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- Nov 25, 2024
Out of the mainline entries (1, 2, 3, NV, & 4) I think Fallout 2 is the worst one. This game is so flawed and I don't understand why people jump to defend it.
Fallout series
- Thread starter exball
- Start date
Out of the mainline entries (1, 2, 3, NV, & 4) I think Fallout 2 is the worst one. This game is so flawed and I don't understand why people jump to defend it.
- Joined
- May 25, 2024
I like New Reno and the Highwayman.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
How? FO4 is the worst one.
But whatever.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2024
I just don't find it fun.
- worst intro
- poorly balanced
- extremely restrictive on what character you play
- I really really don't like the way the PC is written
- obtuse to a fault
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
I think is fine. Much better than the FO4's monologue.
True. Unarmed is the most broken combat skill in the game. But i still find it, funny.
All depends. Big Guns and Energy Weapons suck ass on both first games.
The Chosen One? It's pretty badass coming from a tribal village.
Well, i never liked the Enclave plot too. But i found funny killing the President with a critical kick in his head.
But anyways, enough about Fallout 4.
- Joined
- May 25, 2024
Even as an apologist for it (I think it has a fun open world loop), yeah, all those criticisms apply far more to F4 than 2. Except maybe balancing?
TheHarbinger
kiwifarms.net
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- Mar 22, 2022
Every Fallout is imbalanced in some ways. Things like Speech or Jury Rigging are ridiculous in New Vegas. You can't lose a conversation and you can repair power armor with a cloth t-shirt. And Boone and ED-E are vastly superior to the other companions. Very few games are ever really balanced. Lots of RPGs or fighting games have downright broken mechanics or unintended design choices. Speed runners figure out ways to exploit and break games all of the time.
If there were fewer wikis and guides pointing this stuff out there would not be as many complains probably either.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2024
Maybe I should reiterate what I mean by these, since people seem to be getting the wrong thing out of them:
- By worst intro, I don't mean the ingame video that plays before gameplay, I don't take issue with that. I mean more so the tutorial and first town, and how the game is set up. I think forcing the player into melee/unarmed early game is too punishing, and I think not having tag items like fallout 1 (which were also flawed, but the idea was nice) is not great either.
- By poorly balanced, I just mean the game overall:
- Enemies regardless of location are spongy, and often have far better gear than you could ever possibly acquire at that point. It has the same problem FO1 does where combat only really becomes fun/fair once you reach the mid/ate point of the game. Adding onto this random encounters are basically guaranteed instakills and has oblivion tier leveling, and I don't believe "use outdoorsman" is a good solution to this.
- Perks are abhorrent and only a small handful have any application, though this was also an issue with FO1.
- Equipment wise the game has the same issue as FO1 where big guns and energy weapons are not viable options until very late game, and by then you are skipping to the top tier of those respective equipment types because you have more than enough money to spare.
- Fallout 2 doesn't really have "progression" in my eyes, if I had to compare it it feels closest to how in Morrowind you have that event horizon where you just become OP, and I honestly don't think of that as good design.
- With regardless to the way the PC is written, I don't take issue with their background as being a tribal or more "worldly" compared to the other tribals (besides being the descendant of the vault dweller) My issue really is just the dialogue. Saying Fallout 2 is filled with references is beating a dead horse, and I don't think I need to explain why most of those suck. I just hate how dialogue feels railroaded, and most conversations are just picking one singular option. I don't think Fallout 2 is poorly written lore wise or NPC dialogue wise, I just mostly take issue with the PC dialogue and the references.
- I'm retarded and should've used another word besides obtuse. What I really mean is I think Fallout 2 is too vague about important gameplay things. For example: skill items to my knowledge do not display how much they improve your skill when being used, I think there are just too many "noob traps" and I find myself using the wiki more than I would like.
- I think the game has too high skills/speech requirements for quests, and I really don't like how most companions require positive or near positive karma.
- TL
R Fallout 2 suffers from all the issues I think Fallout 1 suffers from, but instead of fixing them, they're just compounded heavily.Secondly, for the record, I think me going out of my way to say I think FO2 is the worst mainline title probably implies some thing that aren't necessarily true. I don't think FO2 is a bad game, I would say its a 5/10 to 6/10. I just think it's very flawed and those flaws follow you throughout the entire game. Despite my dislike for FO2, I don't think the same for FO1, not to say FO1 is "without sin" but I find it's flaws aren't as apparent as with FO2.
