Fallout series

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Campbell_Trio said:
Valid point but you know exactly the type of crowd killable kids attract (they have mods from a certain site for the fallen)
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honestly i just wanted to remove the mick and ralph's crier. on pc i can just do that by typing zap. i don't need a child gore mod for it.
 
Campbell_Trio said:
Also killable children is a feature only insane people want
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it's just another layer of wanting things to be believable.
if there was a mission where you had to kill some dude in a crowd, you might hesitate chucking a grenade if you
saw kids in the crowd, you wouldn't hesitate if you knew kids were just immortal beings.

not every game needs killable kids, but if a game does, it should be taken seriously.
 
Cryogonal2 said:
honestly i just wanted to remove the mick and ralph's crier. on pc i can just do that by typing zap. i don't need a child gore mod for it.
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But they've got stuff they aren't even allowed to sell people!
FrogMinutes said:
it's just another layer of wanting things to be believable.
if there was a mission where you had to kill some dude in a crowd, you might hesitate chucking a grenade if you
saw kids in the crowd, you wouldn't hesitate if you knew kids were just immortal beings.
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Would be neat if they did it like fallout 1 where killing so many kids sends a high level npc to kill you instead of just "kids are killable and are treated no differently than adult deaths."
 
>IMPLYING said:
The entertainment value of fanfiction is to shit on it.
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the problem are the levels, if it's still contained in regular fan-tier shit then it's alright because it is sonic stuff where you can mock just fine but once it reaches official level retardation it becomes shit like dragon age or world of warcraft... then it just becomes sad as the fucking retards are never reeled in.
 
Campbell_Trio said:
Would be neat if they did it like fallout 1 where killing so many kids sends a high level npc to kill you instead of just "kids are killable and are treated no differently than adult deaths."
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I could see both working really well.
you could argue there isn't established law in the wasteland yet to explain why no kill squad comes your way.
if the sequel sent the kill squad, it'd make the setting feel like there's rebuilding in the wasteland.

or imagine if earlier in a game you didn't help out a town establish some form of police/guard/outpost, whatever.
and you kill a kid? no one gets sent your way to kill you. and if you did help them. they now have the resources to hunt you down.

this is such a small detail to implement, but this simple, if the player helped the town, they have the resources to punish the player
can go a long way to make the setting more believable.
 
FrogMinutes said:
it's just another layer of wanting things to be believable.
if there was a mission where you had to kill some dude in a crowd, you might hesitate chucking a grenade if you
saw kids in the crowd, you wouldn't hesitate if you knew kids were just immortal beings.

not every game needs killable kids, but if a game does, it should be taken seriously.
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Yeah honestly it's the only reason I might consider installing one, but then you realize that there aren't really that many kids in these games by default and from my experience I almost never seem them period, let alone near a crowd of NPCs. What I do see from people who post about their use of these mods are pretty weird (at best) and even pair it with mods that increase the amount of children in the game.
Now, I will give them a fair shake and say it's for immersion and they don't actually go out and mass murder child NPCs. Some even stranger folks use mods that add children to hostile factions, for example raider children and Forsworn children (going by the ones I outright know exist) but you can probably still argue it's for immersion or whatever.
Then there's the absolute freaks of nature like the AllTheFallen pedophiles like @Campbell_Trio said who go the full mile, won't go into detail but you can imagine.
FrogMinutes said:
not every game needs killable kids, but if a game does, it should be taken seriously.
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The isometrics (except Tactics) had the childkiller perk and are a perfect example of that, and even gives some leeway for accidents in combat.
 
Tri-Tachyon'sClown said:
but then you realize that there aren't really that many kids in these games by default and from my experience I almost never seem them period,
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a part of me feels like someone really pushed for killable kids, got far as to get it implemented and programed in,
and then level designers and writers probably didn't want to implement that feature in any meaningful way to the story or any quests.

what makes the feature of killing kids interesting isn't the act of killing them, but the reaction the world has to it.
killable kids is one sure fire way to have every single mechanic you've set up for the game like : reputation, buying from traders, companions ECT. to all connect to each other. and all say: "what the fuck are you doing?" to the player in their own ways.
reputation hit, can't buy from traders. companions leaving, death squads sent

By "take it seriously" I don't mean just doing it respectfully, I mean actually having mechanics to punish the player.
 
FrogMinutes said:
what makes the feature of killing kids interesting isn't the act of killing them, but the reaction the world has to it.
killable kids is one sure fire way to have every single mechanic you've set up for the game like : reputation, buying from traders, companions ECT. to all connect to each other. and all say: "what the fuck are you doing?" to the player in their own ways.
reputation hit, can't buy from traders. companions leaving, death squads sent
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Exactly, it should be treated as an absolutely horrific thing and you should be socially ostracized and even hunted down by all but the most depraved factions. It should be a complete karma nuke and it kills me that-like you said-it's like they did all the work in making that a mechanic only to not do anything with it other than an unofficial "hard mode."
FrogMinutes said:
actually THINK about hypothetical rape morality before you speak in the Fallout thread.
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Jeez man, bit much there. Was just a question, a valid one considering the nature of nonces and how many their kind think of it's actually "love" rather than the statutory rape deserving of an execution it actually is. Doubt many are into pedophilia and necrophilia, but I do see why one would think that since they're both depraved fetishes.
 
