Fallout series

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I know 76 was made by Bethesda's B-team, but has there been some kind of brain-drain or turnover in Bethesda Corporate or ZeniMax? Someone has to be making these consistently stupid and baffling decisions, and I would like to know who they are and how the fuck they got their job. Like with the whole game journalist thing, this was an industry built by people who genuinely loved it but has become infected and infested by people who seem to legitimately hate it and see it as nothing but a stepping stone to something else. Has everyone who liked making video games left Bethesda, leaving only some Harvard grads bitter they couldn't get a position at JP Morgan but think they know how to squeeze water from a stone like 76?
 
Furina said:
I know 76 was made by Bethesda's B-team, but has there been some kind of brain-drain or turnover in Bethesda Corporate or ZeniMax? Someone has to be making these consistently stupid and baffling decisions, and I would like to know who they are and how the fuck they got their job. Like with the whole game journalist thing, this was an industry built by people who genuinely loved it but has become infected and infested by people who seem to legitimately hate it and see it as nothing but a stepping stone to something else. Has everyone who liked making video games left Bethesda, leaving only some Harvard grads bitter they couldn't get a position at JP Morgan but think they know how to squeeze water from a stone like 76?
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Todd Howard and Pete Hines being promoted above their stations feel like the issue, in all honesty.

The rot seems to start around Oblivion when they first tried DLC (2.99 horse armour anyone?) that they later had to bundle for free into the expansion pack the Nine Divines. It's like Todd lets, or is instrumental in, letting people squeeze every dime out of every game.

The second is... this is how Zenimax made two of their games not just profitable, but hilariously so.

TESO was a complete flop and failure, but when it went F2P they simply offered cosmetics and top ups to the game, and then charged for the larger expansions only. This turned TESO into a millstone to something that's basically helping keep the lights on for Zenimax (rumoured to be making them an estimated $500m a year, or some other insane figure)

So they repeated the trick again with Fallout 4 and the store on there and once again it worked especially as for an enormous chunk of its playerbase (Xbox and PS4) they had to use this storefront exclusively to do any modding to the game whatsoever.

Once again, it turned a decently performing game into a money-printing machine.

The issue is F76 just assumes there's no tolerance level to this. Stuff that, at most, should be $2-3 as it was over on Fallout 4 is now $15-25 for what is basically reskins and shitty emote packs. This isn't working out as well as it should because fuck you if you think I'm paying $24 for this bullshit.

Fish rot from the head, and Howard and Hines are in charge of this increasing fucking clown circus.
 
Don't forget that Fallout 4 was the absolute buggiest game Bethesda made to that point, and that there are bugs that exist in F76 that still exist in Fallout 4 to this day. I mean, no counted reload? New Vegas had it so I know it isn't a limitation of the engine. Hell, fuckin' Half Life had counted bullet reload, and that game's old enough to drink!

And what I don't get is that the rumor going around is that Zenimax wants to go public, but isn't it obvious to investors that this corporate policy of charging $60 for a half finished game and then charging extra for the fun bits isn't working? EA lost, what, $4 billion dollars? Ubisoft issued a don't panic letter to investors, and Activison-Blizzard are getting nastygrams from Clowngress for Hong Kong. Or maybe that's their strategy. Zenimax is gonna tell potential investors that "Hey, all these big companies are losing money; we're the only ones that are making money!" (and by making money I mean losing the least money, the "cleanest dirty shirt" if you will).

At the rate Bugthesda's been fuckin' up, I would not be surprised at the next E3, Todd Howard is going to walk onstage with his lil Tunnel Snake peeking out of his jeans, and he's gonna say something like "LOL you see this dick, you can suck it!"
 
NV had bullet reload but from what I heard it was really hard to implement and pretty buggy.
 
You know, its sad. Bethesda used to be so respected.
We could look over the bugs as long they werent game breaking/crashing (the body exploding when you shoot the leg? Come on, thats impossible to hate), there were a certain charm to them.

