General GunTuber thread

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It is with a heavy heart that I come bearing news from the front, Flandre was now formally trooned out.
The memes were not in fact just memes.
PS: He's got kids for fuck sake.
The choice of using larping russian footage with that tranny voice is somewhat funny, but the news is saddening. I remember watching his MG42 build video in 2016 i want to say when I bought my first parts kit.
 
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It seems Paul is planning to have a few final IRL classes next month. It's a shame he doesn't want it recorded so his autistic anecdotes will be lost to time.
based on the last photo, I can imagine why he doesn't want it recorded- even audio. He may want the last 'public' exposure to be one in which he was stronger than he will be (he still looked pretty good in the last video he was in, all things considered)

I also note that they are not taking deposits and are just accepting money at the door. They say it's because they have no way to take credit cards and that might be true but it also makes it a lot easier if the events have to be canceled.
 
Admin Results is starting his own podcast/interview feature on his second channel called ARMO, with the Kyle Rittenhouse and Garand Thumb interviews retroactively labeled Episodes 1 and .05 respectively.

Episode #2 has Mike from Tactical Considerations as the guest and it reminds me again, how miffed I am we never got a second Trotsky video featuring the two before Admin unmasked.

Also, again asking whatever happened to Lou Sassle? His last appearance was in the behind the scenes/Admin parodying other guntubers video and at this point, I'd settle for Admin just openly state that he's no longer working with him since deciding to unmask.
 
For being one of the principal military powers of the first half of the 20th century, the British were really retarded.
Wait til you hear how Comrade Stalin secured the powerplant of the MiG-15!

Admin Results is starting his own podcast/interview feature on his second channel called ARMO, with the Kyle Rittenhouse and Garand Thumb interviews retroactively labeled Episodes 1 and .05 respectively.
Just what the Right needs, more podcasts!
 
Germans did have SMGs, but they were more of a specialty weapon, at least before Barbarossa. SLs and or Sergeants in a platoon might be issued one, but they also might be issued just a Kar 98k. Panzergrenadiers, Pioneers and other more elite units might have more. Pioneers would be give more especially as it was lighter and handier than a rifle. But after Barbarossa there was increased demand for SMGs. Which was met in part with captured weapons, be they field captured PPshs or stuff like Danish MP-35/Is being moved to the front. As well as the production of MP-41s(which initially were mostly sold to Romania) as well as Sten(germans made their own Sten) and the MP-3008 copy of the Sten. But in 1942 when the Mkb 42(the prototypes for the StG) was trialed demand instead switched to those(there is a whole hub ub with Hitler hating the StG). Basically the Germans wanted more individual fire power to match what the Soviets could put out as opposed to platoon fire power which they had with their superior MGs. As for Volksturm, they did have weapons meant mostly for them, like the Volksturm Gewehr series of rifles, but towards the end of the war a lot of simplifications or substitutions of weapons were being made. You had things like bottom of the barrel Kar 98ks with rough cut wood and no ladder sight, the MG45 a simplified MG42, the above mentioned MP3008. As well as cottage production meant to be supplied by a a single town, city. Like the Stens mentioned above were made in one town do to having the machines and raw materials to make them or the StG-45(M) which again was a substitute for the StG-44 that could be made in one locality instead of nothing.
The Germans were always so erratic about how they managed captured weapons. For example they captured a handful of British 3.7 Inch AA Guns which the Luftwaffe loved, and they set up a production line to manufacture Ammunition for less than 40 guns.

They captured thousands of French 75's yet started fucking around trying to change caliber and turn them into AT guns which involved completely rebuilding them, as well as converting guns that could be used for indirect fire to direct fire, which was just fucking dumb. Likewise all the captured Russian 76 and 88mm guns that they converted. While the Finns were using the same Ammunition as standard. The Finns send a load of 75's to Germany to be converted and they thought the whole idea was retarded (which is why they started carefully buying Artillery from Sweden)

They essentially threw away the millions of captured Russian small Arms by issuing them to unreliable 'Allies' whom they also treated like shit. The same weapons often ended up back in Soviet hands. They never produced Russian small Arms ammunition in quantity. They rebarrelled captured SMG's to take 9x19mm. For an military that was notoriously shit at logistics I don't think it simplified much, compared to just manufacturing 7.62 Tokarev, and mass issuing them to specific formations.

