's actually the thing about them. They don't. They're so super-obsessed with shit like energy weapons and power armor that Veronica showing up with the Vault 22 data on how to grow super-plants and saying "Hey, we'll be able to feed ourselves and be self-sufficient" is dismissed with a wave about how Maxson didn't found the Brotherhood to be botanists. They'll take one look at a miraculously intact steel foundry like in The Pitt and fuck off after salvaging everything more advanced than a Protectron from the place. Their turbo-autist focus on making sure none of the horrors of the Old World return blinds them to new possibilities. You touched on that a bit in your later post but I just thought I'd expand on that.

That makes me think that they ran the capital wasteland to the ground between FO3 and FO4. Maybe The Enclave was a better choice for Washington. And I'm talking about Autumn's Enclave, Eden is a legit schizo.
The Enclave seems to be self-sufficient, I mean they get their food and water from somewhere, right? They have not only soldiers, but also scientists and civilians. They actually managed to create some new equipment, like their APA. In other words, they created a society. A society where people can live semi-normal lives with their basic needs covered and they actually can create something new along the way. The Enclave seems to be that kind of faction that can create at least some sort of political institution and govern the wasteland with laws, clean water and other shit.
Now, BoS on other hand, exists only as a very insular community with a rigid cast system that barely can sustain itself. Not only that, but they seem to be culturally sterile. Your examples of their attitude towards the outside world show it perfectly. In that light, FO4 can be seen as some sort of the mongol horde for Boston. They just roll in, kill all muties and synths, loot all high-tech shit and fuck off, leaving people living in their dirty ass shacks. I mean, what else they gonna do? Build communities and provide them with security and food? I think they can't be bothered with that.

 

[wopirish]

That makes me think that they ran the capital wasteland to the ground between FO3 and FO4. Maybe The Enclave was a better choice for Washington. And I'm talking about Autumn's Enclave, Eden is a legit schizo.
The Enclave seems to be self-sufficient, I mean they get their food and water from somewhere, right? They have not only soldiers, but also scientists and civilians. They actually managed to create some new equipment, like their APA. In other words, they created a society. A society where people can live semi-normal lives with their basic needs covered and they actually can create something new along the way. The Enclave seems to be that kind of faction that can create at least some sort of political institution and govern the wasteland with laws, clean water and other shit.
Now, BoS on other hand, exists only as a very insular community with a rigid cast system that barely can sustain itself. Not only that, but they seem to be culturally sterile. Your examples of their attitude towards the outside world show it perfectly. In that light, FO4 can be seen as some sort of the mongol horde for Boston. They just roll in, kill all muties and synths, loot all high-tech shit and fuck off, leaving people living in their dirty ass shacks. I mean, what else they gonna do? Build communities and provide them with security and food? I think they can't be bothered with that.

Which kinda leaves me with a wish for the minutemen, you can end the game with minutemen/BOS friendly. Maybe a bit more of a fleshed out tale where the two become more interwoven over the questlines. But again goes back to the root of all FO4's issues. The story is just bland and barely meanders without any real choice or interactions.

 

[DaBigBopper]

The issue in Fallout 4 is that the Brotherhood is the most in the right and the game acts like they aren't. They're arrogant assholes and Maxson has some character, but every other choice is full on retarded. The Railroad is basically investing everything into saving dindu nuffin robots, the Institute subverts society because?, and the Minutemen are fucking useless.
Diamond City was not even a fucking faction, it's simply a place to buy and sell goods. They have no actual control over their place in the world.

Why the fuck does anyone pause and wonder if the group that just spits robots out to kill and replace people is evil? They are. The Railroad should not have been a faction, they are a subfaction at most. They're the people in Diamond City who would possibly spoil an alliance between the City and the Brotherhood in a better game because of misunderstandings on both sides. The Minutemen would have been better if they at least had a trade hub and not some black guy who calls you his boss when you're his bitch.

Fallout 3 might have actually had a better moral issue to fight over. The Enclave had a point that the Capital Wasteland was way too fucking dangerous. A broad spectrum poison to target FEV and radiation mutants might be a mercy killing. Eden is a centuries old computer that isn't aware of the nuance and Autumn is. The Yes Man option should of just letting Autumn take over.
The Brotherhood in 3 had a huge reality check when they realize Supermutants have an infinite supply of Surge and Chichom assets have been fucking up the area for possibly generations. They see a huge problem that forces them to compromise their charter because the world will not bend to their ideals.
Wipe the slate clean or try to save everyone you can.

4 and 76 are retarded. The villains are not people misguided or coming to the wrong conclusions, but they're constantly either stupid or bad people. That only works some of the time, having a dangerous retard can be a fun villain.

The Fallout 4 DLC was even more retarded with the robot cult that grooms kids.