30+GameOvers said:
Speculation doesn't hurt, but there is zero confirmed cases in-game of ghouls serving under NCR during Fallout 2, I'm sure you can go into the game's editor and click thru every single NCR npc within Shady Sands and random encounters around the map thru the mapper if you don't believe me.
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It's been like 30+ years since I've played F2 (and more than 30 game overs) but IIRC ghoul NPCs do pop up in "NCR ranger patrol" random encounter you can stumble upon around NCR. They're the standard "naked green ghoul with a rifle" sprite.

edit: checked out wiki for F2 random encounters list, it appears I misrembered, there's no ghoul rangers
 
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FrogMinutes said:
a part of me feels like someone really pushed for killable kids, got far as to get it implemented and programed in,
and then level designers and writers probably didn't want to implement that feature in any meaningful way to the story or any quests.
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It's more likely that management forbade them from having killable kids, since that's pretty much a guaranteed "Adults Only" rating from the ESRB and you can say goodbye to your sales numbers, especially since a large number of retailers would refuse to stock anything rated higher than "Mature".
 
Unimaginative Username said:
It's more likely that management forbade them from having killable kids, since that's pretty much a guaranteed "Adults Only" rating from the ESRB and you can say goodbye to your sales numbers, especially since a large number of retailers would refuse to stock anything rated higher than "Mature".
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True enough, I've never seen an AO rated game in any regular retail store. 99% of them are just porn games and the few that aren't are stuff like Hatred and Manhunt.

Most games that receive an AO rating immediately cut stuff out to bring it down to M, like GTA: San Andreas with Hot Coffee. An AO rating is basically a financial death sentence.
 
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Immortal children is better than the alternative of making kids asshole pickpockets who will steal quest items from your inventory with no notification and then slapping you with a reputation perk that makes everyone hate you for shooting those little shitheads.
And then in the non-us release because of laws around killing kids in games rather than implement a proper fix or removing the kids outright they just made the kids sprites invisible. So now you would get pickpocketed by ghosts that you can't do anything to, or even steal back from.
 
Unimaginative Username said:
It's more likely that management forbade them from having killable kids,
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you can thank the EU for that
"-We said look, we're going to have kids in the game; you shoot them, it's a huge penalty to karma, you're really disliked, there are places that won't sell to you, people will shoot you on sight, and we thought people can decide what they want to do. [...] This of course contributed to our M-rating, however, Europe said "no". They wouldn't even sell the game if there were children in the game. We didn't have time to rewrite all the quests, we just deleted kids off the disc.
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This whole thing boils down from "we thought people can decide what they want to do"
and doing anything in that context should be enough to easily shoo away that A rating.
key word should.

I'm more annoyed a book like lord of the flies, or something like IT gets no
pushback for their depictions of the same subject. but when fallout does something like
this, oh no the EU has to come in and say you can't do that:

baby punt.png
 
Some more stupid misc shit I noticed from the S2 trailer

The horns on Lanius's helmet are facing the wrong direction

The Great Khans logo is completely wrong

That Gun looks nothing like the one in game or the Blade Runner weapon it's based on

The 187 drive in theater is directly outside of Novac instead of Primm

Legion recruits are wearing Legion veteran armor

Some mooks seem to be wearing Talon Company combat armor, the Talon company is not active in the Mojave

Some of the Securitrons have the broken moon face screen, these were prototypes that never left Big Mountain

Whenever they talk about Vegas they either just call it Vegas or "the ruins" even though in universe it is explicitly called The City Of New Vegas.
 
Star Classic said:
To play devil's advocate there is quite a difference between words and visuals.
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when you're reading a book, the book is able to control what you think to some degree,
when I type "apple with a tiny hat on" then I tell you "now imagine my frog with that same hat"
fog hat.gif

I am able to somewhat control what you're thinking. but I'm going out of my way to not mention what kind of hat.
that's where you're putting in the work, it's automatically personalized, this is a key advantage to books.

a visual medium is doing the same thing, but using it's own tools like composition, lighting, intentionally leaving
out detail to, again, make the viewer put in the work to make it personalized. both mediums have the same goal to
control what you're thinking to tell a story without you noticing: Here's a very well made comparison:


games have their own ways of communication, that's where game mechanics come in. the consequences of killable kids perk is just another
nonverbal communication that's impossible to do in any other medium, you can't program game mechanics in a book or a painting.
but it still has that same foundational intention to tell a story like books and art have.
 
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