Fallout series

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There's the NCR sniper that's super pale and rude, she's a woman.
There's that really angry lesbian soldier that will aggressively hit on females and shut down males.
Fuckin Victoria's entire companion story you learn about her being in love with another brotherhood girl and how they were Hella homophobic, not oo rah gay gay gay
You could be a gay or straight porn star for money in F2.
The gay shit in the legion always felt like an obvious joke about the whole inspiration of Caesar you autists are running with, but what do I know.
I can't think of any explicitly gay dudes, (maybe Arcade could be a fag?) But tbf I wasn't looking for them.

Idk, fallout felt kinda realistic in that it has gay shit, it has mutants and then it has people who oppose gay shit and mutants. At least in the first few, you could help the ghouls, mutants, addicts whatever and be nice to them or just say fuck em.
Idk much about F4 I only played it when it came out but I remember you could romance any companion regardless of sex ans that felt super lame and neutered but so did everything else in fallout 4 so maybe it wasnt as bad as I thought.
 
There's the NCR sniper that's super pale and rude, she's a woman.
There's that really angry lesbian soldier that will aggressively hit on females and shut down males.
Fuckin Victoria's entire companion story you learn about her being in love with another brotherhood girl and how they were Hella homophobic, not oo rah gay gay gay
You could be a gay or straight porn star for money in F2.
The gay shit in the legion always felt like an obvious joke about the whole inspiration of Caesar you autists are running with, but what do I know.
I can't think of any explicitly gay dudes, (maybe Arcade could be a fag?) But tbf I wasn't looking for them.

Idk, fallout felt kinda realistic in that it has gay shit, it has mutants and then it has people who oppose gay shit and mutants. At least in the first few, you could help the ghouls, mutants, addicts whatever and be nice to them or just say fuck em.
Idk much about F4 I only played it when it came out but I remember you could romance any companion regardless of sex ans that felt super lame and neutered but so did everything else in fallout 4 so maybe it wasnt as bad as I thought.
I think there's one old NCR guy that tells you to not broadcast you/him being homos if you hit on him with Confirmed Bachelor and some scientist spic.
 
I think the point is that it never felt intrusive or like there was an agenda being pushed. There is a clear difference between gays in Fallout and gays in The Outer Worlds or Dustborn.

Imagine if the guy who is at the memorial was angry because they used his brother's deadname.

I have to thank the Master that NV wasn't made 10 years later.
 
I think the point is that it never felt intrusive or like there was an agenda being pushed. There is a clear difference between gays in Fallout and gays in The Outer Worlds or Dustborn.
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Neither Veronica nor Arcade even tell you they're gay unless you ask pretty personal questions. Christine doesn't either. Betsy being a lesbian is clearly meant to be off putting and pretty much outright said to something that should be treated rather than affirmed since (like all/most faggotry) it's sourced from trauma.

None of the fallout games are "woke" besides like 76, and even calling that woke feels like a misnomer, its more retarded pandering if anything.
 
There’s also Colonel Moore who I guess you could argue is incompetent because her whole thing is just “kill any group that gets in our way”.
In Moore's defense most of the groups she's levying that on aren't exactly the most innocent. They don't really have time to draft up a treaty for House whose only delaying the inevitable. Brotherhood and Khans are already long standing enemies of the NCR, and Moore already had like decades worth experience battling them so she understandably wants nothing more than to see them dead and buried. I think anyone with a braincell can tell you why the khans absolutely get what's coming to them.

Bitchy? Yes, but understandably so. Saying she's incompetent would be wrong, that'd be Oliver and/or Kimball.

JSawyer giving her Evil Karma was probably one of the worst decisions, ever.
 
None of the fallout games are "woke"
the intensity of all the gay aspects are not what makes something "woke" it's the intention to add those aspects in the first place.
if you were to ask why add gay shit if it adds nothing to the game. you'll get a response that's more or less:
"it's about representation"

Dustborn has that same reasoning cranked up to the max.
if you look at modern obsidian, then looked back at these small aspects that can 96% be ignored.
nothing about modern obsidian will surprise you. I'm not saying that 4% of gay shit is a big deal, but I am saying that tiny number
only got bigger because no one said anything. and now we got (dude I can't even remember their last shitty game obsidian made, the gay one)
don't fucking tell me people saying something can't change the course of history, think back to that first sonic movie
sega saw the discourse, and immediately listened.