- For future reference, this is how I would rank the games:
1. Fallout NV
2. Fallout 1 / Fallout 3 (equal)
3. Fallout 4
4. Fallout 2
- Joined
- May 25, 2024
No, I understood what you meant, no one is going to bat for the Temple of Trials.
That's the real problem because I love stuff just in the world where it ought to be. "Progression" is wholly artificial and cheapens the authenticity of the world in question, if you can get the cool "end game" gear in the first 10 minutes by game knowledge, why shouldn't you? For Morrowind I know how to get a daedric katana for free in the first 20 minutes of the game, then replace it with a straight upgrade in the first 40. I don't always do it, but I can because the game runs on a consistent logic. I am not arbitrarily level-gated for Goldbrand. If I can swim to the shrine, gather the money, and get to the sculptor, I can get the best one-handed sword in the game (barring Eltonbrand) without much hassle. I wish Fallout was MORE like that than less.
The only differences between Fo2 and Fo4 (besides the obvious story directions) is that Fo4 has gunplay made by Id and Fo2 is an actual RPG despite the narrow band of starting options.
I'm not saying you're wrong, i'm just saying that you may be letting your opinions of the genres play the deciding factor between ranking the two. or outright nostalgia if you're sufficiently new.
That, or it's not a Fallout game ranking, it's a ranking of games in the Fallout franchise, in which case i suggest reloading a save prior to your last level up and picking anything but Confirmed Bachelor.
On the topic of 'Enclave Plotline', with the fucking required inoculation for the Curling-13 strain, there was no reason to go full retard on a fucking Control Vault and descendants. It definitely could have used some work.
Balancing is out of whack too, even further than the effortmeme above outlined
-Half your level ups are burned on crafting perks (some item modifications CANNOT drop from enemies and rolling the ones you can get is prohibitively time-consuming in an attempt to manifest looter-shooter) or on perks for gathering trash for crafting which also end up crafting perks for DLC items half the time
-Two thirds of the remainder has to be dumped into your weapon perk of choice, which spikes damage to insane levels unless playing Survival (where you can compensate by becoming the world's strongest Nuka-Cola addict- chug 250 bottles, never sleep again) and makes swapping to a different weapon type basically impossible without grinding your face off
-The final portion is spent on useless perks or things that only affect the dogshit implementation of VATS the game has- directly or through the crit banking system- which i don't need to elaborate on how terrible THAT is
-Enemies are either wax paper or walls of titanium, depending on your current level, due to how level-scaled damage works effectively closing off sections of the world from boredom or instadeath. see also attempts-to-manifest-looter-shooter
-Power armor is the only thing with Condition and i am still very angry about this, also fusion cores are retarded and should not have been both fuel for them AND ammo for the gatling laser replacement- even if it IS fun to delete the metal shell off a tin can, getting your own obliterated when it's roughly 5 Sierra Madre Vault Loots to repair is infuriating
I could go on but we'd be here for hours.
- Joined
- Mar 20, 2021
As a Fallout 4 apologist, why are you talking about fallout 4?
Just because it poorly ripped off the "you're a hero, and you have to leave" line doesn't put Todd's game in the same weight class as the OG.
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- Oct 7, 2019
True. And isn't the same context as the first game.
Still, the atmosphere prevails.
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- Nov 25, 2024
It has nothing to do with that but ok.
why does everything have to be a comparison game? I'm talking strictly about fallout 2, and in relation to fallout 1, the only game that could've possibly been a reference for that. Fallout 4 has no meaning to this conversation, it has no impact on 2's shortcomings.
I don't min max if that's what your getting at. I pick special stats and perks based off what fits the character I play, you know those titles on the vigor tester? Yeah I actually follow those.
I just don't like how in Fallout 2 (and 1 to an extent) you have to pick certain skills or special if you don't want to suffer the entire game. Agility is pretty much a hard requirement if you actually want to stand a chance. That's not even getting into skills. I'm not getting on Fallout 2 for being "hard", but I don't think it's hard, I just think it's extremely frustrating.
