General GunTuber thread

[Fount of BadSpeak]

I'd get one in x39.

I'd rather get a quality AK if they're charging north of 2k like I have seen some people estimating. Hell, for that price, you could get an AK and a good 2000 rounds even with today's prices. No hate on people who want a historical reproduction, but those prices are stupid.

MAC and Copper Customs on suicide watch.

This price is retarded, but I want one so badly, and have since I was barely a teenager and saw Balalaika with that Dragonuv. Still don't know if I'd want it for that price, that's two Scars. A couple thousand more, I could get a .50 bmg. Honestly, at that insane price point, I'd rather just get the Zastava m91, even if it's just an upscaled AK just because it's half the price.

 

[White Devil]

It's not even a historical reproduction, they said they're changing shit. If I'm paying $2000 + for an StG44, I want a fucking StG44, not the PSA bubba fucked version of it.

 

[Badungus Kabungus]

Speaking of Dragunovs, look what the Chinese are selling in Leafland.

...yes, it's in 7.62x39mm. Sad.

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2022/10/17/potd-type-81-sr/

Edit: To keep this on topic, here's some no name leaf showing it off on youtube.

 

[ellroy]

Let's see, a round of Youtubers who get hand-picked review copies will give it glowing reviews, then people who get the normal guns but are still on the hype train will give it glowing reviews despite obvious problems, until the hype wears off and everyone quietly agrees they're built like crap. That sound right?

To be fair, the originals weren’t all that great to begin with due to German war economy running low on materials. At least it is a faithful reproduction in terms of quality which I’m sure will be a struggle for PSA to meet.

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

To be fair, the originals weren’t all that great to begin with due to German war economy running low on materials. At least it is a faithful reproduction in terms of quality which I’m sure will be a struggle for PSA to meet.

I wouldn't want an original for that reason. The headspacing method is suspect, the stampings are inconsistent quality, and the gun was more or less designed as disposable.

 

[ellroy]

I wouldn't want an original for that reason. The headspacing method is suspect, the stampings are inconsistent quality, and the gun was more or less designed as disposable.

Yeah there is a list of flaws it had, it had they couldn’t bother to correct but there was something I always thought was damning as an engineer.

I remember watching a Brownells video (I think) a couple years back with a different replica manufacturer that was aiming for the most authentic build yet. The lead said they had some original drawings of the StG but the drawings were lacking a crucial detail: tolerances. They had no idea at what tolerance a part had to be a part of the all up assembly of the rifle. That’s a statement of German engineering during WW2, make every part fit not matter what.

There is a reason these rifles got chopped down and used by the Rebel Alliance in The Empire Strikes Back.

 

[BONE_Buddy]

Yeah there is a list of flaws it had, it had they couldn’t bother to correct but there was something I always thought was damning as an engineer.

I remember watching a Brownells video (I think) a couple years back with a different replica manufacturer that was aiming for the most authentic build yet. The lead said they had some original drawings of the StG but the drawings were lacking a crucial detail: tolerances. They had no idea at what tolerance a part had to be a part of the all up assembly of the rifle. That’s a statement of German engineering during WW2, make every part fit not matter what.

There is a reason these rifles got chopped down and used by the Rebel Alliance in The Empire Strikes Back.

Yeah, late war German hand-fit engineering and manufacturing was a hell of a thing. Towards the end, seemingly most of their vehicles were more or less artisanally manufactured and interchangeable parts were a half dead concept. I hate to think of what their munitions lines looked like.

 

[make_it_so]

Per RobSki at AK Operators Union, YouTube is getting fucking retarded with gun content again.

 

[HumptiDouji]

I wouldn't want an original for that reason. The headspacing method is suspect, the stampings are inconsistent quality, and the gun was more or less designed as disposable.

I'd want one if I got it for free and no NFA bullshit, it'd be a damn cool wallhanger, but it's not a shooter, and I don't want to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a potmetal desperation gun built quick and cheap with a very finite lifespan in mind, especially with ammunition and magazines not being widely available.

If I got to win that PSA Sturmgewehr in a raffle or something, I wouldn't mind it as a novelty, I could put up with small flaws which no doubt are insignificant next to the original's. The grade of metal can't be anywhere near as bad, so with enough gunsmithing anything is fixable. .300BLK would give me very similar ballistics to 7.92mm Kurz without having to scrape by for small productions of Prvi Partizan ammo or a magazine which isn't yet totally worn out.

Yeah there is a list of flaws it had, it had they couldn’t bother to correct but there was something I always thought was damning as an engineer.