But now, with The Outer Worlds? Obisidian truly is building itself to be the next Old Bethesda, especially now they have microsoft backing them up, they can tell grander stories in grander gaming genres and formats.

And like most empires, their fall comes not from things beyond their control but from their own god damn hubris.
 
Whats your favorite side quest from the F3?
F3 has quite a decent number of memorable side quests (cant say the same about F4 tho, I need to replay it...which I hadnt since it launched years ago...gesh).

But Im rather split between Agatha's Song and The Replicant Man
Agatha because come on, you are helping a sweet old lady bring actually decent music (which is so rare that she actually uses her songs as payment for traders) by bringing her whats possibly the last pre-war violin in existence. I also like that the game allows you to be an asshole and sell it but it actually allows you to change your mind and buy it back (even the game thinks you are a dick and it offers a chance to redeem yourself) I did enjoy that variety of options. Exploring vaults is always one of my pleasures in Fallout games, what did Vault Tec do to this vault and how bad it went? Lets find oooout! *runs inside*. Besides, as a guy who loves violin music, her radio is a must when I want to take a break from GNR and Enclave Radio.

The Replicant Man is how...well, interesting it was, think about it. One thing is to play this mission before and then after F4 and you see how much its established and foreshadowed. The institute, synths and the railway are introduced, tho we wouldnt get to proper know them better until 4 (if the wait was worth it is up to you). Also I remember how accidentally you can start that quest (like I did). I did like the journey of the synth wishing to assume a human identity to the point it desired its memories to be erased to make sure it remains in character. It also relates to the origins of Rivet City, having to have you find him in its sunk section (which can already be useful for the Survival Guide question, another cool sidequest). I enjoyed how they were already Institute members looking for him and trying to hide the fact its a freaking synth and tech that the capital wasteland hasnt seen before. Also the railroad already knows The Lone Wanderer may be the key to either save or expose the synth so they warn it and offer an alternative, to fake its "death". Besides, Harkness (the synth's new identity), the guard of Rivet City even drops a Blade Runner nod ("All those runners I've killed...") so that was cool. I usually expose the truth to Harkness and "fuse" both his old and new identities (Tho Harkness remain the dominant one as he actually felt a sense of duty to protect the people in Rivet City, which was pretty heartwarming)...oh and getting his unique plasma rifle that absolutely annihilates early game + already some points in laser weapons...

What are your thoughts and opinions?
 
The handsome tard said:
Whats your favorite side quest from the F3?
F3 has quite a decent number of memorable side quests (cant say the same about F4 tho, I need to replay it...which I hadnt since it launched years ago...gesh).

But Im rather split between Agatha's Song and The Replicant Man
Agatha because come on, you are helping a sweet old lady bring actually decent music (which is so rare that she actually uses her songs as payment for traders) by bringing her whats possibly the last pre-war violin in existence. I also like that the game allows you to be an asshole and sell it but it actually allows you to change your mind and buy it back (even the game thinks you are a dick and it offers a chance to redeem yourself) I did enjoy that variety of options. Exploring vaults is always one of my pleasures in Fallout games, what did Vault Tec do to this vault and how bad it went? Lets find oooout! *runs inside*. Besides, as a guy who loves violin music, her radio is a must when I want to take a break from GNR and Enclave Radio.

The Replicant Man is how...well, interesting it was, think about it. One thing is to play this mission before and then after F4 and you see how much its established and foreshadowed. The institute, synths and the railway are introduced, tho we wouldnt get to proper know them better until 4 (if the wait was worth it is up to you). Also I remember how accidentally you can start that quest (like I did). I did like the journey of the synth wishing to assume a human identity to the point it desired its memories to be erased to make sure it remains in character. It also relates to the origins of Rivet City, having to have you find him in its sunk section (which can already be useful for the Survival Guide question, another cool sidequest). I enjoyed how they were already Institute members looking for him and trying to hide the fact its a freaking synth and tech that the capital wasteland hasnt seen before. Also the railroad already knows The Lone Wanderer may be the key to either save or expose the synth so they warn it and offer an alternative, to fake its "death". Besides, Harkness (the synth's new identity), the guard of Rivet City even drops a Blade Runner nod ("All those runners I've killed...") so that was cool. I usually expose the truth to Harkness and "fuse" both his old and new identities (Tho Harkness remain the dominant one as he actually felt a sense of duty to protect the people in Rivet City, which was pretty heartwarming)...oh and getting his unique plasma rifle that absolutely annihilates early game + already some points in laser weapons...

