Feb 1st - If you got liquidated you have to tell us, it's the rule.

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I mean what can you even buy with bitcoin? Can you purchase gunpla with it?

It isn't really used to "buy" stuff beyond shit like hosting and servers. It is however a store of value (not the most ideal or convenient, but it still keeps value).

What you do is cash out what you need for living expenses (into either cash or a bank transfer) either through a service that does that or a market like localbitcoins.

There are also some debit cards that let you keep a floating balance of bitcoin which auto transfers every time you use the card, but MasterCard/Visa decided to be the true shekel overlords and clamp down on that, which meant that a whole bunch of people who had been living off those debit cards ended up stranded in various countries because they never had a backup plan.

But yeah, depending on what you have to pay you can also talk people into accepting BTC. I've paid rent in BTC in the past.
 
I've got some bad news, amigo...

If people bought at the all time high price, which was like 10x what it was 3 months earlier then they're exceptional.

It keeps value on a long term scale not "I bought bitcoin 2 days ago and now the price is down 0.6136234% what do I do!!!!!!!"
 
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If people bought at the all time high price, which was like 10x what it was 3 months earlier then they're exceptional.

It keeps value on a long term scale not "I bought bitcoin 2 days ago and now the price is down 0.6136234% what do I do!!!!!!!"

Down like 20% just today.

Edit: added actual footage of crypto memers
 
It boggles the mind even $6000 is low to people. The world moves so fast. I was trading BTC at $200 when I lived in the Philippines, and that was after the $1000 dip.

It isn't low, it's just low compared to what it was at, and people that bought in yesterday are down like 25% as of right now. That is a pretty huge loss.
 
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It isn't low, it's just low compared to what it was at, and people that bought in yesterday are down like 25% as of right now. That is a pretty huge loss.
Shit happens. I tell people interested in crypto that it's like going into a casino. Whatever money you have in your hand you must be prepared to lose entirely.
 
If people bought at the all time high price, which was like 10x what it was 3 months earlier then they're exceptional.

It keeps value on a long term scale not "I bought bitcoin 2 days ago and now the price is down 0.6136234% what do I do!!!!!!!"

Long-term scale? Crypto's only been in existence for nine years, and at no point has it ever been stable.
 
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Like... tears... in the rain.
1517898802321.png
 
That 12.5% annual return on Neopoints is looking pretty good right about now
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I've been sitting and refreshing BTC value for the past hour and been laughing my ass off.
 
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Long-term scale? Crypto's only been in existence for nine years, and at no point has it ever been stable.

Long term scale means a period of at least 6-12 months.

People whining that the price went from ~5000 to ~20000 to ~6000 in the span of four months most likely bought a shit ton when it was higher.

My family etc have been asking me if it was a good time to buy when it was 8000 and I said the same thing "the price has never been this high before, so if you're going to buy just buy a small regularly and not all at once".

And no, its never been particularly stable if you're looking at the USD price (I get that that is the current point behind bitcoin, but many poeple have an aim to purely accumulate as much BTC as possible right now and aren't too interested in the USD price)
 
And no, its never been particularly stable if you're looking at the USD price (I get that that is the current point behind bitcoin, but many poeple have an aim to purely accumulate as much BTC as possible right now and aren't too interested in the USD price)

People collecting useless shit based on speculation? Oh gee i wonder if they have a name for this in buisness 101 and if so would it be called tulip fever?
 
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People collecting useless shit based on speculation? Oh gee i wonder if they have a name for this in buisness 101 and if so would it be called tulip fever?

Tulip mania is an interesting point in history, and for sure has some interesting lessons that still apply today but it isn't a very apt comparison to the investment fever behind cryptocurrency because it has hard or at least preknown economic limits which makes it unlike money, gold or anything else that has really existed before.

If you could "know" that the amount of tulips from tulip mines would reduce by 50% every 4 years then it'd be a better example, but its not.

A lot of the "business 101" and "economics 101" with all of their reading and listening intently to their university professors fail to understand one thing about the current system of "money"--the vast majority of it simply doesn't exist.

Bullshit you might say?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_requirement

That's right, most banks are only required to actually have 5-15% at most in capital of what money they actually "hold" because the money doesn't actually exist. Every time you deposit cash into your bank its written on a little IOU note that flies around in a computer system. If you transfer money across the world or withdraw money from your ATM then you cash in one of those IOU notes.

