Fallout series

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I'll bite:
1. Combat has always been a Bethesda weak-point. In this particular instance, this is a fault with the engine turned over to Obsidian by Bethesda. It's servicable and not neccessarily the main appeal of the games.
2. A linear world that is far more interesting and better designed than the messy and and unfocused world design of Fallout 3 and 4.
3. Even if you consider it "boring", New Vegas has a sensible plot; something that both Fallout 3 and 4 lack.
4. Literally every single Bethesda game made since Arena
 
2>1>NV>3>4>Tactics>BoS>76
76 is last because it has really nothing, and its online only.
I know that the OP tried to have the most unpopular opinion, but here comes mine.

Fallout 2 is way too schlocky and packed full of 80's and 90's references to be relevant and taken seriously today, where as Fallout 1 is a somber masterpiece about how human nature damns us to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors.
 
2>1>NV>3>4>Tactics>BoS>76
76 is last because it has really nothing, and its online only.
Why would you put 1 over New Vegas? I like the setting, it feels the most pure when it comes to Cain's original intention, but it's definitely not as well-rounded as New Vegas.

Fallout 2 is way too schlocky and packed full of 80's and 90's references to be relevant and taken seriously today, where as Fallout 1 is a somber masterpiece about how human nature damns us to repeat the mistakes of our ancestors.
I have no problem taking 2 seriously. 1 had direct line references to the 1989 Batman movie, a line where you directly say "all quiet on the western front", a random encounter with the TARDIS, a bounty hunter directly named after Avellone, everything about Loxley, a "they killed Kenny" line, and fucking Tool posters.
 
Meh, it's late and I'm mildly drunk. I'll spew my opinions.

I love New Vegas. It is objectively an awesome game with a ton of great writing, supported by well-voiced characters and a deep, involving story-line. I love it and I love all the DLC. I still replay the game at least once every few years.

But it's also a completely broken mess. A lot of this is to do with the rushed development time and the terrible engine, but it also creates a deep disconnect between the player and the consequences of their actions. A truly great RPG is able to convince me to play it like I would in real life. I care about the characters and the world enough to assign them a level of moral value, and I experience genuine sadness or other emotions when bad things happen to them.

New Vegas on the other hand is a literal clown world. Despite enjoying its writing, I feel no connection with the characters because the game is fundamentally incapable of immersing me in its world. No matter how much emotional dialogue a character has, there is nothing that bridges the gap between me and the machine. In Mass Effect, the performances are enough for me to care about the characters. In Baldur's Gate, the voice-work and writing is passionate and sincere enough that a part of me would experience genuine distress if I picked choices that negatively affected the characters whose moralities and personalities I feel empathy for.

Not so in New Vegas or any Bethesda RPG, where I happily devolve into a spree-killer who merrily slaughters every single person she comes across that doesn't give out quests or unique dialogue. It doesn't matter if they die, because they're just scripts attached to a render, and the more relevant characters won't react to their deaths anyway. Everything is so completely artificial and robotic that there is nothing there that tugs my heart-strings or persuades me to roleplay as the kind of individual I am in real life. That's where NV fails, and will always fail.
 
Why would you put 1 over New Vegas? I like the setting, it feels the most pure when it comes to Cain's original intention, but it's definitely not as well-rounded as New Vegas.
I like the setting and story more. New Vegas feels rushed around the end, the Strip feels dead even though they make it sound like the greatest thing ever, and the battle of Hover damn was under welming when it was hyped up through out the game.But that wasn't really Obsidians fault they were about to hit their dead line, and they actually had more planed for the game.
So friendly reminder every time you play New Vega you play an incomplete game that is still better than any thing Bethesda can make.
 
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Meh, it's late and I'm mildly drunk. I'll spew my opinions.

I love New Vegas. It is objectively an awesome game with a ton of great writing, supported by well-voiced characters and a deep, involving story-line. I love it and I love all the DLC. I still replay the game at least once every few years.

But it's also a completely broken mess. A lot of this is to do with the rushed development time and the terrible engine, but it also creates a deep disconnect between the player and the consequences of their actions. A truly great RPG is able to convince me to play it like I would in real life. I care about the characters and the world enough to assign them a level of moral value, and I experience genuine sadness or other emotions when bad things happen to them.

New Vegas on the other hand is a literal clown world. Despite enjoying its writing, I feel no connection with the characters because the game is fundamentally incapable of immersing me in its world. No matter how much emotional dialogue a character has, there is nothing that bridges the gap between me and the machine. In Mass Effect, the performances are enough for me to care about the characters. In Baldur's Gate, the voice-work and writing is passionate and sincere enough that a part of me would experience genuine distress if I picked choices that negatively affected the characters whose moralities and personalities I feel empathy for.

