Fallout series

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Even if Bethesda wanted to make a New Vegas 2, it's physically impossible unless they pick one ending to be canon. Which they can't, unless they want to piss off fans of each faction. Legion fans will be pissed if they lost. NCR and House fans will be pissed if the Legion won. The endings to New Vegas are like the Mass Effect 3 endings: so widely divergent that you can't just make a new game and write off the events of the previous game in a manner where the fans can decide in their minds who won.

But for my money, House winning should be canon. He's the one who hired the Courier in the first place, and it was his minion who dug out the Courier after Benny and the Khans left them for dead. So naturally, most Couriers would pay back that debt of gratitude and work for the guy. The Courier has no previous loyalties to the NCR or the Legion, and House seems like the stable candidate to work with. Not to mention that House winning keeps both the NCR and the Legion from total victory, meaning that either faction can still make a comeback. Or, have House eventually win control of both factions; he gets so rich that he eventually bribes his way into leadership in the NCR, and he makes deals with the Legion to help keep them from splintering while preserving their culture, power base, and military unity in exchange for naming him their new Caesar. Since after his ending, House would gain plenty of power, it makes sense for a militaristic society like the Legion to go for those who have the appeal of power, and House would have plenty after his ending in New Vegas.

Realistically I don't think the Legion would survive the death of both Caesar and Lanius. Not as a whole. There would likely be a war of succession after the defeat at the dam.

Hell, that there could make for a decent Fallout game in and of itself. Taking place in Legion territory in the aftermath of the Battle of Hoover Dam. The Legion has fractured with several factions emerging from the remains and now vying for power against each other.

I'd play it.

Not so. If Vulpes and Lucius survived, they can run the Legion better than Caesar or Lanius. Caesar was too obsessed with glory, Lanius was too bloodthirsty to be a politician. But Caesar's top guard who's seen how he works, paired with his top spy who knows the ins and outs of not only the Legion, but its neighbors and foes? They can run the Legion well and probably wage a better war against the NCR than even Caesar could. They'd work together to unite the Legion forces for one more push after spending more years turning people from local settlements and the Three Families against the NCR while the NCR also has to face enemies back west like raider tribes and the Brotherhood of Steel in Lost Hills. Lucius seems like he can run a decent war, and Vulpes would have no problems running black ops against the NCR or turning locals and rich people against them. That would make for a winning combo against the NCR and its tunnel-vision strategy.

For whatever reason, after playing New Vegas so much, I feel like the Yes Man ending with good karma is the perfect ending.
I say this because at least I know that anarchism can work in a post-apocalyptic world (and for some reason Arcade Gannon supports indirectly).

The ideals of Mr. House may be beneficial to humanity but he falls on the same side as the NCR on reviving old ideals that basically ended in international tragedy.

Not to mention the Legion and its imperialism, even though they are not a bad option in this kind of world.

How the heck would House even fall on the same side as the NCR? He wants to revive the tech sectors and explore space, which is different from the NCR and the Legion just sticking their flags on everything they see. House is a far different animal than both of them, and the Yes Man ending is just you being House.

 

[Imperial Citizen]

How the heck would House even fall on the same side as the NCR? He wants to revive the tech sectors and explore space, which is different from the NCR and the Legion just sticking their flags on everything they see. House is a far different animal than both of them, and the Yes Man ending is just you being House.

It's the irony of his line: "If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows." It was never democracy that destroyed the world, it was his way of thinking, his autocracy that did so. Instead of using his wealth to prevent the apocalypse, House decided that his precious city was more important, which he barely even saved. Enclave, Vault-Tec, Big MT, the Institute all decided that humanity was doomed and rather than work their damnedest to stop nuclear war, they choose to profit from it. Utilizing human beings for the psychotic experiments, refusing to send aid to survivors outside all because they believed that they were superior to the rest of humanity by virtue of wealth, intelligence, power, or the chance of not being an irradiated mutant.

House may have big plans, but does he give a fuck about anyone else? Why does he get the only say in the future of humanity? Why can't the Courier get a say? He did all of the heavy lifting. All House did was piss and shit in an Institute cryo pod and handed out fancy clothes to tribals.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

It's the irony of his line: "If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the windows." It was never democracy that destroyed the world, it was his way of thinking, his autocracy that did so. Instead of using his wealth to prevent the apocalypse, House decided that his precious city was more important, which he barely even saved. Enclave, Vault-Tec, Big MT, the Institute all decided that humanity was doomed and rather than work their damnedest to stop nuclear war, they choose to profit from it. Utilizing human beings for the psychotic experiments, refusing to send aid to survivors outside all because they believed that they were superior to the rest of humanity by virtue of wealth, intelligence, power, or the chance of not being an irradiated mutant.

