Fallout series

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

I think the real reason that the NCR soldiers where all so incompetent all the time was because the game really wanted you to side with them. They need to be in danger so you can come in and play hero. Logically and mechanically the Legion goons usually get their buts kicked in open combat given that they mostly have pointy sticks while the NCR bothers to give everyone mid-grade firearms. You'd probably have to give the Legion more quests or content for them to be a comparable faction to the NCR.

I thought the whole "Guns make you weak, therefore lets charge rifle lines with machetes!" shit was kinda fucking dumb. Especially because the Legion has absolutely no qualms about arming their soldiers with good weapons to come kill my ass once I've picked off a few of their soldiers. Any leader who refuses to seize an advantage because of their ideology is a shitty fucking leader.

 

[Lackadaisy]

Even I won't defend Ulysses. I'm going through a new playthrough now, and I think I'll just stop at Old World Blues (which, incidentally, is the best DLC).

 

[Snekposter]

They're all there not just because of those old loose ends, but because New Vegas is very much about the death of the old world. The Super Mutants, Enclave, Brotherhood... all part of the Old World, all broken and dying even as New Vegas and the New California Republic rise from the ashes. The single biggest attempt to recreate the Old World's glory, Caesar's Legion, is doomed to die along with him. As to Lonesome Road... I've said it before but I'll say it again. Avellone was trying to be Kojima all deep and witty while lacking the man's autistic brilliance. Compare the absolute slog that is Lonesome Road to the jeep ride with Skullface in Phantom Pain, and tell me what's different, narratively speaking. They're both on-rails monologues where the villain blames you for everything he's lost and tells you over and over how upset he is and why he's doing this to you. Its just that one is an iconic moment with insight on the importance of language and the other is a man pissed his home exploded.

 

[God of Nothing]

Every faction was intended, per Sawyer, to have upsides and downsides.
NCR: well-meaning but corrupt and incompetent. With a bit of player-induced renovation, NCR's bureaucratic fuckups are ameliorated and it becomes stable, if restrictive and high in taxes. Viable.

Legion: dictatorial but safe and stable for those under its blanket. Brutal and inhumane to its enemies, but pretty great inside its own territory for those who don't break the law and aren't part of the actual Legion. Most of the sympathetic stuff got cut due to time constraints and fucking Avellone pushing back against it.

House: Myopic and solely focused on Vegas as a city-state, but legitimately the best hope for rebuilding an advanced space-age civilization. Most of the dick moves House pulls have reasoning behind them, and going independant then picking a different choice than his usually has negative ramifications, which does give his accusations about the viability of the other factions some credibility.

Wild Card: entirely player choice, for better or worse, and you will have to make some hard choices for the best results.

My biggest gripe about House (as someone who prefers House on the whole) is that if you make a few choices that are pro-NCR but seem the best option (like making peace in freeside) it results in House damning those areas for "siding with the enemy". He ends up being 100% right about others, like the Brotherhood and Great Khans.

Fuck the Brotherhood for reasons already enumerated and the Khans can have a peaceful ending but don't deserve it. Bitter-root did nothing wrong.

Did Avellone really push against it? I mean, the DLCs could've been used far better to expand the world beyond what we got but still.

I don't understand why people think House would actually get to the space-age again. That's just him blowing smoke up your ass. He says and acts like he's intelligent but really he's an idiot whose plan rested entirely on you in every way. His endings with NCR Primm and NCR Kings just shows he really is the megalomaniacal asshole he insists he's not.

Yeah, I'm with you there. Boone has no reason to feel guilty over Bitter Springs. Fuck the Khans down to their elderly and children. Better off dead, same with the BoS.

 

[God of Nothing]

I thought the whole "Guns make you weak, therefore lets charge rifle lines with machetes!" shit was kinda fucking dumb. Especially because the Legion has absolutely no qualms about arming their soldiers with good weapons to come kill my ass once I've picked off a few of their soldiers. Any leader who refuses to seize an advantage because of their ideology is a shitty fucking leader.

Their entire thing isn't "Technology Baaaaaaaad" but reliance on technology is anathema on humanity's growth. If you talk with Moore about the Legion, she'll go on about how they're fucking beasts who charge in with machetes, willingly kill themselves to avoid capture, grab fallen enemies' guns to use against their comrades, and more physically fit than their troops. Fuck, the NCR dam troops have orders to throw their weapons over the dam if they're wounded and surrounded because they'd just be arming the Legion.