I know how bad things are now, that's why I'm mostly playing older games, I'm looking back at games I've enjoyed
and seeing stuff being retroactively claimed by faggots :
"Catherine was always pro trans, that one joke about a tranny sleeping with a kid without telling him he's actually a man, was powerful"
then I look to how fucking gay and retarded atlus is now, I can see the hints they were always going this direction.

That's not to say I enjoy Catherine any less when I'm critical over what's supposed to be a joke,
I'm just aware people will use modern terms like dead-naming, then try to make the point "it's always been this way"
but when I come to the same conclusion in a different way, those same people refuse that same conclusion
 
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Neither Veronica nor Arcade even tell you they're gay unless you ask pretty personal questions. Christine doesn't either. Betsy being a lesbian is clearly meant to be off putting and pretty much outright said to something that should be treated rather than affirmed since (like all/most faggotry) it's sourced from trauma.

None of the fallout games are "woke" besides like 76, and even calling that woke feels like a misnomer, its more retarded pandering if anything.
i honestly think debates/conversations about this just wind up taking lots of time and nobody's opinion changes. doesn't mean there's no point in them, but various problems that already fuck it, for one, the window for what people consider propaganda or blackrock checklists is waaaaaay borked. like kc 2, many people think it has no/acceptable woke shit, musa and the jew arc and the rampant open gayness, from characters established as both straight and underaged, (back when the primary downfall of the templars was "alleged" sodomy for one), women openly mocking knights and being forced girlbosses against 6" mail trained soldiers, even with the dev actively and purposely going from making the first as literally accurate as possible, with public defense of it, to kc2 where he just straight up is now "fuck chuds/it's not there/if it's there it's good actually"

for new vegas, the current trending article however is that the lead writer thinks he wrote caesar's legion ""too well"", his goal being to make a believable fascist dictatorship or whatever fucking buzzword and he's basically worried he made it too appealing, and honestly, that sole interview alone i think is enough to consider new vegas' writing jeopordized if you see nothing else. there's things like women in the ncr that have defendible arguments from both sides that go nowhere, like "why the fuck are healthy women on the front lines or in the coal mines instead of being the most valuable currency or at minimum protected and coddled af whether they want it or not" vs "um actually chud they need to be soldiers and there's never been a reason women aren't made to go into wars besides sexism", and after 2 hours both will have the same opinions. various things like a heavily noticable forced uptick in gay characters will just be "well what's your problem chudster?"

but fear of "writing them too well" or whatever you want to call it is universally retarded, and who he chose to be upset about shows their bias. i'll use the hitler card; if you are the most zionist, happy merchant ass jew, i guess i should say "imo", but you should always wants nazis portrayed as very serious, very smart and capable. i can't find the fucking quote, but it's like some nigger said about insulting your enemies or downgrading them just makes you look fucking dumb for losing that bad. it eventually just leads to removing the option to have them as anything besides "grrr i hate jews and babies and puppies" and 3 versions of "die nazi scum".

personally to me though, the biggest sins when i think of new vegas are off the top of my head, some order of
1. ulysses is fucking dog shit and is both 1. clearly just a soapbox from a writer, and 2. is a mindjacked character, because he's clearly hungry for revenge for his family and you can possibly persuade him otherwise, but then the character stops and also has 50 minutes of shit talking every single faction including picking no faction.
2., owb, the brain talking without wild wasteland as a perk with seth mcfarlane voice and dialogue is fucking stupid. the other funny shit still works with the seriousness and has cause, but the brain talking is fucking stupid, they should have made the dialogue less family guy, more serious, and if anything did muted subtitle dialogue. on top of that, lonesome road ed-e being forced anakin tech speak? GO FUCK YOURSELF.
3., shipfag yes, but it's always been retarded to me how in cass' end she randomly screws a dude instead of a male courier regardless of quests completed. "free spirit" doesn't really work for me with it either i dunno, feels more like bonny and clyde but i'm a housefag anyway so i guess i'll stick with hearing about constant fag and lesbo romance drama while holding my monroe sex bot.

