Forced Intergration is as bad as Forced Segregation - Discuss...

Just Another Apocalypse said:
No, with respect that is a rather infantile way of seeing thing s. It's the what's the point of playing if I'm not guarantee d to win.

this isn't the point either, and I think this might be the problem. for a generation (at least) we've been sold a Marxist idea of socialist utopia where no one has to do anything hard, it'll all be playing games and no consequences sex (see fully automated luxury communism).

It's bullshit. the interesting thing is now we have the internet. In my youth shit happened and a handful of news outlets would tell you. And when they stopped telling you, you forgot.

now every person is their own production company WITH JUST A FUCKING PHONE! I remember video cameras were still the size of a brief case 25 year ago, if you want ed the cheap end svhs one (good enough quality for tv).

who knows what it'll be like in the future?
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I cannot understand you.
 
Schway said:
I cannot understand you.
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You mean you do not understand me.

I pointed out that as long as there are people, there will be conflict. You said that means people shouldn't bother then sorting out problems.

I then said that this is a rather childish way of seeing things. Nothing is guaranteed in life but death (and taxes and trouble if you like Marvin Gaye).

But the problem today is that people have an unrealistic expectation of life.

Utopia will never exist in the real world, it cannot. It is by its definition an imaginary state.

Then I said that within the last 3 decades, the power to collect and communicate information has changed massively. But it takes time to realise and understand these changes (if you are prepared to do the work).

Basically, if you want something, the only way to get it is to DO something about it, but there is still no guarantee of getting it. But not doing anything about it is definitely not going to get you something.

If you want to live in an integrated society it is your duty to play your part. Doesn't mean it will happen. Same if you want to live in a segregated society, you have to DO something about it.

Just sitting behind a keyboard bitching about everybody else not doing what you want them to do isn't going to achieve anything. Not saying this is what you want, or what I think you want.
 
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As a gay PoC, and therefore better than all of you white cis het rapists you can pay me money and listen to my theophanic wisdom.


...If you want to live in a country, fucking integrate. My grandparents fled Vietnam to enjoy the higher living standards of Europe and we didn't hide in a fucking take away shrieking about white privilege. We already spoke French, we gave our children french names, spoke French at home, practiced French national holidays alongside our own and made friends with ethnic french nationals.

If you think wherever the fuck you are from is better than where you now live, please do us all a favour and fuck off back there. There are a small number of things about European society I'm not keen on, but I accept them as part of living in a European society.

Ethnics who refuse to integrate piss me off more than most other political issues. My family came to Europe because it was better than where we came from, I don't want any colour of unevolved mud hut dweller to turn it back into where we came from.
 
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Dildo said:
As a gay PoC, and therefore better than all of you white cis het rapists you can pay me money and listen to my theophanic wisdom.


...If you want to live in a country, fucking integrate. My grandparents fled Vietnam to enjoy the higher living standards of Europe and we didn't hide in a fucking take away shrieking about white privilege. We already spoke French, we gave our children french names, spoke French at home, practiced French national holidays alongside our own and made friends with ethnic french nationals.

If you think wherever the fuck you are from is better than where you now live, please do us all a favour and fuck off back there. There are a small number of things about European society I'm not keen on, but I accept them as part of living in a European society.

Ethnics who refuse to integrate piss me off more than most other political issues. My family came to Europe because it was better than where we came from, I don't want any colour of unevolved mud hut dweller to turn it back into where we came from.
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See, the people escaping marxism get it.
 
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Dildo said:
As a gay PoC, and therefore better than all of you white cis het rapists you can pay me money and listen to my theophanic wisdom.


...If you want to live in a country, fucking integrate. My grandparents fled Vietnam to enjoy the higher living standards of Europe and we didn't hide in a fucking take away shrieking about white privilege. We already spoke French, we gave our children french names, spoke French at home, practiced French national holidays alongside our own and made friends with ethnic french nationals.

If you think wherever the fuck you are from is better than where you now live, please do us all a favour and fuck off back there. There are a small number of things about European society I'm not keen on, but I accept them as part of living in a European society.

