Fallout series

[Dom Cruise]

I never understand where the hatred for Bethesda comes from. I played Fallout back at day one. I have as much right to intense Fallout nostalgia as any slavering fanboy and yet, I love the Bethesda games. Yeah New Vegas is better, because of course it is, Obsidian have the advantage of a dev team that's been making RPGs since, well Fallout. The thing is Bethesda have tried to deepen the lore and update a complex genre for modern players whilst still maintaining the overall spirit and aesthetic of the game. Personally I think they've done a fair job. Yeah Fallout 76 isn't great, but it only suffers from the same problems a lot of online multiplayer games do these days. Ultimately there were a lot of fates for Fallout worse than Bethesda.

FO3 is a solid game but it is dumbed down over 1 and 2, the writing isn't as good, the RPG mechanics aren't as deep, I played 3 first and thought it was great, but after having since played 1 and 2 multiple times I can see why some fans weren't pleased.

The trouble with FO4 is the base building and crafting mechanics, this is a matter of personal taste but I just find that shit tedious, I'd much rather have well crafted game environments than one you build yourself, 4 has its moments but it's bogged down by that stuff as well as the writing continuing to be bland.

And of course 76 is a busted ass mess.

Bethesda's take on the franchise isn't worthless but they've really screwed it up in recent years.

A lot of it just comes down to writing, something that too often gets lost in the shuffle during game development, it's embarrassing that Bethesda thought going back to the bland writing in 4 was acceptable after NV raised the bar.

 

[Syaoran Li]

New Vegas will always be the best Fallout in my opinion, but I don't really get the hate that Fallout 3 gets these days. Don't get me wrong, Fallout 4 was a flawed mess in its own right and Fallout 76 is still an unmitigated disaster, but Fallout 3 is still a good game.

A lot of people like to retroactively pinpoint Fallout 3 as the game where the series "jumped the shark", and that's mainly because of both the greatness of New Vegas combined with the lackluster Fallout 4 and the downright god-awful Fallout 76.

Fallout 3 is flawed in some ways, and you could say that a lot of the issues with Bethesda's later Fallout games got their start with that title, but keep in mind the context of the time the game came out in.

Before Fallout 3, the Fallout franchise was a relatively obscure cult classic at best. It still had a lot of respect among fans of old-school CRPG's, but it was a dead series in a largely dead sub-genre, and Bethesda brought it back and made it a household name.

Even in 2008, a turn-based isometric RPG like Fallout 1 and 2 was simply not viable and bear in mind that Bethesda in 2008 wasn't the monstrous trainwreck of a company they became after Skyrim.

Fallout 3 isn't anywhere near as good as New Vegas or the early Fallout games, but it's still a great game in the grand scheme of things.

New Vegas was really the best of both worlds in my opinion, taking the best parts of Fallout 3 and combining it with the best parts of Fallout 1 and 2.

 

[SiggyB]

Just discovered this thread and I'm quite happy I did so! I've played 3 and New Vegas which makes me a rookie in the Fallout universe, but I blame the fact that I already play so many ancient, tiny-ass-resolution-and-shitty-UI games that I figure that playing One or Two would get me addicted in ways that might cost me my GPA.

Speaking of Fallout games, anyone play Old World Blues? I generally dislike HoI 4 because of how shittily they handled the base game, and how they have to basically fix it with DLC, but I quite enjoy the total overhaul that throws you into the world of Fallout.

 

[Pissmaster]

I enjoyed FO3 but I can definitely understand why people hate it.

It is awful as an RPG. Stats barely matter, you constantly get railroaded into completely exceptional choices, the writing is absolutely abysmal, few quests and most of them suck, and piss poor world building (Look! It's [real world city] but full of rubble that references every obvious thing everyone knows about [real world city] + wacky places that make no sense at all)

And this was supposed to be a sequel to Fallout, the game that pretty much defined the "modern" WRPG genre.
Instead you got an even more dumbed down Oblivion (with guns).

