Fallout series

[Smashed & Slamed]

Worst quest of the game you can easily skip for no major XP loss. If you want to criticize the game, I suggest actually playing it instead of parroting some youtuber or /v/ posts.
I should also point out that her writer was actually switched partway around development. After the first planet, where she is best written and most consistent, she was taken over by someone else and it shows. It looks like the development of this game was a mess, ironic considering that Obsidian specifically went with a smaller scale project to avoid this problem.

I've played the game myself. And it's the worst rpg I've ever played and one of the worst games I ever completed.
The combat is bad. The story is retarded. None of the characters are likeable. Your companions especially so. The quests are mostly fetch quests and boring dungeons. There is no exploration, loot is almost never unique and when it is it's pointless with no new approaches to do quests or new quests to be found. The environments look straight out of an MMO to how formulaic and lifeless they feel. There are hardly any real RPG mechanics or deviations. You just have some dogshit skill checks in some speech options. The character building it's self is piss easy and boring. I passed every check without looking up a guide. And there are no cool perks or build options that change how the game works.
I don't know how anyone can say the Outer Wilds is any good. I didn't spend any money on it and I feel ripped of. The game also is very clearly just stealing shit from pop culture as well as trying and failing to copy Prey (2016)'s homework.

 

[30+GameOvers]

I've played the game myself. And it's the worst rpg I've ever played and one of the worst games I ever completed.
The combat is bad. The story is retarded. None of the characters are likeable. Your companions especially so. The quests are mostly fetch quests and boring dungeons. There is no exploration, loot is almost never unique and when it is it's pointless with no new approaches to do quests or new quests to be found. The environments look straight out of an MMO to how formulaic and lifeless they feel. There are hardly any real RPG mechanics or deviations. You just have some dogshit skill checks in some speech options. The character building it's self is piss easy and boring. I passed every check without looking up a guide. And there are no cool perks or build options that change how the game works.
I don't know how anyone can say the Outer Wilds is any good. I didn't spend any money on it and I feel ripped of. The game also is very clearly just stealing shit from pop culture as well as trying and failing to copy Prey (2016)'s homework.

Fair enough, but it is still better than Starfield and Fallout 76, that was my original point. Tim Cain reigns supreme once again!
And for the record, I didn't pay a single cent for this game either. Best purchase I've made in 2019!

 

[Illuminati Order Official]

Worst quest of the game you can easily skip for no major XP loss. If you want to criticize the game, I suggest actually playing it instead of parroting some youtuber or /v/ posts.

My biggest problem with Outer Worlds was that it doesn't take itself seriously.

 

[Coldsteel the Hedgehog]

Outer Worlds is unironically dogshit, and anyone who thinks it's better than any of the Bethesda titles has been sucking Obsidian cock so long they can't tell up from down. I'd genuinely rather play Starfield tbh, the writing in both is bad but at least Starfield lets me hoard items like a gremlin and make a cool ship.

 

[30+GameOvers]

My biggest problem with Outer Worlds was that it doesn't take itself seriously.

That is actually one of my biggest problems with it. This is why Peril of Gorgon is the best piece of content in my opinion, as that is one of the only times the game doesn't joke around or try to be silly and comes out better for it. PoG very much blows out Shattered Space out of the water, which was the original point, it also fixes the problem of inconsistent writing and atmosphere.
I believe I said as much in the Starfield thread, but SS needed to be AT LEAST as good as PoG to gather some goodwill around it and try to salvage some sort of playerbase. It didn't. Even at their worst, Obsidian is still better than Bethesda.

 

[Illuminati Order Official]

That is actually one of my biggest problems with it. This is why Peril of Gorgon is the best piece of content in my opinion, as that is one of the only times the game doesn't joke around or try to be silly and comes out better for it.

If only the proportions were reversed. I love Old World Blues which is a silly piece of content added to otherwise serious story. In case of Outer Worlds it's a piece of serious storytelling added to otherwise silly story and it doesn't work nearly as well as in case of NV and OWB.

 

[30+GameOvers]

If only the proportions were reversed. I love Old World Blues which is a silly piece of content added to otherwise serious story. In case of Outer Worlds it's a piece of serious storytelling added to otherwise silly story and it doesn't work nearly as well as in case of NV and OWB.

In both cases, I liked the serious moments over the silly ones, and PoG has much more of those compared to OWB. It's a shame they only got the atmosphere right for one DLC, but it does show that someone out there at Obsidian is capable of getting it done. I can assume the mess we got with base game OW was due to already mentioned mess of a development and not having a good grasp at what they wanted the game's world and themes to be.
Even the second DLC, Murder on Eridanos, got the humor and atmosphere right despite being more in-tone with the base game. I would consider both to be at about the same level as a NV DLC in levels of quality, definitely better than Shattered Space and the slop that Bethesda put out for Fallout 76(Yes, even Wastelanders. This is how the game should have been on day one, and even then at least not having any NPCs made it unique in that regard and worked with the story. All of that is ruined and we essentially have a newer, shittier game with some very mid NPC interactions and quests).

