Fallout series

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Lurkerish Kandor said:
I assumed this is how it would be with everything. I haven't watched the show because I figured the chances are it'll just be 'things you recognize' the whole time like Star Wars apparently is now.
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I have mixed feelings on this because on one hand, it helps keep the veneer or authenticity if every bit of set dressing is pulled from the games, but I think the show definitely goes way overboard at times, like with including Novac and the guy saying the nuclear winter line for no real reason. Sometimes I wonder if we would've been better off getting the Interplay era Fallout movie that was an adaptation of the first game sans any retrofuturism elements.

Jace on ice said:
I think the series as we know it is essentially dead.

Bethesda absolutely fucking loves the TV show. The official Bethesda and Fallout X accounts have basically zero tweets about games.

It's all screencaps and shitty jokes from the show and has been for over a year.

Outside of FO76 I don't think Bethesda is interested in Fallout games anymore. They just want to make really shitty TV and sell even shittier merch.
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I can't help but wonder how many H1Bs are on the BGS payroll twiddling their shit stained thumbs and doing nothing right now on the taxpayer's dime. I wish somebody would do something about them.
 
10 years later and I still fail the research project at Cambridge Polymer Labs after completing it successfully? How hard is it to fix that stupid quest to put a checkmark on it after completing it without resorting to console commands? They should be fixing crap like that than hawking CC content or whatever, but they won't.
 
Tor Lugosi said:
Sawyer's whined about how Honest Hearts was too much about white saviors and if he could do it today he'd focus far more on the tribals. So, yeah, it'd fucking suck.
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In our fan communities in eastern europe, whenever HH premiered the reception and consensus was quite the same. We were hoping to get something more akin to revisiting Arroyo rather than going back n forth between two dudes n shooting up savages. If memory serves me right we were hoping more for a story about tribals, not just the mummy dude. Graham's story was cool but besides it there wasn't much else.

Shit I hate how everything in the media discourse became political after 2012. I don't think offering an adventure about hunting geckos and odd campfire tales about outside world would be a bad idea. I liked both Mormon dudes but these tribals would be more fun if the experience with them would go beyond shouting awoooga and running around with a club. I didn't like the native followers but don't even recall why, I guess boring?
 
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Greggs said:
In our fan communities in eastern europe, whenever HH premiered the reception and consensus was quite the same. We were hoping to get something more akin to revisiting Arroyo rather than going back n forth between two dudes n shooting up savages. If memory serves me right we were hoping more for a story about tribals, not just the mummy dude. Graham's story was cool but besides it there wasn't much else.

Shit I hate how everything in the media discourse became political after 2012. I don't thing offering an adventure about hunting geckos and odd campfire tales about outside world would be a bad idea. I liked both Mormon dudes but these tribals would be more fun if the experience with them would go beyond shouting awoooga and running around with a club. I didn't like the native followers but don't even recall why, I guess boring?
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Really? I've always found tribals to be one of the more boring parts of the Fallout lore. Given Sawyer's lack of original ideas (pretty much everything he does is just regurgitating a historical event and/or some religious text), I'd bet a story based around tribals would just be some Trail of Tears crap, something that'd allow him to whine and handwring over oppression and how bad the white man is.

I will agree that HH is kinda boring, though. Having replayed FNV and its DLCs recently it really struck me how shit a game designer Sawyer is compared to Avellone. In his DLCs, Avellone uses gameplay mechanics to reinforce the narrative and themes of the DLC, like the collars, cloud, ghost people, and holograms in Dead Money, whereas Sawyer really did nothing of interest with the gameplay in Honest Hearts.
 
Tor Lugosi said:
In his DLCs, Avellone uses gameplay mechanics to reinforce the narrative and themes of the DLC, like the collars, cloud, ghost people, and holograms in Dead Money, whereas Sawyer really did nothing of interest with the gameplay in Honest Hearts.
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Kind of crazy that he is basically one of the few people to actually bother doing that in the industry, correctly viewing the GAME element of the video game as a core means of relaying the themes of the narrative at hand, rather than just treating video games like they are low-brow movies or tv shows.
 
