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In either case, the ignore button solves pointless arguments before they may begin!
Fallout series
- Thread starter exball
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Serbian Peacekeepers
kiwifarms.net
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You bring up gay sex and suddenly a Kiwifarms thread hyperfixates on it for a day, very curious.
foreman 89
kiwifarms.net
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- Feb 23, 2021
It's set in Nevada where Whites were only 54% of the population in the 2010 census.
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- Dec 27, 2021
I am saying its a narrative failure, its sham in a manner that its really hard to believe rangers were successful enough to fight behemoths made up of metal and armed to teeth with laser weapons even the lame reason of NCR winning that they have more men, and she her backing is flimsy, for such a ranger or legendary character they dont have any influence in the game except for the fact she wants Brotherhood dead. Not only that there is no unique gun that she even drops for being such a decorated "hero" its clear she was intended to be fleshed out as an evil character and whats wrong with the NCR unlike Hanlon who has the Ranger Sequoia, or Hsu who gives you the safe key to the NCR warehouse.
Yeah i am exactly saying that, the reason why NCR rose and shady sands did not got decimated was because of the help of the BoS, they should have been decorated as the heroes. They were the reason why the Vault Dweller and the Chosen one were poised enough to take down the foes that would put NCR to the dirt. In all reality, the narrative leads to NCR being an alliance more than a country or regime, where the BoS would play a bigger role.
Yeah and I find that ridiculous, NCR is not Russia that it can afford thousands of men to be thrown in the meat grinder. We are talking of heavy tech disparity closer to Azerbaijan Armenia war where they use Drones to a great efficiency and won even though Armenia had more people in number. The Helios is still booby trapped and whole sections are cut off because of it, the BoS should have dominated or at least created their own break away civilization considering how influential they were.
No i am following the narrative, In fallout 1 you see BoS already being a heavy bulwark that wiped away the intelligent Super Mutant who tore and razed settlements to the ground, in 2 they may have been splintered and weakened but they did had enough have influence and helped NCR but for some reason the devs decided that NCR was so strong that they took heavily armed settlements with shitty explanations keeping BoS out of the picture and thats what I am calling a narrative failure.
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- Oct 18, 2022
Tell me you haven't been in a real fight without telling me you haven't been in a real fight. Logistics and numbers make an army, not individual bravado or tech gadgets. Homo Sapiens routinely flee from cockroach-infested living spaces despite being so advanced, they might as well be considered Gods compared to them.
Paladins are not superhuman, they get hungry and tired like everyone else. It's always easier to destroy something (say, punch through a TB-51 power armor with a deathclaw-caliber rifle) than to build it. IDK why NCR would want a war with BoS since their specialty was always making deals and talking things through, but I did not play past FO: Tactics. Maybe Tandi's succesor is a feebleminded clown who doesn't understand that it doesn't pay to risk experts who know how to work pre-War tech getting killed in the chaos of battle.
In an all-out war against the NCR, BoS simply does not have the numbers. My head cannon for F:NV is that NCR got one of the bad ends where it is taken over by Enclave's remnants after Choosen One blows the Oil Rig and that explains the heavy-handedness and incompetence.
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- Dec 13, 2022
you seem to forget it's a actual joke within the legion that the NCR is so shit they have their women fighting their wars for them.
the gay thing is literally only by ncr side, if you try to make that joke with the legion they say it's punishable with death, insallah.
i was going to correct you and say he is a mormon but they are interchangeable... you nailed most of it but forgot his faggotry is pretty much because he has a beef to what joshua became considering his origin being the same as his, it literally fucking blinds him to a point you need high charisma to break that view from him, once you destroy that faggotry of his he becomes even more sadder and vows to leave the sorrows be once it's all over, taking his teachings with him.
WHAT A FAG.
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- Sep 16, 2024
As a certified NCR hater myself, the only reason that the NCR didn't steamroll the entre West Coast and New Vegas entirely is because arbitrarily they are just completely incapable of reverse engineering or building factories or even understanding how to use Power Armor.
You're really telling me that there wasn't like a Nazi Scientist post WW2 situation between the NCR and the Enclave?