Ethnics who refuse to integrate piss me off more than most other political issues. My family came to Europe because it was better than where we came from, I don't want any colour of unevolved mud hut dweller to turn it back into where we came from.
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This is why integration should be a societal rule upheld by social norms, not in any way a rule of law. You shouldn't be forced by law to integrate, but the people of a country you're immigrating to should definitely be allowed to, be privy to telling non-integrating immigrants to fuck off, refuse them service, and not make things easier for them by offering service in their preferred way. Ethnic and nationalist diasporas destroy communities. What better way to give up your country than to let others in, let them change the primary language, and let them change every aspect of life to remind them of home.

Laws that protect non-integrators are counter productive.
 
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Foreign people coming to America? They should have to integrate.
Muslims coming to Britain and forcing their culture upon the British? Brits shouldn't have to integrate.

So basically it depends on who's forcing the integration and why.
 
Just Another Apocalypse said:
I pointed out that as long as there are people, there will be conflict. You said that means people shouldn't bother then sorting out problems.
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There was a communication breakdown here. Look at what I said again:

Schway said:
I hear this truism so often, but what's the point of it? Yes, there will always be conflict so I suppose creating a situation where everyone is at conflict with everyone else over everything because they don't have something as basic as a common ethnic interest is just par for the course?

With this line of thinking you might as well throw away any guideline or restriction because virtually none of them are 100% effective.
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The point I was making was that even if minimizing diversity wouldn't stop all conflict it's still important to do because it would improve the situation.
 
America acting socially like the USSR acted economically is the problem, people who are told to do something which is unnatural to them are going to say no. What you do next is important, if you gulag them then you'll have a quiet dissent that will turn into a black market 'correcting' the issues for people. If you chastise people but let them vote and speak their opinion, then you'll get a yo-yo effect between contrasting political positions based on who pissed people off last losing seats to those who pandered to them. The result will inch toward the truth, whether it is a natural truth or a social truth itself becoming apparent to all. Ideally you would educate and attempt to convert, lastly changing the system to match the new consensus. However, that is slow and people want justice before they'll give you peace so that can't happen.

The answer is to ironically ignore the issue, allowing integration for those that want it, and racial ordering for those who believe it is the only true ordering of society. However if there are differences between the races, expect to get hammered with them and people to swing xenophobe in response. Which makes being a leader in 2021 not very desirable for those who are liberty minded and wise. Leaving the rest to run for office like clowns, misreading the situation and applying oversimplified solutions forcefully or sanctimoniously.
 
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I think the "melting pot" in America has led to a bland homogeneous lack of culture, full of endless racial tensions. The woke cult egging said tensions even further with identity politics doesn't help.

But yeah, forced segregation isn't a good idea either.
 
So they are just figuring this out now? If they had only asked me this in the late 80's I could have saved them the trouble, lol.
 
There can be no integration with a lot of modern black Americans. Their culture is a counterculture that pretty much runs completely against all the unspoken and spoken rules for any society even approximating a polite one, they're obsessed with criminality, perpetual victimhood and refusing to do whatever whitey is doing at this moment. They do not want to integrate, and they don't want you to integrate with them. They want to hurt you and hurt the society you live in, and they don't even care if this hurts them.
 
Why not view a modern society like living in an apartment complex. Let’s say I have many neighbours from a multitude of different backgrounds, one is Muslim one is Chinese another is black etc. I don’t have to get to know any of my neighbours or understand them provided we all live under the same roof and we all follow the building’s rules and codes and people aren’t bothering one another in their homes everything is fine. I think the pressure to understand everyone else’s culture is misguided. Coexistence doesn’t necessarily come through understanding but rather respecting boundaries and freedom to associate under a shared universal set of principles. Sometimes miracles happen and I become good friends with someone from a different culture but it shouldn’t be forced.

I get also that there is a point where it becomes more complicated than that and there is the prospect of feeling alienated in your own neighbourhood. A lot of people feel this when the neighbour hood they grew up in becomes an immigrant community for example and they feel the culture of their surroundings doesn’t reflect what they grew up with. If we are being real it’s not something that can be glossed over humans tend to like what they know and what they have grown comfortable with over time so that can breed alienation if they are no longer hearing their own language being spoken and your traditions and customs aren’t being regarded by those around you.

I like this scene from Gran Tarino, they kind of tease each other with racism in this movie but it’s how people build some connection through shared obscenity.

 
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