If you download Caesar's New Regime to get rid of that retarded and hideous sports gear, you'd be amazed at how effective they are and that they really do swap weapons when they can. Makes them feel like a proper Mad Max-esque threat.

 

[WinchesterPremium]

They're all there not just because of those old loose ends, but because New Vegas is very much about the death of the old world. The Super Mutants, Enclave, Brotherhood... all part of the Old World, all broken and dying even as New Vegas and the New California Republic rise from the ashes. The single biggest attempt to recreate the Old World's glory, Caesar's Legion, is doomed to die along with him. As to Lonesome Road... I've said it before but I'll say it again. Avellone was trying to be Kojima all deep and witty while lacking the man's autistic brilliance. Compare the absolute slog that is Lonesome Road to the jeep ride with Skullface in Phantom Pain, and tell me what's different, narratively speaking. They're both on-rails monologues where the villain blames you for everything he's lost and tells you over and over how upset he is and why he's doing this to you. Its just that one is an iconic moment with insight on the importance of language and the other is a man pissed his home exploded.

All three of those factions only became a thing after the Old World fell. They are as much part of the old world as the Holy Roman Empire was part of Rome, they just kinda steal its names and wear its skin as a hat.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

Their entire thing isn't "Technology Baaaaaaaad" but reliance on technology is anathema on humanity's growth. If you talk with Moore about the Legion, she'll go on about how they're fucking beasts who charge in with machetes, willingly kill themselves to avoid capture, grab fallen enemies' guns to use against their comrades, and more physically fit than their troops. Fuck, the NCR dam troops have orders to throw their weapons over the dam if they're wounded and surrounded because they'd just be arming the Legion.

If you download Caesar's New Regime to get rid of that exceptional and hideous sports gear, you'd be amazed at how effective they are and that they really do swap weapons when they can. Makes them feel like a proper Mad Max-esque threat.

See, I can kinda get all that, but when going against the NCR he should have started breaking out the captured weaponry. I mean, he wanted to use artillery, that was sensible as fuck all things considered. Not having guns against opponents who do have guns is putting yourself at a marked disadvantage and it's foolish as hell. It should have been a "because we need to, not because we want to" situation. Use guns only when you absolutely have to.

 

[God of Nothing]

See, I can kinda get all that, but when going against the NCR he should have started breaking out the captured weaponry. I mean, he wanted to use artillery, that was sensible as fuck all things considered. Not having guns against opponents who do have guns is putting yourself at a marked disadvantage and it's foolish as hell. It should have been a "because we need to, not because we want to" situation. Use guns only when you absolutely have to.

They kind have that in the form of Legion vets sporting anti-mat rifles, marksman carbines, 12.7mm submachine guns, and super sledges for melee.

What would've been a great display of adaption and tolerance of technology is a Legion sniper team formed specifically to counter the rangers at Hoover Dam. A sort of rival for 1st Recon using the same type of rifles.

 

[Snekposter]

Hardly. The Enclave is rather hilariously the de jure but not de facto government for the USA as a result of continuity of government policies, the initial super mutant experiments were done at Mariposa during the final days of the war, and the first Elder Maxson was also Captain Roger Maxson, US Army. Both Fallout 1 and 2 are all about cleaning up the messes the Old World left behind, and its telling that all of those are side stories in Fallout New Vegas, with the main plot all about the two New World factions of the NCR and the Legion.

 

[Sug Benis]

Did Avellone really push against it? I mean, the DLCs could've been used far better to expand the world beyond what we got but still.

I don't understand why people think House would actually get to the space-age again. That's just him blowing smoke up your ass. He says and acts like he's intelligent but really he's an idiot whose plan rested entirely on you in every way. His endings with NCR Primm and NCR Kings just shows he really is the megalomaniacal asshole he insists he's not.

Yeah, I'm with you there. Boone has no reason to feel guilty over Bitter Springs. Fuck the Khans down to their elderly and children. Better off dead, same with the BoS.

Avellone claimed so on Twitter, though perhaps he was just posturing for the woke crowd.

As for the space age part, his predictions about the great war were accurate to a not-quite pinpoint but still absurdly accurate degree. His machinations prevented a significant portion of the nuclear devastation intended for Vegas. He ends up being right about the course of various factions in the mojave, and while yeah, a lot of shit required you, the same can be said of various other factions. Caesar created the very situation where the fate of his tumor lies on you, all due to his own actions and hubris. The NCR created a situation where someone like you is required through bureaucracy and different members pulling in opposite directions.

