Fallout series

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Ladies, both are retarded.

My point exactly. New Vegas is better-written than Flalout 4, but both stories have unrealistic elements.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

Why would he care? He's not the one getting charged as a criminal or having mercenary teams go after him.

Because the job was set-up through him and it getting fucked would reflect poorly on him. This is like asking why your boss would care if you fucked up a job.

They might have, but the last time Bethesda added timed quests in a game, it was a mess. So yes, you can faff about and do all the DLCs before even getting close to the vicinity of New Vegas, even though that's unrealistic as all hell. I mean, shit, that's what I did. By the time I got to New Vegas, I had DLC weapons up the ass and enough money to just waltz right into the front door. But in my roleplaying, I justify that by saying that the original Courier 6 already got stung to death by cazadores, and the person Benny shot in the face was someone whom Courier 6 passed his package on to before he died from cazador poison.

Who said anything about a timed quest? My point was that if the developers really wanted to sell the idea that your life was forfeit if you didn't deliver the package then they had ample opportunity to do so beyond a few lines at the end of a note that reads like it's a boilerplate clause attached to any express contract.

Not when people with money are looking for your ass. It's rather easy for say, Caesar's Legion or the NCR to find you if you cross them. Shit, even the Brotherhood, who are hiding in the bunker with their thumbs up their asses, can still find Veronica and kill her co-workers if she joins the Followers.

We're not talking about gigantic factions that have people all throughout the wasteland. We're talking about one person who already knows you don't have the chip because you got shot in the head and left for dead.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Because the job was set-up through him and it getting fucked would reflect poorly on him. This is like asking why your boss would care if you fucked up a job.

The note doesn't say that he'll get punished. It says that YOU will get punished. So that absolves him of any worry. He's not the one in trouble, YOU ARE.

Who said anything about a timed quest? My point was that if the developers really wanted to sell the idea that your life was forfeit if you didn't deliver the package then they had ample opportunity to do so beyond a few lines at the end of a note that reads like it's a boilerplate clause attached to any express contract.

It was no boilerplate clause; it was a threat. A legal threat. In a world where people charged as criminals are shot. And they're saying that if you fail, mercs will come after you. Now, whether or not you have the chip doesn't matter to them, you're still a criminal fuck-up, and you get a bullet through the skull. Again.

But of course, that doesn't happen, because timed quests just don't work with games like these; Bethesda knew that best when they made the mistake of introducing timed quests in Elder Scrolls and it wound up being a mess, and Obsidian in 2010 would obviously not make that same mistake.

We're not talking about gigantic factions that have people all throughout the wasteland. We're talking about one person who already knows you don't have the chip because you got shot in the head and left for dead.

And that's an even bigger mystery. Why they even wait for you, I can't figure out why. Victor already knows that Benny took the chip; he should have been arrested by the Securitrons by now. Why they wait for some dumb mailman, I can't figure out why. Maybe Victor and House wanted it to be a symbol of poetic justice. But given how House is so desperate to get the chip, that is rather unlikely.

 

[BiggerChungus]

Yes, I did. And if you check your notes, you find this:

"You are an authorized agent of the Mojave Express Package until delivery is complete and payment has been processed, contractually obligated to complete this transaction and materially responsible for any malfeasance or loss. Failure to deliver the proper recipient may result in forfeiture of your advance and bonus, criminal charges, and/or pursuit by mercenary reclamation teams. The Mojave Express is not responsible for any injury or loss of life you experience as a result of said reclamation efforts."
-Mojave Express Delivery Order

Which means that the Courier has even less of an excuse to faff around as the Sole Survivor. The latter won't be charged as a criminal if they fail to find their son.

I'm pretty sure you're just shitposting at this point. I don't get how you could seriously think that the response to getting mugged, shot, and put into a coma would be "go find that chip right now courier or we're sending every merc in the Mojave after you." That'd be some truly stupidly shitty writing, and you'd think that if it were true that Johnson Nash would tell you about it when you talk to him. He doesn't seem to think you losing the package because you got robbed is urgent at all. Your regional boss never says "By the way, get that package back or we'll kill you."

The note doesn't say that he'll get punished. It says that YOU will get punished. So that absolves him of any worry. He's not the one in trouble, YOU ARE.