4. and for less shipfag and honestly the least jokey reason, raul's quest is fucking stupid. boone and other's are also but raul's is the standout; the "correct" choice should be to meld his 2 identities instead of basically "go back to your fucking shack nigger" or "you should just be a zombie cowboy forever". there is no melding being an elder and being a gunslinger, clearly gunslinger is supposed to be the "correct" moral option but a few dialogue chains feel stupid to get there when you interact with older people. or like with boone, there's basically permanently regretful or serial killer. several characters would have worked far better than they already can be if there was more of the "dog"/"god" meshing in less major ways. there's a very big focus in new vegas of neutrality or a middle way but several of the most important/meaningful quests in the game just involve extremes when they shouldn't, which really stand out
 
The gay shit in the legion always felt like an obvious joke about the whole inspiration of Caesar you autists are running with, but what do I know.
I can't think of any explicitly gay dudes, (maybe Arcade could be a fag?) But tbf I wasn't looking for them.
On the topic of Arcade Gannon who is very much a homosexual...

From his dialogue:
"Since my mother died, Daisy's been the only woman in my life. She was the only other woman close to my father, too. She flew him out on over a dozen missions, including his last. I've always been close to Daisy. There have been some good men along the way, but lovers make poor confidants. Daisy never had children of her own, so she was always there to listen. Being in the Enclave didn't mean much to her. She just loved to fly. It broke her heart to be grounded."

He can be sold into slavery by the Courier to the Legion and becomes Caesar's unwilling personal physician. Should the player do this, during an end slide It is said Caesar grew fond of him and uses him as an "unwilling" intellectual sparring partner. Years into his servitude, Gannon uses a surgical scalpel to disembowel himself during an unguarded moment. Caesar mourns his loss for months.

 
On the topic of Arcade Gannon who is very much a homosexual...

From his dialogue:

He can be sold into slavery by the Courier to the Legion and becomes Caesar's unwilling personal physician. Should the player do this, during an end slide It is said Caesar grew fond of him and uses him as an "unwilling" intellectual sparring partner. Years into his servitude, Gannon uses a surgical scalpel to disembowel himself during an unguarded moment. Caesar mourns his loss for months.

As much as I love New Vegas, it's undeniably one of the first woke games. Between pushing the homosexual persecution narrative, every third NPC being a shitskin, and the fact that the writers couldn't help but undermine the Legion by emphasizing that they're secretly gay and lame, it laid the formula for woke games, it just managed to be a masterpiece despite being woke, which no game that's tried to copy it has managed to do. Humorously, due to Bethesda only copying the surface level aspects of New Vegas, Fallout 4 largely avoided wokeness in favor of "look it's cowboys and root beer and returning characters!"
 
In Moore's defense most of the groups she's levying that on aren't exactly the most innocent. They don't really have time to draft up a treaty for House whose only delaying the inevitable. Brotherhood and Khans are already long standing enemies of the NCR, and Moore already had like decades worth experience battling them so she understandably wants nothing more than to see them dead and buried. I think anyone with a braincell can tell you why the khans absolutely get what's coming to them.

Bitchy? Yes, but understandably so. Saying she's incompetent would be wrong, that'd be Oliver and/or Kimball.

JSawyer giving her Evil Karma was probably one of the worst decisions, ever.
I heavily disagree, she throws a shitfit and probably sacks ambassador crocker because how we deal with the kings and BoS, even her military history is a sham cause the BoS NCR war is in itself a very absurd narrative point, because seeing how BoS had bases literally in the heart of the NCR, a war would be a devastation or at least crippling NCR to a heavy extent. The incompetency argument comes because NCR even with it rangers is not the force that can afford a full war with all factions, while she unnecessarily wants a war with them.
 
None of the fallout games are "woke" besides like 76, and even calling that woke feels like a misnomer, its more retarded pandering if anything.
I feel like "woke" is something that is unavoidably obvious when it's applicable, like it doesn't even need to be proven because it would be obvious if it was true. Just look at Dustborn, you don't need to say a word because one glance says it all.
 