Now some might argue that banks know what they're doing, and that governments do a great job of making sure they are "true & honest"

But when you look into it a bit deeper you see stuff like this:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/moneytaker-apt-steals-millions-from-us-uk-russian-banks/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbanak

That's right, hackers have been inside banks computers, manipulating those little virtual IOU notes for years. Not only banks and other "financial institutions" but also SWIFT (which is used by almost every bank that allows international transfers).

So the computer system that backs the entire world's transfer of money? Hacked.

The issue with these little "virtual IOU notes" is that they are highly flawed.
The problem is called the "Byzantine Generals Problem" and its been around for decades:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault_tolerance#Byzantine_Generals'_Problem

Bitcoin is simply a program that provides one solution to the Byzantine Generals Problem. If people don't understand that element, or how banks work (which few people bother to read into) then they will probably never understand why exactly Bitcoin is what it is.

So lets recap:
  • Cash: Hacked (forged bank notes aren't exactly a new problem)
  • Credit cards: Hacked
  • Your bank: Hacked
  • Your bank's bank: Hacked
  • Your ATM: Hacked
  • Mastercard: Hacked
  • Visa: Hacked
  • SWIFT: Hacked
  • The companies that keep track of people's credit and make all those other systems work (i.e. Equifax): Hacked

  • Bitcoin: Not hacked yet
There is no real comparison to it when people bring up Tulips because Tulips never provided a solution to a known problem with communications and computers, they're just flowers.

People are free to call it "useless shit" too, there's no requirement for people to divvy their life savings into investing into it, its just a computer program.

The only way to look at it is a multiplayer version of Microsoft Excel with a so-far unbeaten anticheat. That's it. If anyone looks at it as anything other than that, then they're exceptional. If anyone takes a computer program that solves computer problems and uses "human problems" (i.e. getting hacked, taking out loans or printing non existent money like Tether) then they're exceptional.
 
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Tulip mania is an interesting point in history, and for sure has some interesting lessons that still apply today but it isn't a very apt comparison to the investment fever behind cryptocurrency because it has hard or at least preknown economic limits which makes it unlike money, gold or anything else that has really existed before

Well i mean at its height you could of traded one of those fancy rare tulips for a thousand pounds of cheese. Which is a lot for the 1600's. A month ago you could of traded one bitcoin for 20k usd. Thats the comparison i was trying to make...that wild mass speculation drastically overinflated the thing that was being traded.

If you could "know" that the amount of tulips from tulip mines would reduce by 50% every 4 years then it'd be a better example, but its not.

Yea and if i had a crystal ball that could "know" the future id have a hundred foot yacht filled with whores and cocaine. But since i dont i have to make do with the data at hand, like everyone else. Point still stands that bitcoin was being traded fir way more than it was actually worth. By a large margin as the market is showing.

A lot of the "business 101" and "economics 101" with all of their reading and listening intently to their university professors fail to understand one thing about the current system of "money"--the vast majority of it simply doesn't exist.

Bullshit you might say?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_requirement

That's right, most banks are only required to actually have 5-15% at most in capital of what money they actually "hold" because the money doesn't actually exist. Every time you deposit cash into your bank its written on a little IOU note that flies around in a computer system. If you transfer money across the world or withdraw money from your ATM then you cash in one of those IOU notes.

Yes its called fiat currency, i wholeheartedly agree with you there...but if you have to explain that to someone who is thinking of buying crypto it shows how uneducated the investor pool is for crypto and the market in general.

Now some might argue that banks know what they're doing, and that governments do a great job of making sure they are "true & honest"

But when you look into it a bit deeper you see stuff like this:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/moneytaker-apt-steals-millions-from-us-uk-russian-banks/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbanak

That's right, hackers have been inside banks computers, manipulating those little virtual IOU notes for years. Not only banks and other "financial institutions" but also SWIFT (which is used by almost every bank that allows international transfers).

So the computer system that backs the

Banks getting hacked are only a real issue in developing countries. First world ones like where you or i live have the money insured. If you have stocks in a bank the stocks will suffer but your iou money in the chequing or savings account wont be taken by the banks to cover their losses, meanwhile i believe dodgecoin and other alt coins cant really say that. Red flags right there for an investor.