FFS they had the production line for the MAS 40 in their hands in 1943, and could have had it sooner if the guys inspecting the factory in Vichy France in 1940 knew what they were looking at. Instead they used the same fucking factory to produce components for the Gewehr 43, and I'm sure the French were really concerned about QC.

InRange did a video on the Gewehr 43, piece of junk that it was. Remember when that was being designed that the Germans had captured working examples of Czech and Polish Semi Autos and the tooling to manufacture them, and they never did anything with them.
 
They never produced Russian small Arms ammunition in quantity. They rebarrelled captured SMG's to take 9x19mm. For an military that was notoriously shit at logistics I don't think it simplified much, compared to just manufacturing 7.62 Tokarev, and mass issuing them to specific formations.

If the German were shit at logistics I wonder what's your opinion on essentially everyone else. Again, the Americans worked with an entire continent and a population that wasn't being bombed daily. Comparing them to anyone else is a fool's errand. And the Americans too refused to move from the frankly unappealing 30-06 because starting up mass production of ammunition is hard.

The pipe dream of simply copying the PPSh (the SS even tried to set up a drum SMG in Czechia before someone started screaming that it was foolish) was just the usual "theirs is better" mantra. In the great scheme of things even the attempted adoption of the STG and the 8mm kurz was an incredibly risky bet during wartime, and it was a revolutionary design.

If you want to see what happens when the Germans start breaking down and everyone starts "developing new guns " and "smartly re-using captured stocks" there's the charming story of Volksturm procurement. One can't deny that German small arms development and adoption was quite schizo at times, but again, if compared to the other Axis nations...
 
The Germans were always so erratic about how they managed captured weapons. For example they captured a handful of British 3.7 Inch AA Guns which the Luftwaffe loved, and they set up a production line to manufacture Ammunition for less than 40 guns.
Luftwaffe was just rife with corruption. For the longest time I have held the belief that the Luftwaffe Drillings meant for crew survival were actually gifts from Goering to the crew once the wars was over.
They captured thousands of French 75's yet started fucking around trying to change caliber and turn them into AT guns which involved completely rebuilding them, as well as converting guns that could be used for indirect fire to direct fire, which was just fucking dumb. Likewise all the captured Russian 76 and 88mm guns that they converted.
Germany has a higher need for AT guns than low level artillery. And the French 75 by that point was 40 years old and larger and heavier than the German 75mm gun.
They essentially threw away the millions of captured Russian small Arms by issuing them to unreliable 'Allies' whom they also treated like shit.
They didn't threw them away many of those guns were pressed into service. And also a lot of those guns were Mosins which only the Fins could make ammo for and nobody was rechambering them.
For an military that was notoriously shit at logistics I don't think it simplified much, compared to just manufacturing 7.62 Tokarev, and mass issuing them to specific formations.
7.62 Tokarev is one way interchangeable with 7.62 Mauser, a somewhat common civilian handgun round that was also used by some European militaries and as long as there was supply of it the Wehrmacht did issue it for captured 7.62 Tok weapons. And I want you to ask what is more efficient. Making 3 calibers, 7.92, 7.92 kurtz, 9mm or 4 Calibers for guns you do not manufacture as such have a finite supply.
FFS they had the production line for the MAS 40 in their hands in 1943, and could have had it sooner if the guys inspecting the factory in Vichy France in 1940 knew what they were looking at.
If the Germans could cajole the French to make things against their will they would have put them to make Tanks or Aircraft engines or other strategically significant equipment. It was so hard to make the French work using their own factories that it was easier to ship them to Germany.
InRange did a video on the Gewehr 43, piece of junk that it was. Remember when that was being designed that the Germans had captured working examples of Czech and Polish Semi Autos and the tooling to manufacture them, and they never did anything with them.
Those factories didn't stand still. They just made German guns. And it's one thing to say make a self loader, it's another to actually do it. The Japanese spent the better part of a decade trying to make a semi auto in the inter war period, again cloning Zh-29s, Pedersen Rifle and a home grown gun. None of the guns were deemed fit for adoption and the program was dropped as it was not worth the money. All self loader programs, even the successful ones took years. And to be fair the Germans started their program in 1940, by 1941 they had a dogshit gun and by 1943 they had a functional gun. And honestly even if every Wermacht solider in 1941 had a self loading rifle instead of a bolt action rifle that wouldn't have won them the war.
 
