Final Fantasy XIV - Kiwi Free Company

I forgot what was the cutoff point but wasnt there a point to where the WoL stops smiling after doing the dungeon clear cheer but then after some point (i think it was actually post EW) they start doing it again?, if that was true then it was a neat way to illustrate that maybe the WoL just really loves going splunking and murdering random shit when they feel like it (nah more like just adventuring but you get the idea)
As far as I remember, WoL usually has different reactions after a dungeon/trial clear depending on the content (especially after ARR when they got better budget to do more than /happy), but all throughout ShB you wouldn't be reaching or indulging in headcanon to believe that the WoL was depressed. Lots of closing the eyes and looking sad, or just a humorless, determined-looking expression after something like the Titania fight. I think the only times the WoL smiles during ShB canonically is during certain talks with Ardbert, Ryne and Feo Ul, or when Y'shtola comes back from the lifestream, for the second time. Even the side content for Shadowbringers was pretty heavy and had no Hildibrand, so WoL never caught a break for close to two years.

I need to replay Endwalker myself, but you're right on WoL continuing to be stonefaced up until 6.1. I say that because WoL smiling during most of 6.1 and after Aglaia jumped out at me, it was really nice. I tend to prefer the WoL's character being more of a blank slate that you develop and form into your own character with the dialogue options, but if WoL was all happy-looking and jumping around during Shadowbringers and most of 6.0, it'd be hilarious and kind of jarring.
 
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I don't think it's entirely a meta commentary. The WoL isn't an asshole, because unlike Zenos they don't put others in danger just to get tougher battles, but it takes a certain type of person to become an adventurer and to devote your life to battle the way WoL does. There are plenty of heroes in FF14 who don't spend their life in battle. Sure you're doing it out of duty to your friends and allies, but reasonably one would have to enjoy it to some degree to keep at it for as long as the WoL does.
It depends on the side quest (and the MSQ especially post ARR it is pretty much explicitly to either clear your name or help people who need you), but by around Shadowbringers especially I always felt that the WoL had mostly evolved past the "I do this for fun" phase and it is more a implied duty to the world given what they learn about their actions in Shadowbringers. You don't do Sorrows of Werlyt for fun, you don't do Bozja for fun, you do it because you see a problem and have to act. It is that Superman thing I brought up, WoL is effectively a person who helps every old lady cross the street or will dive in front of a bus to save some dumbass kids. I'd say maybe Eureka is "for fun" at first, but it evolves so fast to a world uplifting event that it stops being fun anymore and becomes a serious event. The WoL even tells Fordola why they fight, and the options are aimed at implying heroics (I think I picked the one that effectively says "For those we have lost...") as opposed to thrill seeking.

The ability to keep going again and again represents the WoL's fortitude which is by far their strongest trait (and the easiest one to show as a mostly mute character) within the 4 cardinal virtues framework. While obviously the story holds its punches a lot for the audience, within the context of the WoL's world and if you had to be in those shoes you'd probably have a some kind of mental breakdown multiple times because you as a person in this world don't have any reason to believe the writer primals will bail your ass out. I'd probably heavily consider shooting myself by the end of EW if I had to play out the last zone by the time you 'endwalkered' to the last dungeon given everything else I as the WoL had to deal with leading up to this point alongside what had just happened (again assuming I don't have the meta knowledge that the last dungeon has to exist, the trust system, knowing the writers, etc etc).

By the time Zenos and the WoL fight in SB, the WoL has evolved past what Zenos is talking about and if we use the DRK story as canon for the WoL's mental state then the whole "YOU ENJOY BATTLE LIKE ME MY MIRROR" feels extremely out of place given what SB's Drk storyline is about the WoL's survivor's guilt. That and the creeping feeling that they're piling on endless bodies with their actions in the name of achieving justice and saving the world, that regardless of all meaning is still killing at its most basic level. I think Zenos is fine as a meta commentary for the player if that was the intention, and for say 99% of people he'd be absolutely right, but in-universe his mirrored relationship with the WoL sucks to me. Zenos is just a projecting retard when he talks about this mirror stuff, which I think would be fine if that was the intent, but EW's ending tells me it wasn't and we're supposed to take this comparison seriously or it is solely a meta commentary. One of these is just idiotic and the other I think is fine, just it came out during a time where game meta commentary was overplayed so I don't care anymore.
 
