Flight from Paris bound for Cairo disappears - Sudden malfunction or sudden jihad syndrome?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ed-to-cairo-from-paris-disappears-from-radar/

An Egyptair flight bound for Cairo from Paris has disappeared from the radar, the airline announced late Wednesday.

Flight No. MS804 departed Paris at 11:09 p.m. Central European Summer Time. Egyptair said it would post updates as more information became available.

CNN quoted the airline saying that the plane was flying at 37,000 feet when it disappeared before entering Egyptian airspace. A total of 69 people were said to be on board — 59 passengers and 10 crew.

Hopefully they all come back alive, but I don't think I've ever read a story about a plane disappearing from the radar that didn't end in tragedy. And considering it's an EgyptAir flight between two Muslim countries, terrorism sounds like a real possibility

 

[Internet War Criminal]

This is why I'm still very hesitant on flying at all. If it's not a terrorist attack, it's that.

Except that plane travel is by far safer than car or train travel. So yeah stop being a pansy just down a xanax, drink six scotch and sexually harass stewardesses like the rest of us to cope with the stress of flying

Spoiler

don't need xanax, but I do drink and sexually harass the stewardesses.

purely for pleasure though

 

[Strelok]

More news as the FDRs are analyzed.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/middleeast/egyptair-cockpit-voice-recorder-fire/

According to the recovered FDR, it's sounding like a fire brought it down.

• There could have been smoke in a lavatory and in the plane's avionics, according to the flight data recorder.
• The wreckage from the plane's front section showed "signs of high temperature damage and soot," Egypt's civil aviation ministry said.
• There were smoke alerts near the plane's cockpit minutes before it crashed, according to the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, a data link for sending messages between planes and ground facilities.

This would lead to either terrorism or shoddy worksmanship on the airplane. The A320 however should be noted as one of the safest jets in the sky, but that's when properly maintained. And EgyptAir has a spotty record in that regard, including a cockpit fire back in 2011. They also have an equally spotting security record, including attempted hickjacks by a man wearing a fake bomb made of cellphones and another by a man with a jar of hair gel (I am not making that up). Part of the problem we will see in the future however, is EgyptAir is a state owned company, which may mean the western aviation authorities assisting may se interference if it sheds poor light on Egypt.

 

[AN/ALR56]

A fire in the avionics is almost nearly impossible to survive.
Swiss air's me 11 crash and the 747 south Africa airways disappearance prove that.
It's sad as fuck,im sure the pilots tried everything they could to try to get the plane and passengers to safety

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

If I should ever perish in a plane crash, all I ask for is that it's something so sudden that it knocks me out before I realize what's going on.

Let's see what other information they will find. After all, it's really weird that the plane crashed without a Mayday...

 

[Strelok]

If I should ever perish in a plane crash, all I ask for is that it's something so sudden that it knocks me out before I realize what's going on.

Let's see what other information they will find. After all, it's really weird that the plane crashed without a Mayday...

A fire in the avionics would completely disable any ability to send any sort of distress call. In addition, it's often common in catastrophic, sudden failures for no distress call to be made due to how rapidly events escalate.

 

[RomanesEuntDomus]

A fire in the avionics would completely disable any ability to send any sort of distress call.

Well, I could see something like that happening, but I somehow would guess there's at least 1 if not even 2 backups, making it somewhat unlikely that there's a total communication blackout. Unless, of course, the fire started right at the antenna/radio or some important juncture thereof.

I'm not an aviation engineer, obviously, but they do build planes with a lot of redundant and backup systems after all.

 

[Strelok]

Well, I could see something like that happening, but I somehow would guess there's at least 1 if not even 2 backups, making it somewhat unlikely that there's a total communication blackout. Unless, of course, the fire started right at the antenna/radio or some important juncture thereof.

I'm not an aviation engineer, obviously, but they do build planes with a lot of redundant and backup systems after all.

The avionics are the actual computerized controls of the craft itself located below the Flight Deck itself. If that is on fire, there is no backup, because you are already at one end of the Input/Output stream. There's nowhere TO backup.

Also to say no distress call came is misleading. There may have not been a actual Mayday or PanPan by the pilots, but the automated systems like the ACARS would have, and infact did, sent out automated reports of the faults throughout the aircraft as the situation deteriorated.

 

[AN/ALR56]

So i did some readings on avionics fire.
I learned some things:

1. There is no fire extinguisher there,best scenario is just to vent the smoke out of the compartment(and out of the plane) using its fans and exhausts, switch to emergency electrical mode and immediately Land or ditch the plane.http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/537715-avionics-bay-fire-suppression.html
2. The avionics bay can be accessed by from the cockpit.
   
3. It's unlikely to the pilots to fight the fire in such a small compartment:

Know what type of fire/smoke detection
system is available for the avionics compartment.
The avionics compartment is equipped with a smoke detector that senses particulates. Heat sensing is not available.



Know the indications for AVIONICS SMOKE.
The indications are:
-a single chime (SC)
-illuminated MAST CAUT lights (steady)
-an amber AVIONICS SMOKE message and
associated action steps appear on the E/WD
-the ELECtric page appears on the SD
-an amber SMOKE light illuminates within the
GEN 1 LINE pb on the overhead EMER ELEC
PWR panel
-amber FAULT lights illuminate within the
BLOWER and EXTRACT

Textbook procedure about electrical emergency configuration.