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If the German were shit at logistics I wonder what's your opinion on essentially everyone else. Again, the Americans worked with an entire continent and a population that wasn't being bombed daily. Comparing them to anyone else is a fool's errand. And the Americans too refused to move from the frankly unappealing 30-06 because starting up mass production of ammunition is hard.
The backbone of the German logistics system was the railroads, and they made a mess of them. Below is a video from a Military historian that specializes in logistics, and he just goes into detail about one fuck up after another. Key points being that changing the track gauge on Soviet railways wouldn't have been a major task for any sort of competent rail organization civil or military. It's fascinating and it gives an insight into the wider Wehrmacht.


Those factories didn't stand still. They just made German guns. And it's one thing to say make a self loader, it's another to actually do it. The Japanese spent the better part of a decade trying to make a semi auto in the inter war period, again cloning Zh-29s, Pedersen Rifle and a home grown gun. None of the guns were deemed fit for adoption and the program was dropped as it was not worth the money. All self loader programs, even the successful ones took years. And to be fair the Germans started their program in 1940, by 1941 they had a dogshit gun and by 1943 they had a functional gun. And honestly even if every Wermacht solider in 1941 had a self loading rifle instead of a bot action rifle that wouldn't have won them the war.
They wouldn't have had to clone the ZH-29 they actually had not only the full set of drawing but the machine tooling, likewise for the MAS40. It's just in both cases they didn't seem to realise it.

Germany has a higher need for AT guns than low level artillery. And the French 75 by that point was 40 years old and larger and heavier than the German 75mm gun.
They captured nearly a thousand 47mm Belgian AT guns, which had significant better penetration than the PAK 36, however nobody is certain what happened to them, apart from being put into coastal fortifications. They used Czech 47mm on A panzerjaeger but not many.

This is a really great Finnish site describing the rebuilt guns 75 PstK/97-38 the carriage, recoil system, barrel, laying system all had to be rebuilt, I'd love to know how much it cost and how it compared to a new built PAK 38.

They didn't threw them away many of those guns were pressed into service. And also a lot of those guns were Mosins which only the Fins could make ammo for and nobody was rechambering them.
By throwing away, I mean they didn't make the best use out of them.
 
They wouldn't have had to clone the ZH-29 they actually had not only the full set of drawing but the machine tooling, likewise for the MAS40. It's just in both cases they didn't seem to realise it.
The ZH-29 also used Aluminum components. And in 1938 the Germans still didn't want Semi Auto rifles.
They captured nearly a thousand 47mm Belgian AT guns, which had significant better penetration than the PAK 36, however nobody is certain what happened to them, apart from being put into coastal fortifications. They used Czech 47mm on A panzerjaeger but not many.
Considering the Dieppe raid and the German interpretation of it maybe they taught they were better served there. They also sent some Char B1s there as well. Also the Germans under estimated their need of AT until after Barbarossa began.
This is a really great Finnish site describing the rebuilt guns 75 PstK/97-38 the carriage, recoil system, barrel, laying system all had to be rebuilt, I'd love to know how much it cost and how it compared to a new built PAK 38.
The French modified guns were 30% cheaper than a PAK 40.
By throwing away, I mean they didn't make the best use out of them.
What's the best use of a few million Mosins?
 