Basically the NCR are written to me arbitrarily stupid because otherwise they'd all have t-51b and Advanced Power Armor and the brand recognition of the BoS and Enclave would be destroyed.
You're really telling me that there wasn't like a Nazi Scientist post WW2 situation between the NCR and the Enclave?
Basically the NCR are written to me arbitrarily stupid because otherwise they'd all have t-51b and Advanced Power Armor and the brand recognition of the BoS and Enclave would be destroyed.
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- Dec 13, 2022
power armor is just that much of a good secret, like the cooking stoves from the 60's no company can do today.
If anything the tech seems to be more like all of the power armor schemas and whatnot are being guarded by enclave/BoS and they are so mechanically shit to deal with it makes reverse engineering a huge fucking costly hassle, salvaged power armor seems to be the current development of the reverse engineering efforts for now, seeing how the FO IP is in the hands of absolute fucktards you won't see any developments on it for a good while or they might mystically figure it out like in FO4 with frames being interchangeable and all of the eletronics/servos being in each piece.
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- Sep 16, 2024
You just made me remember those fucking greaser niggers in Fallout 4 who all had power armor and treated it like fucking Hot Rods and now I am mad.
Also it doesn't really matter how much of a well-kept secret it is, it's retarded that the NCR decided to go on a campaign of genocide against the Enclave when from what we actually know, it was really only the Top Brass that were down for the genocide. Somebody like Cannibal Johnson would've absolutely taught the NCR to use it, but instead had to live in a cave because the NCR decided to act retarded.
IMO that would've been a far better reason for the start of hostilities between the NCR and the BoS, the BoS are zealot fanatics that demand every Enclave member is killed, but the NCR are greedy pragmatists and wanted to use what the Enclave knew.
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- Oct 9, 2024
i guess a society that build fucking synths would have figured it by now how to fix houses without ringy dinky scraps or shit like that. fallout 4 tone is all over the place
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- Nov 25, 2024
Not an excuse, but at least they give more reasons for why Boston is still in an awful place than DC.
>IMPLYING
kiwifarms.net
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My definition of "woke" is stuff done on the basis of or derivative thereof Critical Theory (sometimes wrapped up in the colloquial "Cultural Marxism"). Having a gay character because "gays are underrepresented"/"Push back against stereotypes" vs "just because"/"it serves a purpose" is the difference between it being woke or not.
The inclusion of an element does not make something woke on its own, otherwise you can argue anything is woke under specific lenses. If Ellen Ripley, a woman action hero, is argued as being an intentional subversion based on stereotypical portrayals of women in media and to portray a woman as strong, brave, and capable of holding her own in an action scenario to help break the stranglehold of the patriarchy over the female sex, then yeah - Aliens is woke. But her being a woman is never really a point of contention in the story itself. It's certainly liberal, but it's not woke. There's a difference, even if there's sometimes overlap. It's usually tied to intent and subsequently the scope of a particular element's inclusion in the plot. And due to how things can be interpreted based on what's told to us explicitly in the story, woke stuff today tries its hardest to make sure there's no other interpretation of something other than the writer's clear point about something woke-related.
An easy way of determining wokeness is if a particular element is still functional if the woman is replaced with a man and vice versa. This is liberal, because man = woman and vice versa in terms of capability. Wokeness makes the element nonsensical if the woman is replaced with a man, as the story element is usually crafted to purpose. It's a very contradictory mentality stressing equality while simultaneously making it unequal. Intent is the major point of issue. If there exists a reason you can intuit for why someone was, or it's cancelled out by another element portrayed in earnest, it's hard to argue strictly that something is woke. In the video the points listed are:
(1) NCR made half their army female :
They had suffered massive casualties against the Legion because they were unprepared to face tactics and discipline after relying so long on quantity and armaments, and now have to bolster their military with women to make up the numbers. One could also be cynical and infer it gets 2 birds with 1 stone:
(1) Gives them more hands to point guns at the Legion (who are an existential threat mind)
(2) It helps reduce their booming and resource-draining population numbers by putting more women into the grinder.