They also never got the original setting and tone right.
The dark humour is replaced with just plain silliness and references. The retrofuturism is replaced with people born generations after in a completely different world obsessing about 50s culture for no reason.
Fallout's world was harsh and cynical with a gloomy oppressive atmosphere - In Fallout 3 you never get the feeling that people struggle to survive - they're all free to devote their life to the dumbest shit while you yourself mow down level-scaled enemies while listening to Butcher Pete, never to encounter a place that actually feels dangerous.
In movie terms: Fallout was A Boy and His Dog, Fallout 3 was Mad Max 3.

I was thinking about this earlier, how the Bethesda Fallout games tend to get hate online because they're not RPGs in the same vein as Fallout 1 and 2, but I just don't think a CRPG like 1 and 2 could ever have the same kind of mainstream appeal 3/NV/4 had. Granted, Fallout 3 was sort of a product of its time, with so many games in the '00s being proudly touted as having moral choice systems that always boiled down to angelic good or devilshly evil, with no middle ground. New Vegas struck a nice middle ground, putting morals on the backburner and having you make actual choices that would steer you towards several different endgames, but I doubt we'll ever see an RPG with dialog trees on par with Disco Elysium get mainstream appeal any time soon.

RPGs have become so much harder to define over the years, anyway. I'm sure there's plenty of hate on 90's newsgroup threads about what we now call JRPGs calling themselves "role-playing games", when in most of them you don't even create a character, let alone make any decisions for them. But, the entire term is a huge mess now, so "CRPG" has taken to mean basically, like, a game where the computer acts as the DM, and you're playing a simulation of a pen-and-paper experience. Bethesda's Fallouts are not that at all, and are really closer to action RPGs like Diablo or Secret of Mana. And going by that category, they're definitely top-of-the-line experiences.

Though I wouldn't say no to a Bethesda Fallout game with Disco Elysium-levels of dialog trees.

 

[c-no]

I mean, Brotherhood of Steel was a thing before Bethesda took the IP. And a lot of the issues people have with the modern games can be traced back as far as 2.

And New Vegas was able to come about due to 3 being successful. So credit is where credit’s due.

Really, 3 onward being set away from the West Coast was pretty smart on Bethesda’s part. They’re certainly divisive, but at the end of the day, they clearly did something right to garner the good will and fan base they have.

Either way, I always look forward to the salt and controversy that comes with every new Fallout game.

Well, we did manage to get some salt 76 had in people screeching about how the game was soulless compared to previous games because of the message of nukes bad and all even though in all honesty, we had a nuclear bomb launcher as a weapon and one could still use the nukes in the game to drive the point of nukes bad. Then again I didn't play 76 so I don't know how bad nukes really are beyond hearing how three of them being set off in-game caused a server problem.

FO3 is a solid game but it is dumbed down over 1 and 2, the writing isn't as good, the RPG mechanics aren't as deep, I played 3 first and thought it was great, but after having since played 1 and 2 multiple times I can see why some fans weren't pleased.

The trouble with FO4 is the base building and crafting mechanics, this is a matter of personal taste but I just find that shit tedious, I'd much rather have well crafted game environments than one you build yourself, 4 has its moments but it's bogged down by that stuff as well as the writing continuing to be bland.

And of course 76 is a busted ass mess.

Bethesda's take on the franchise isn't worthless but they've really screwed it up in recent years.

A lot of it just comes down to writing, something that too often gets lost in the shuffle during game development, it's embarrassing that Bethesda thought going back to the bland writing in 4 was acceptable after NV raised the bar.

The writing itself would be a problem since from what we see with 4, it's just the story of 3 but flipped around on top of a villain faction that has a poor excuse for making robots to replace humans. I wouldn't mind another Fallout from Bethesda but I would like to see them write a better story than "find your missing family member" with a bad guy faction that has a poor motivation. Not really asking for a villain as deep in explaining his motives like Caesar but at least one with a plan that doesn't sound like it's stupid as it was with Father's.

 

[Dom Cruise]

Well, we did manage to get some salt 76 had in people screeching about how the game was soulless compared to previous games because of the message of nukes bad and all even though in all honesty, we had a nuclear bomb launcher as a weapon and one could still use the nukes in the game to drive the point of nukes bad. Then again I didn't play 76 so I don't know how bad nukes really are beyond hearing how three of them being set off in-game caused a server problem.