House is a megalomaniacal autocrat. That isn't in question, and he's not as benevolent as he pretends he is. No truly benevolent autocrat would allow the Omertas to exist for one, save perhaps a reasoning that having it in plain sight is better than the alternative. That said, with all the absurd long odds he accurately predicts, I'm willing to take him at his word on the technological progress front.

Other than that, Independant is my other preference, which still piggybacks off of what House (and Benny) set in motion. The NCR could stand to stop expanding into Vegas, it's rapidly evolving into pre-war America 2.0, and Caesar's Legion is doomed to fail by virtue of Edward Sallow's own mortality.

 

[Farmer Dave]

The absolute state of Obsoydian "writing".

 

[God of Nothing]

The absolute state of Obsoydian "writing".View attachment 1312638

The option is more complicated than that and a good one but being able to talk down fucking Lanius, the Butcher of the East in an army where failure and retreating is met with execution, was ridiculous. No way you could talk him down after everything that's happened.

 

[GethN7]

The option is more complicated than that and a good one but being able to talk down fucking Lanius, the Butcher of the East in an army where failure and retreating is met with execution, was ridiculous. No way you could talk him down after everything that's happened.

Well, to be fair, he is the biggest badass in the Legion. If he wants to fall back, who the hell is going to cross him?

Also, while the NCR, Legion, House, and going it independent all have their dumb sides, you only have so much ability to affect things, and here's what realistically is possible given that pull you possess.


House: It's pretty clear House knows despite all he can do on his own, he needs a proxy and he also knows he's not going to be able to stay alive forever. He's clearly hoping to turn you into his successor if any hope of leaving his suspended animation chamber is off the table, which it likely is. He's a myopic douche with a "my vision for Vegas, fuck everyone else" kind of thinking, but given how much his perspective is limited, it might be worth letting him take charge with you as the proxy to at least keep Vegas functional with minimal BS from anyone else.

NCR: They are hideously inefficient without you to cut through the red tape, but having them around might be worth it for the commercial benefits, so long as you're willing to accept you'll have to be pretty hands-on to make sure their rule is more a benefit than a hindrance.

Legion: You are signing up for a bunch of brutal assholes to ensure safety at the cost of liberty, but if you pick this option, you accept their brutal POV as necessary to keep Vegas safe. You otherwise don't have much say here.

Independent: You forego the safety provided by the Legion, the commercial benefits of the NCR, and Mr. House's pragmatic if myopic oversight, but you do so expecting that your hands on approach to removing any major power players save yourself will result in the natives of New Vegas prospering without the above three's interference.

 

[God of Nothing]

Well, to be fair, he is the biggest badass in the Legion. If he wants to fall back, who the hell is going to cross him?

Also, while the NCR, Legion, House, and going it independent all have their dumb sides, you only have so much ability to affect things, and here's what realistically is possible given that pull you possess.


House: It's pretty clear House knows despite all he can do on his own, he needs a proxy and he also knows he's not going to be able to stay alive forever. He's clearly hoping to turn you into his successor if any hope of leaving his suspended animation chamber is off the table, which is likely is. He's a myopic douche with a "my vision for Vegas, fuck everyone else" kind of thinking, but given how much his perspective is limited, it might be worth letting him take charge with you as the proxy to at least keep Vegas functional with minimal BS from anyone else.

NCR: They are hideously inefficient without you to cut through the red tape, but having them around might be worth it for the commercial benefits, so long as you're willing to accept you'll have to be pretty hands-on to make sure their rule is more a benefit than a hindrance.

Legion: You are signing up for a bunch of brutal assholes to ensure safety at the cost of liberty, but if you pick this option, you accept there brutal POV as necessary to keep Vegas safe. You otherwise don;t have much say here.

Independent: You forego the safety provided by the Legion, the commercial benefits of the NCR, and Mr. House's pragmatic if myopic oversight, but you do so expecting that your hands on approach to removing any major power players save yourself will result in the natives of New Vegas prospering without the above three's interference.

Right on all accounts.

I do think Caesar might end up Housing by trying to get you to succeed him. It makes almost perfect sense: you're a warrior, diplomat, spy, and assassin all in one. The coin minted in your honor during his end is really fucking big if you think about it. He's elevating you to his and Graham's former level of significance. Maybe Obsidian would've hinted at something like that if there were a post-game world to explore.