House may have big plans, but does he give a fuck about anyone else? Why does he get the only say in the future of humanity? Why can't the Courier get a say? He did all of the heavy lifting. All House did was piss and shit in an Institute cryo pod and handed out fancy clothes to tribals.

It kind of was democracy that destroyed America in the Fallout universe. The people voted in their officials and trusted them to do what was best. They fired nukes at the enemy just as the enemy fired nukes on them. House's autocracy didn't destroy jack shit, it was a result of looking at how the US was lost and trying to adapt to it, just like Caesar, Elder Lyons, the Institute, and every other two-cap ruler in the wasteland did. House couldn't save America, much less the world, so he chose to save what he can and hope for the best.

The Enclave was a shadow government composed of elected officials and corporate leaders who thought they were better than everyone, who were incompetent beyond belief, and their only credentials to rule was that they were voted in, either by the electorate or by corporate stockholders. The Big MT Think Tank were just literal psychopaths for science, and the same goes for Vault-Tec, who also built their own secret vault so they can survive the war. The difference was, they sought to hide from the nukes, House actually shot them down or disabled them. If these government and corporate leaders followed House's example, America would have survived the nuclear apocalypse.

House didn't experiment on people, nor did he turn down people because they were mutants. He simply civilized them and gave them the gifts of old-world tech and civilization. And his whole plan IS all about giving humanity a home out in space that isn't full of radiation. Not to mention that the Courier practically does everything House does in the Yes Man ending anyways, so it's better to let House sort out the details while letting the Courier do the rest. Nine times out of ten, most couriers aren't visionaries anyways.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

It kind of was democracy that destroyed America in the Fallout universe. The people voted in their officials and trusted them to do what was best. They fired nukes at the enemy just as the enemy fired nukes on them. House's autocracy didn't destroy jack shit, it was a result of looking at how the US was lost and trying to adapt to it, just like Caesar, Elder Lyons, the Institute, and every other two-cap ruler in the wasteland did. House couldn't save America, much less the world, so he chose to save what he can and hope for the best.

The Enclave was a shadow government composed of elected officials and corporate leaders who thought they were better than everyone, who were incompetent beyond belief, and their only credentials to rule was that they were voted in, either by the electorate or by corporate stockholders. The Big MT Think Tank were just literal psychopaths for science, and the same goes for Vault-Tec, who also built their own secret vault so they can survive the war. The difference was, they sought to hide from the nukes, House actually shot them down or disabled them. If these government and corporate leaders followed House's example, America would have survived the nuclear apocalypse.

House didn't experiment on people, nor did he turn down people because they were mutants. He simply civilized them and gave them the gifts of old-world tech and civilization. And his whole plan IS all about giving humanity a home out in space that isn't full of radiation. Not to mention that the Courier practically does everything House does in the Yes Man ending anyways, so it's better to let House sort out the details while letting the Courier do the rest. Nine times out of ten, most couriers aren't visionaries anyways.

Your logic defeats itself, sir. Shadow governments and democracies are pretty well mutually exclusive. Once you have an unaccountable shadow government your democracy is nothing but a facade. You can't vote out a shadow government, nor can you vote one in.

Democracy didn't cause the Enclave or the Great War. Failure to safeguard it did.

 

[CWCissey]

No form of government caused The Great War. The lack of an important resource and societal incompetence did.

 

[A Grey Cat]

"The thing about happiness is that you only know you had it when it's gone. I mean, you may think to yourself that you're happy. But you don't really believe it. You focus on the petty bullshit, or the next job, or whatever. It's only looking back by comparison with what comes after that you really understand, that's what happiness felt like."

-Kellogg.

Say what you want about fallout 4 but these words have never been more relevant now than ever, you wanna know why? Just take a look outside your window.

 

[draggs]

No form of government caused The Great War. The lack of an important resource and societal incompetence did.

Democracy made China invade Alaska

 

[CWCissey]

Democracy made China invade Alaska

Oil made China invade Alaska.

 

[draggs]

Oil made China invade Alaska.