The writing itself would be a problem since from what we see with 4, it's just the story of 3 but flipped around on top of a villain faction that has a poor excuse for making robots to replace humans. I wouldn't mind another Fallout from Bethesda but I would like to see them write a better story than "find your missing family member" with a bad guy faction that has a poor motivation. Not really asking for a villain as deep in explaining his motives like Caesar but at least one with a plan that doesn't sound like it's stupid as it was with Father's.

At least 4 had the benefit of all new antagonists instead of just reusing Super Mutants and The Enclave.

I forgot to mention though that I find it best to just think of Bethesda's games as their own continuity separate from 1, 2 and New Vegas, it's easier to forgive the shortcomings that way.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

One of the best things Bethesda did was to capture the 50s aesthetic of Fallout. Fallout 1 and 2 were limited by their graphics. Only some of the car wrecks and prewar items looked like the 50s.

In contrast, Fallout 3 gave us robots, weapons, and a host of miscellaneous items that looked like a futuristic version of the 50s.

 

[c-no]

One of the best things Bethesda did was to capture the 50s aesthetic of Fallout. Fallout 1 and 2 were limited by their graphics. Only some of the car wrecks and prewar items looked like the 50s.

In contrast, Fallout 3 gave us robots, weapons, and a host of miscellaneous items that looked like a futuristic version of the 50s.

Most we could still see the aesthetic in Fallout 1 and 2 was in the vehicles used in places like Junktown or in some of items you find like Cat's Paw or cheesy poofs. On that same note though, we never seen much weapons of a 50's aesthetic being used in Fallout beyond New Vegas giving us some old guns which is ironic since 1 and 2 had weapons that were long after the 50's such as the desert eagle and the p90. Would of been nice of Bethesda to make more use of the 50's aethestics in having guns from that era in Fallout 4 since New Vegas had a wide selection.

 

[Berrakh]

Give me one good reason not to side with Father Elijah.

 

[Aquinas]

Give me one good reason not to side with Father Elijah.

Gold

 

[Berrakh]

Gold

The gold is there, and the machines can make gold.

 

[Lurkio]

Give me one good reason not to side with Father Elijah.

Because he's old and gay and was booted out of the faggiest faction in New Vegas.

But good lord was he a great villain (I know a lot of voice acting in New Vegas is sub-par, but damn did Father Elijah's VA earn his pay check) in what is my opinion the best DLC for New Vegas. Yeah I know some people didn't like it because it was hard, and the collars could be a bit bullshit sometimes, and choosing one wrong dialogue option for a companion could turn them against you...But I honestly felt that all lent itself to the opressive atmosphere of the Sierra Madre. Fallout games aren't scary, even when they try to be, but sweet Sunset Sarsaparilla there were moments in Dead Money that got me on the edge of my seat.

God did Obsidian make a good Fallout game. Not gonna lie, a small part of me hopes that Elder Scrolls 6 bombs just so the Bethesda will turn to Obsidian to make another Fallout game just out of desperation.

 

[Berrakh]

Because he's old and gay and was booted out of the faggiest faction in New Vegas.

Good he won't live very long, then I am in charge. Also the BoS failed him!

 

[Mola Ram]

Because he's old and gay and was booted out of the faggiest faction in New Vegas.

But good lord was he a great villain (I know a lot of voice acting in New Vegas is sub-par, but damn did Father Elijah's VA earn his pay check) in what is my opinion the best DLC for New Vegas. Yeah I know some people didn't like it because it was hard, and the collars could be a bit bullshit sometimes, and choosing one wrong dialogue option for a companion could turn them against you...But I honestly felt that all lent itself to the opressive atmosphere of the Sierra Madre. Fallout games aren't scary, even when they try to be, but sweet Sunset Sarsaparilla there were moments in Dead Money that got me on the edge of my seat.

God did Obsidian make a good Fallout game. Not gonna lie, a small part of me hopes that Elder Scrolls 6 bombs just so the Bethesda will turn to Obsidian to make another Fallout game just out of desperation.

Bethesda could easily save Fallout simply by swallowing their pride and inviting back the New Vegas crew to do Fallout 5. But there's just too much ego at this point.