Procurement was fairly dysfunctional in Nazi Germany, it's unsurprising that something wasn't done like it should even in the face of worsening odds. As the war goes, the noose slowly tightens and the window for addressing those kinds of things closes, and the potmetal part becomes a virtue because it's a usable gun that doesn't ask for much of the increasingly less available good steel.
I can only assume that the decision to pursue the Stg-45 was out of bureaucratic inertia or people unable to cope with how fucked everything was, there were some people who just didn't want to come to terms with how badly things were going and acted like all kinds of things were still within their means or a viable idea to pursue.

I remember watching a Brownells video (I think) a couple years back with a different replica manufacturer that was aiming for the most authentic build yet. The lead said they had some original drawings of the StG but the drawings were lacking a crucial detail: tolerances. They had no idea at what tolerance a part had to be a part of the all up assembly of the rifle. That’s a statement of German engineering during WW2, make every part fit not matter what.

The way I recall the interview with HMG is that they claimed that original technical drawings for the Sturmgewehr existed and had defined dimensions and what not, but that they were lost or destroyed in the war, and that supposedly there might have been aspects left out which were filled in by 'tribal knowledge' from people involved in their manufacture, people who moved on and themselves lost to time at varying points.

That's HMG's claim, but it sounds plausible to me. Do you recall the video you saw, or at least who the other guys were?

There is a reason these rifles got chopped down and used by the Rebel Alliance in The Empire Strikes Back.

They chopped down all kinds of stuff though, WW2 surplus was cheap across the board at the time.

 

[WelperHelper99]

Smith and Wesson is coming out with a 5.7 for $699. 22+1 capacity, uses a gas system with rotating barrel

 

[JJLiautaud]

Smith and Wesson is coming out with a 5.7 for $699. 22+1 capacity, uses a gas system with rotating barrel

Sweet a gun that you only need to put 30 and a bit mags of ammo through it before you spent more on the ammo than the gun, is that some sort of record?

 

[WelperHelper99]

Sweet a gun that you only need to put 30 and a bit mags of ammo through it before you spent omore on the ammo than the gun, is that some sort of record?

At least it's a cheaper point of entry than most of the other 5.7 offerings. That and it's a Smith. I'm intrigued by that rotating barrel, kinda want it.

 

[JJLiautaud]

At least it's a cheaper point of entry than most of the other 5.7 offerings. That and it's a Smith. I'm intrigued by that rotating barrel, kinda want it.

Yeah i love 57 it would be a great plinking round if it wasnt a buck a round

 

[prolapsed_cranium]

MAC and Copper Customs on suicide watch.

At least these ones won't be rebadged Tigrs.

The way I recall the interview with HMG is that they claimed that original technical drawings for the Sturmgewehr existed and had defined dimensions and what not, but that they were lost or destroyed in the war, and that supposedly there might have been aspects left out which were filled in by 'tribal knowledge' from people involved in their manufacture, people who moved on and themselves lost to time at varying points.

That's a common thing.

For example I can give you the blueprints for an F-22 and all the fixtures, tooling, and jigs.

You won't have how the guys on the line actually had to do things or how there might be a slight modification on the assembly room floor.

I get it that this would be less likely on a 5th Gen fighter, but this stuff happens.....especially at the Haenel plant.....in 1945

 

[ellroy]

I'd want one if I got it for free and no NFA bullshit, it'd be a damn cool wallhanger, but it's not a shooter, and I don't want to pay tens of thousands of dollars for a potmetal desperation gun built quick and cheap with a very finite lifespan in mind, especially with ammunition and magazines not being widely available.

If I got to win that PSA Sturmgewehr in a raffle or something, I wouldn't mind it as a novelty, I could put up with small flaws which no doubt are insignificant next to the original's. The grade of metal can't be anywhere near as bad, so with enough gunsmithing anything is fixable. .300BLK would give me very similar ballistics to 7.92mm Kurz without having to scrape by for small productions of Prvi Partizan ammo or a magazine which isn't yet totally worn out.


Procurement was fairly dysfunctional in Nazi Germany, it's unsurprising that something wasn't done like it should even in the face of worsening odds. As the war goes, the noose slowly tightens and the window for addressing those kinds of things closes, and the potmetal part becomes a virtue because it's a usable gun that doesn't ask for much of the increasingly less available good steel.
I can only assume that the decision to pursue the Stg-45 was out of bureaucratic inertia or people unable to cope with how fucked everything was, there were some people who just didn't want to come to terms with how badly things were going and acted like all kinds of things were still within their means or a viable idea to pursue.


The way I recall the interview with HMG is that they claimed that original technical drawings for the Sturmgewehr existed and had defined dimensions and what not, but that they were lost or destroyed in the war, and that supposedly there might have been aspects left out which were filled in by 'tribal knowledge' from people involved in their manufacture, people who moved on and themselves lost to time at varying points.