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Considering the Dieppe raid and the German interpretation of it maybe they taught they were better served there. They also sent some Char B1s there as well. Also the Germans under estimated their need of AT until after Barbarossa began.
In 1942 the Germans were only really fortifying Ports and towns along the coast, most of the coast was lightly defended. Despite what the British claimed after Dieppe wasn't even particularly well defended it was just a large port in an obvious location to be attacked.

This is a great video about what the Germans thought about the Churchill tank used at Dieppe.


What's the best use of a few million Mosins?
You take a secondary theater (or potential theater) say Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece etc, and equip all the forces stationed there with Russian caliber small Arms. Russian Maxims would actually be perfect in the coastal defence role, no need to swap out barrels. Set up a production line for Ammunition. It also prevents the weapons from being recaptured by the Soviets.

The French modified guns were 30% cheaper than a PAK 40.
Even modified the muzzle velocity was still too low for a decent AT gun, and it would tear itself apart after constant use becuase the guns recoil system wasn't intended to be used at low elevations. (interesting side note the recoil system was also one of the reasons the British 3.7inch AA gun wasn't used in the AT role)
 
You take a secondary theater (or potential theater) say Norway, Yugoslavia, Greece etc, and equip all the forces stationed there with Russian caliber small Arms. Russian Maxims would actually be perfect in the coastal defence role, no need to swap out barrels. Set up a production line for Ammunition. It also prevents the weapons from being recaptured by the Soviets.
So you waste limited rail capability to gather up all the Mosins. Then send them over to places that already make use heavily of local guns and take those local guns and send them somewhere else. You also waste limited industrial tooling to make ammo for a gun that is most likely to not be fired in anger. And the only benefit is that the Soviets don't get to use a gun they already make millions of. This is at best rearranging chairs on the titanic at worst it's setting fire to the ship to keep warm.
Even modified the muzzle velocity was still too low for a decent AT gun, and it would tear itself apart after constant use becuase the guns recoil system wasn't intended to be used at low elevations. (interesting side note the recoil system was also one of the reasons the British 3.7inch AA gun wasn't used in the AT role)
It can kill a T-34 from the front. That's better than most German AT prior to 1943. And considering in 1941 the Panzerjagers were so desperate they experimented with bouncing shots of the ground into the floor plates of the tank I think they didn't care about the low life span of the gun if it meant higher life span for the user.
 
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So you waste limited rail capability to gather up all the Mosins. Then send them over to places that already make use heavily of local guns and take those local guns and send them somewhere else. You also waste limited industrial tooling to make ammo for a gun that is most likely to not be fired in anger. And the only benefit is that the Soviets don't get to use a gun they already make millions of. This is at best rearranging chairs on the titanic at worst it's setting fire to the ship to keep warm.

It can kill a T-34 from the front. That's better than most German AT prior to 1943. And considering in 1941 the Panzerjagers were so desperate they experimented with bouncing shots of the ground into the floor plates of the tank I think they didn't care about the low life span of the gun if it meant higher life span for the user.
What I'm suggesting is that the Mosins should have been treated as a weapon system, and the training, logistics and support processes put in place to get the most out of them. They should have been issued en masse to large scale formations, instead of just being doled out to rear echelon units together with whatever ammunition was to hand. They also shouldn't have been used on the Eastern front where they could have been recaptured (which I have a suspicion a lot were) but in a secondary theatre on the western front. There was a huge amount of German equipment in Norway (which kept the Norwegian Army supplied for decades after the war) that could have been better used on the Eastern front. Also have a watch of the video on German Railways during WWII, using retuning suppy trains to bring equipment back for maintenance was what they were supposed to do. Wehrmact doctrine was as much as possible to get equipment repaired back in the factory. Which is what a lot of modern militaries call "1st line to 4th line"

Also just to go a bit more about the PAK97/38. It used a PAK 38 carriage, which is one less PAK 38, it fired HEAT and that was 1940's era HEAT which was no where near as effective as a similar size round today would be. Accuracy was shit, and max effective range was 500 meters. Also the gun would eventually tear itselt apart, and spares were rarely available.