Because as we all know if a postal worker gets shot and has his truck stolen, the government's gonna blame it on him and not the guy who shot and robbed him. Like I said, you're either shitposting or desperate to the point of delusion to defend FO4's narrative dissonance.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

The note doesn't say that he'll get punished. It says that YOU will get punished. So that absolves him of any worry. He's not the one in trouble, YOU ARE.

I didn't say he would get punished. I said it would reflect poorly on him. Having someone he hired fail a job would, in fact, reflect poorly on him.

It was no boilerplate clause; it was a threat.

It mentions no specifics and is written in generalities, so, yes, I'd say it's very likely boilerplate. Something that's likely attached to every express contract to motivate the courier to deliver the item and not renege on the contract. But, again, my point is that if the developers really wanted to sell the idea that you're incredibly fucked if you don't deliver the package then they had ample opportunity to do so beyond the contract.

Now, whether or not you have the chip doesn't matter to them, you're still a criminal fuck-up, and you get a bullet through the skull. Again.

Why wouldn't it matter? The one sending the mercs after you is the person who didn't get their package, not the Mojave Express. If they know that wasting more caps on you isn't going to get them their item, why bother?

 

[BiggerChungus]

The letter is an incentive because it says that you can be branded a criminal if you fail to finish this delivery. And the mercs have the incentive that they're paid to go after anyone who fails to uphold their contract. In New Vegas, being charged as a criminal ends with a bullet to the head. So if you failed to deliver it, it doesn't matter if you have the package or not, you're a filthy criminal, and you get a bullet to the head. In the lore spelled out by the loading screens, even the NCR who are portrayed as soft and weak execute criminals on sight after that whole Powder Gangers fiasco. So why would mercenary reclamation teams act otherwise?

The crippling level to which you completely misunderstand New Vegas's story and setting really makes me think you've never played it. You'd have to be either shitposting, extremely willfully ignorant, or have some kind of genuine cognitive problem to look at a letter that says "if you steal the package you're trying to deliver, we'll hunt you down and reclaim it" and then say "oh, that means if the package is stolen from you they'll hunt you down and kill you on sight", then aggressively defend said wrong assumption despite everything about it being dumb and illogical.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I didn't say he would get punished. I said it would reflect poorly on him. Having someone he hired fail a job would, in fact, reflect poorly on him.

No it wouldn't. These couriers, as Nash explained come and go at will.

It mentions no specifics and is written in generalities, so, yes, I'd say it's very likely boilerplate. Something that's likely attached to every express contract to motivate the courier to deliver the item and not renege on the contract.

No it isn't. Again, the note mentions criminal charges-in a world where that usually meant a bullet to the head. They were very specific on what will happen to you if you failed, or more likely, if you chose to break off and not complete the task.

But, again, my point is that if the developers really wanted to sell the idea that you're incredibly fucked if you don't deliver the package then they had ample opportunity to do so beyond the contract.

They could have done it by putting it on a timer and having mercs come after you once the time limit passed, but timed quests on open-world games wound up being a mess in one of the Elder Scrolls games, so they didn't do that here.

I mean shit, if you wanna go that route, keeping Caesar waiting is a VERY BAD IDEA. Not only does he have an extensive spy network that knows what you're up to and where you are, but Caesar is a very impatient and cruel man. Putting off his quests for say, 70 days, would most likely end with him declaring you an enemy of the Legion and sending hit squads after you.

Why wouldn't it matter? The one sending the mercs after you is the person who didn't get their package, not the Mojave Express. If they know that wasting more caps on you isn't going to get them their item, why bother?

The Mojave Express can just as easily shift blame on to the courier, which the contract does.

I'm pretty sure you're just shitposting at this point. I don't get how you could seriously think that the response to getting mugged, shot, and put into a coma would be "go find that chip right now courier or we're sending every merc in the Mojave after you." That'd be some truly stupidly shitty writing, and you'd think that if it were true that Johnson Nash would tell you about it when you talk to him. He doesn't seem to think you losing the package because you got robbed is urgent at all. Your regional boss never says "By the way, get that package back or we'll kill you."

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THEY WROTE. That is EXACTLY what the note on your person says. Criminal charges-in a world where even the so-called good guys in the NCR respond to criminals with a bullet to the head. You're quite literally just ignoring the lore to prove your point.