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2023
You know, I just watched Skill Up talk about how he thinks Fallout 3 is one of the best sequels of all time, right up there with Diablo 2 and Half-Life 2. That is to say, he thinks that borderline tech demo is a much better game in every way over what many consider one of, if not the best CRPG of all time, so I guess you are in that category too. For reference, Skill Up is a retard who spends half his reviews gushing over pretty graphics, thinks Dad of War(201
is a "generation defining game" and was too stupid to notice there is a weight limit in Stalker 2 so he spend most of the game encumbered and complained about it. I see no reason to suspect you're any different, but let's just go over your points really quick anyways, for shits and giggles:>Worst Intro
The starting dungeon is pretty tedious and unnecessary, but at least it's over in about 10-15 minutes. It would be better if it took more builds into mind other than just melee/unarmed and speech but it is what it is, Interplay literally forced Black Isle to make this. On the other hand, the early game is one of the strongest once you leave Arroyo so it more than makes up for it. Fallout 3 won't even let you explore the open world until an hour+ in, sure the childhood tutorial is fun the first time around but I have never, ever repeated it(other than when I played TTW for the first time), I made a save right outside the Vault 101 door and I had it since I got the game in 2008, there is zero reason to ever repeat the tutorial again. So, while not the worst intro, Fallout 3 is easily the most tedious one, Fallout 4 also tries to be "cinematic" but that one is at least over and done with very quickly just like Fallout 2(speaking of which, the radroach vault is equally as tedious as The Temple of Trials and you don't even get to talk your way out of it like in Fallout 2 because build variety doesn't exist in Fallout 4, since it is not an RPG).
>Poorly Balanced
lmfao, this nigger is talking about balance in a Fallout game. Let me put it this way: it is not really fun to play around with a spear for the first couple of hours in the game, maybe getting your hands on a shitty handgun somewhere at best, but at least it keeps players on their toes and makes the game hard. It also sucks that Energy Weapon and Big Gun users are screwed, but by the time you head to New Reno, ie about the midway, you should be fine, there is a Laser Pistol for the former and LSW/M60/Rocket Launcher for the latter and on the way to Reno you could encounter bandits with Flamers too. On the other hand, Fallout 4 gives you a suit of Power Armor and a minigun within the first 15 minutes of the game, and because of that they both suck dick. Todd found out how to make what used to be end game gear suck, that just about says it all. I am being generous here too, today if you buy Fallout 4, it comes with all sorts of Creation Club slop that completely breaks what little balance the game had at launch over it's knee and gives players OP guns right off the bat, complete with map markers on where to get them too. You are lucky I am even giving that game benefit of the doubt, Fallout 2 never comes close to being this bad even at worst of times.
>Extremely Restrictive on What Character You Play
Only within the first couple of hours in the game, after that it is the LEAST restrictive game and lets you be pretty much whomever you want to be. This right here says to me you never, ever played the game to the end, or at least only played it as a generic "dude with a gun" build like you were playing a Toddout game. Speaking of which, pacifist runs are possible in 1/2/New Vegas, they are impossible in 3/4 and Speech is borderline useless in 4 except for getting more money(which is what Barter used to be for). This right here says it all, your problems are aimed at Fallout 4 but you cope about it since you got filtered out by 2(lol). It boggles the mind how modern tourists within the fandom cannot make builds for shit or roleplay, they just play the games like a really shitty FPS, or I guess they can't play the older isometric titles at all in this case.
>I Really Don't Like the Way the PC is Written
Literally just a "you" problem, and what kind of womanly, emotionally driven non-problem that is? PC is a blank state, being a tribal at least spices things up since almost every other game has you be a stale bread, fish out of water Vault Dweller. Chosen One is also arguably the most badass protagonist in the series, alongside The Courier maybe, go ahead and tell me how Todd's games with Emil's writing have better protagonists, especially when one of them literally has a "sarcasm" option in almost every conversation.
>Obtuse to a Fault
I don't even know what that means, if you mean glitchy and janky, that's literally every Fallout game ever made. New Vegas is arguably even worse but everyone loves that game. If you mean that the game doesn't hold your hand, yeah, RPGs back then didn't. Fallout 1 and 2 are actually one of the more accessible games of their kind, but again, you wouldn't know anything about that because a tourist like you never played any of them, you're a console shitter at heart and the reason we have yellow paint in games today.
So, once again, another day and another Fallout 2 detractor finds no compelling arguments to make his case. Color me shocked, a thread which has unironic TV show fans finds themselves too dense to beat a game that thousands of slavic children used to beat, since finishing Fallout 2 is almost a rite of passage in Eastern Europe, hence why the game is so popular there. Not that anyone here would know anything about that, being the casual western tourists that posters here are, but I do find it funny that a game children can easily beat causes so many problems for grown-ass adults.