 

[Idonttrustlikethat]

Really loved ammo loading in NV, just that alone made me like NV more than 3 and 4.

 

[Dom Cruise]

One of the best things Bethesda did was to capture the 50s aesthetic of Fallout. Fallout 1 and 2 were limited by their graphics. Only some of the car wrecks and prewar items looked like the 50s.

In contrast, Fallout 3 gave us robots, weapons, and a host of miscellaneous items that looked like a futuristic version of the 50s.

You are correct, Bethesda really played up the 1950s vibe which is one of the few ways they improved on things over the original 2.

Bethesda could easily save Fallout simply by swallowing their pride and inviting back the New Vegas crew to do Fallout 5. But there's just too much ego at this point.

The idea of a next gen Fallout 5 by the New Vegas crew gives me an erection.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

The idea of a next gen Fallout 5 by the New Vegas crew gives me an erection.

New Vegas was lightning in a bottle. I don’t think you’d be able get a similar game even if you get the same team. Especially the political climate. I believe JE Sawyer Chris Avellone recently said that he would have shown that the Legion as unambiguously bad and let’s not forget that Sawyer supported hbomberguy’s Mermaid’s UK charity stream.

Imagine a Fallout with the unsubtle political/social commentary of The Outer Worlds.

 

[c-no]

Bethesda could easily save Fallout simply by swallowing their pride and inviting back the New Vegas crew to do Fallout 5. But there's just too much ego at this point.

Not to mention, people that worked on the game such as Avellone and Sawyer have left Obsidian. Granted, I hear Outer Worlds did well so another Fallout from Obsidian could still be good even without Avellone writing a fuck ton of shit that gets shaved off and all but at this point if Obsidian was able to make another Fallout, one wonders if they can try a new region that isn't the west coast or the east coast. Maybe focusing more on the wasteland and not just city limits where you got a one big city and everything else is a small settlement like 3 and 4 did.

New Vegas was lightning in a bottle. I don’t think you’d be able get a similar game even if you get the same team. Especially the political climate. I believe JE Sawyer recently said that he would have shown that the Legion as unambiguously bad and let’s not forget that’s he supported hbomberguy’s Mermaid’s UK charity stream.

Imagine a Fallout with the unsubtle political/social commentary of The Outer Worlds.

If the devs were to try and give you the idea that only this faction is good and the other is bad, I can imagine rolling my eyes and going sure. For me, I could feel it being no different than from 4 when they give you four different factions and the only difference was some gimmick to them. They could say 1 and 2 gave commentary but from all the hours spent into them, it gave sympathy to a mound of flesh in 1 and 2 telling me that the best ending after a fan made bug fix for a douchebag faction was letting them be independent and cooperate with a group they were racist to. For the Legion bit, I thought that was Aveone saying he wishes people didn't have any sympathy to them even though their opponent turned out to only be slightly better.

 

[vertexwindi]

Avellone was the one who claims he wished the Legion wasn't joinable after someone sent him some dumb MUH MISOGYNY takes on Twitter. Sawyer claims the Legion ended up coming across as more misogynist than he intended and that he regrets not having had the time to add more Legion content east of the Colorado River.

 

[Smaug's Smokey Hole]

Not to mention, people that worked on the game such as Avellone and Sawyer have left Obsidian. Granted, I hear Outer Worlds did well so another Fallout from Obsidian could still be good even without Avellone writing a fuck ton of shit that gets shaved off and all but at this point if Obsidian was able to make another Fallout, one wonders if they can try a new region that isn't the west coast or the east coast. Maybe focusing more on the wasteland and not just city limits where you got a one big city and everything else is a small settlement like 3 and 4 did.

Map size is one thing probably limits having several larger cities, there wouldn't be much wasteland left. A return to how Fallout 1 & 2 or even Arena/Daggerfall did it could be cool, who cares if 90% of the wasteland is boring proceduraly generated terrain, that's suitable for a wasteland. It would bring back the excitement of uncovering the map and being surprised by what you find. I like the 3D Fallout games and the map is by no means tiny, but you can often spot too much in the distance, you see something that you know you will return to on a quest at a later date/higher level and things like that.