In-game we're told training standards have decreased massively just to facilitate putting enough boots on the ground against the Legion. Boone and Hanlon (in his ending) are two male NCR characters who also leave the military due to how shit the leadership was. Skilled figures leaving + lots of dead = slipping standards when it comes to promotions, which also explains the predominance of women in leadership roles.
A lot of the differences between how women and men are handled in the army aren't generally known by a lot of people so with this in mind, it's safe to assume the conditions they'd have men and women soldiers living in are 1:1 and co-ed, vs the reality of the situation. Most people do not know the slackened standards, concessions, and otherwise soft touch the opposite sex gets in the military. That's a factor to keep in mind when you see this sort of thing. Maybe people would give you side eye for raising the point: "What do you think they do about periods?"
Lemme tell you now: nobody on the New Vegas writing team was considering how the NCR's abundance female soldiers are handling their menstrual cycles.
This example is also joined with an in-game example of the NCR sending an all-female squad to confront the Kings, an ostensibly all-male faction, shows something of a contradiction. It arguably could've been the point of sending a wholly female NCR squad - to create contrast, or because sending only women to convince - not fight - a bunch of guys into doing what they want because they're men just shows the NCR's cynicism towards the Kings alongside a pragmatic use for their women.
I might be reading too much into it and I don't even know if it's intentional or not, but effectively the NCR and Legion are bizarre reflections and contradictions of one another, and I think many people have it mixed up in their heads (including myself once) that the NCR was quality over quantity and the Legion were quantity over quality based entirely on appearance and equipment. It's actually the opposite. The Legion simultaneously emphasises quality and tactics, kneecapped heavily by a lack of tech and overreliance on officers to direct the battle thus giving them no battlefield flexibility. The NCR fuses quantity and a relative tech advantage, but lack in quality and don't operate on merit as much as their open recruitment would imply, however they're more flexible on the battlefield which synergises well with their tech advantage. Caesar's endgoal of synthesis between NCR and Legion would basically mean being rid of both of their armies shortcomings.
(2) There's no gameplay difference between a male and female courier:
Some perks and interactions are gender-locked to be fair. You can't flirt with that one Ranger if you're a dude nor can you sleep with Benny unless you're a woman. Gameplaywise it's pragmatic to feature little in the way of differences so both are equally valid to play as. I do prefer when the story, in some way, acknowledges your character beyond pure stats which Fallout New Vegas does do at least. The main point of contention is even if sex did alter stats, giving women +1 agility -1 strength or something would raise arguments.
The most "woke" example I've seen of character sex recognition is Dragon Age: Veilguard. I don't think anything has even come close to it and unless it's some Indieslop I don't know about, I don't think anything ever will.
This isn't related to anything but I remember a Dark Souls speedrunner playing as a short woman character because hitboxes were better or something and then they ended up becoming a tranny, so maybe it's better you don't feature gameplay differences lmao.
(3) A female NCR ranger beat a bunch of Legion (all-male) with her bare hands:
Liberal mindset of women being as capable/equal to men, this NCR ranger kicked the asses of a bunch of untrained, undisciplined recruits with her bare hands. We know Rangers are trained in unarmed combat so this is less "women > men" and more "women = men". We also don't know to what extent she won via superior martial arts skills and strength or just full on feral biting, eye-gouging, scratching craziness that a half-starved, doomed-to-death prisoner probably wouldn't be shy about employing. Bell-curve distribution also wouldn't make the possibility of such a woman impossible. Also the fact she was captured in the first place means it's possible to infer she's fine during 1 on 1s but when outnumbered she'd be fucked.
This point is nestled in the fact you'll only be able to encounter it as a male character. Women are not allowed to fight in the arena regardless of the player's actions. The story is acknowledging your sex and restricting you for it.
(4) Female NCR president:
She didn't get it because she was a woman, she got it in spite of the fact because she was the first president's daughter because she's basically a monarch, as Caesar points out. She was also shrewd and pragmatic in F2 so it's not like she doesn't prove herself capable in the role. There weren't a ton of super capable queens IRL in proportion to men but give enough time in a position, surrounded by loyal and capable men, they're bound to do a good job regardless - that's assuming they weren't training or preparing for the role their entire lives, which some were as a form of contingency.
