I'd argue even HW had the multiple plot threads going on (as well as the two zone split.)
That's something that they could've actually played around with as something different. Instead of the 2 different paths --> zones that are only 50% accessible --> otherworldly 6th zone process, why not have done something like have all of Tural open from the get-go and you could choose which challenges to handle and just make the game a bit more freeform overall. The challenges could maybe have organic reasons as to why you can't progress to certain points (and would make the whole multiculturalism theme of the expansion feel a bit more natural) and you'd have to, gasp, explore and figure out things while helping Trooncat.
So many missed opportunities that I don't think would've fucked them development-wise. Is coding in an alternate string where an NPC goes "Ah, I've heard you've completed N challenges. Very good" or whatever that backbreaking?
Fucker better be praying to his dilator that Kate never gets canned, then.
I think the main reason they dont do this is how rigidly they adhere to level gating the zones and MSQ. The two zone initial split only works in their framework because both quests are usually level 0 in their framework, usually going on for one level or so before merging back to the main thread.
Making it a pseudo open world would immediately throw all that out. Now all quests would have to be level 0. Exp gains they probably need to be reworked, etc. Not excusing them btw; I think if they wanted to experiment, DT is the perfect time to do so and your proposal would have been perfect for more freeform MSQ experience.
Alas CBU3 is staffed by retards when the big bosses are away apparently.
Almost finished leveling Miner(stopped at 99 because sleep). Will probably catch Botanist up after this, then maybe Fisher. Or do Fisher, then Botanist, depending on how I feel about the Survival Manuals. Will also need to finish up Wonderous Scams on top of that.
I heard JoCat has come back.
Apparently he made some long video talking about how he was bullied out and says that it wasn't troons that bullied him out but people who called him names for being a straight guy into feminine things who wasn't traditionally masculine.
Which...I mean..okay fair. I shouldn't throw stones about him being a faggy boy whilst I sit in my glass house of not being traditionally feminine. There's nothing wrong with being a straight guy into girly things. But I can't say I entirely believe his attempt at completely absolving the troons who really did have negative things to say about him.
He just sounds like he wants the audience back that threw him out in the first place so this is him shooting his pandering shot.
I seen lots of hope and mentions of this pre-release and it seems the only thing they experimented with was just how shite they could make the MSQ in the "story game".
For fucks sake, they are sticking to the formula so hard we even got Amaurot 3.0, it's like they went and copied everything in Shadowbringers, again, except the part where the story is good.
There was no daring experimentation, there wasn't even a slight bit of it, they are stuck in a loop of making shadowbringers over and over and unless they break it next time I reckon the story section of the game will undergo the process most movie franchises that go on for way too long do. Shit, we got the great first story, ok second one and shark-jumping idiocy in the third instance, if they stick to the tried and true formula the next ShB copy-paste will happen entirely in space.
I think the main reason they dont do this is how rigidly they adhere to level gating the zones and MSQ. The two zone initial split only works in their framework because both quests are usually level 0 in their framework, usually going on for one level or so before merging back to the main thread.
Making it a pseudo open world would immediately throw all that out. Now all quests would have to be level 0. Exp gains they probably need to be reworked, etc. Not excusing them btw; I think if they wanted to experiment, DT is the perfect time to do so and your proposal would have been perfect for more freeform MSQ experience.
Alas CBU3 is staffed by retards when the big bosses are away apparently.
I'd argue that level scaling is already in the game (most notably with Tribe dailies, Ocean Fishing and the Diadem) so there should be a structure in place to make things more freeform if they wanted to. Maybe there's something obvious I'm missing, but I think it'd be doable without adding anything crazy to the overall workload.
You can still have that tapered progression -- I'm thinking of like Wrath of the Lich King Warcraft where all roads (basically) led to Icecrown. Want to go fuck around in Grizzly Hills then head over to the jungle zone? You could do that, but you need to progress the MSQ to actually get to Living Memory, etc.
And yeah, it would be a bit of a hassle from a writing perspective, but Dawntrail was the perfect time to have tried to play around with things a little bit instead of playing it safe and going all-in on Trooncat.
If it failed? No harm, no foul. Either go back to the tried and true formula or learn lessons and adjust.
I don't have any personal fondness for Meso American culture or Native culture, but there was so much shit that could've been done and so many cool opportunities. I'm hoping we'll see some of it down the road, but it's really annoying that the 'heckin' appreciating other cultures' expansion is about as culturally deep as depictions of minorities in an Adam Sandler flick.
Like Quezalcoatl is an Aztec god and shows up in that one Ascian dungeon (Akademia Anyder) and has some interesting-as-fuck lore:
Created by the Words of Lahabrea as a means to combat the looming threat of the beasts. A powerful concept on par with a primal, it required the summoner to channel the aether that comprised their very soul in order to be manifested. It should be noted that this principle formed the basis of the ritual used to call forth Zodiark Himself.