"You are an authorized agent of the Mojave Express Package until delivery is complete and payment has been processed, contractually obligated to complete this transaction and materially responsible for any malfeasance or loss. Failure to deliver the proper recipient may result in forfeiture of your advance and bonus, criminal charges, and/or pursuit by mercenary reclamation teams. The Mojave Express is not responsible for any injury or loss of life you experience as a result of said reclamation efforts."
-Mojave Express Delivery Order

Because as we all know if a postal worker gets shot and has his truck stolen, the government's gonna blame it on him and not the guy who shot and robbed him. Like I said, you're either shitposting or desperate to the point of delusion to defend FO4's narrative dissonance.

The postal service of today doesn't work the same way the courier services in Fallout do. The contract, as it is stated by the texts, puts full responsibility and blame on the mailman, and only the mailman. Not the service they work for. Again, you ignore the lore just to make a point.

The crippling level to which you completely misunderstand New Vegas's story and setting really makes me think you've never played it. You'd have to be either shitposting, extremely willfully ignorant, or have some kind of genuine cognitive problem to look at a letter that says "if you steal the package you're trying to deliver, we'll hunt you down and reclaim it" and say "oh, that means if the package is stolen from you they'll hunt you down and kill you on sight", then aggressively defend said wrong assumption despite everything about it being dumb and illogical.

Bitch, New Vegas was my first Fallout game. And yes, that letter, along with a load screen that says that criminals are dealt with through lethal force, was one of the first things I noticed when I first played it. Which was why on my first playthrough I hurried my way to Vegas to get that chip, before playing it again and deciding to get all the DLCs done before going to Vegas on my second RP playthrough, after I realized that Obsidian didn't put in anything to back up that letter, and that gameplay-wise, it was an empty threat. But lore-wise, it isn't. Just as how in Fallout 4, finding your son isn't really a top priority gameplay-wise, but lore-wise, it is.

Again, you ignore what Obsidian put there to just shit on Bethesda. Which is absolutely pathetic.

 

[BiggerChungus]

"You are an authorized agent of the Mojave Express Package until delivery is complete and payment has been processed, contractually obligated to complete this transaction and materially responsible for any malfeasance or loss. Failure to deliver the proper recipient may result in forfeiture of your advance and bonus, criminal charges, and/or pursuit by mercenary reclamation teams. The Mojave Express is not responsible for any injury or loss of life you experience as a result of said reclamation efforts."
-Mojave Express Delivery Order

Being held materially responsible for a package is one thing. It can be assumed that if you don't deliver the package its delivery fee will probably get billed to you, sure. Nothing at all implies you're going to be hunted down and executed for losing it though. Mercenary reclamation teams may be sent if you run off with it or refuse to deliver it, but you can't reclaim something you lost. They'd go after whoever stole it, not you. That's why it's a reclamation team. If something can't be reclaimed, you think they'd hire mercenaries to find you and murder you because somebody robbed you? For what reason? That's clown world logic, which ironically might work in FO4 where you have Prohibition gangsters and detectives running around for no real reason, but as has been said, 4 is severely disconnected from the rest of Fallout in its writing. It doesn't make sense any which way you look at it, and "but the wasteland's harsh" doesn't justify it at all.

You talk about "ignoring lore" when two major plot points in the game feature meticulously collecting evidence to get two trading companies criminally charged, and in one case potentially having a guy arrested and tried rather than killed. The NCR doesn't care too much about justice in the Mojave, right. That doesn't mean they shoot every criminal they see on sight, it means they don't get involved. You wouldn't even be a criminal at that point to begin with.

As I said, shitposting, delusionally desperate, or you have something genuinely wrong with you.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Being held materially responsible for a package is one thing. It can be assumed that if you don't deliver the package its delivery fee will probably get billed to you, sure. Nothing at all implies you're going to be hunted down and executed for losing it though. Mercenary reclamation teams may be sent if you run off with it or refuse to deliver it, but you can't reclaim something you lost. They'd go after whoever stole it, not you. You talk about "ignoring lore" when two major plot points in the game feature meticulously collecting evidence to get two trading companies criminally charged, and in one case potentially having a guy arrested and tried rather than killed. The NCR doesn't care too much about justice in the Mojave, right. That doesn't mean they shoot every criminal they see on sight, it means they don't get involved. You wouldn't even be a criminal at that point to begin with.