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Well, I sure got to 'listen in' on one hell of a conversation in FC chat while I was doing crafting stuff.
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I forgot what was the cutoff point but wasnt there a point to where the WoL stops smiling after doing the dungeon clear cheer but then after some point (i think it was actually post EW) they start doing it again?, if that was true then it was a neat way to illustrate that maybe the WoL just really loves going splunking and murdering random shit when they feel like it (nah more like just adventuring but you get the idea)
Yeah I think it's around shadowbringers that the WoL starts being depressed at clearing dungeons most of the time. Though as far as I can remember I believe Tam-tara deepcroft hard is the actual first instance where WoL looks sad after the clear due to the fucked up tragedy that surrounds that plotline.

As a general sidenote I wouldn't say it's accurate to describe the WoL as mute because you're shown elaborately explaining things to other characters on top of having those dialogue options. It's just that it wouldn't be worth the resources to implement voice acting for a character like that.
 
As a general sidenote I wouldn't say it's accurate to describe the WoL as mute because you're shown elaborately explaining things to other characters on top of having those dialogue options. It's just that it wouldn't be worth the resources to implement voice acting for a character like that.
I only call WoL a mute because they effectively act like one, you pretty much have to read the WoL's character and mindset through gestures, what quests' context ultimately conveys about them if anything (Drk/ShB stuff/Omega/EW stuff/Etc), flashback sequences if they exist in the latter half of the story, and how the world reacts to them to get anything. I don't like to say they have no character, because while it is limited I do feel they do develop notably and not just because of dialogue options, so I just sort of call them mute. Perhaps "Silent Protagonist" works better, but it is about the same thing to me.

Yes technically speaking WoL isn't a mute, but their voice holds so little sway at all in just about any scene that happens that you might as well call them mute. It is at best used so the Scions know what just happened while you were beating stuff up without them.
 
I'll never understand why people see HW as anything special, when it is, in fact, the worst thing this side of 1.0, story-wise. I dunno about balance wise, as I wasn't a raider then, but my god, the writing in HW is so far below even ARR.

The only thing I can figure is that people mix in the DRK questline, which was phenomenal.

Mind, HW isn't *bad*. Bronze at the Olympics is still 3rd best in the world, ya know? But being forced into helping child murdering rapists, then having the game proudly announce: 'What a twist! The child murdering rapists were the bad guys all along!' is pretty damn shitty writing.

Especially when sandwiched between Castrum (memes aside, it was pretty fucking sick your first time through, and gets a bonus for being part of your introduction to Eorzea), and the entire Yotsuyu/Gosetsu saga, not to mention Zenos at his (second) most badass, and I really can't figure out why people treat it as some amazing epitome of the game.

It's a pretty rote story, I'll admit, but I enjoyed the fuck out of it.

I just dig that aesthetic, that basic sort of story, etc.

What I enjoyed about it is that it was going a bit beyond just 'church founded on lies and huge, vast conspiracy, gasp!' and explored a bit on how change was coming and affecting Ishgard. There was a bit of nuance nestled in amidst all the more 'trope-like' stuff.

It's not much, but it was engaging.
 
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I'm curious why you think the way the WoL portrays themselves in the game makes you think they're a piece of shit.

There are plenty of heroes in FF14 who don't spend their life in battle. Sure you're doing it out of duty to your friends and allies, but reasonably one would have to enjoy it to some degree to keep at it for as long as the WoL does.

Basically the above.

There are also a lot of instances in the game where I don't agree entirely with joining in the fight, but that is my personal feelings/head canon/whatever. Garlemald and parts of the SB story kind of drove that home to me and the whole a "hero to someone is a villain to someone else" trope, at the end of the day we are straight up murdering a ton of random dudes who are just fighting in their own military (sometimes with out choice) or mind controlled.

Unrelated to the topic at hand, is there any reason some plots of land are not available to bid on in the current lottery? A few friends are encountering this issue and as far as I can tell by looking myself there are no winners or waiting to be claimed on that plot of land so it should be available, I cannot find a post anywhere about this.
 
Further, I've always hated positionals. Why do people like them? Having to always constantly moving is irritating as hell.
I genuinely don't understand how you can mess up rotations on the RDPS classes short of dying or mandatory run-away-for-a-minute mechanics. Positionals force you to make tradeoffs between greeding for added potency or playing it safe, and in general make the melee classes more involved and active than the others. It was also noteworthy that monk was the class whose identity was largely based on those things, whereas the other trio just had them on a handful of moves.

Dragoon where you could just stand in one spot and push those buttons in sequence would be the most boring shit, how would you ever mess that up
 
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Basically the above.

There are also a lot of instances in the game where I don't agree entirely with joining in the fight, but that is my personal feelings/head canon/whatever. Garlemald and parts of the SB story kind of drove that home to me and the whole a "hero to someone is a villain to someone else" trope, at the end of the day we are straight up murdering a ton of random dudes who are just fighting in their own military (sometimes with out choice) or mind controlled.
I'd argue personally that if you do nothing, then what happens? Garlemald just wins, Zenos wins, X bad guy wins? That seems even worse then fighting to try and stop the current conflict.