Look all im saying is what the market is showing - the bitcoin bubble burst and it is correcting itself. People bought into the hype that crypto was going to be the world currency in 202X but there are wayyy to many powerful players in the centralized currency market who wouldnt let that happen ever. Crypto represent a change in power to something unregulated. Who would ever want that?
 
Tulip mania is an interesting point in history, and for sure has some interesting lessons that still apply today but it isn't a very apt comparison to the investment fever behind cryptocurrency because it has hard or at least preknown economic limits which makes it unlike money, gold or anything else that has really existed before.

If you could "know" that the amount of tulips from tulip mines would reduce by 50% every 4 years then it'd be a better example, but its not.

A lot of the "business 101" and "economics 101" with all of their reading and listening intently to their university professors fail to understand one thing about the current system of "money"--the vast majority of it simply doesn't exist.

Bullshit you might say?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_requirement

That's right, most banks are only required to actually have 5-15% at most in capital of what money they actually "hold" because the money doesn't actually exist. Every time you deposit cash into your bank its written on a little IOU note that flies around in a computer system. If you transfer money across the world or withdraw money from your ATM then you cash in one of those IOU notes.

Now some might argue that banks know what they're doing, and that governments do a great job of making sure they are "true & honest"

But when you look into it a bit deeper you see stuff like this:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/moneytaker-apt-steals-millions-from-us-uk-russian-banks/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbanak

That's right, hackers have been inside banks computers, manipulating those little virtual IOU notes for years. Not only banks and other "financial institutions" but also SWIFT (which is used by almost every bank that allows international transfers).

So the computer system that backs the entire world's transfer of money? Hacked.

The issue with these little "virtual IOU notes" is that they are highly flawed.
The problem is called the "Byzantine Generals Problem" and its been around for decades:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_fault_tolerance#Byzantine_Generals'_Problem

Bitcoin is simply a program that provides one solution to the Byzantine Generals Problem. If people don't understand that element, or how banks work (which few people bother to read into) then they will probably never understand why exactly Bitcoin is what it is.

So lets recap:
  • Cash: Hacked (forged bank notes aren't exactly a new problem)
  • Credit cards: Hacked
  • Your bank: Hacked
  • Your bank's bank: Hacked
  • Your ATM: Hacked
  • Mastercard: Hacked
  • Visa: Hacked
  • SWIFT: Hacked
  • The companies that keep track of people's credit and make all those other systems work (i.e. Equifax): Hacked

  • Bitcoin: Not hacked yet
There is no real comparison to it when people bring up Tulips because Tulips never provided a solution to a known problem with communications and computers, they're just flowers.

People are free to call it "useless shit" too, there's no requirement for people to divvy their life savings into investing into it, its just a computer program.

The only way to look at it is a multiplayer version of Microsoft Excel with a so-far unbeaten anticheat. That's it. If anyone looks at it as anything other than that, then they're exceptional. If anyone takes a computer program that solves computer problems and uses "human problems" (i.e. getting hacked, taking out loans or printing non existent money like Tether) then they're exceptional.

My favorite part of this post is where you claim business 101 people are somehow unaware that fractional reserve banking is a thing.
 
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My favorite part of this post is where you claim business 101 people are somehow unaware that fractional reserve banking is a thing.

I'm sure they're aware that fractional reserve banking is a "thing" but what they never seem to appreciate is that isn't just an issue with debt/credit/money/reserves but its largely a computer and communication problem.

IOUs aren't such a bad thing unless the banks all use different systems (which they do). The banks can't even efficiently keep track of the IOUs because of how poor their infrastructure is (which is why credit card networks are allowed to charge a fee and only pay out the money received by a store after a waiting period of anywhere from 7-30 days).

The issue is that banks don't have the ability to really talk to each other, which means the global economy is hinged together by a series of IT systems which are all completely different and largely incompatible. We're reliant on a system in which we have to rely on human beings in offices to count money (I'll concede that its largely automated, but the human presence is still a requirement).

Maybe 30 years ago when the internet was still in its infancy it wasn't such a big deal, but as the banks and financial institutions can't talk to each other, for all intents and purposes there are several "types" of money which is fucking dumb. It defies the point of "money" when you have to have several different kinds (and I'm not simply referring to different currencies).

It's like thinking that having a train system in a major city that arrives 3-5 minutes late/early every day isn't a big deal. It is, its fucking dumb. If there's a better solution then we should be using it if not investigating the possibility of using it.
 
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