As I said, shitposting, delusionally desperate, or you have something genuinely wrong with you.

The note mentioned criminal charges. And in New Vegas, if you were reading the loading screens and the info they come with, criminal charges often end with a bullet to the head. Again, you ignore the lore just to bitch at Bethesda.

"The NCR's military doesn't like being in the role of "peace-keeper". Crimes across the Mojave are typically punished by death."
-New Vegas Loading Screen

If even the NCR deals with criminals at gunpoint, do you really think New Vegas would be any different? The only other faction who deals differently with criminals is the Legion, and that's because they keep the options of slavery, crucifixion, and deathmatch gladiatorial games open.

 

[Vault Boy]

Sure hope Microsoft does something to get new Fallout games done faster than the 2030s, if only so you guys can have something new to bitch at each other about. The idea that we could have about 8 more years of squabbling over games from 2010 and 2015 makes me sad. I don't even know if that TV show is going to be... "interesting" enough to give us new material to bitch about (unless it pulls some truly heinous shit like that Halo TV show did).

 

[BiggerChungus]

The note mentioned criminal charges. And in New Vegas, if you were reading the loading screens and the info they come with, criminal charges often end with a bullet to the head. Again, you ignore the lore just to bitch at Bethesda.

"If you fail to deliver the package, you may face consequences like forfeiture of payment or bonus, criminal charges, or reclamation."
"Ahh, so that means if the package is stolen from you mercenaries are going to find you and shoot you in the head! See? New Vegas is dumb too!"
Bethesdrones never change.

 

[Tor Lugosi]

No it wouldn't. These couriers, as Nash explained come and go at will.

Who cares if they come and go? It would still be a failed delivery. If you rack up enough failed delivers nobody is going to pay you to deliver something.

No it isn't.

And your argument is... what, exactly? 'nuh uh' isn't exactly an argument.

They could have done it by putting it on a timer and having mercs come after you once the time limit passed, but timed quests on open-world games wound up being a mess in one of the Elder Scrolls games, so they didn't do that here.

I mean shit, if you wanna go that route, keeping Caesar waiting is a VERY BAD IDEA. Not only does he have an extensive spy network that knows what you're up to and where you are, but Caesar is a very impatient and cruel man. Putting off his quests for say, 70 days, would most likely end with him declaring you an enemy of the Legion and sending hit squads after you.

But... the game already does this with both the Legion and NCR. If you piss them off enough they send a hit squad after you. It operates on a timer that resets every few days and then another group comes after you until either finish the game or improve your reputation with them.

The Mojave Express can just as easily shift blame on to the courier, which the contract does.

This... doesn't apply to my point at all.

The process that the threat is referring to specifically says "reclamation efforts" -- i.e., getting back what was lost or stolen. If the person who ordered the delivery already knows you don't have it and that sending mercs or pressing criminal charges won't change that fact, why would they waste more caps or time on it?

Regardless, this is an autistic waste of time. This will be my last reply on this. I might most post more impression about my FO4 replay later.

 

[Mega Black]

The crippling level to which you completely misunderstand New Vegas's story and setting really makes me think you've never played it. You'd have to be either shitposting, extremely willfully ignorant, or have some kind of genuine cognitive problem to look at a letter that says "if you steal the package you're trying to deliver, we'll hunt you down and reclaim it" and then say "oh, that means if the package is stolen from you they'll hunt you down and kill you on sight", then aggressively defend said wrong assumption despite everything about it being dumb and illogical.

He does this pretty often. The guy gets really worked up barking at phantoms over games he hasn't played.

recipient MAY result

Reading comprehension wasn't stressed much in school for you, was it?

That's why it's a reclamation team. If something can't be reclaimed, you think they'd hire mercenaries to find you and murder you because somebody robbed you? For what reason?

No you see the mercs are going to show up and shoot you in the head because my fanfiction conclusion to this hypothetical interaction works better for my argument. Disregard that they'd much more likely show up, you'd say you don't have it and then tell them 'a guy in a checkered suit shot me, took it, and then went to Vegas' and they'd go there to do what's on their job description.

criminal charges often end with a bullet to the head

Except when they don't end with a bullet to the head, like all those people who were arrested and sent to the NCR correctional facility, thus showing that they do not, in fact, execute everyone on sight.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Sure hope Microsoft does something to get new Fallout games done faster than the 2030s, if only so you guys can have something new to bitch at each other about. The idea that we could have about 8 more years of squabbling over games from 2010 and 2015 makes me sad. I don't even know if that TV show is going to be... "interesting" enough to give us new material to bitch about (unless it pulls some truly heinous shit like that Halo TV show did).