To keep this short, because I kind of get it and don't want to sperg too hard against this (so I give you three paragraphs instead of ten).

What other choice do we really have when a bunch of soldiers just run at you and your potential method of combat is lighting people on fire or punching people so hard that you can kill them? We try to talk it out, mostly through Alphinaud usually see Baelsar's wall and Eulmore. We're not Batmaning our way past the obvious fact that if we go into a fight, it is basically kill or be killed or at best you just badly beat them up. I think if we just knocked out literally everyone that'd be even more ridiculous then all the other named deaths we throw away in this story.

Perhaps because I played DRK's story ever since it came out where they directly address this issue, but I always found that WoL was effectively a person who has no real effective choice to avoid being guilty of death. Inaction leads to death because the villains win, and action leads to death because obvious reason. So really the only way out is just shooting yourself back into the aether and telling someone else to put up with all this crap. Which if you do that, that is what a weak person does, and WoL is not a hero if they're weak (as in overall strong, not 'I hit thing good' strong).

So the way I see it is, if you make all that murder count for something and go with a just purpose then at best you're not a genocidal maniac in the end, which given WoL's position as a super combat soldier that is the best you can reasonably expect I think. It isn't the most romantic notion, but I think it adds weight to the choices you make, because in the end all fights you engage with means someone has to die. So you better make that death count for something. It isn't the most life changing thing in the world, but I like it as it walks that line between "violence bad" and "violence sometimes needs to be done".

Agreed.

Further, I've always hated positionals. Why do people like them? Having to always constantly moving is irritating as hell.
Because they've taken out most other forms of mechanics that involve giving a shit about anything besides slamming your buttons on every job that isn't BLM, and BLM is a million times more mobile today then it was even 4 years ago so even some of that has been lost overtime. For all the crap gun/bow mage (Brd/Mch had caster stances that dramatically increased their damage in HW for all newfags) got, at least you had to give a shit about something that EW rdps don't have to do which is why I despise current Bard because proc whack a mole was actually kind of engaging despite no positionals but they killed that because piss babies cry about doing anything besides throwing their keyboard. Plus they've reduced the relevance of positionals overtime anyway compared to what it was, which I personally don't like that either.

You especially feel this in 4 mans where you can just spaghetti your entire rotation and still win, giving a modicum of a fuck about positionals is what kept me awake on melee dps especially playing Monk where you had to rotate a good bit around to do your rotation right. Also if you're not terrible you barely need to move at all in most fights because you can just stand between that little line that splits the rear and the flank and shuffle around a little, which is enough for the majority of fights in this game.
 
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It isn't the most life changing thing in the world, but I like it as it walks that line between "violence bad" and "violence sometimes needs to be done".
Absolutely do not disagree with any of your points, I just think that makes someone kind of an asshole, which I also don't necessarily think is a bad thing. Sometimes the objectively right thing to do is be a dick and disregard someone's feelings/choices/life for the greater good.
 
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Well, don't sleep on the quest that brings Alpha and Omega back into the fore. While the delivery involving Ameliance feels stilted and awkward in its writing, this little side-quest explores the themes of Endwalker... better than does Endwalker, and even revisits the Shadowbringers story with a more critical lens. Endwalker's story has no proper denouement; shit just ends and everyone goes "whoah wasn't that just craaaaaaazy? Wow that was so crazy! Anyways." This little line is the proper cooldown, and captures the moody, introspective, contemplative mood that made Garlemald so interesting compared to WITH THE POWER OF FRIENDSHIP WE'RE UNSTOPPABLE ALSO EMET-SELCH IS MY FRIEND REMEMBER EMET-SELCH? I feel like it even lampshades how insufferable the rabbits' section was. The Tataru quest also seems pretty solid, though it looks like it drops dead just at the moment.


NEW FUCKING HILDIBRAND YESSSS
 
I actually think it's hilarious if you call out coomers on ffxiv subreddit they will shit themselves and call you a sex negative freak.

No, I am just not a fucking retard who is incapable of enjoying a video game with out wanting to fuck every character and shit up every conversation with r34 art of said character, the absolute state of gamers.

Ameliance is not even that cute, I stg.
 
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It's just a pretty standard elezen lady so I don't get it myself, I like that she's kind and seems clever as well. I just think her husband is a bit of a toolbox but I'm also not running around in game screaming about wanting to bone her.

Too busy doing deliveries for Hippo Ubereats.
 
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