In 1943 the British Artillery (which along with the Engineers was one of the few parts of the Brtish Army that weren't officered by retards) decided to take the BL 4.5inch Gun out of service even though the design was less than 5 years old. The reason they did, was that they worked out it wasn't worth the shell it fired, or the crew, or the prime mover. The British Army needed Artillery, it just worked out that that piece of Artillery wasn't worth it. I think if someone that wasn't unhinged sat down and did the same calculation with the PAK97/38 they'd come up with the same answer. The Finns only took it because the Germans wouldn't sell them PAK40's
 
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What I'm suggesting is that the Mosins should have been treated as a weapon system, and the training, logistics and support processes put in place to get the most out of them. They should have been issued en masse to large scale formations, instead of just being doled out to rear echelon units together with whatever ammunition was to hand. They also shouldn't have been used on the Eastern front where they could have been recaptured (which I have a suspicion a lot were) but in a secondary theatre on the western front. There was a huge amount of German equipment in Norway (which kept the Norwegian Army supplied for decades after the war) that could have been better used on the Eastern front. Also have a watch of the video on German Railways during WWII, using retuning suppy trains to bring equipment back for maintenance was what they were supposed to do. Wehrmact doctrine was as much as possible to get equipment repaired back in the factory. Which is what a lot of modern militaries call "1st line to 4th line"
And again what benefit you get from all this effort?
The Germans didn't start struggling with small arms, especially bolt actions until 1945, by which point they long lost the war. In the grand scheme of things this is beyond pointless. I need to remind people that until 1945 Germany was producing enough tanks, planes, artillery, small arms and so on to meet demand, the problem was getting it to the front and also keeping it going as they ran out of fuel and other perishables like rubber, they were running out of able bodied men quicker than they were running out of guns to give them. A few million Mosins being effectively used is not doing anyone any favors.
Also just to go a bit more about the PAK97/38. It used a PAK 38 carriage, which is one less PAK 38, it fired HEAT and that was 1940's era HEAT which was no where near as effective as a similar size round today would be. Accuracy was shit, and max effective range was 500 meters. Also the gun would eventually tear itselt apart, and spares were rarely available.
PAK 38 could only reliably pen T-34s and KV1s using the very expensive Panzegrenate 40 APCR round, by comparison HEAT is cheap. And 500 meters is not bad for an AT gun that can be camouflaged and is facing soviet tanks with terrible vision.
 
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What I'm suggesting is that the Mosins should have been treated as a weapon system, and the training, logistics and support processes put in place to get the most out of them. They should have been issued en masse to large scale formations, instead of just being doled out to rear echelon units together with whatever ammunition was to hand.

I'm not going to waste time on droning Youtube videos, but the point stands: if the Germans were fuck-ups, who did better? The Italians, that managed so well their logistics that their entire North African campaign ran on fumes, failed to get people in Albania of all places and wasted years of vehicle production in the Spanish Civil War? The Japanese? "Durr anyone would have managed to change railway tracks" sure, maybe the Americans that had endless resources in any field and could supply the entirety of three (and more) Allied nations without a problem. Let's not even consider Axis minors.

Logistics is hard and the German industry had massive problems, but let's not reduce everything to memetic simplification.

Also, again, they did try to consider a foreign gun as a "weapon system" and put "training, logistic and support" behind it, with the Italian Carcano that they captured after 43 (I'm not going deep into the Mosin issued to Hiwis or the like). Guess what, the Italian guns that shared a common caliber (the MAB) had no problems in being integrated into the overall structure, even theoretically replacing the MP40 in production for the SMG role, while the 6,5 Carcano was nothing but an endless cause of problems, desperate plans for 8mm conversions that didn't go anywhere because the converted rifle had accuracy issues and when it was issued ammunition simply wasn't there, making training and any kind of extended combat impossible.

Using Soviet captured equipment on the Eastern Front where (hopefully) you could capture more ammunition at least made a bit of sense.
 
