Final Fantasy XIV's Newest Races Are Gender-Locked, And Players Are Not Happy

[Tanner Glass]

Just to jump in here, as the seemingly resident FFXIV guy on the forums.

There is a bit of an issue here. Some people have pointed out that in FFXI that they had genderlocked races due to lore (Mitrha, or cat people) but they were also genderlocked in FFXIV's launch (pre "A Realm Reborn").

When the game relaunched, the (then) new director, Yoshida, threw the gender-locking and lore in the garbage and gave the "feminine" race (Mi'quote, or catgirls) a male option and the huge muscular race (Roegadyn) was given a female option.

Now, years later, the same director is moving back to gender locking to have a "feminine" race (Viera, bunny girls) be female only and a huge muscular race (Hrothgar) as male only. As minor as it is, it is literally the same man (Yoshida) saying that he cannot do something, even though he was able to do it before, during a time before he had any clout at the company mind you. He is now regarded as one of the "most important people at Square Enix" so he could do it but didn't.

Personally - I don't think he cares about the lore but it seems like the team is likely just behind on deliverable and those models (Male Viera, Female Hrothgar) are what got cut from shipping with the new expansion. Another thing that is "telling" (and bad) is that the new races will not visibly be able to wear helmets which seems like a cut corner they didn't need to take. Honestly, with all the good will that FFXIV has been collecting over the years I think most people (if it's the case, mind you) would have preferred that Yoshida just came out and said "We were trying to do this and didn't have time, we'll likely revisit it at a later date" instead of just dropping it like this; although you can hardly blame him after the disaster that was WoW's "new races in BoFA" PR debacle.

People are also tentatively upset with some game design decisions (DNC being a Ranged DPS, elimination of TP as a resource, no new healer class) but it still remains to be seen how all of the combat changes shake out as they haven't talked much about it and there could be some real positives there.

 

[Dolce & Gabbana]

Just to jump in here, as the seemingly resident FFXIV guy on the forums.

There is a bit of an issue here. Some people have pointed out that in FFXI that they had genderlocked races due to lore (Mitrha, or cat people) but they were also genderlocked in FFXIV's launch (pre "A Realm Reborn").

When the game relaunched, the (then) new director, Yoshida, threw the gender-locking and lore in the garbage and gave the "feminine" race (Mi'quote, or catgirls) a male option and the huge muscular race (Roegadyn) was given a female option.

Now, years later, the same director is moving back to gender locking to have a "feminine" race (Viera, bunny girls) be female only and a huge muscular race (Hrothgar) as male only. As minor as it is, it is literally the same man (Yoshida) saying that he cannot do something, even though he was able to do it before, during a time before he had any clout at the company mind you. He is now regarded as one of the "most important people at Square Enix" so he could do it but didn't.

Personally - I don't think he cares about the lore but it seems like the team is likely just behind on deliverable and those models (Male Viera, Female Hrothgar) are what got cut from shipping with the new expansion. Another thing that is "telling" (and bad) is that the new races will not visibly be able to wear helmets which seems like a cut corner they didn't need to take. Honestly, with all the good will that FFXIV has been collecting over the years I think most people (if it's the case, mind you) would have preferred that Yoshida just came out and said "We were trying to do this and didn't have time, we'll likely revisit it at a later date" instead of just dropping it like this; although you can hardly blame him after the disaster that was WoW's "new races in BoFA" PR debacle.

People are also tentatively upset with some game design decisions (DNC being a Ranged DPS, elimination of TP as a resource, no new healer class) but it still remains to be seen how all of the combat changes shake out as they haven't talked much about it and there could be some real positives there.

The big issue with people being confused by the no male viera thing, or maybe just me, is that it seemed like Square was teasing this when they added an npc to the game who discussed there being male viera. They were just rare and never left the woods or something. This is a perfectly decent reason for why they wouldn't be playable, since if they're rare and suddenly every city gets flooded with bunny men that'd kind of ridiculous from a lore perspective, but since this is an mmo and they'd already announced viera as a playable race at that point it sort of set people up to think that they were introducing them for player use. Otherwise, why bother adding males into lore at all, since as far as I know there have never actually been male viera in any other Final Fantasy game.