Not so in New Vegas or any Bethesda RPG, where I happily devolve into a spree-killer who merrily slaughters every single person she comes across that doesn't give out quests or unique dialogue. It doesn't matter if they die, because they're just scripts attached to a render, and the more relevant characters won't react to their deaths anyway. Everything is so completely artificial and robotic that there is nothing there that tugs my heart-strings or persuades me to roleplay as the kind of individual I am in real life. That's where NV fails, and will always fail.
Don't take this as a defense so much as an explanation. I actually like the robotic detachment that New Vegas has. I think that part of the reason I didn't enjoy Fallout 2 as much as 1 was that it carried over a few too many characters from 1 rather than establishing it's own cast. It's this sort of robotic detachment to the characters and world that's particularly interesting. It's an appoach that encourages a different, more detached perspective than an emotional one. This style is also applicable to the Elder Scrolls series, and I think it's neat how the two series are now connected. At the least, this detachment only adds more into the themes of New Vegas specifically; you're just some fucking Courier who wandered into these problems.

I agree that if Obsidian could pull off the emotional angle well, it would make the game overall better. But if they failed, it would've been disastrous like Fallout 4 or 3. I have very little faith that Obsidian could have pulled it off considering that about half of the companions in NV were shitty.
 
Also, I don't even agree with the assertion that New Vegas is that different from games like Mass Effect 2 in terms of investment. I liked the companions in New Vegas. I couldn't ever kill Cass and I've never been able to sell Arcade into slavery. They're that likable. And Lonesome Road made me like a robot who can't speak. Maybe New Vegas feels more detached because you can go off the rails and kill whoever you like, but that's a point to its favor in my eyes. After all, it's an RPG. Mass Effect hand holds you so hard that it sometimes gets annoying, and as the series went on most of the choices you could make boiled down to "nice guy vs complete jackass". Even then, I often never had problems doing renegade interrupts to kill people in hilarious ways, so I couldn't have been too invested. You could reload if you didn't like it, too.
 
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I had a lot more fun playing 1, 2, and Tactics than I did New Vegas. Way to fail to make me care about any character or faction in the game, Bethesda. That said, New Vegas certainly had its moments. Combat was not one of them.
 
I had a lot more fun playing 1, 2, and Tactics than I did New Vegas. Way to fail to make me care about any character or faction in the game, Bethesda. That said, New Vegas certainly had its moments. Combat was not one of them.
Bethesda didn't develop New Vegas.
 
What the ave did you just fucking say about me, you little degenerate? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Praetorian Guard, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Hoover Dam, and I have over 300 confirmed NCR dogtags. I am trained in Legion warfare and I’m the top arena-fighter in the entirety of Caesar's Legion. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over that pip-boy? Think again, dissolute. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of frumentarius across the Mojave Wasteland and your location is being traced right now so you better prepare for the cross, fool. The cross that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, profligate. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of Caesar's Legion and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what Mar's retribution your little “cowardly” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. Degenerates like you belong on a Cross. Ave true to Caesar.
9/10, should've said 'I have access to the entire arsenal of the Legion dropbox'.
So friendly reminder every time you play New Vega you play an incomplete game that is still better than any thing Bethesda can make.
This must've been mentioned in this thread before, but there's a great YouTube channel called 'TriangleCity' which digs through the game files and has interviews with some of the devs on cut content of FNV. It's almost depressing how much better this game would've been with a year or two of extra development.
 
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Also, I don't even agree with the assertion that New Vegas is that different from games like Mass Effect 2 in terms of investment. I liked the companions in New Vegas. I couldn't ever kill Cass and I've never been able to sell Arcade into slavery. They're that likable. And Lonesome Road made me like a robot who can't speak. Maybe New Vegas feels more detached because you can go off the rails and kill whoever you like, but that's a point to its favor in my eyes. After all, it's an RPG. Mass Effect hand holds you so hard that it sometimes gets annoying, and as the series when on most of the choices you could make boiled down to "nice guy vs complete jackass". Even then, I often never had problems doing renegade interrupts to kill people in hilarious ways, so I couldn't have been too invested. You could reload if you didn't like it, too.
I gotta agree. I actually LIKED the characters. I thought Arcade was a good man and I gave a fuck about him and his perspective. Boone's story wrenched at my heart and made me want to kill the legion all the more. Veronica almost made me love her like a dorky little sister, and her story of how she and her lover were ripped apart made me resent the Brotherhood's conservatism. Cass' story intrigued me, and also pissed me off as I couldn't help her kill McLafferty and the Van Graffs without fucking up the investigation.... which didn't stop me from killing each and every one of them in convenient "accidents" once I'd resolved the quests peacefully. God/Dog was legitimately a great fucking character and the "middle ground" solution was insanely satisfying.

Honestly, the follower characters were so well fleshed out they made the companions in Fallout 3 look fucking one dimensional.


I had a lot more fun playing 1, 2, and Tactics than I did New Vegas. Way to fail to make me care about any character or faction in the game, Bethesda. That said, New Vegas certainly had its moments. Combat was not one of them.

The fact that you didn't care about the characters sounds like a personal problem, not a failing on Obsidian's part.
 