That's HMG's claim, but it sounds plausible to me. Do you recall the video you saw, or at least who the other guys were?


They chopped down all kinds of stuff though, WW2 surplus was cheap across the board at the time.

That’s ringing a bell, I’m trying to piece together what exactly was said in the video. I don’t have the time to look it up but it was HMG. I think he mentioned that had some sort of drawing but they didn’t have the drawings and the handbooks that a manufacturer would have to specify how they do things at the shop which presumably would have things like tolerances. I have seen mechanical drawings for RF device housing and the tolerance are always listed on the drawing and if a special part of the drawing needs a different tolerance it would be listed at the parts dimension. What they had must of been a very crude drawing like something you submit to the patent office.

I disagree about the rifle’s use. It came out because the issue of urban combat on the Eastern Front. Wehrmacht soldiers would encounter whole platoons of sub machine gun wielding soviet soldiers and there was a lack of MP-38/40s due to the organization of their infantry sections. The flaw was introducing a new weapon and caliber late war. Just too little, too late. If Germany had better production pursuing the StG would of been a great idea. But enough arm chair general-ing.

Concerning HMG I think their only option was to acquire several StG’s and perform some sort of first article inspection on them to make a complete drawing. I doubt they had the resources to do it.

At least these ones won't be rebadged Tigrs.

That's a common thing.

For example I can give you the blueprints for an F-22 and all the fixtures, tooling, and jigs.

You won't have how the guys on the line actually had to do things or how there might be a slight modification on the assembly room floor.

I get it that this would be less likely on a 5th Gen fighter, but this stuff happens.....especially at the Haenel plant.....in 1945

This whole thing about technicians having some sort tribal knowledge that makes things work and gets a product to the finish line is the stuff system engineers find cringy. If you have that going on a modern production line than you aren’t modern and have a lot of problems. Even in WW2, the Americans had the right idea and never needed to depend on that sort of thing. For example, the Sherman tank production lines never had a certain device that many machine shops had, a vice. All parts on the assembly fitted without any need to alter them to a technician’s specification.

For something like the F-22 you wouldn’t have some technicans make modifications off drawing or the acquisition office for the Air Force would be furious at Lockheed Martin for not following the drawings or having to fill in the gaps. Any modern manufacture avoids that, and the sign of a sloppy manufacturer is technicians are the ones making the production line run with knowledge not captured on paper that has gone through an engineering review board.

 

[HumptiDouji]

Site won't let me quote for some reason, but I didn't say the Stg-44 was a terrible idea, I said the Stg-45 was, which was the effort to try to replace the Stg-44 right at the very end of the war, as if everything wasn't already lost, as if saving some theoretical money on a theoretically cheaper design was relevant or achievable for Germany by 1945.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

I know it's probably late, but there are guntuber tickleheads now:

 

[Sleazy Car Salesman]

Smith and Wesson is coming out with a 5.7 for $699. 22+1 capacity, uses a gas system with rotating barrel

Sounds like a nightmare. Plus it's a Smith semi so it's probably going to feel like garbage in the hand and have a terrible trigger.

At least it's a cheaper point of entry than most of the other 5.7 offerings. That and it's a Smith. I'm intrigued by that rotating barrel, kinda want it.

If you're poor you shouldn't own a 5.7, it's that simple.

Yeah i love 57 it would be a great plinking round if it wasnt a buck a round

For plinking I struggle to think of much anything it does better than 22mag, and 22mag also makes a great yote round when you aren't plinking.

 

[BONE_Buddy]

The real problem with 5.7 is that it really doesn't do anything special in a handgun. 9mm works well enough for most all of the 5.7 handgun duties. 10mm covers the "9mm but more" role for half the cost. The 5.7 makes some sense in a submachine-gun/PDW role, but there are very few people for whom that is applicable.

 

[Pocket Dragoon]

The real problem with 5.7 is that it really doesn't do anything special in a handgun. 9mm works well enough for most all of the 5.7 handgun duties. 10mm covers the "9mm but more" role for half the cost. The 5.7 makes some sense in a submachine-gun/PDW role, but there are very few people for whom that is applicable.

It was kinda special when the FN 5.7 was new, but even back then nobody was really hyping about the round itself (except for the forbidden AP flavor); most of the interest seemed to be about that particular pistol's capacity, especially after Ft. Hood.

At least I don't recall many videos from guys with those 16" barrel PS-90s who delved much into the rounds performance from longer barrels; instead they just hosed targets & waxed poetic about the magazine & the capabilities of real P-90s.

But I've always been interested in what something like an M1 carbine could do with the 5.7, mostly because PS-90s are gay.