What are your thoughts and opinions?
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Kill yourself, cuck.
 
this shit will never not annoy me

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I never got the feeling you had to sympathize with Caesar's Legion. What they do is morally unsound, but there is a sense of logic to what they do. It is a very cold and inhumane kind of logic, but the entire ideology built an empire in the past. And I imagine in the eyes of some versions of the Courier, in order to bring stability to the Wasteland, you got to do what you feel "is best" for the people of the Wasteland.

Really all of the factions in New Vegas had major pros and cons. You had very good reasons to support and not support each faction. None of them were really "the good guys". That's what helped the game stand the test of time and made it so fondly remembered by people.

I think the biggest problem with a lot of people is that they like to project their personal beliefs and values into the game and really aren't able to separate themselves from it and just try and look at things from the perspective of someone in a world where civilization as we know it died and is trying to rebuild itself. No, clearly if you side with Caesar's Legion, you are clearly a bad person IRL and not someone who is simply playing a video game set in a fictional world.
 
Personally I've always felt Caesar's Legion was the most likely to achieve it's goal of uniteing the Wasteland because NCR was run by merchants only interested in enriching themselves and Mr. House/the Courier are only able to effectively administrate a city-state at best. The whole tragic aspect of Caesar leading a barbaric horde that did horrible shit and forcefully created a monoculture but he knew would be completely unable to exist cohesively without him is actually pretty solid.
 
samuraicrack said:
this shit will never not annoy me

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Wow that is really stupid. Obviously a state that crucifies and literally annihilates anyone who raids their lands should be like the inner circles of hell when your visiting. I still think that one of the best pieces of world building ever made was the little fact that because there are virtually no taxes or caravan raiding in Caesar's territory traders love it and can make the big caps there. It really makes the world feel real and logical when you hear that.
 
You can obviously have an opinion about Ceaser's Legion and I somewhat agree that the game even kind of made hard to get into unless you are purposedly seeking to join them (like the lack of Legion companions), besides, it doesnt help other missions show that a lot of its members didnt actually give a fuck to Ceaser and the cause and were just actively seeking power over others.
But you see, its still a fucking game at the end of the day, its fiction. If you feeling rotten, you can join them, I love that the game gives you the option to be the worst there is. Thats why FNV is still the best.
 
The handsome tard said:
You can obviously have an opinion about Ceaser's Legion and I somewhat agree that the game even kind of made hard to get into unless you are purposely seeking to join them (like the lack of Legion companions), besides, it doesn't help other missions show that a lot of its members didn't actually give a fuck to Ceaser and the cause and were just actively seeking power over others.
But you see, its still a fucking game at the end of the day, its fiction. If you feeling rotten, you can join them, I love that the game gives you the option to be the worst there is. Thats why FNV is still the best.
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Well the lack of "stuff" (like companions) is because of the time crunch that was given to Obsidian. The Legion was supposed to be way more fleshed out and developed like the NCR, but they just didn't have the time. I think they made the right choice fleshing the NCR out more though mainly because you cant half ass them since they were in F2 and the old heads would get assblasted.

But yeah I agree they are lacking in juice worth the squeeze you could say. Hell Caesar gives you the best thing you can get from the faction for free, the equivalent of a college class lecture on culture and politics in the apocalypse, you don't even have to be in the best of terms with the Legion to get that.
 
samuraicrack said:
this shit will never not annoy me

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This is just upsetting. I guess his 90s edginess has worn off. The magic is gone.