Really, one of the DLCs should've been cut for that, mostly Lonesome Road and all its buildup. Would've been to nice to have its own Broken Steel.

 

[GethN7]

Right on all accounts.

I do think Caesar might end up Housing by trying to get you to succeed him. It makes almost perfect sense: you're a warrior, diplomat, spy, and assassin all in one. The coin minted in your honor during his end is really fucking big if you think about it. He's elevating you to his and Graham's former level of significance. Maybe Obsidian would've hinted at something like that if there were a post-game world to explore.

Really, one of the DLCs should've been cut for that, mostly Lonesome Road and all its buildup. Would've been to nice to have its own Broken Steel.

There is a mod for post-game play

FPGE - Functional Post Game Ending

Adds a fully functional post-game world to the game, no longer will you be brought to the credits and end your journey there. Instead, you will realise the consequences of what endings you've gotten a

www.nexusmods.com

Works, even the Obsidian devs gave it a hat tip for quality.

 

[Burned Man]

They kind have that in the form of Legion vets sporting anti-mat rifles, marksman carbines, 12.7mm submachine guns, and super sledges for melee.

What would've been a great display of adaption and tolerance of technology is a Legion sniper team formed specifically to counter the rangers at Hoover Dam. A sort of rival for 1st Recon using the same type of rifles.

They have no qualms about using guns in any capacity. Hell they even try to trade the Van Graffs for a large supply of energy weapons. My thinking is they don't have the capability to manufacture or maintain a large amount of guns so they only break out the good stuff at key moments or critical assignments. The primary strength of the Legionnaire is that he is trained to use fire arms but he isn't dependent on them on at all to be combat effective. You give him a cowboy repeater or a 9mm submachine gun he'll shoot you dead, you don't give him one he'll cut you down with his machete, you take away his machete he'll still punch you to death. You take away a NCR trooper's service rifle they'll die, and the Legion is very good at cutting off the NCR's supply chain.

I like the sniper idea. At least they thought of that with the howitzer being their anti sniper weapon.

Right on all accounts.

I do think Caesar might end up Housing by trying to get you to succeed him. It makes almost perfect sense: you're a warrior, diplomat, spy, and assassin all in one. The coin minted in your honor during his end is really fucking big if you think about it. He's elevating you to his and Graham's former level of significance. Maybe Obsidian would've hinted at something like that if there were a post-game world to explore.

Really, one of the DLCs should've been cut for that, mostly Lonesome Road and all its buildup. Would've been to nice to have its own Broken Steel.

I think that's part of the problem with the ending is you do all this stuff for all these factions clearly showing your preference and what you want to be and the game never lets you join any of them in a real capacity. You get your civilian medals and then move on to still being a wandering death machine mail man. Its even stranger is that a lot of the flaws that come with your chosen ending can easily be fixed by the player sticking around.

I also think one of Caesar's Legions problems in its writing is that its called Caesar's Legion and not Caesar's Empire or something like that. It never feels like its anything other then a military organization. It hard to imagine what other citizens in his realm are like and do since we only know about the slaves and the soldiers.

 

[GethN7]

I think that's part of the problem with the ending is you do all this stuff for all these factions clearly showing your preference and what you want to be and the game never lets you join any of them in a real capacity. You get your civilian medals and then move on to still being a wandering death machine mail man. Its even stranger is that a lot of the flaws that come with your chosen ending can easily be fixed by the player sticking around.

I also think one of Caesar's Legions problems in its writing is that its called Caesar's Legion and not Caesar's Empire or something like that. It never feels like its anything other then a military organization. It hard to imagine what other citizens in his realm are like and do since we only know about the slaves and the soldiers.

Caesar does mention he wants Vegas to be his Rome, so he was thinking of setting up an Empire and not a roving army.

Also, according to the Obsidian devs and all the things the modder who put together that post-game playable mod pointed out, a lot of stuff was cut for time, such as seeing the aftermath of your decisions. Obsidian got pushed for making their deadline and the mod that enables post-ending play only has so much post-game content because of the first point, as some was coded in, but left unfinished and dummied out.

That FPGE mod does restore as much as possible and let you continue to walk around the Mojave and see what you wrought with your choice, at least in the short-term.

 

[God of Nothing]

There is a mod for post-game play

FPGE - Functional Post Game Ending

Adds a fully functional post-game world to the game, no longer will you be brought to the credits and end your journey there. Instead, you will realise the consequences of what endings you've gotten a

www.nexusmods.com

Works, even the Obsidian devs gave it a hat tip for quality.