Star Classic said:
The way I see it, even with all cut content considered, NV's main theme is about being the new frontier and being the finale to the West Coast trilogy, so as the ending it's dealing with the logical point of conclusion: inter-factional conflicts and deciding both who will conquer the frontier and who is pretty much going to lead the first real successful large scale attempt at getting humanity back on it's feet.

Because of the points you mentioned and many more, within the game and without, I always felt that the point of the Legion as a choice is to be the complete opposite of progress, its by far the choice least likely to lead to anything good and the one most likely to fall apart after the events of the game. Whether or not that was intentional by the devs I feel is irrelevant, but I digress. How could you garner any other outcome or meaning of the Legion's ending in the story I don't know, but you'd have to not pay attention.

I'm not saying there is a "right" choice for the ending, you're dealing with broken men in a broken world, no option is the best one. But it should be obvious that the legion is the only real incorrect one. I'm thankful that ultimately the choice is up to (you), as I appreciate when games that let you pick options that are pretty obviously the wrong ones, though sadly that's a dying breed of choice these days.

The only way I could ever see a character actually joining the legion is either as a smooth brain 1 INT barbarian who only believes might=right, or some glowie who's just there to destabilize the region for outside forces to conquer. EDIT: and the obvious incel build is there too, the Mojave has fallen.

TL:DR: The legion is/should be designated as the only wrong option for the fate of the Mojave, intentional or not.
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To me the Legion's viability is rooted in the honesty of intent and the capability of Caesar to carry it out. If you side with House because you believe him capable of putting people in orbit within 50 years, then you understand the principle for why someone might side with the Legion. If you believe Caesar is capable of conquering the NCR and converting the Legion into an actual state after he's done, creating a Wasteland with 1 culture, devoid of internal conflict, secure, and at peace, then that's effectively your reason for siding with them.
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Though in a sense you're basically siding with a guy who is trying to do The Master's whole thing sans super mutants.

House is my choice but how I read the Legion is they're an extreme representation of "the ends justifying the means," and mirror the NCR in the respect they're simply making use of a previous system that once worked. Without Caesar though it basically becomes something akin to a Mongol horde, which I'd argue is closer to being the game's only "wrong" ending.

In theory, assuming all the leaders/factions are honest, every faction has a long-term "good" ending for the Mojave and Wasteland as a whole except Independence and Lanius.

Independence isn't a great ending since you're denying the NCR fresh food, clean water, and energy and unlike House whether a deal can be worked up with anyone to acquire those is viable, the NCR get fucked long-term. The Legion will either be forced to settle or circle the drain since Caesar's failure to take the dam for the 2nd time would do a lot to damage his credibility. Caesar or Lanius, long-term they're screwed and what's left will splinter into tons of raider groups with discipline and likely raise hell in Arizona. Independent Vegas has too many variables (fate of the 3 families is a simple one) but things seem pretty bad for everyone sans Goodsprings outside of the Strip/Freeside.

Lanius will probably bring order with him like Caesar but far more brutal and with no ultimate end, and the Legion would likely persist under him, collecting tribute from conquered lands, before breaking apart with his death or something.
 
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I havent played the game in over a decade, but as far as I recall, during the base gameplay you hear a lot about legion being comprised of different conquered tribes with their odd customs n shit - but u don't see any of it. There was a dog guy at Caesar's camp and just a ton of some references of some tribes existing here n there. To me it would be fun to see how some of them fare and what how they deal with the Wasteland - being scammed by traders or doing day to day stuff different to what we have already seen.

Even things like natives being afraid of the buildings cuz ghosts as presented within HH - it's something different, kinda fresh, just fun, at least to me.
Or stuff like the Legion's dude tribe, showing how they are dealing with all them dogs in Denver while being primitive n illiterate but still surviving, I dunno, the world of Fallout was so diverse when it came to narratives and ideas, if done right cool tribal stories are welcome in my book.