 

[Verdun_Salient]

I miss Adam Adamowicz. He gave Fallout 3 a lot of soul

 

[Bob Barbas]

So while reading comments on random Fallout videos including New Vegas I discover a disturbing amount of players who just go around killing everyone in sight and missing out on pretty much all of the story. To give one example one guy shot the guy that runs towards you at the start of Honest Hearts and basically everyone else he ran into too and was done with the DLC in like 10 minutes.

Maybe I'm looking too deep into this but my immediate thought was "Are these the players Bethesda is trying to appeal to these days? Is that why the story is so shit in the new games because the average normie just doesn't give a fuck and just wants to shoot people?" I'm probably reaching with this one but it would definitely explain a lot. Would also explain how there are people who exist that genuinely think Fallout 4 has a better story than fucking New Vegas. (Yes, I genuinely saw one person unironically declare this.)

 

[Smashed & Slamed]

To give one example one guy shot the guy that runs towards you at the start of Honest Hearts and basically everyone else he ran into too and was done with the DLC in like 10 minutes.

To be fair how can you tell one tribal from another at range.

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

To be fair how can you tell one tribal from another at range.

Well, at least that tribal doesn't shoot you inmediately after killing stealthly.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

Both also will fucking brutally kick your ass even with a good build at the start of the game lmfao.

It took me five hours to even feel competent for about 2 minutes.

 

[30+GameOvers]

So while reading comments on random Fallout videos including New Vegas I discover a disturbing amount of players who just go around killing everyone in sight and missing out on pretty much all of the story. To give one example one guy shot the guy that runs towards you at the start of Honest Hearts and basically everyone else he ran into too and was done with the DLC in like 10 minutes.

Bethesda players. I'm not even kidding, these dumb retards have been conditioned to treat every random NPC not involved with the main quest as some sort of random bandit(and besides, what are they gonna do, read dialogue? Do quests with actual nuance? What is this nerd shit, I just want to kill people!)
When normalcattle complains about isometric Fallout games being "too hard", this is why. If they complain that "graphics are bad" then they're just zoomies

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

To give one example one guy shot the guy that runs towards you at the start of Honest Hearts and basically everyone else he ran into too and was done with the DLC in like 10 minutes.

Back when I was a forever DM, most of the people I ever hosted for (which weren't many but they were usually completely different people every campaign) were complete and utter murder hobos. I'm 100% for complete freedom of choice but expect the vast majority of people to just kill everyone in their way or be complete moralfags with a roulette wheel as their compass. They're not like that in real life but usually the best people I've met are murderhobos, complete opposite of their actual person. Combine that with normies really not caring about actually playing the story and a lot of people who played NV did so after they played Fo3 which was mostly for brainlet who don't like narratives and just want to go bang bang. Give those people the idea that they can shoot and kill everyone in the game expect very very few exceptions and don't be surprised when the Wasteland is even more so by the time they're done. The guy you mentioned sounds exactly what I have in mind, though to be fair your caravan is ambushed and killed so I'm not surprised he immediately assumed the worst.

 

[Bob Barbas]

Bethesda players. I'm not even kidding, these dumb retards have been conditioned to treat every random NPC not involved with the main quest as some sort of random bandit(and besides, what are they gonna do, read dialogue? Do quests with actual nuance? What is this nerd shit, I just want to kill people!)
When normalcattle complains about isometric Fallout games being "too hard", this is why. If they complain that "graphics are bad" then they're just zoomies

Give those people the idea that they can shoot and kill everyone in the game expect very very few exceptions and don't be surprised when the Wasteland is even more so by the time they're done.

Can't lie, it explains why they overuse essential NPCs so often. Literally have to hold their retarded hand.
The fact you can kill pretty much anyone in New Vegas barring children and Yes Man is both a blessing and a curse. But I guess that's why New Vegas was so good in the first place, they didn't expect their players to be bumbling retards.

Unrelated to that discussion TTW recently updated to 3.3.3. so while I wait for all the good mods to be updated for the new version I decided to try out some FNV only mods I never had before, like the alternate start mod for NV. I always enjoyed those kinds of mods for games like Oblivion and Skyrim. Being able to completely ignore the main story and basically do whatever you want and roleplay whoever you want to be is a fun one.
Though it does have some caveats, for instance the mod page mentions Ulysses will still refer to you as the Courier whether or not you ever started the main quest. Honestly, I'm fine with that. Hell I'd say it's downright hilarious because it makes Ulysses out to be even more of a schizo than he already is. Not only is he holding a retardedly nonsensical grudge but he's got the wrong fucking guy!
I can't wait to get to Lonesome Road and be like "Sir, I am but a humble farmer and have absolutely no fucking idea who you are."