You could argue she's brought up at all because she was a woman, but I'd argue it's just as likely she was brought up because the game needs to establish itself as being a chronological continuance from 2 rather than standalone, and forming connections to past games is an easy way of doing that. Memberberries references are also a given to any sequel.
(5) NCR's decline is too vague (could be the reason for female soldiers, could also be because a male president took over from a female one)
This one feels somewhat contrived but I think the complaint is that the decline is attributed to the inept control of men after losing their female president, but again, this is very contingent on intent. You could just as easily attribute the decline to the predominance of women in the military if you wanted which'd make it "based" or something. Avellone wanting to de-power or weaken the NCR has more credibility behind this than any woke factor.
(6) Suspension of disbelief can be used to justify the inclusion of woke elements/dismiss their inclusion
When this is used to justify woke stuff, it's typically easy to rebuke in the form of reductio ad absurdum.
Suspension of disbelief is how far you're willing to stretch yourself regarding the plausibility of certain elements. This is subjective, but in left-wing metaphysics shit (like transgenderism) stuff doesn't have to abide by the constraints of reality.
(7) Left-wing writers
Left-wingers will use "liberal" as a pejorative because it's seen as a tool of the bourgeoisie to stem revolutionary discontentment. Liberals are left-leaning, at least the ones who call themselves Liberal, but if you believe in any form of tolerance, free speech, religious freedom, etcetera, you're also some shade of liberal, even if you're Conservative. Many artist-types are generally Liberal due to wanting no constraints on their art, and since "liberal" is now synonymous with left-wing, many will call themselves left-wing even if they aren't actually left-wing. Whilst the Legion is anti-Liberal, the NCR is Liberal but not Left-wing. All woke games are Liberal but not all Liberal games are woke, basically. Vampire the Masquerade features a jab or two at Republicans/Bush but that'd hardly be tarred as a woke game today, unless one drop rule applies in that regard.
Critical Theory/Marxism is anathema to Liberalism because it argues for the necessity of privilege based on characteristics to compensate for perceived societal oppression, whether it's covert or overt, long-since ended or still ongoing. Liberalism disagrees with because we're all supposed to be the same. If the female NCR characters were put there by a designer who did so because, "Society has kept women out of the military for too long," that'd be woke. If they're women in order to have the gender distribution be 50/50, that's more Liberal. It's splitting hairs but the former usually negatively impacts the writing whereas the latter is just more annoying due to how noticeable it is.
( 8 ) Honest Hearts received complaints of "white saviour" in 2011 - all the tribes are ambiguous in their ethic and cultural makeup i.e. mystery meats.
This was mostly reactive by game journos to the DLC and responded to with damage control by Obsidian. If something's not in the source content itself it may as well be ignored.
(9) Gay companions & Characters
I do not care since they're not a product of woke inclusion. The Brotherhood opposing Veronica's relationship is literally a product of Elijah's meddling to isolate her and even the given reason is less "lesbian bad" and more pragmatic. Otherwise their inclusion doesn't sound off any bells. Compare these characters to, say, Dorian from Dragon Age Inquisition. I liked the dude well enough but his whole characterisation and backstory is based on the fact he's gay and is essentially the primary driver of the wedge between him and Tevinter. Veronica's lesbianism would be woke if it was the main reason she was feeling estranged from the Brotherhood, because the commentary is less on "The Brotherhood refuses to change itself for the better" and more on "I can't smash mad clam with other chicks and now I want to abandon my family."
(Orientation > family is more often than not woke because it's arguing the importance of self over others. Though economically communal, Marxism and its derivatives are hyper-individualist, which is the essence of why they think revolution is necessary because the bourgeoisie are the only people capable of being themselves because they don't have oppressive societal constraints on them.)
(10) Ulysses:
I won't bother much with this, but you can easily argue his reaction to this braids being worn by others can be just as much a condemnation of cultural melting as cultural appropriation. Similar to how Night of the Living Dead wasn't a civil rights allegory, I think Ulysses' whole "bear, bull, bear - muh symbols" is rather direct and mistaking his intent for anything else is easy but not correct.