Democracy made oil

The everybody pre-war was crazy cartoon evil stuff that took over Fallout lore starting with FO2 was a mistake. US government was crazy cartoon evil. Vault-Tech was crazy cartoon evil. West-Tek was crazy cartoon evil. The amount of that driving events and flavoring the world in Fallout was very small compared to every game after, except New Vegas. They really ratcheted it up in FO2 and Bethesda broke the knob with it from FO3 on.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Your logic defeats itself, sir. Shadow governments and democracies are pretty well mutually exclusive. Once you have an unaccountable shadow government your democracy is nothing but a facade. You can't vote out a shadow government, nor can you vote one in.

Democracy didn't cause the Enclave or the Great War. Failure to safeguard it did.

Wrong again. The war was started because China was a Communist dictatorship and America was a democracy, at least on paper. Which is why the latter refused to sell oil to the former. If they were both dictatorships, they would have come to a deal, and there would be no Chinese invasion of Alaska or nuclear war. Even Joe Stalin and Adolf Hitler signed peace treaties with each other before the latter betrayed the former. The main reason the Great War started was because America had this intense spirit of "OOH-RAH!" democracy that made them unflinchingly uncompromising when it came to selling oil to the Chinese.

And who became a part of that Shadow Government, hmm? A cabal of secret interests? No, they were political and corporate idiots voted in to power by the common people or by corporate stockholders. They have no claim to any authority outside of the fact that they were elected to the post. They just chose to betray their electorate and hide in a bunker while the rest of the country burned.

Even without the Enclave, democracy would have started the Great War anyways. A democratic country would never sell oil to a Communist tyranny that it sees as a threat. You would still have the Great War and the nuclear apocalypse. The Enclave was just the top brass deciding that hiding out in a bunker or an oil rig was preferable to dying with the rest of America. The only thing that would change without the Enclave is that the top brass would have died along with the common rabble.

No form of government caused The Great War. The lack of an important resource and societal incompetence did.

Not really. If both America and China were dictatorships, they'd have no problems with Alaskan Oil being sold to the Commies. Even the Nazis made deals with them before betraying them.

Democracy made oil

The everybody pre-war was crazy cartoon evil stuff that took over Fallout lore starting with FO2 was a mistake. US government was crazy cartoon evil. Vault-Tech was crazy cartoon evil. West-Tek was crazy cartoon evil. The amount of that driving events and flavoring the world in Fallout was very small compared to every game after, except New Vegas. They really ratcheted it up in FO2 and Bethesda broke the knob with it from FO3 on.

My point exactly. Democracies were crazy for oil, and they wouldn't sell it to filthy Commies.

FO2 went way overboard with how every old world government and corporation was evil. They had to reign it in in New Vegas, where the Enclave soldiers were portrayed as merely wanting to restore order, while an old corporate executive actually saved a major American metropolis from nuclear fire. I'd actually say that out of all the mainline games, FO2 had the most flaws. It introduced the Enclave as a cool new villain, but went overboard in making everyone out to be a total piece of shit except for the creator's pet faction that is the NCR.

FO3, for all its flaws, made more sense than FO2 did. The government hiding out in a bunker close to the capital in Raven Rock made more sense than them hiding out in some oil rig off the western coast that had its own nuclear reactor. Especially since if a Chinese submarine or cruiser survived the Great War, it could easily launch missiles at the Oil Rig and kill the President, his entire staff, and his elite guard. Or a suicidal Chinese spy with one of those cloaking suits can sneak in and sabotage the reactor, blowing up the oil rig and killing everyone inside. Meanwhile, an inland bunker close to the capital surviving the nuclear war makes more sense because it's a good fallback position for the US government to be in, and they don't have to fly all the way to the West Coast. Nor would they be vulnerable from remnants of the Chinese military that could have survived the nuclear exchange, not to mention it's harder to infiltrate because you can't get inside without them opening the doors for you, and before the events of the main campaign, Raven Rock's doors are sealed shut.

John Henry Eden's plan for genocide also makes far more sense than Dick Richardson's. Eden wants to commit a localized genocide because the Super Mutants are over-running the capital, and while the FEV poison in the water would kill a lot of good people, it would also kill all the mutants that neither the Brotherhood of Steel nor the Enclave could contain. Whereas Richardson wants to commit a worldwide genocide despite the fact that the Super Mutants are broken and scattered, the Brotherhood is in hiding, and the NCR is barely a threat. Not to mention that 1000 people in an oil rig and a couple hundred in Navarro inheriting the earth after the FEV is introduced into the air won't last long; they'll last maybe several generations before inbreeding kicks in and they all become a bunch of retarded idiots who die from paper cuts, ending the American dream and the human race as a whole in a rather pathetic footnote.