Besides that, though, I think dancer would make a lot more sense as a melee class and not just, I don't know, striking poses while you chuck knives at people. You'd think dance moves that kick people or something would fit better, but with the balance as it is there aren't nearly as many ranged classes as there are melee. All together, this with the whole "we're going to an alternate dimension" thing seems like them chucking a whole bunch of shit into the pot at once instead of staggering shit to plan it out for future expansions. It's not like they've never released an expansion with only one playable race before. They've just spread themselves way too thin on this one, and the gender lock isn't really the biggest issue but it's definitely part of a whole scene that could have been better planned.

 

[Cait Sith]

Personally - I don't think he cares about the lore but it seems like the team is likely just behind on deliverable and those models (Male Viera, Female Hrothgar) are what got cut from shipping with the new expansion. Another thing that is "telling" (and bad) is that the new races will not visibly be able to wear helmets which seems like a cut corner they didn't need to take. Honestly, with all the good will that FFXIV has been collecting over the years I think most people (if it's the case, mind you) would have preferred that Yoshida just came out and said "We were trying to do this and didn't have time, we'll likely revisit it at a later date" instead of just dropping it like this; although you can hardly blame him after the disaster that was WoW's "new races in BoFA" PR debacle.

Definitely all of this. They had received a lot of requests for both Viera and a more "beast-like" race to be included by players over the years (for example, people responded well to the concept art for Viera from a few years ago, along with the original incarnation of Au Ra which were much more bestial than they are now). So they were trying to keep people happy by including both of them whilst still running on limited time and resources. From reading a few interviews conducted after the announcement, it sounds like they originally wanted to include Hrothgar only as a more unique option than the existing races, but considering Viera were so popular, they felt people would be upset if they didn't get Viera. So this was their solution when they didn't have time to make four sets of new character models.

Not really the smartest decision in retrospect, I think most people with a decent head on their shoulders would agree it'd be better to wait for something more complete with a wide variety of options rather than receive something rushed where you can't even wear a hat as one of the new races - but I can see why they ended up in this position, and they can't go back on it at this point, only pay attention to player feedback moving forward. This is something they've stated to be open to, so that's a good sign, even though it may take a while for them to rehaul their schedules enough to fit in development of more options.

 

[Tanner Glass]

Besides that, though, I think dancer would make a lot more sense as a melee class and not just, I don't know, striking poses while you chuck knives at people. You'd think dance moves that kick people or something would fit better, but with the balance as it is there aren't nearly as many ranged classes as there are melee. All together, this with the whole "we're going to an alternate dimension" thing seems like them chucking a whole bunch of shit into the pot at once instead of staggering shit to plan it out for future expansions. It's not like they've never released an expansion with only one playable race before. They've just spread themselves way too thin on this one, and the gender lock isn't really the biggest issue but it's definitely part of a whole scene that could have been better planned.

DNC being a Ranged Physical DPS makes sense from a game balance point of view, though.

Pre-shadowbringers
Melee DPS - 4
Ranged Physical DPS - 2
Ranged Magic DPS - 3
Tanks - 3
Healers - 3

Post Shadowbringers
Melee DPS - 4
Rangeld Physical DPS - 3
Ranged Magic DPS - 3
Tanks - 4
Healers - 3
(Also BLU, but it doesn't count).

It brings all roles to 3 classes and (hopefully) they're doing something clever with GUN to differentiate it from the other tanks to justify it being 4th on the list, but moving to 4 healers and leaving MCH/BRD alone would have been weird. Doubly so because it doesn't seem like there are any great ideas as to what a 4th healer should even do (and the 3rd healer is just a hybrid, basically).

People complain (perhaps rightly so) about the healers not being incredibly varied (WHM uses regens, SCH uses shields, AST uses both) but BRD and MCH are shockingly similar. It also likely is a way to try and open up the current DPS "meta" composition (DRG, NIN, MCH, BRD) by having a class that has access to all of the Ranged DPS raid buffs (and maybe new ones), without being forced to deal piercing damage - which means you are no longer "forced" to have a DRG and can instead look elsewhere (likely SMN or BLM, but maybe SAM in some comps).

 

[Miang]

I'm personally far saltier about Sightseeing Log Mage Blue Mage, the increasingly stale healer scene, and the frankly embarrassing main story questline in 4.5-4.56. Two major story patches, one new dungeon with no relevant enemies, cutscenes upon cutscenes upon cutscenes, and...I basically know exactly as much about the story as I did a year ago. Come on, that's just lazy.