Also, I don't even agree with the assertion that New Vegas is that different from games like Mass Effect 2 in terms of investment. I liked the companions in New Vegas. I couldn't ever kill Cass and I've never been able to sell Arcade into slavery. They're that likable. And Lonesome Road made me like a robot who can't speak. Maybe New Vegas feels more detached because you can go off the rails and kill whoever you like, but that's a point to its favor in my eyes. After all, it's an RPG. Mass Effect hand holds you so hard that it sometimes gets annoying, and as the series when on most of the choices you could make boiled down to "nice guy vs complete jackass". Even then, I often never had problems doing renegade interrupts to kill people in hilarious ways, so I couldn't have been too invested. You could reload if you didn't like it, too.

There are exceptions to that rule. I'm mostly referring to the 'regular' NPC's. What I really mean to say is that there's absolutely no narrative consequences for killing everyone you come across who isn't directly involved with the main quest, or a major NPC in their own right. You can kill everyone in Novac, and nobody anywhere else will care. In Fallout 1 and 2, killing people was a very big thing that had immediate and serious ramifications. In the towns where you could go an appreciable murder-spree without consequence, the lore always supported those actions.

The Den for example was a wretched hive with zero law enforcement and a population of slavers and junkies that nobody else really cared about, so killing people there logically didn't have many consequences. I prefer the karma system in this one respect, because it could serve adequately in the role of general reputation meter. There was a sense that your actions were always impacting a broader Wasteland, even in very subtle ways.

While New Vegas does have some of that going on, it's not well-integrated or immersive at all. It's always very basic 'if you shoot X in the face, Y will have one additional line of dialogue, and Z will charge you more for fusion batteries' style cause-and-effect scripting that is transparent for what it is. The isometric games did a much better job of making reactions to your deeds organic and not making it obvious when you've triggered a script prompt.

Another thing is that the gameplay has a ton of issues that take me right out of it. The lack of NPC functionality is a major one, and is something I've come to find Obsidian as a whole has a problem with as well. As mentioned, you can murder every NCR trooper in a base and arrange their corpses right in front of their commander, and he won't even acknowledge them. This total lack of even a concession to reality is what takes me out of the immersive experience hard. You're never penalized unless you do very specific things the game is programmed to consider 'naughty', and those actions are disconnected and deeply unrealistic.

I had a similar experience with Pillars of Eternity. Early on there's a quest where you get to choose between supporting two people who both have a legitimate claim to leadership of the starting town you end up in after the introduction. The sitting lord is a bloodthirsty knight Templar who has been systematically murdering large numbers of his subjects out of a misguided sense of justice. The claimant is a sleazy politician guy who is up front about just being in it for the position. I decided very quickly that I hated the pair of them and didn't want either in charge. So after infiltrating the sitting lord's castle and killing him, I went and collected my reward from the claimant, then killed him as well.

The game, despite touting itself as having an extreme dedication towards the narrative, had no answer to this. I went back to town and chatted with everyone, and nobody even acknowledged my choice. I played for a couple more hours after this, but in the end I just quit. I couldn't get over that basic lack of reaction to my choices that Fallout 1 and 2 would've taken and run with all the way to the endgame.
 
76 is better than new vegas.
Heh, just about...

I would have loved to have been the proverbial fly on the wall for the meeting where Obsidian hashed out the pile of bullshit that would go on to become FNV.

"All right people, we've got to come up with a follow-up to Fallout 3, but without directly copying the haunting "Capital Wasteland" setting of bombed-out, irradiated, Washington D.C. that did so much to establish the post-apocalyptic game world,"

"I know! We can set our game in the Nevada desert; the one place where you'd never be able to tell if a nuclear apocalypse had happened in the first place!"

"I like the way you think, Johnson!"

"Ooh, and we can make every other NPC gay for no reason whatsoever!"

"BRILLIANT!"

Veronica almost made me love her like a dorky little sister, and her story of how she and her lover were ripped apart made me resent the Brotherhood's conservatism.
I was merely left wondering why none of the Brotherhood had yet bothered to put a bullet in her head and leave her scrawny ass for the radroaches.
 
Heh, just about...

I would have loved to have been the proverbial fly on the wall for the meeting where Obsidian hashed out the pile of bullshit that would go on to become FNV.

"All right people, we've got to come up with a follow-up to Fallout 3, but without directly copying the haunting "Capital Wasteland" setting of bombed-out, irradiated, Washington D.C. that did so much to establish the post-apocalyptic game world,"

"I know! We can set our game in the Nevada desert; the one place where you'd never be able to tell if a nuclear apocalypse had happened in the first place!"

"I like the way you think, Johnson!"

"Ooh, and we can make every other NPC gay for no reason whatsoever!"

"BRILLIANT!"

I was merely left wondering why none of the Brotherhood had yet bothered to put a bullet in her head and leave her scrawny ass for the radroaches.
WHOOSH
 
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