At least with Eden, he's only poisoning the water in one city. He's not doing it to the rest of the world. They can eventually fix the water purifier to remove the FEV once the mutated creatures in the city are dead, and mix with people from outside the Capital Wasteland if they needed extra people. They're not genociding all mutated humans in the fucking planet, which makes even less sense considering Richardson's Enclave is far stronger than Eden's and could have just taken over the West Coast through sheer force of arms, incorporate the NCR into their power base, and rebuild America from scratch. Or just help local settler communities rebuild while getting them to swear allegiance. With Eden's Enclave, both his men and the Brotherhood forces aren't strong enough to storm the city and clear out the monsters, so he wants to wipe the slate clean, while his second-in-command wants to rally the populace to join the Enclave instead.

 

[Exceptionally Exceptional]

The government hiding out in a bunker close to the capital in Raven Rock made more sense than them hiding out in some oil rig off the western coast that had its own nuclear reactor.

I believe the Enclave that served under Augustus Autumn were the remnants of the original Enclave. His father, Augustus Autumn Sr, was one of the Enclave's remaining scientists after the Oil Rig was destroyed.

What I really want to know is where and when they got the Mobile Base Crawler because it very much looks like one of NASA's MCTFs.

Where did they find it? Was it en route to DC or after they got there? Either could possibly make sense as we have no idea how common these vehicles were in 2077. They could possibly have found one on the West Coast, or anywhere between the West and East Coasts, or they could have set up at Raven Rock and sent a few teams down to Cape Kennedy (where they're actually kept IRL) to repair and retrieve them. Or the damn thing could have been at Adams Air Force Base the whole time.

Still cool to think about a bunch of power armored fascist badasses with lasers and plasma guns rumbling across the wasteland in a 2,700 ton fortress, crushing anything too stupid or too slow to get the fuck out of the way. Whole shanty towns crushed under colossal treads in the dead of the night to the confusion and fear of the surrounding communities.

Now I kinda want a spinoff. Fallout: Enclave.

 

[CWCissey]

If both America and China were dictatorships, they'd have no problems with Alaskan Oil being sold to the Commies.

Not particularly. America didn't want to sell Alaskan oil to anyone, it was the last reserve of crude oil on Earth at that point and the US wanted it all to themselves. International Diplomacy in the Fallout World collapsed around the time of the Resource Wars between Europe and the Middle East.

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

I believe the Enclave that served under Augustus Autumn were the remnants of the original Enclave. His father, Augustus Autumn Sr, was one of the Enclave's remaining scientists after the Oil Rig was destroyed.

What I really want to know is where and when they got the Mobile Base Crawler because it very much looks like one of NASA's MCTFs.
View attachment 1777161

Where did they find it? Was it en route to DC or after they got there? Either could possibly make sense as we have no idea how common these vehicles were in 2077. They could possibly have found one on the West Coast, or anywhere between the West and East Coasts, or they could have set up at Raven Rock and sent a few teams down to Cape Kennedy (where they're actually kept IRL) to repair and retrieve them. Or the damn thing could have been at Adams Air Force Base the whole time.

Still cool to think about a bunch of power armored fascist badasses with lasers and plasma guns rumbling across the wasteland in a 2,700 ton fortress, crushing anything too stupid or too slow to get the fuck out of the way. Whole shanty towns crushed under colossal treads in the dead of the night to the confusion and fear of the surrounding communities.

Now I kinda want a spinoff. Fallout: Enclave.

Of course. Outside of Eden, who was a supercomputer located in DC, the Enclave forces were remnants of the California Enclave that fled after the Enclave Oil Rig went up in flames. What genius decided to put all their eggs on one basket and put a live nuke there, is anyone's guess. Settling the government there is about as stupid as living in Megaton, with the added bonus that if any Chinese warships or subs survived the nuclear exchange, they'd have blown the Oil Rig to bits.

They probably got the crawler from scavenging an old base or something. Maybe even an old NASA installation.