A concept on par with a primal that consumed the summoner's soul? A precursor to Zodiark? Gee I wonder if any of that could be used in an expansion dealing with Meso American culture and souls.
Or shit like a trickster Coyote and just exploring a cosmology outside of the fucking Twelve.
Or exploring actually interesting cultural contributions shit outside of tacos, like aqueducts. I'm guessing shit like lucha libre or other stuff that would be interesting as fuck to incorporate into FFXIV were pooh pooh'd by the 'culture consultants' as playing into stereotypes (which is why you go beyond just a surface level, It's A Small World-tier exploration....)
I dunno why this irks me so much, as, again, I don't really have any attachment to the above shit, but it is stuff that I just know off the top of my head and could explore further. Maybe because this is the 'Americas' expansion and it's all just such shite.
I'd argue that level scaling is already in the game (most notably with Tribe dailies, Ocean Fishing and the Diadem) so there should be a structure in place to make things more freeform if they wanted to. Maybe there's something obvious I'm missing, but I think it'd be doable without adding anything crazy to the overall workload.
I agree. I'm mostly just giving a reason why they don't do it, because CBU3/FFXIV team has been very conservative of their design since HW/SB. It worked for them for three xpac, but it's clear people are getting tired of the rigid structure and they have basically written themselves into a corner with it.
I dunno why this irks me so much, as, again, I don't really have any attachment to the above shit, but it is stuff that I just know off the top of my head and could explore further. Maybe because this is the 'Americas' expansion and it's all just such shite.
I think it's the same reason any of us here care: we all can see the potential of greatness, in the shitpile of dung they shat out. Had the xpac been excessively mediocre and devoid of even a speck of competence, it would be whatever. Right now, it's probably the best ever in terms of game dungeon and trial design, and yet it's singularly marred by the boat anchor that is both worldbuilding and MSQ. Hilariously, it used to be the reverse for ARR, where they had an immensely autistic and fleshed out world in Eorzea, but the gameplay was kind of shit.
It's remarkably infuriating that SEnix has been given a golden chance to really prove that they can maintain momentum after Endwalker, but proceeded to shit all over themselves instead.
I’ve been replaying the msq and ARR and heavensward are both a lot preachier than I remembered. The nuance and grey morality of them is especially basic and surface level. Also the geopolitcal stuff some people gush over in ARR and HW, and to a lesser extent StB, are the worst parts of the msq. I hated everything involving Ul Dah. I find the primal threats far more interesting in the ARR patch cycle and every time the plot gets good with them I have to put up with Alphinaud dragging me off to yet another meeting with the sultana and the syndicate. And HW gets pretty cartoony with the evil church trope. It doesn’t help that Ul dah gets so much exposure and screen time compared to the other city states.
Maybe it’s a personal preference thing but I’m so tired of political intrigue that I would be glad if they completely stopped doing anything related to politics in future expansion packs. I want to explore fantastical worlds with weird fantasy plots while punching gods in the face.
I seen lots of hope and mentions of this pre-release and it seems the only thing they experimented with was just how shite they could make the MSQ in the "story game".
For fucks sake, they are sticking to the formula so hard we even got Amaurot 3.0, it's like they went and copied everything in Shadowbringers, again, except the part where the story is good.
There was no daring experimentation, there wasn't even a slight bit of it, they are stuck in a loop of making shadowbringers over and over and unless they break it next time I reckon the story section of the game will undergo the process most movie franchises that go on for way too long do. Shit, we got the great first story, ok second one and shark-jumping idiocy in the third instance, if they stick to the tried and true formula the next ShB copy-paste will happen entirely in space.
You can still have that tapered progression -- I'm thinking of like Wrath of the Lich King Warcraft where all roads (basically) led to Icecrown. Want to go fuck around in Grizzly Hills then head over to the jungle zone? You could do that, but you need to progress the MSQ to actually get to Living Memory, etc.
I liked that about WoW as well. Just getting to a zone and doing the quaint little stories there before moving on to the next place. It's such a simple, barebones formula but it works quite well so long as it's executed correctly.
It's one of the reasons why I liked our little Arizona adventure with Erenville. There was no big over arching plot, no high stakes. Just a simple story of getting a treasured bracelet back from an organized group of bandits in a way where we didn't break the established laws of the land. We got to use our brains rather than rush in and just destroy everything. I loved it and it's criminal that it was only such a small fraction of the actual MSQ. I cared more about helping Zekowa free his framed friends from jail than about some retarded AI bitch who wants to eradicate all life in the universe and convert it into energy to feed her simulations.
Yeah, it's harder, but I don't think it'd be significantly harder. I'd argue that it might be a bit more freeing, too, particularly from a zone design perspective, but also so they don't have to come up with convoluted reasons to divvy up a zone. I like being able to go back and utilize more of a zone at a different point, but I really dislike the huge, massive boundaries. Sometimes it works, like in the not-Peru zone, because it's a mountain region. But other times it just comes off as stupid, like in Kozama'uka, where it's basically 'lol, elevator's out of service.'