Tough enemies humbling you was intended and they stop being "spongy" once you take their guns off of them. Actually, the game has the exact opposite problem and the enemies are TOO easy past a certain point, aside from the likes of Enclave or Wanamingos and other high-end threats that will always pose some sort of challenge, but most human enemies cease to be a threat before the middle of the game. See, this right here tells me you were filtered out on the way to Vault City/Modoc everytime because you got into a Highwayman encounter and couldn't just drop them with your crappy 10mm Pistol like you could in a Toddout game. Again, children can get past them, and if they are so tough you would think running away would be a safer bet, but how else are you going to get that sweet XP if you don't shoot everything in sight? This right here is a good example of why Todd hands out Power Armor within the first 15 minutes of his games, and why something like Fallout 76 even exists at all, the newer fanbase is so low IQ that even a remotely dangerous encounter that isn't telegraphed(ie deathclaws and cazadores outside Goodsprings in New Vegas) make the players shit themselves, give up and quit the game, only to rage about it online later. Better to just make a GAAS always online looter shooter grind-a-thon with no story and no RPG elements if this is how most players are going to play their games, anyways.
Every single area has an important bit of loot in it that good players will know about and race to get, no location is wasted. Redding might seem like a wash of a location, but it is also where one can find a Metal Armor MK2 or G11 early on, ditto with Leather Armor MK 2 and Leather Jacket MK2 in Modoc or Laser Pistols in New Reno. Again, you didn't play the game, how Fallout 2 deals out gear is actually very well designed, even if it doesn't do a good job handing out Energy/Big Guns early enough, something Obsidian fixed with New Vegas.
And there we have it, "the game is too hard
"Please, just play something else. It's clear you're too stupid to play a real RPG so you have to play fake-action console "RPGs" instead, nothing wrong with that btw but it's clear you're out of your element here.
Also, "require good karma", what the fuck are you talking about? It is borderline impossible to get bad karma in Fallout 2 since the game relies so heavily on choices and reputation instead, how in the world did you get enough bad karma for one of them to tell you to fuck off? Did you actually go full murder hobo and kill entire towns? Become a child killer? Try as I might, in 30 years I have never had any companions tell me I am too evil and I had some pretty horrible characters over the years too. Maybe your CHR is too low, since a lot of people make that a dump stat for whatever reason, if you don't have at least 2 CHR you can never, ever have a companion.
I don't see why you're surprised, this guy is the definition of a Fallout 3 baby that has no clue what the franchise is actually about. Or what a real RPG is supposed to look like, for that matter. Not surprising, considering there is several of his kind in this thread. They must have gotten dumber over the years too, I remember the early tourists in the late 2000s/early 2010s making far more convincing arguments that Toddslop is better, ack-stually.
You don't, you can literally make any build you want and make it work. You're a low IQ retard that always makes the same build and always goes murder hobo on everything because Bethesda games conditioned you that this is the only build you are allowed to make in their games. This is a (You) problem, and you only suffer because you don't know how to play the game, Fallout 1/2 were designed so that you can make the weirdest, most obtuse builds and still finish the game, but you strike me as the sort who still tries stabbing every bug in The Temple of Trials even without Melee Weapons skills tagged, so why am I even wasting my breath here?
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- Jun 26, 2024
the issue with older games in general is the jank so zoomers get mad about le microtransactions or whatever only play cod, really FO4 is at least passable but if someone made a indie game like it it would be getting 10s
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- Nov 25, 2024
stopped reading there tourist.
I guess? I think Jank is too vague of a word and too much of a blanket statement. If by jank you mean Fallout 2 is buggy, then well I don't know if I'd agree, I haven't really encountered any game breaking or quest breaking bugs like I did with Fallout NV. If you mean jank as in odd design choices than yeah absolutely.
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- Joined
- Sep 27, 2023
If you knew how to read, you wouldn't have any problems playing Fallout 2, since the game explains pretty much everything you need to know properly. Again, this is a "you" problem, and by you I mean a Fallout 3 baby tourist low IQ problem nobody else has. Also, your arguments are retarded and poorly presented, but I already explained why.
What makes Fallout 4 "passable" in any way? It is easily the most tedious game to play out of the mainline series, at best you get a really shitty FPS with crafting mechanics and no RPG elements. Is this really the low bar people are willing to accept these days? Little wonder that most don't make it to Vault City in Fallout 2, assuming they even play the game at all.
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2024