Huh, it looks like my current run will last even longer than my others.

They have no qualms about using guns in any capacity. Hell they even try to trade the Van Graffs for a large supply of energy weapons. My thinking is they don't have the capability to manufacture or maintain a large amount of guns so they only break out the good stuff at key moments or critical assignments. The primary strength of the Legionnaire is that he is trained to use fire arms but he isn't dependent on them on at all to be combat effective. You give him a cowboy repeater or a 9mm submachine gun he'll shoot you dead, you don't give him one he'll cut you down with his machete, you take away his machete he'll still punch you to death. You take away a NCR trooper's service rifle they'll die, and the Legion is very good at cutting off the NCR's supply chain.

I like the sniper idea. At least they thought of that with the howitzer being their anti sniper weapon.


I think that's part of the problem with the ending is you do all this stuff for all these factions clearly showing your preference and what you want to be and the game never lets you join any of them in a real capacity. You get your civilian medals and then move on to still being a wandering death machine mail man. Its even stranger is that a lot of the flaws that come with your chosen ending can easily be fixed by the player sticking around.

I also think one of Caesar's Legions problems in its writing is that its called Caesar's Legion and not Caesar's Empire or something like that. It never feels like its anything other then a military organization. It hard to imagine what other citizens in his realm are like and do since we only know about the slaves and the soldiers.

Yup, probably the best thing about the Legion. Imagine an army that is always combat ready, proficient in all manner of weaponry, combat, and warfare. You are never once called or ordered by Caesar to clean up one of their messes because they don't leave any, with the exception of Silus.

The Legion thing is intentional because it's an incomplete Roman Empire. Edward is Julius Caesar post the conquest of Gaul without the authority of the Senate in New Vegas. He isn't lying or inaccurate when he says the Colorado is his Rubicon: Caesar was a conqueror but didn't become an Emperor before that.

 

[Snekposter]

You get a bit of perspective from what Legion territory is like from Raul and the trader in the Legion camp. There's little-to-no banditry after Caesar crucified everyone even remotely connected to it, and because they're a plundering, slaving army who carries as much infrastructure with them as possible, they're able to keep tribute and taxes in their controlled areas to a minimum. I do despise the fucking football pad uniforms though. Works for the kids you see in training at Caesar's camp, but dear lord the actual soldiers should be wearing some heavy duty protection. Fortunately, there's the Caesar's New Regime mod on the Nexus that fixes that annoyance.

As to them being so averse to technology, simple pragmatism since that lack of dedicated supply base means they have to do all maintenance and ammo resupply from what they have marching with them and can take from their conquests. They're notorious for Roman efficiency and paperwork, as the bill of sale in Novac and Boone's commentary on it shows, and they use radios and perform detailed planning as demonstrated at both Cottonmouth Cove and the spycraft in New Vegas and McCarran. Hell, whenever I've tried to steal the shit from Aurelius's quarters during the day he's always sitting at his desk doing bitch basic paperwork like any modern-day CO is stuck doing.

 

[Get_your_kicks_with_30-06]

The Super Mutants, Enclave, Brotherhood... all part of the Old World, all broken and dying even as New Vegas and the New California Republic rise from the ashes. The single biggest attempt to recreate the Old World's glory, Caesar's Legion, is doomed to die along with him.

The thing is the New California Republic is still pretty "Old World". Yes it is a brand new nation independent from the past, but still they are just copying the United States' republic model of governance, their army uses a US pre-war design for their standard issue rifle, their economy works just the same as well, etc. The NCR is more of a continuation of the US (well the real US instead of the Fallout universe's borderline fascist US) then the Enclave ever was.

New Vegas is a city-state "ran" by a guy who is literally from the old world and it uses the allure of the same old world casinos to make money that the city of the past did.

Then Caesar's Legion is just a post-apocalyptic re branding of Julius Caesar's conquest of Gaul (Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, etc.) and then Civil War with the Senate (NCR).

Everyone in a position of power is still basing every idea they have in the world before the bombs because they all want that pre nuclear holocaust world back even if most of them have never actually experienced it, they just think it's better than the hell they inhabit now. While the regular wasteland inhabitant just cares about the present, keeping themselves, their family, and their community safe.
Fallout New Vegas really took the "War never changes" thing to heart by creating an entire narrative to show that war is just a human constant and that it has played out the same exact way for thousands of years no matter the setting.