Everyone wants that spinoff. Both Black Isle and Bethesda want to bury the Enclave, but the fans wanted more of them and wanted them to be the good guys. I imagine a lot of players would have turned New Vegas into an Enclave base of operations, just to spite the NCR and intimidate the Legion.

Not particularly. America didn't want to sell Alaskan oil to anyone, it was the last reserve of crude oil on Earth at that point and the US wanted it all to themselves. International Diplomacy in the Fallout World collapsed around the time of the Resource Wars between Europe and the Middle East.

America had fusion-powered cars and nuclear-powered tech by then. They'd have come up with a deal with China, had the Chinese not been their ideological enemies.

 

[Mola Ram]

Still cool to think about a bunch of power armored fascist badasses with lasers and plasma guns rumbling across the wasteland in a 2,700 ton fortress, crushing anything too stupid or too slow to get the fuck out of the way. Whole shanty towns crushed under colossal treads in the dead of the night to the confusion and fear of the surrounding communities.

I seem to recall the strategy guide for Fallout 2 mentioning that something very similar to this was one of the original ideas for the game, although rather than the Enclave it was remnants of the Master's super mutant army, scooping up wastelanders and dipping them in vats stored in the bowels of their mobile fortress.

 

[draggs]

America had fusion-powered cars and nuclear-powered tech by then. They'd have come up with a deal with China, had the Chinese not been their ideological enemies.

Fallout Bible says the US only really started to try to replace oil with fusion in 2066, after China invaded Alaska. In 2077 most of the US didnt have fusion energy yet, it was too hard and expensive to do that and fight a war and deal with the new plague at the same time. China needed to get the Alaskan oil or it would totally collapse, US needed to keep the Alaskan oil for the same reason. There was no deal to be made, it was national survival. No way Washington would've agreed to selling any of it to anyone.

 

[A Grey Cat]

Unpopular opinion; red Lucy is best fallout waifu. A strong woman who's not overly Manish but wants a man's man worth his salt and mettle to woo her.

Piper's a ditzy air head, curies the same and a robot then a synth, Cass is a raging alcoholic, veronica's a dyke only caits a close second. But maybe I'm just a sucker for accents

 

[draggs]

Unpopular opinion; red Lucy is best fallout waifu. A strong woman who's not overly Manish but wants a man's man worth his salt and mettle to woo her.

Piper's a ditzy air head, curies the same and a robot then a synth, Cass is a raging alcoholic, veronica's a dyke only caits a close second. But maybe I'm just a sucker for accents

Blowup doll from fallout 2 best waifu

 

[LORD IMPERATOR]

Fallout Bible says the US only really started to try to replace oil with fusion in 2066, after China invaded Alaska. In 2077 most of the US didnt have fusion energy yet, it was too hard and expensive to do that and fight a war and deal with the new plague at the same time. China needed to get the Alaskan oil or it would totally collapse, US needed to keep the Alaskan oil for the same reason. There was no deal to be made, it was national survival. No way Washington would've agreed to selling any of it to anyone.

Then how come every car you run across in the wasteland blows up like a mini-nuke when shot at? That suggests that fusion-powered cars were quite common before the bombs dropped. Not to mention even Chris Avellone stated the Fallout Bible is non-canon, so some of its statements could be taken into question. Not only was the Fallout Bible produced long after the original 2 games were released, both its author and Bethesda don't even treat it as canon. They just treat it as an idea bucket that they take snippets from now and then.

 

[CWCissey]

Unpopular opinion; red Lucy is best fallout waifu. A strong woman who's not overly Manish but wants a man's man worth his salt and mettle to woo her.

Piper's a ditzy air head, curies the same and a robot then a synth, Cass is a raging alcoholic, veronica's a dyke only caits a close second. But maybe I'm just a sucker for accents

Sarah Weintraub.

A business woman who stayed sweet.

 

[A Grey Cat]

Sarah Weintraub.

A business woman who stayed sweet.

Eh she's ok but all it takes to win her over is a little sweet talk about leather vault suits (coulda sworn those things were made of polyester or vynil) with red lucy you can't win her over with a perfect 10 in charisma or 100 in speech. No no you gotta get out there with big iron on your hip, look death in the face and say...not yet old friend but I dare you to try. Only to return to her barley clinging to life with slippery blood covered hands clutching the unborn child of the greatest predator since the great white shark or tyrannosaurus rex and say"you, me now."
God I love New Vegas