I dunno, would've been nice to have seen something new or played around with rather than just doubling down on what we did get.
Can we talk about how bullshit it is that 100% of the Dawnservant trials were handmade for Wuk Lanat?
Not a single trial required her to not be in her comfort zone.
Can we talk about how bullshit it is that 100% of the Dawnservant trials were handmade for Wuk Lanat?
Not a single trial required her to not be in her comfort zone.
Can we talk about how bullshit it is that 100% of the Dawnservant trials were handmade for Wuk Lanat?
Not a single trial required her to not be in her comfort zone.
In all fairness, you could probably argue that the one with the alpaca was out of her comfort zone.
Though they definitely downplay it and have most of that be just trading and then have Wuk Lamat go off and get the alpaca without issue.
Aside from that, yeah. The idea of the trials being not to determine a successor but to make one is definitely an interesting concept, but I think that "understanding our culture" being the answer to each one was a bit of a miss...
It would have been much more interesting for each trial to embody a tenet of a good leader. You can still have one be about "understand our culture", and naturally the last one is about strength. But I would have liked to see one where the trial forces Wuk Lamat to make a tough decision. They'd probably make the solution be "Wuk Lamat finds the third option" but that'd at least be a little more interesting.
Can we talk about how bullshit it is that 100% of the Dawnservant trials were handmade for Wuk Lanat?
Not a single trial required her to not be in her comfort zone.
I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion but the whole Mamook storyline with the dead lizard eggs was fucking stupid and I cannot fathom why retards praise it. It's the epitome of Dawntrail's limp-wristed consequence free storytelling.
so the villagers of Mamook are traditionalist Mamool Ja who reject the multicultural nature of Tuliyollal and live in the shitty part of the rainforest where they still worship the Blessed Siblings as a harbinger of manifest destiny and go out of their way to cross-breed clans and produce 99% stillbirths just to get a chance to birth another Lizard Jesus.
If you were to relate it to human terms they're an isolationist eugenics cult attempting to breed supersoldiers to overthrow the monarch and establish racial supremacy. If the story of Dawntrail is all about multiculturalism these characters should be straightforward antagonists, at best sympathetic villains.
Instead they're barely even established as religious zealots before getting converted by the power of friendship and crops, and Bakool Ja Ja has such an obnoxious and artificial heel-turn from a casually violent narcissistic thug into a tragic hero before the whole village just goes along with it in a way that's both unbelievable and boring.
To me this represents the biggest problem with Dawntrail and Endwalker before it, the way that problems seem to just immediately resolve. Yes there are tonally dark sections like Garlemald, but things have always been put back on the right direction by WoL and friends by the time they leave. The cities in each expansion are a great example of how all the grit and cynicism has been sucked out of the game; Ul'dah, Ishgard and Kugane had crime, corruption, unfairness, just a general sense of sleaziness or that things weren't perfect and the heroes couldn't just wave a magic wand and make things perfect. But since Shadowbringers every city feels like the Crystarium; Old Sharlayan, Radz-At-Han, Tuliyollal and Solution Nine are all peaceful and egalitarian and may as well be floating on fucking clouds
The Crystarium was fun because it represented G'raha and the world giving something back to save the WoL after all the goodwill we had accrued up to that point, and because Shadowbringers had the theme of hope in the darkest of times. Even then there was still cynicism with Eulmore and intrigue behind the true nature of the Exarch/Crystarium that wasn't resolved until the end.
I was hoping that now the large-scale apocalypse has been averted we could get away from power of friendship crap and back to semi-believable conflicts but nooooope.
I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion but the whole Mamook storyline with the dead lizard eggs was fucking stupid and I cannot fathom why retards praise it. It's the epitome of Dawntrail's limp-wristed consequence free storytelling.
Giving that type of backstory to Bakool Ja Ja doesn't make a lick of sense. The guy is a Dick Dastardly type comedic villian, not someone who comes from a fucked up background who had all the responsibilities dumped on him. Nobody on the planet would act like he does in the beginning, it's such blatant and bullshit emotional manipulation. It feels like they just wrote the thing as they went along and never bothered to go back and make adjustments.
I don't know if it's an unpopular opinion but the whole Mamook storyline with the dead lizard eggs was fucking stupid and I cannot fathom why retards praise it. It's the epitome of Dawntrail's limp-wristed consequence free storytelling.
Its pretty much the only real source of Catharsis in the entire DT storyline and its not centered about Wuk Lamat, they give you the opportunity to do a dungeon in it too which extends its impact a bit
Its not particuarly great in the grand scheme of things, but its like eating a dollar menu cheeseburger after having pagpag (google it) for 4 hours