(11) Benny is a sign of woke game design because it's more logical to go shoot and kill him rather than do anything else:
I personally consider this is dumb. In conjunction with his regard to Caesar's Legion being socially primitive and not really knowing why you'd join them besides being edgy, I'm not entirely sure why Syntheticman even likes Fallout New Vegas.
Regardless, all of this isn't relevant because woke stuff generally doesn't feature (good) rebukes to their positions because they believe that they're self-evidently and morally correct, so they won't even humour opposing viewpoints. Mr House would not be in a woke game, never mind an option to join the Legion. Whilst the Legion is undeveloped rubbish by and large, Caesar's motives are very high-concept, long-term ones which nobody who would even seriously ruminate on their opponent's ideas would even consider writing. He cites historic precedent, highlights the flaws of his enemies, and is totally rational all things considered. Woke-shit would never do this. It's utterly unquestioning and presented arguments can't be meaningfully opposed. Woke stuff that lets you join the bad guys also doesn't allow you to do so based on their ideals, but rather, on a selfish desire to enrich yourself - it very rarely if ever lets you argue in favour of systems woke would consider "evil".
TLDR: New Vegas might be Liberal, but it's not Woke.
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2024
Holy hell that final automatron fight.
Also i didnt expect ThE Mechanist being a
Todd bros are we back?
Also i didnt expect ThE Mechanist being a
BIG ASSED LATINA awoooga
Campbell_Trio
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Aug 23, 2025
Its not that far fetched to think only high ranking legion members can get away with gay sex but the low ranks get immediately blown up on the spot.
They hire people with hypothetical degrees and rip apart all the components that make power armor power armor because it means it can be deployed faster for their side. They want fast results not actual benefits to their side.
Going off how the remnants talk it seems like the NCR priority was wiping out the enclave over learning/salvage anything good they had. All of this just validates Caesars take of how the ncr only truly worked with Tandi in charge as she probably would have advocated for a ncr operation paperclip in some form.
Remembering the atom cats will do that to someone.
Hell i would argue the raider power armor made more sense since it's just DIY armor welded onto a power armor frame over anything close to the actual power armor sets.
I think we would be losing the plot if new vegas was genuinely considered woke. If it was actually woke there wouldn't be a legion ending imo
Briggs & Stratton
kiwifarms.net
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Started to try watching it, but once the jumpsuit sniper lady started yapping her mouth for days instead of popping heads off I was out. Basic Gay shit all around again. This is not fallout.
foreman 89
kiwifarms.net
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>IMPLYING
kiwifarms.net
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There's a lot of little things within NV that are straight up incompatible with the conglomerate of ideologies that fall under the woke umbrella. To them representation and platforming empower, subversion enhances the oppressed and frees minds, and you must actively reinforce certain ideas to break people out of their preconceived notions of normalcy and reality. That's not to say this exact wording goes into the motivation of including something, but the underpinning of the ideologies that create those mindsets pretty much all flow down from Critical Theory, which flows down from Marxism. If you ever wonder how a Marxist/Communist/what have you, can reconcile working for a corporation whilst maintaining their ideology, Marx pretty much says the Bourgeoisie provides the means for which the Proletariat will overthrow them.
In Marxism the bourgeoisie seek to maintain their own position via enigmatic and sometimes contradictory means, which the critical theorists applied to all societal power structures implicit or explicit, which subsequently exploded into a million different sub-theories that mire creative works today.
The tranny shit came from the 90s with Critical Queer Theory hence why it took a while to actually be observed in our media, but I digress.
So with that in mind, from memory I'll compile what I can think of which wouldn't be allowed if FNV was woke:
(1) Caesar explaining himself using a rational/defined concepts. Woke would allow for a Caesar's ending but there'd be no actual logic to Caesar's actions besides pure self-serving and nebulously, ill-defined "fascism" (i.e. "Vibes" - Umberto Eco) and the player's motive for helping the Legion is locked exclusively to enriching themselves and not any actual subscription to the ideology itself. So no explaining yourself in Lonesome Road either or defending them.