Pilots could detect an fire in the bathroom,however they would need a flight attendant to help determine which one.
Flight attendants are trained in basic firefighting.

Some documents you guy might wanna read
https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&...c297bZCbFX2B0Wplw&sig2=V8MTLJKgMpIA9FvUnQ9new
https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&...Ukfrg2rEtUAb5DdRg&sig2=sTIRJDezMCz3vLGH1YiFTQ
Those are Airbus procedures in PDF format.

 

[Strelok]

So i did some readings on avionics fire.
I learned some things:

1. There is no fire extinguisher there,best scenario is just to vent the smoke out of the compartment(and out of the plane) using its fans and exhausts, switch to emergency electrical mode and immediately Land or ditch the plane.http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/537715-avionics-bay-fire-suppression.html
2. The avionics bay can be accessed by from the cockpit.
   
3. It's unlikely to the pilots to fight the fire in such a small compartment:

Know what type of fire/smoke detection
system is available for the avionics compartment.
The avionics compartment is equipped with a smoke detector that senses particulates. Heat sensing is not available.



Know the indications for AVIONICS SMOKE.
The indications are:
-a single chime (SC)
-illuminated MAST CAUT lights (steady)
-an amber AVIONICS SMOKE message and
associated action steps appear on the E/WD
-the ELECtric page appears on the SD
-an amber SMOKE light illuminates within the
GEN 1 LINE pb on the overhead EMER ELEC
PWR panel
-amber FAULT lights illuminate within the
BLOWER and EXTRACT

Textbook procedure about electrical emergency configuration.

Pilots could detect an fire in the bathroom,however they would need a flight attendant to help determine which one.
Flight attendants are trained in basic firefighting.

Some documents you guy might wanna read
https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&...c297bZCbFX2B0Wplw&sig2=V8MTLJKgMpIA9FvUnQ9new
https://www.google.com.br/url?sa=t&...Ukfrg2rEtUAb5DdRg&sig2=sTIRJDezMCz3vLGH1YiFTQ
Those are Airbus procedures in PDF format.

To further clarify, the reason there is no extinguisher, is that the materials used to extinguish fires will instantly destroy electronics (either through short circuiting, or deep freezing), leaving the plane in much the exact same condition had the fire been allowed to proceede, only even faster.

Techncially halon won't damage electronics, but it's in dwindling supply, and there are a few other issues specific to aircraft with it IIRC.

 

[Strelok]

The CVR data has been analyzed, and the slow burn (Well, I mean it was very fast, but slow in that it wasn't a fuel fire) on an inflight fire is all but confirmed.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/egypt-says-fire-audible-on-egyptair-cockpit-voice-recording-1468695419

There also are reports of Egyptian investigators being extremely cagey with giveing information to their European counterparts, and has been making sure Airbus has played only a fringe role. Weather terrorism or a plane related fire caused this, I'm suspecting the truth is going to shed some extremely unflattering light on EgyptAir.

Personally I'm more interested in the FDR data though, those record for up to 25 hours, depending on whose regulations they are conforming too (That's the FAA number anyway), so any sort of issue may have started to show symptoms long before it propagated to a fire.

 

[Male Idiot]

To be honest, I think this may be due to bad maintenance.

Planes are extremely delicate equipment. Cutting corners can lead to extreme danger very fast, and even 1st world flight companies can cut corners.... so why are we survived 3rd world ones do?

Statistically planes may be the safest, but they also need the most exacting maintenance of all forms of travel beside space shuttles, and any accident is almost always lethal.

You can survive a car crash. In fact, you are more likely to surive than not. Plane crash? You are most likely killed instantly.
Also, with a car crash you at least have a chance to lessen the impact if you are skilled/lucky. With a plane crash you have zero control over your fate.

 

[Strelok]

To be honest, I think this may be due to bad maintenance.

Planes are extremely delicate equipment. Cutting corners can lead to extreme danger very fast, and even 1st world flight companies can cut corners.... so why are we survived 3rd world ones do?

Statistically planes may be the safest, but they also need the most exacting maintenance of all forms of travel beside space shuttles, and any accident is almost always lethal.

You can survive a car crash. In fact, you are more likely to surive than not. Plane crash? You are most likely killed instantly.
Also, with a car crash you at least have a chance to lessen the impact if you are skilled/lucky. With a plane crash you have zero control over your fate.

This isn't 100% relevant to this particular discussion, but I'll also point out that while airline travel is 6 times safer than driving by deaths per mile traveled, general aviation (Which is everything from your granpa renting a cessna, to private 20 seater buisness jets and more) is around 19 times (At least when using US auto crash and GA rates) more dangerous than driving by the same metric. This just goes to show the difference pilot professionalism and proper maintenance can make.

Also it means if your cousin who just got his pilots license and is telling you to come in in 172 with him and goes "ah it's safer than driving and you do that all the time" he's full of shit.

 

[Strelok]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/world/middleeast/egyptair-804-crash-fire.html

Latest update says the plane likely broke up in the air between the fire and impacting the ground. Investigators are drawing parralels now between this and TWA 800, which was a fuel detonation from electrical failures. They are citing the propigation of panic over a fire but not immediate loss of control to mean that the plane was either torn apart by the fire (presumably a fuel explosion), or that the descent itself tore the plane apart