As much as I love New Vegas, it's undeniably one of the first woke games. Between pushing the homosexual persecution narrative, every third NPC being a shitskin, and the fact that the writers couldn't help but undermine the Legion by emphasizing that they're secretly gay and lame, it laid the formula for woke games, it just managed to be a masterpiece despite being woke, which no game that's tried to copy it has managed to do. Humorously, due to Bethesda only copying the surface level aspects of New Vegas, Fallout 4 largely avoided wokeness in favor of "look it's cowboys and root beer and returning characters!"
Fallout, at least on the West Coast post Fallout 1 is one of the few series I don't really care about portraying an abundance of characters as brown, and it's mostly because the Vault Dweller was a retard who started a tribal village with his white vault inhabitants while the brownoids that came from Vault 15 made the NCR.
It's kinda funny how Vault-tec filled Vault 15 with minorties with no oversight and the minorities just proceeded to breed out of control to the point where the vault was massively overcrowded just 20 years after it was sealed.
 
30+ game overs is also in this thread, so frankly I think there is some stiff competition for that title of dubious worth.
30+ just rants about how people are wrong for not downloading their opinions from youtube essayists and sometimes makes a good point in his favor.
Glup posts garbage and leans too hard into being an edgelord
 
I heavily disagree, she throws a shitfit and probably sacks ambassador crocker because how we deal with the kings and BoS, even her military history is a sham cause the BoS NCR war is in itself a very absurd narrative point, because seeing how BoS had bases literally in the heart of the NCR, a war would be a devastation or at least crippling NCR to a heavy extent.
Where are getting this info from? There is no notion that the NCR faked an entire war nor did Moore fake her military career, this is backed up by several characters and pieces of text in the game.

As for Lost Hills being within NCR territory, sure, but what I think you're saying is that the NCR being devastated by a war against a theoretically superior foe and appearing how it is in NV are mutually exclusive, when they aren't.

Considering that the war has being going for a pretty long time*, I see no reason that they cannot bounce back. House himself even made the observation that the Brotherhood was losing a war of attrition since while they had superior weaponry and armor, they had no where near the replacement rate or numbers of the NCR. Not to mention that every bunker/outpost captured meant even more stuff for the NCR to use against them.

it feels like as if you're saying your own personal logistical observations override what the game itself presents.

*admittedly the game falters in presenting how early or late into the war NV is.

The incompetency argument comes because NCR even with it rangers is not the force that can afford a full war with all factions, while she unnecessarily wants a war with them.
What full war? You the courier are sent in to wipe out the leadership and most likely the primary base of operations for the only two factions.

Sure Moore is petty about a lot of things, but again a lot of it is inherently understandable. If you were working with Hsu or Crocker still, I could see them maybe trying to work out a deal with House, but Moore wants results more than anything.

The brotherhood is still outright at war with the NCR by the time of NV, now what exactly do you think is going to happen when some fat brahmin baron in the senate sees that in some forgotten desert campaign that a lot of his money/worker's money is going to, the military commanders had the audacity to make good with easily their biggest foe that I guarantee is on every piece of military propaganda, that's not only cutting into his profits, but has at the very least claimed one or two lives of people he knows.

Moore throws a shitfit because you made buddy buddy with the people that have killed hundreds under her command, and I doubt the brotherhood care about civilian causalities.

Again, nothing needs to be said about the khans.

Moore is not a good person (if such a thing even exists) but neither is any of their enemies, Moore knows what her skillset is and obviously her history and faction is going to influence what she tells you to do about their foes.
 
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3., shipfag yes, but it's always been retarded to me how in cass' end she randomly screws a dude instead of a male courier regardless of quests completed. "free spirit" doesn't really work for me with it either i dunno, feels more like bonny and clyde but i'm a housefag anyway so i guess i'll stick with hearing about constant fag and lesbo romance drama while holding my monroe sex bot.
My impression is that was just Chris Avellone doing a "fuck you." There's no shortage of writers who do that on purpose.
 
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