Oddjob OTP said:
Personally I've always felt Caesar's Legion was the most likely to achieve it's goal of uniteing the Wasteland because NCR was run by merchants only interested in enriching themselves and Mr. House/the Courier are only able to effectively administrate a city-state at best. The whole tragic aspect of Caesar leading a barbaric horde that did horrible shit and forcefully created a monoculture but he knew would be completely unable to exist cohesively without him is actually pretty solid.
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I think the NCR has the best chance for the reasons that Caesar describes.

The tragedy of Caesar's Legion is that the NCR is more Roman in its mindset. Caesar compares the NCR to Carthage but I compare Caesar's Legion to the Germanic Cimbri invaders that forced Rome to finally replace its levies with professional soldiers. Caesar's legionaries aren't thinking about retiring to be freeman but rather about dying in battle as young men - that is Germanic, not Roman.

I think Caesar's Hegelian view hints towards what I think happens - the NCR develops a professional army and loses its ideals after the clash with Caesar. Marius and Sulla defeating the Cimbri lead to soldiers becoming loyal to their generals instead of the state. The same happens to the NCR but it is made worse by the fact that the soldiers know that competent and popular generals like Shu are being sidelined by a ruling faction of incompetent generals. Soldiers rebel against the state and place these good men in power - this justifies dictatorship and solves no problems.

Hanlon has the exact same Hegelian view as Caesar. For Hanlon defeating Caesar may save the NCR but it will kill the republic by justifying empire. Instead of developing its economy to serve the people, the NCR/Rome simply expanded its territory to get taxes to make up for its inefficiencies and settle its poor.

You don't really ever see characters take wider views of history in gaming stories.
 
Slap47 said:
This is just upsetting. I guess his 90s edginess has worn off. The magic is gone.



I think the NCR has the best chance for the reasons that Caesar describes.

The tragedy of Caesar's Legion is that the NCR is more Roman in its mindset. Caesar compares the NCR to Carthage but I compare Caesar's Legion to the Germanic Cimbri invaders that forced Rome to finally replace its levies with professional soldiers. Caesar's legionaries aren't thinking about retiring to be freeman but rather about dying in battle as young men - that is Germanic, not Roman.

I think Caesar's Hegelian view hints towards what I think happens - the NCR develops a professional army and loses its ideals after the clash with Caesar. Marius and Sulla defeating the Cimbri lead to soldiers becoming loyal to their generals instead of the state. The same happens to the NCR but it is made worse by the fact that the soldiers know that competent and popular generals like Shu are being sidelined by a ruling faction of incompetent generals. Soldiers rebel against the state and place these good men in power - this justifies dictatorship and solves no problems.

Hanlon has the exact same Hegelian view as Caesar. For Hanlon defeating Caesar may save the NCR but it will kill the republic by justifying empire. Instead of developing its economy to serve the people, the NCR/Rome simply expanded its territory to get taxes to make up for its inefficiencies and settle its poor.

You don't really ever see characters take wider views of history in gaming stories.
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That's fascinating, but REEEEEEE CAESAR IS PROBLEMATIC.
 
I'm no big fan of Caesar and his Legion but they brought a level of security and stability to his territories. Look at the wasteland when left to its own devices. Monsters roam free and take over trade routes and raiders swarm the people trying to make an honest living. The Legion created a safe haven from the anarchy that plagues the world and understandably it took a lot of blood and sweat to do so. The heavy handed methods caused suffering but they created security and curbed corruption. Compare that to the NCR who have trouble securing their territories and where caravans can murder each other to remove competition because they know the NCR will never find out.

You don't have to like the Legion's methods but you can see that they work. Now its just a matter of asking how much are you willing to sacrifice for security in this world of cannibals and literal monsters.
 
You guys are thinking too hard, the best form of goverment in FNV is the State of Utobitha.
 
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