I'm still looking forward to Shadowbringers, but I feel like they ran out of gas after Tsukuyomi and Omega, who were easily my favorite things about Stormblood.

 

[Yaito-Chan]

I lost all hope for this expansion when they announced that Nu Mou would be a beast race instead of a playable race.

 

[VIVIIXI]

Would be a hoot if this were a week long hard troll for April Fools day.

That said, when are devs going to learn that gender-locking classes/races in a fantasy/sci-fi mmo is a not-so-smart move that almost nobody is in favor of?

Contrary to urban legend, even hard rightys and man-o-sphere extremists don't seem to care if people have gender/sex options in fantasy MMOs from what I've seen. Historical settings are a different animal though. Lay your lurid gaze upon D-day with any form gender shenanigans at your own peril.

The best response they can expect for genderlocking, from anyone into fantasy games, is indifference. Meanwhile there are lots of people that are going to be annoyed at the very least and almost as many who will start speaking in tongues and spasming in public.
Gender warriors will get bent.
Egalitarians will get bent.
People who don't like playing their own sex will get bent.
People who don't like playing the opposite sex will get bent.
People who get shoved into taffy pullers will get bent.

There's really no plus side to balance out the backlash for doing it.

 

[Stab You in the Back]

This is a dumb question, but since a character can be multiple classes (or every class), why is there such a demand for alt races this late into the game's lifespan?

 

[BubbleButt]

"Male" Viera are just futas. Debate me.

 

[The Littlest Shitlord]

"Male" Viera are just futas. Debate me.

This was basically what large sections of the playerbase spontaneously decided for the catgirl race back in FFXI. So. Many. Futa. Catgirl. Doujins. Then years later, Square-Enix finally added a single male mithra, as an NPC, and there were tons of complaints.

I always wondered why in this age of microtransactions they didn't just decide to preserve the lore on races with imbalanced gender ratios by forcing people to fork out $100 or so to be able to make a male viera or female roegadyn. People who really, really want it will have it, the rare gender will stay rare, and the company makes a ton of money. What's the problem?

 

[BubbleButt]

So. Many. Futa. Catgirl. Doujins.

I remember that shit, felt underrepresented by the lack of giantess amazonian Elvaan women in doujin, though IIRC Jack-o-Lantern pulled some out of their ass. Somewhat related: FFXI would have been a lot more enjoyable had it been soloable, I get what they were going for since Final Fantasy was always party based, but waiting for Valkurm Dunes groups was such a fuckin' hassle.

 

[Dave.]

I swear to god there were so many layers to this controversy it goes miles deep. There were debates over the looks of the male viera (and it gets really creepy, a lot of them wanted them to look like kids), there were debates over whether or not they would be released at all, and there were debates over moral conundrums of releasing monogendered races. I feel like ground zero was r/ffxiv. Everyone was so smug and so up there own ass that male vieras would be a thing and the people who wanted them were unbearably insufferable (SJW rhetoric nuff said). Honestly, good riddance. That's my opinion. Fuck male vieras. I don't want them if this is the kind of shit I have to put up with. I already hate people who play miqo'tes and au ra because I'm sick of hearing non-stop UwU so cute <3 kittyface :3 XD everytime I put up with a shitty party member.

Spoiler: And btw

I'm not saying everyone who played miqo'tes or au ras or the people who wanted male vieras are ALL bad people, far from it. And by all means you can be disappointed if you wish. I'm not knocking you for that.

 

[The Littlest Shitlord]

I remember that shit, felt underrepresented by the lack of giantess amazonian Elvaan women in doujin, though IIRC Jack-o-Lantern pulled some out of their ass. Somewhat related: FFXI would have been a lot more enjoyable had it been soloable, I get what they were going for since Final Fantasy was always party based, but waiting for Valkurm Dunes groups was such a fuckin' hassle.

Underrepresented? Wait, you're a snooty French giraffe woman?

Anyway, they really should have at least set party size at 4 or 5 instead of 6. It could have been fixed without too much trouble if they'd done it early on, too, but Tanaka was always such a goddamn stubborn shithead about everything. Then when WoW came along and ate their fucking lunch and they lost a huge chunk of their playerbase overnight due to their own stubborn unresponsiveness they just kind of shit themselves and did nothing. Then when they started work on FFXIV, they gave control over to stubborn shit-himself-and-do-nothing and wondered why FFXIV 1.0 bombed and nearly caused the company to go under. Morons. But then Square has always been badly run.