Narratively speaking, Vault Dweller being fed up with the world, fucking off to Oregon was a brilliant choice imo, the fact u finish the first game in a literal walking tank blasting laser guns just to find out that with passing of time your people instead of going amish have returned to monke is so ironic in a fun way.
 
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foreman 89 said:
What is your opinion on this video that shows examples of Fallout NV being "woke"?

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I know the person who made this. He's a cool guy, but I didn't want to shit up the thread he frequents so I'll just post it here. I alluded to something like this when some guy made a "pro-woke" thread (I think it got deleted), but I didn't articulate my points properly. The "satanic panic" back in the day really kicked off the liberal or rebellious movement back during the 80's and 90's. Essentially you had a bunch of silent generation geriatrics going completely schizo because you play music backwards and you get satanic messages or D&D was promoting witchcraft or turning the children evil. Basically it was a group of schizos who were reading too much into media because they felt like society was drifting away from God or this would create another Sodom and Gomorrah type event. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because what that did was it became a sticking point as to why the "right wing" or "christian right" was evil or it was intrusive or whatever people thought about it back in the day. The point is they hated them and wanted them to stop fucking with their entertainment.

Fast forward to the 2008 onward and now we have the "feminist panic" or the "misogyny panic" and that got spearheaded by a lot of feminist organizations that felt like women were being sidelined or reduced to objects or awards in video games. The reality was it was women were used as a motivating factor to exploit men's chivalry tendencies because men naturally want to rescue people (usually women) who are in trouble. But regardless, did it work? Yes for maybe the people who were already liberal minded at the time, but there was a huge group of people who really hated people fucking with their entertainment again. Only this time instead of schizo christians it was narcissistic feminists. It did kind of work, but not in the long term just look at how irritated people are over the wokeshit going in media because they're sick of it. Especially when the classics are so easy to access now with emulation and etc.

The point I'm trying to make is you don't want to make your movement based solely around calls for speculation about a conclusion you've drawn. Speculation is one of the worst frameworks to use when you're basing your movement around an idea that everything is engineered to weaken western civilization. When your mind tries to find evidence that proves your soldified conclusion through media pieces and art that it's solely for the purposes of pumping propaganda, the mind will start to go insane. And people who are looking on the outside in are going to think your movement is schizo and if you gain power and start making movements to start fucking with people's entertainment because you think Bioshock 1 was Ken Levine's attempt to frame the goyim as evil and Andrew Ryan was actually a victim this whole time based on your speculation of what the authorial intent is, people are going to hate you and you're going to shove that pendulum right back over and the cycle is going to continue. Sometimes it's better to just accept things for what they are. It's probably made with a liberal mind, but to say it's engineered by shadowy people behind a curtain is utter insanity.
 
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Greggs said:
I havent played the game in over a decade, but as far as I recall, during the base gameplay you hear a lot about legion being comprised of different conquered tribes with their odd customs n shit - but u don't see any of it.
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This is referenced in Honest Hearts and in the Great Khans quests. That Caesar's absorption of various tribes in the wastes requires immediate assimilation or risk of execution. You aren't supposed to bring your baggage or culture to the Legion. When your tribe is conquered by the Legion it loses its identity forever. It's also heavily implied that this is only done when a tribe becomes enough of a territorial threat that conquering them, and suffering smaller losses, is preferable to allowing them to expand and possibly gather more strength than the Legion can deal with in the long term. Caesar is mostly focused on New Vegas and the Hoover Dam.

When there are groups such as farmers or traders they are allowed to exist independently in Legion controlled areas. There are traders and caravans that comment about the Legion having the safest territories to travel through. Without worrying about raiders or violence. It's also stated by a few Legion characters that this arrangement is more temporary should the Legion control the Hoover Dam and possibly takeover the NCR. In that it would give them the resources to dominate the Mojave in a way not before possible.
 