I don't think they'll be making any new games for the time being. Their Fallout team is still probably trying to fix 76, and Bethesda is focusing on Starfield. Maybe Microsoft can ask Obsidian to make one for them, but given Nu-Obsidian's work, it won't end well. It'll probably just have dumb corporate villains a la Outer Worlds.

"If you fail to deliver the package, you may face consequences like forfeiture of payment or bonus, criminal charges, or reclamation."
"Ahh, so that means if the package is stolen from you mercenaries are going to find you and shoot you in the head! See? New Vegas is dumb too!"
Bethesdrones never change.

I didn't say New Vegas is dumb, you dipshit. It's just that Obsidian never placed in a timed quest that would realistically force you to get the chip as fast as you can, because the last time Bethesda did that, it was a mess.

Who cares if they come and go? It would still be a failed delivery. If you rack up enough failed delivers nobody is going to pay you to deliver something.

Again, the contract puts the full blame on the courier, not the service.

But... the game already does this with both the Legion and NCR. If you piss them off enough they send a hit squad after you. It operates on a timer that resets every few days and then another group comes after you until either finish the game or improve your reputation with them.

That's only if you choose to be their enemy. But realistically, even if you are in the Legion, putting off Caesar's quest for too long would end with him losing his patience and demanding your head on a pike. But that never happens, because the last time Bethesda tried timed quests, it was a mess.

Except when they don't end with a bullet to the head, like all those people who were arrested and sent to the NCR correctional facility, thus showing that they do not, in fact, execute everyone on sight.

And how did that work out, exactly? Oh, that's right, they rebelled. Hence why the loading screens say the NCR deals with criminals through lethal force.

Reading comprehension wasn't stressed much in school for you, was it?

Apparently it wasn't for you. That still means that you may get charged as a criminal-which means death, if the loading screens say it correctly.

He does this pretty often. The guy gets really worked up barking at phantoms over games he hasn't played.

"WAAAH! HE SAID MEAN THINGS ABOUT NEW VEGAS! TIME TO SAY THAT HE'S NEVER PLAYED IT!"

Some things never change, do they? Keep crying, fanboy.

And yes, I do mean fanboy, because I've never seen this kind of entitled behavior among the Bethesda fans. Do I love New Vegas? Yes. Does it have flaws? Yes. Does it share some flaws with Fallout 4? Yes. Do I still love it regardless? Yes. But you people won't settle for anything other than blind worship, don't you?

Also, without Bethesda and its Fallout 3, New Vegas would have never existed to begin with. Leaving Fallout:BoS as the last capstone to the Fallout Franchise. And I will never tire of reminding you fanboys of that. Quite literally, the best Fallout game only exists because Bethesda wanted a cash-grab title after the success of Fallout 3. Without Bethesda's Fallout 3, you wouldn't have New Vegas at all. Maybe you'd get Fallout: Van Buren, but it would likely have been a forgotten mess that would have been laughed off as a relic of a bygone age.

 

[Mega Black]

I've never seen this kind of entitled behavior among the Bethesda fans.

"The Bethestard cries out as he strikes you."

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

"The Bethestard cries out as he strikes you."

Those are tears of laughter, not sadness.

 

[BiggerChungus]

And yes, I do mean fanboy

Actual Bethesdrone.

 

[Mysterious Autist XX]

This entire argument has been autistic even for Fallout standards

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

This entire argument has been autistic even for Fallout standards

Can you expect anything less from Fallout fans?

Actual Bethesdrone.

So, offering an honest critique for some of New Vegas' minor flaws and showing how it shares some flaws with Fallout 4 makes me a Bethesdrone?

Fine, then. I'll wear that badge with pride.

 

[BiggerChungus]

So, offering an honest critique for some of New Vegas' minor flaws and showing how it shares some flaws with Fallout 4 makes me a Bethesdrone?

Criticizing New Vegas's flaws by making up something that isn't in the game and using that to pretend it's on par with 4 is what makes you a Bethesdrone.