 

[Coldsteel the Hedgehog]

"I love NV for being such an open ended game that let's you make decisions, you can complete the game in dozens of way and it doesn't railroad you"

"Why do people play the game in the way I don't like?"

Think you're circlejerking here a bit, mate. People do this shit in every game you can kill NPCs because being able to kill literally everyone and still complete it is novel and fun. Especially since everyone in NV is some flavor of asshole, is it really that surprising people take the caps and guns and just go Yes Man? Why is it "disturbing" that people engage with a piece of media in a way the devs clearly intended to be possible?

 

[Bob Barbas]

"I love NV for being such an open ended game that let's you make decisions, you can complete the game in dozens of way and it doesn't railroad you"

"Why do people play the game in the way I don't like?"

Think you're circlejerking here a bit, mate. People do this shit in every game you can kill NPCs because being able to kill literally everyone and still complete it is novel and fun. Especially since everyone in NV is some flavor of asshole, is it really that surprising people take the caps and guns and just go Yes Man? Why is it "disturbing" that people engage with a piece of media in a way the devs clearly intended to be possible?

I said I was probably reaching for a reason.

 

[Tri-Tachyon'sClown]

Can't lie, it explains why they overuse essential NPCs so often. Literally have to hold their retarded hand.

Exactly, I complain about essential NPCs being a crutch for poor writing and coding because "if certain NPCs are dead the whole game is softlocked and we're too lazy to add failsafe quests in case they do kill one of these people (like in Morrowind if you kill Vivec too early)." However, I complain because I'm not a murderhobo and have at least two brain cells to rub together, I.E. not the intended audience of Bethestards who can't function if giving too much freedom. I would say it's like choice paralysis but it's more akin to having 100 different items on a menu (yes I'm burger of course I'm using food as an analogy) and picking the same exact food item made in the exact same way and then getting upset when people tell you to pick something else. "Let me play how I want to play, if I want to play a stealth archer in every single game that lets me I will play a stealth archer." Once again it's the normies that ruin everything for everyone. I'm not against people for wanting to play how they want to play but when they're so retarded its affecting an entire industry I'll definitely comment on it.

 

[Samuel Fuller]

So while reading comments on random Fallout videos including New Vegas I discover a disturbing amount of players who just go around killing everyone in sight and missing out on pretty much all of the story. To give one example one guy shot the guy that runs towards you at the start of Honest Hearts and basically everyone else he ran into too and was done with the DLC in like 10 minutes.

Maybe I'm looking too deep into this but my immediate thought was "Are these the players Bethesda is trying to appeal to these days? Is that why the story is so shit in the new games because the average normie just doesn't give a fuck and just wants to shoot people?" I'm probably reaching with this one but it would definitely explain a lot. Would also explain how there are people who exist that genuinely think Fallout 4 has a better story than fucking New Vegas. (Yes, I genuinely saw one person unironically declare this.)

Counterpoint: Any game that lets me shoot Felicia Day in the face is worth playing just for that.

 

[Krayt Dragon]

"Let me play how I want to play, if I want to play a stealth archer in every single game that lets me I will play a stealth archer." Once again it's the normies that ruin everything for everyone. I'm not against people for wanting to play how they want to play but when they're so retarded its affecting an entire industry I'll definitely comment on it.

I think you're casting blame in the wrong direction. Why is it the gamers fault for being "too retarded" exactly? Who cares how retardedly people play their single player games?
What is actually affecting the industry here? The gamers playing the open world free form RPG how they want to? Or Bethesda changing shit for no good reason and everyone else following suit?

As far as I can tell, the essential NPC thing stemmed from Bethesda writers being upset that people were ignoring the story and killing characters and being a murderhobo. It was ego (and being lazy about writing a story that can withstand player choice) on the part of Bethesda that led to this change, not gamers "ruining it for everyone". Some fucking niggercattle gamer plays New Vegas and doesn't look at anything and doesn't read anything and just walks around, killing everyone and everything... who fucking cares? They probably had fun. They also probably had no capacity to pay attention to the story to begin with. Would have been pearls cast before swines anyways.

I don't think it should surprise anyone that people do this in Fallout games and RPGs in general... even if you're not a murderhobo in New Vegas, don't tell me you have never gotten frustrated with an NPC, quicksaved, shot him in the face and then quickloaded.

So yes, I will play how I want to play within the ruleset I am provided, including on your tabletop RPG. I will look for exploits, I will think about combinations of skills and equipments and strategies that you did not consider, because finding something that trips up the DM is really, really fun! By all means, adapt to my play style. Set a trap for me, let me wipe, teach me the right mindset so I can progress in the story, but the power struggle (and subsequent hate/love relationship) between the DM and his players is part of what makes RPGs fun - be it a video game or tabletop. If you get upset at your players for doing something you did not plan for, you're just a shit DM... or a shit game designer.