Dave. said:
I know the person who made this. He's a cool guy, but I didn't want to shit up the thread he frequents so I'll just post it here. I alluded to something like this when some guy made a "pro-woke" thread (I think it got deleted), but I didn't articulate my points properly. The "satanic panic" back in the day really kicked off the liberal or rebellious movement back during the 80's and 90's. Essentially you had a bunch of silent generation geriatrics going completely schizo because you play music backwards and you get satanic messages or D&D was promoting witchcraft or turning the children evil. Basically it was a group of schizos who were reading too much into media because they felt like society was drifting away from God or this would create another Sodom and Gomorrah type event. Whether you agree with that or not is irrelevant because what that did was it became a sticking point as to why the "right wing" or "christian right" was evil or it was intrusive or whatever people thought about it back in the day. The point is they hated them and wanted them to stop fucking with their entertainment.
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Is this yet another time to mention that the leaders of the entertainment censorship movement were not Christian nor were they right-wing?

Joe Lieberman is not a Christian name, for example.

In other words, most of the kids reading gaming magazines and such fell for a narrative that it was the dang Christian fundies, when it was in fact mostly the Democrats. There was reportedly at least one instance where somebody noticed, asked a game journo if they should vote for Republicans instead, and suddenly there was a lot of hemming and hawing.
 
X Prime said:
fell for a narrative that it was the dang Christian fundies
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Except they were, just that it was a bipartisan affair back then so you had dems like Tipper Gore doing it as well. Insane moral panics were perpetuated by both sides of the political spectrum under the auspices of protecting "the children".
 
X Prime said:
Is this yet another time to mention that the leaders of the entertainment censorship movement were not Christian nor were they right-wing?

Joe Lieberman is not a Christian name, for example.

In other words, most of the kids reading gaming magazines and such fell for a narrative that it was the dang Christian fundies, when it was in fact mostly the Democrats. There was reportedly at least one instance where somebody noticed, asked a game journo if they should vote for Republicans instead, and suddenly there was a lot of hemming and hawing.
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This stuff has more pendulum swings.
Satanic panic - conservative (80s to early 90s) (DnD has secret instructions to summon demons, etc)
Muh violent video games - left-wing (early 90s to early 2000s) (Doom/GTA caused Columbine, etc)
Muh sex in video games - conservative (mid 2000s to late 2000s) (Hot coffee, mass effect 1, etc)
Muhsygony/muh racism/muh diversity in video games - left-wing (early 2010s to ????) ("killing blacks in Africa is racist, RE5!", "HH for New Vegas is a white saviour complex!", You're already familiar)

Technically that last is cheating because did go from racism to sexism to representation back to back but it's better to just wrap it all up in the same neo-Marxist package. I find it hard to imagine, outside the tradright larpers complaining about sexual content or excess gore, what the right-wing could possibly complain about in Vidya other than blatant left-wing political messaging. (And I do mean blatant - trans shit, patriarchy, Donald Trump expies, etc)
 
demicolon said:
Sawyer cucked Lowtax.
I'm talking "gay like 2 unicorns blowing each other inside a BDSM club called The Rectum". Cain comes (heyoo!) the closest to that but he thankfully keeps that fetish shit to himself and didn't work on NV.
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Tim Cain is a actual homosexual man who is married wdym he's closest to being a faggot than the closeted fag that is Sawyer cuz his mormon mom might actually die of a heart attack if he comes out.
 
X Prime said:
Is it really a pendulum swing if dumbasses never mention any but the rightoids supposedly almost initating a Gamercaust?
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Then those people are simply wrong and their assertion doesn't really survive scrutiny. He also did not choose the video game violence stuff, which is what you brought up. The Satanic Panic is a more relevant example because it did similar damage to the side being loud with it and is equally as intense and influential. I think the pendulum swing can be definitively pinpointed but things feel like they're winding down and I think late 2026 or 2027 will be the year the Left quietly tries to pretend they weren't being insane schizos for 15 years. They're already trying to rebrand themselves online.

DnD being a covert means to spread satanism amongst the youth does not survive a fight with reality, and made the detractors look like insane retards. Similarly, trans people do not exist in observable reality because you need to accept the premise that gender exists separately from birth sex, which people will humour but it won't override how they truly feel and what they can observe with their own eyes.
 
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