And the Americans too refused to move from the frankly unappealing 30-06 because starting up mass production of ammunition is hard.
The .30-06 Garand was already chosen the winner a month prior to MacArthur making it a formality. The logistical concerns extended beyond just ammunition as everything had to be retool or rebuilt to manufacture everything. To the guns themselves, magazines, enbloc clips and all of the other assorted stuff.
From Firearms Blog Link Archive link
It wasn’t to be, however. Pedersen, too sure of his ability to out-design his competition, would neglect his rifle during its most critical time at the very end of 1929. That year, during one of the last trials of his rifle, he left the United States and the trials behind, and traveled to the United Kingdon to sell his design to the British (who, even so early as the late 1920s, fervently wished not only for a replacement for their aging Lee-Enfield rifles, but also to adopt a common weapon with the United States). As a result, a competing design by one John Cantius Garand won the favor of the US Ordnance Department. Pedersen’s hubris was twofold: He had not only neglected to be present during this trial, which chafed the egos of Army personnel, but by his demand the contract with the Ordnance Department stipulated that he receive royalties for his design should it be produced. The Army had a great incentive to choose Garand’s design over Pedersen’s if the former were found suitable for service.
 
PAK 38 could only reliably pen T-34s and KV1s using the very expensive Panzegrenate 40 APCR round, by comparison HEAT is cheap.
German HEAT had a lot of problems, particularly when fired from any sort of weapon that wasn't extremely low velocity such as a Panzerfaust. Also I'm not quite sure it's that cheap, the main reason the Germans didn't deploy crew served recoilless rifles more widely was that they used a lot more propellant than a round fired from a closed breach.

Also the story of the German use of Tungsten (wolfram) for APCR rounds is really interesting. If they had managed the use of Tungsten then it would never have been an issue. German industry insisted that they couldn't reduce their use of Tungsten for machine tooling, or electronics, British and American industry were able to reduce their usage, and they did it just in case supplies were interrupted (which they weren't)

There were plentiful supplies of Tungsten in Spain and Portugal, but Germany fucked that up as well. Firstly by trying to screw the Spanish with shitty trade deals based on an artificially inflated Mark (which is what fucked up the economies of German occupied countries).

They then insisted on trying to ship the tungsten by sea across the Bay of Biscay rather than by rail, nobody is quite sure why they wanted to do this, or why they kept trying to do it after ships were repeatedly sunk by the British.

In the end the British found out, that all they needed to do to cut off supplies of Tungsten to Germany was simply buy from the Spanish first, and actually pay for it.

That is why the Germans didn't have APCR rounds mid way through the war.
 
Germans didn't deploy crew served recoilless rifles more widely was that they used a lot more propellant than a round fired from a closed breach.
It's also because their main recoilless design used Aluminum and production was scrapped in 1941 as it was weapon meant for paratroopers. There was a crew served equivalent to the Panzershreck but since it had a similar warhead it wasn't produced much. Instead the Germans preferred doing things like mounting spigot launchers on outdated AT. Also nobody really employed crew served recoilless during the war. The Americans had very limited numbers of them by 1945 and those early German ones that were used in 1940.
There were plentiful supplies of Tungsten in Spain and Portugal, but Germany fucked that up as well. Firstly by trying to screw the Spanish with shitty trade deals based on an artificially inflated Mark (which is what fucked up the economies of German occupied countries).
The whole matter of German currency and the broader macroeconomics has more to do with Germany being in perpetual ever expanding debt starting before the war, stealing everything that wasn't nailed down in occupied territory and less with the Mark being inflated.
That is why the Germans didn't have APCR rounds mid way through the war.
I doubt that since I have accounts of Romanian tank crew from 1944, just before the King's Coup in which they recall using Panzergrenate 40 to destroy IS-2s. Some of those IS-2s even got paraded in Bucharest.
 
oh my god stop sperging and make a thread for it jfc

Ian did a video with a guy from some shit optics company called gideon optics which plays off like a pseudo ad, "hey I'm honest about how shit our optics are and you can't really tell how good optics are gonna be these days because uuuuh reasons! So check out gideon optics!" also really shitty audio, Ian really upping his audio engineering game.
 
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