(2) House would not have any sort of altruism in his morality. If he opposed slavery, it'd be on the grounds of it not advancing himself or resulted in less profit, not on the grounds he legitimately considers it horrific and it stunts the development of humanity. Marxism is the root of Critical Theory, and Marxism is built on the foundation that oppression is primarily the result active intent by the bourgeoisie. House cannot be portrayed in any way altruistic because Marxists believe it to be incompatible with their nature, and to do so would be to put the idea in people's heads that, "they're not all bad," when they absolutely do not want people to not consider the bourgeoisie their enemy. Same as the Legion, absolutely no defending or siding with based on ideological overlap.
(3) Black Widow perk wouldn't exist. There's flipflopping over whether a woman's sexuality should be empowering or whether depictions of such undermine feminism but regardless, it'd be easier to play it safe and remove it. This is in contrast to critical queer theory where kink and sexual promiscuity are a rejection of heteronormative ideas, thus subverting what's normal and empowering the oppressed, so the Homo-perk would remain. All else would be removed because it'd be demeaning to women.
(4) No portrayals of trauma that actually affect the person involved negatively. Similar to the above, this is contentious in woke circles but Betsy (NCR sniper who was raped by Cook-Cook) was affected by it, leading to negative behaviours that she needs to correct. The schism here is over whether portraying or referencing rape at all is harmful in of itself and should be excised from everything since it demurs women and keeps them afraid, or whether rape should not break/ruin a woman as a consequence of it being done to them and so it's more empowering to have a woman get raped but remain "powerful", or something. Rape today is now depicted as something which victimises and harms primarily women and simultaneously is something they can just shrug off under the woke paradigm. Betsy either would not have been raped (just avoid it altogether) or still got raped, but there's no player option to do anything about it because there's no problem to solve as a consequence of it.
(5) Vault 21 Jumpsuit quest would be removed, or the option to sleep with the receptionist would be taken out. Receptionist might be a stereotypical female role so she'd become a "he" maybe.
(6) Melissa Watkins, a "dumb blonde" stereotype, would be removed. Ditto to Vault 21 lady.
(7) Arcade or Veronica's sexuality would need to play a larger component in their stories, because "assimilation = erasure". They need to assert themselves more strongly and more visibly specifically so they do not fit in with the people around them. The NCR ranger who wants to keep mum on being gay would also not want to keep quiet unless there's a quest specifically to out him. Actually, bugger that, there'd be no monosexuality at all because they're heteronormative, so Gannon and Veronica would make mention to their same sex lovers but they'll reciprocate both men and women.
( 8 ) Boone's wife would not remain the same as she's been reduced to an object meant to elicit sympathy from the audience. She'd either remain as-is but go in a blaze of glory rather than being mercy-killed by Boone or simply be written out of the game. Boone would instead be depressed over feeling like "a failure" and his personal quest would be restoring confidence in himself or something. Critical Feminist Theory argues that patriarchy oppresses men to by not allowing them to express their feelings so something like this is up their ballpark.
(9) Christine would not be afraid to go down into the dark during Dead Money because women aren't allowed to be depicted as being uniquely held back in action by their trauma, never mind trauma given to her by a man (Dean). It'd either need to be compensated by another cast member (if not all the cast members) similarly having traumas to make it a theme of the story, or it'd be removed entirely. Vera Keyes' role as a victim in the plot of Dead Money would also be problematic.
(10) Yes man would be voiced as a woman to even out "faction leaders", and if need be, the voice not matching the name would be used as a point of pretentious correction about gender or something ala the ship AI in Outer Worlds 1.
There's way more but I can't be bothered.
Campbell_Trio
kiwifarms.net
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- Aug 23, 2025
Isn't she technically the owner of vault 21? I don't think people consider her just a receptionist.
So tldr is that if nv was actually woke it would just be an objectively worse game that wouldn't be discussed to this day because of all the retarded writing changes?
Yeah agree.
Also to toss my 2 cents in the ncr female soldier talk i think writers just hand wave away the menstrual cycle talk because it honestly creates more headaches trying to work around it than its worth. I think bringing up how standards were lowered and female soldiers rising the ranks faster due to the situation the ncr is in does more than enough to show how women in the military isn't a flat benefit.
- Joined
- Nov 22, 2021
One must wonder what Fallout: New Vegas's writing would be like if it was made by the Obsidian of the late 2010s and not the Obsidian of the late 2000s.