Anyway, back on topic, I did some thinking about my idea and I think the reason that no one does it is because none of these MMO companies are lore-centric. It's an idea that would only occur to someone if they started with a world design rather than a business plan.

 

[Dante Alighieri]

People play this game? What are the numbers like and how do they compare to Guild Wars 2, EVE Online, and World of Warcraft?

 

[DragoonSierra]

Wheres my tiger tits you assholes!?

People play this game? What are the numbers like and how do they compare to Guild Wars 2, EVE Online, and World of Warcraft?

numbers are better than those from what i hear

 

[Near]

Should've deleted Balmung instead.

 

[Adolf Chrysler]

It’s sad to see western SJWs and LGBT people attach themselves to a game then bitch when Japan doesn’t get it. As someone who played FFXI for over a decade before FFXIV 2.0 the gender locked races never really made me double take.

 

[Dumbchan]

While I do agree that Hrothgar being a male-only race is bs if it's meant to be resemblance to Ronso, Viera were around from FF12 and always were a female race. Making a male counterpart shouldn't happen if they were only designed to be female. That's just my opinion.

Being I played FF12 and a huge fan of the race, I'd not be too thrilled if they made a male counterpart just to shut the fans up, but they could've done a better job with the Hrothgar race as that already raised problems. Though, I'd totally play a Viera if I played FF14 again, but I haven't picked that game up in a few years.

People always find something to complain about though. This game, in my opinion, is still way better than WoW.

 

[Tanner Glass]

This is a dumb question, but since a character can be multiple classes (or every class), why is there such a demand for alt races this late into the game's lifespan?

Not a dumb question - a character can be all classes but you can also "reroll" your character through a "Fantasia Potion" and change races/genders/whatever. It's entirely cosmetic but one of the major points FFXIV has over other games (in particular, WoW) is style so it's important to some people.

You get one free through the story but otherwise it's a cash shop item.

People play this game? What are the numbers like and how do they compare to Guild Wars 2, EVE Online, and World of Warcraft?

It's a hard question to answer because subscriber numbers are hidden away, but it's a common belief that FFXIV is near the size of WoW's subscriber base and growing (where as WoW's is shrinking) if they haven't passed it already.

Using 3rd party tools we can pull up the following data and make some abstractions.

FFXIV has 583,966 "active" characters who have at least 1 class at level 70 AND have done the story up until a certain point (4.2). This is from https://ffxivcensus.com/
WoW has 635,625 characters that are level 120 (Max level for current xpac) according to warcraftrealms.com

Guild Wars is a bit trickier as I couldn't find a clean census tool for it, but I've heard 1.5 million thrown around. It isn't a subscription-required game though so I imagine there's more drop in and drop out compared to WoW/XIV. EVE I honestly have no idea, but I would imagine it's a much different crowd than GW2/XIV/WoW

Comparing those two data points you have to take into account that WoW is a very alt-heavy game (you need an alt to play a different class, an alt has it's own raid lockouts, two extra tradeskills, etc) and a major selling point of Battle for Azeroth was "You can make new characters be these new race types and you get a reward for getting the alt to 120". FFXIV is not an alt-friendly game (some extremely crazy people still do it) but alting is not really a thing that is done in FFXIV. The only reason for Alts in FFXIV is for very high end raiders who want to raid in two groups (two sets of drops, two lockouts per week instead of one) but most people don't have that kind of time.

When I was heavy into WoW I had ~8 characters at max level, I've never had more than one in FFXIV.

Depending on the validity of the tools, it looks fairly close. It's also estimated that WoW is currently at 2 million subscribers and I don't think it's much of a stretch to think that FFXIV is close to that mark. The only way we'll know for certain is if a sales number gets put out there for the upcoming expansion "Shadowbringers" as that will closely reflect how many people are playing FFXIV at that time. Additionally, they are adding more servers and data centers as part of "Shadowbringers" so they must have the numbers to justify doing so.

TL;DR - A lot of people seem to be playing, they're adding more servers and it seems poised to overtake WoW if it hasn't already; but that's helped substantially by WoW's expansion being a horrible shit pile and Blizzard ruining all goodwill they've built for themselves as a company.

 

[Dolce & Gabbana]

What about the enbies